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Yesterday's 2014 earnings call with Ruger CEO Mike Fifer was another of those revealing glimpses into why some public company CEOs dread question and answer sessions with stock market analysts. As an observer to the process, the frequent accounting and Wall Street jargon will remind you why you didn't go for an MBA.

But the analysts' sometimes pointed questions make you appreciative of the broad knowledge base any CEO for a public company must have - and call up on demand. It's not enough to know the industry, their company and its products. They have to be able to tactfully deal with analysts whose recommendations can impact their company's access to investment capital.

And it will help you appreciate there's a lot of studying of the industry, consumer trends and other variables that go into the manufacturing process -before the manufacturing process goes into gear.

In a nutshell, Ruger's 2014 performance didn't match 2013.

That's not saying the company didn't make money, just that Ruger is the latest company to affirm what everyone in the industry has known for some time: 2013 was one of those boom years that skews all your projections and forward planning- if you don't put it into historical perspective.

Put into perspective, 2013 isn't a fair comparison to 2014, but 2012 is. And by those standards, Ruger -and the industry- appears to be doing fine.

But that "fine" assessment wasn't without its bumps for Ruger. Fifer candidly stated that some of the shortfalls in sales in Q3 and Q4 '14 were the result in delays in new product introductions.

"So," an analyst asked, "are you looking for more research engineers?" After thinking a few seconds, Fifer responded that while Ruger had "a couple of open slots" he might be looking for Project Managers before engineers.

Reasoning? "Brilliant engineers might not be up on what he needs in his planning," Fifer mused, "he may need springs and discover that the spring supplier needs four months lead time. A Project Manager considers those things throughout the process and prepares accordingly."

The conference call also reminded me that while distributor shows are critical to the manufacturing side of the industry, they're not exactly the direct indicator of what gun makers can expect to sell in 2015. That's because the orders written at distributor shows are from retailers. Those orders don't directly translate to orders to manufacturing because of the distributors' own inventory. A distributor sitting on excess inventory is going to deplete that inventory prior to reordering. For a company like Ruger with broad and deep product lines, that's not such a frightening proposition. For some single-line companies, like small ones that only make modern sporting rifles, that may trigger a lot of incentive programs in order to encourage distributors to keep their stocks higher.

It bears mentioning that Ruger took a big chance several years ago when it fundamentally changed the its products were brought to market. Rather than announce a product with an availability date somewhere in the future, Ruger produced thousands of new products before they announced them. When they were announced, the actual products were available, not only to look at, but to purchase.

As Fifer explained, "that process ties up some of your capital and you have some of it just laying around- that happened to us in Q4 as we were getting ready to announce our new products." That, in turn, impacts your balance sheets- although the forward looking process he's championed has worked well to this point.

Ammunition supplies were also discussed, with Fifer telling listeners that while a major ammo manufacturer (ATK) and powder maker (unnamed) had invested millions in meeting the added demand for rimfire ammunition, there was a wild card in the supply-and-demand equation: the BATFE.

The ATF's decision to go after heretofore legal ball ammunition was characterized as "a bigger issue than sales" -heading the industry toward a "slippery slope" where we didn't need to go.

Analysts also have a way of opening topics that seem pure business, but also have a broader implication. Yesterday, one question concerned Ruger's "mini foundries". With two "minis" up and running, the question was "are you at the point you're considering closing your main foundry in Newport?"

If you're in the Newport business development business, that's a red flag. If you're an analyst, it's just another business process hypothetical. If you're the CEO of the company, it's a question that has more than one answer. "Interesting question," Fifer responded, "we're at the point we're considering what to do- do we expand the load on the mini-foundries and idle the main one, or do we invest in a third mini foundry- it's a question we're still looking at."

One unexpected note in the call, however, concerned Ruger's Red Label shotgun line. Revived in 2013, Fifer told callers that while he wasn't certain if it had officially been announced or not, the company had removed the Red Label from the 2015 catalog and the company website. "We'd hoped we could get it to a favorable point," he said, "but we didn't and we have discontinued the Red Label."
Sounds like Ruger has had plans to leave Newport for some time.

One wonders where those mini-foundries might be.
[quote=Mike Fifer]...Reasoning? "Brilliant engineers might not be up on what he needs in his planning," Fifer mused, "he may need springs and discover that the spring supplier needs four months lead time. A Project Manager considers those things throughout the process and prepares accordingly...."

Ummmm...Mike...I can get you springs in two weeks. Call me grin

Bummer. I was glad to see that the Red Label had returned to production. Maybe they will come out with a Ruger American version? Yuck!!!
The Ruger Red Label was too expensive for most people who wanted a field gun and no one (if they didn't have to) shot them for sporting clays. When I use to shoot sporting clays it was Browning, Krieghoff, Perazzi, Beretta semi's, Caesar Guerini etc. People did not shoot Red Label's for sporting clays because they didn't point, they were unbalanced and kicked like a mule with target loads.
Did he say anything about why they dropped the stainless hawkeyes?
There is a vast difference between an engineering degreed project manager and an engineer. Night and day frankly.
fwiw & imho,
The Ruger Red Label was a junk shotgun from the outset. The ONLY thing it had going for it was that it was Made in USA. That goes a good way with me, however, it does not make up for junk. For the same money you can buy a number of Italian O/Us that don't point like a 2x4 and don't try to jump out of your hands as they free fall open. Good riddance...

Regards, Matt.
Originally Posted by Matt in Virginia
fwiw & imho,
Good riddance...

Regards, Matt.



So, their very existence annoyed you. confused
Originally Posted by pabucktail
Did he say anything about why they dropped the stainless hawkeyes?


I'm guessing they were concerned about Winchester's slumping sales; I can't think of a better way to boost sales for Winchester's stainless rifle line. (Americans, and others of the ilk, are "good enough". However, I don't consider them lifetime investments like the 77/Hawkeye, etc are.)
I've never owned a Red Label, although I've always wanted one. Just never found the right one when I was shopping.

I've owned a ton of the 77 series rifles and consider them a mainstay in my safe.

I've always been a fan of most things Ruger. Dependable and affordable. I'm 43, but consider them THE gun company of my generation. I'm sure others have different opinions, but that's OK. We all have an affinity for certain firearms.
Originally Posted by Klikitarik
Originally Posted by pabucktail
Did he say anything about why they dropped the stainless hawkeyes?


I'm guessing they were concerned about Winchester's slumping sales; I can't think of a better way to boost sales for Winchester's stainless rifle line. (Americans, and others of the ilk, are "good enough". However, I don't consider them lifetime investments like the 77/Hawkeye, etc are.)


Exactly. The Americans and their ilk are like the Kel Tec of rifles. Not likely something the grand kids will want. They've discontinued the last great affordable working rifle of our time.
In so many ways I no longer recognize this country...
I bought a stainless and walnut 12 gauge in 1991. It has performed flawlessly . I no longer hunt upland birds and will break down and part with it soon , but will surely miss it.
I bought a used Red Label back in 1990 have shot it a lot since then. Trouble free? not by a damn sight, back to Ruger 4 times with problems which their service dept took care of. I got it from a guy who needed cash to keep drinking, paid $500 for it and was damn glad I din't pay more for it. If I wanted to buy a used o/u today it would be a Citori or Beretta. Never had any problems with my Citori Lightning 20 ga. I'll take cnc machined steel over investment cast stuff anyday. Never had any problems with my 77's or Ruger pistols though. Magnum Man
Originally Posted by wilkeshunter
Bummer. I was glad to see that the Red Label had returned to production. Maybe they will come out with a Ruger American version? Yuck!!!


Yes, Yuck! but that's a sign of the times..
Originally Posted by luv2safari
Originally Posted by Matt in Virginia
fwiw & imho,
Good riddance...

Regards, Matt.



So, their very existence annoyed you. confused


fwiw,
Owned one for a while... Better Italian & Japanese guns for similar money...

Regards, Matt.
Originally Posted by Matt in Virginia
Originally Posted by luv2safari
Originally Posted by Matt in Virginia
fwiw & imho,
Good riddance...

Regards, Matt.



So, their very existence annoyed you. confused


fwiw,
Owned one for a while... Better Italian & Japanese guns for similar money...

Regards, Matt.


Agreed...
Originally Posted by EdM
There is a vast difference between an engineering degreed project manager and an engineer. Night and day frankly.


yep. BTW it sounded to me like Fifer was recalling a specific incident. smile

All kidding aside, I run into a lot of engineers today who only do what they are told to do, and take no other initiative. And some companies embrace that exact culture. At least until they go belly up. And some engineers design what they think is perfect, then throw it over the wall and let someone else worry about how to make it.

I would expect development engineers to either know a lot about procurement, or be working closely with a procurement guy, so they can quickly identify items that are long lead time, and act accordingly.
The problem with a double barrel shotgun is you simply can't do it on a price point, and do it right. People who want a double for what a decent one offers find a way to fund one, and people who aren't willing to have one done right won't even pony up for one done 1/2 way right.
Guns must be like cars with good and bad examples of the same model. My red label has been 100% dependable.
I bought a 12 gauge Red Label new in the mid '80's. For several years it was the only shotgun I used (except for where I had to use slugs for deer). I used it for turkeys, waterfowl, upland, trap, skeet and sporting clays. I was shooting several thousand rounds per year at the clay target games in those days. It never let me down. I never had one problem with that gun. I still use it a lot. Last fall I got invited to shoot pheasants with some folks I'd recently met at gun dog events and I took the Red Label rather than the 16 gauge Merkel I usually shoot upland with because 1. I didn't want my new friends to think I was one of those guys with the "$5000 gun and the $5 dog; and 2. I can hit better with it than I can with anything else. Fortunately, my dog was outstanding that day and, of the four other people we were with, three of them had Red Labels also. BTW, mine is not one of the newer versions that drop open. My wife's uncle has one of those and I just don't like that aspect of it.
Originally Posted by pabucktail

Not likely something the grand kids will want.


pabucktail The G-kids may actually like(prefer?)them. Tastes, they are a changing. My kids positively drool over the synthetics like T/C Venture, Marlin XL, SPS, Tikka and Rugar American. Sure they still like wood but their young eyes pop at the site of that plastic. My younger son (26) thought the T/C Dimension was really cool looking. I thought it was butt ugly.

Technically these new rifles shoot very well right out of the box.
I always preferred my Red Label for Sporting Clays over my Browning, Win. 101 and 11-87 Sporting Clays model. I have never had a problem with recoil and it's a natural pointer for me. But everyone has their own shooting style and preferences. Mine has good wood and I like the rounded action. Never had a failure in over 10,000 rounds.
Originally Posted by oznog
Guns must be like cars with good and bad examples of the same model. My red label has been 100% dependable.

And women! OOPS, yeah they ain't all the same either.
I have actually taken over 20 deer with mine using improved tubes. It was my only shotgun at that point in my life and it tossed a fairly accurate slugger out to about 75 yards. I was told that it would ruin the gun, but it survived.
Hearing from most of you. I guess I wasted my $250 when I bought the one I have. It was in a red velvet fitted case and in about 95%+ condition.

I am not much of a shot gun guy yet and I have not fired it yet.

Maybe some day soon I will have to take it out and shoot it.
You got a great deal. I would not regret my purchase in the least. Like I said, mine has been great.
Originally Posted by funshooter
Hearing from most of you. I guess I wasted my $250 when I bought the one I have. It was in a red velvet fitted case and in about 95%+ condition.

I am not much of a shot gun guy yet and I have not fired it yet.

Maybe some day soon I will have to take it out and shoot it.



If you can arrangement shipment to to my FFL guy, I will gladly buy it if is is in 95% condition and give you your investment plus shipping. Let me know. Thanks
Originally Posted by oznog
Originally Posted by funshooter
Hearing from most of you. I guess I wasted my $250 when I bought the one I have. It was in a red velvet fitted case and in about 95%+ condition.

I am not much of a shot gun guy yet and I have not fired it yet.

Maybe some day soon I will have to take it out and shoot it.



If you can arrangement shipment to to my FFL guy, I will gladly buy it if is is in 95% condition and give you your investment plus shipping. Let me know. Thanks


When I give my self some time I am going to start playing around with shot guns. It looked at least to me to be a steel at what I paid for it.
Offer to buy is legit. Had a feeling that you would not part with it for what you have in it.
Originally Posted by funshooter
It looked at least to me to be a steel at what I paid for it.


I don't know how much steel is in it.

You got a STEAL of a DEAL!
Had 20ga English stock Red Label for years. No problem at all and my favorite shotgun.
Bill Ruger probably didn't care all that much about what Wall Street thought about his products, otherwise such firearms as the No. 1 and Blackhawk might never have made it into production.

However, short-sighted bean counters are running the show now, not gun guys.

do you know what is happening to the left hand hawkeye line?
Originally Posted by wilkeshunter
Bummer. I was glad to see that the Red Label had returned to production. Maybe they will come out with a Ruger American version? Yuck!!!


They did once. It must not have sold well...
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/10802498#
Originally Posted by pabucktail
Did he say anything about why they dropped the stainless hawkeyes?


My speculation is, as much as people complained about how shiny the MkII stainless was, they didn't care for the Hawkeye version at all. The MkII kept it's appearance quite easily where the Hawkeye appeared to rub off or smear in some fashion. It just wasn't as popular as the MkII and with sales down on the Hawkeye and up on the American, what is one to expect if you are in business to make money.
I have owned a couple of 20 ga Red Labels and gave my last one to my son and he loves it. I still have my Beretta 686 20 ga and 28 ga, Winchester Sporting Clay 12 and my Remington 3200 12 ga which has been one of my favorite since its introduction. I won't miss the Red Label since i wouldn't pay what Ruger wanted for them these days, when you can buy a Beretta O&U for close to that figure
Odd, that, bea, apparently great minds think alike. I still shoot my 3200 4-barrel skeet set. Can't think of a compelling reason to change. Beretta 686/687's are just the cat's meow for me. Every hunting O/U is compared to the Beretta's, and I can't break away from them. Just picked up a 687 Silver Pigeon IV 20 gauge a couple days ago. I practically get a woodie every time I bring that gun to my shoulder. Can't wait for spring, and shoot some skeets with it.
Had a 28 and a 12 , no longer own them but never had an issue with either one and both were purchased used. I had more issues with a NIB Beretta Silver Pigeon and a NIB Browning Citori Lightweight.

I have a 20 gauge Red Label that I purchased new in the spring of 1997 and it seems to work fine for a few rounds of trap and skeet each year as well as for pheasants, partridge, woodcock and doves.

I hunt with a few high volume shotgunners that don't want my plebian Ruger too close to the Merkel's, Perrazzi's and Cesar Gurrini's as if they might catch something from it.

At the end of the day our game bags weigh about the same.

I guess it's whatever floats your boat.

StarchedCover

Originally Posted by StarchedCover
I have a 20 gauge Red Label that I purchased new in the spring of 1997 and it seems to work fine for a few rounds of trap and skeet each year as well as for pheasants, partridge, woodcock and doves.

I hunt with a few high volume shotgunners that don't want my plebian Ruger too close to the Merkel's, Perrazzi's and Cesar Gurrini's as if they might catch something from it.

At the end of the day our game bags weigh about the same.

I guess it's whatever floats your boat.

StarchedCover



I like nice shotguns, and I'd never feel slighted if I had to use a 20ga Red Label, especially the straight grip models. They swing well and look graceful. The market for such a gun is just not strong, and the Europeans had an enormous head start.
I have an old Red Label 20, a gift from a friend, and while I don't shoot it a vast amount (have too many shotguns as well as too many rifles) it's a decent gun that fits me well.

The over-unders that feel like 2x4's to me are 12-gauge Browning Citoris, but that just proves that different shotguns fit different people differently.

Have had some mechanical problems with Euro-shotguns that are part of Beretta and wasn't impressed with customer service.

Then again, I'm kinda weird because in general I actually like German shotguns more than about any other country's, though I also have Italian, Spanish, Turkish and (of course) a number of American guns.
Originally Posted by wilkeshunter
Bummer. I was glad to see that the Red Label had returned to production. Maybe they will come out with a Ruger American version? Yuck!!!


The LGS I frequent sold two new Red Labels and they were both returned to Ruger. Both had ejection issues, like the originals. Word travels fast...
Originally Posted by StarchedCover
I have a 20 gauge Red Label that I purchased new in the spring of 1997 and it seems to work fine for a few rounds of trap and skeet each year as well as for pheasants, partridge, woodcock and doves.

I hunt with a few high volume shotgunners that don't want my plebian Ruger too close to the Merkel's, Perrazzi's and Cesar Gurrini's as if they might catch something from it.

At the end of the day our game bags weigh about the same.

I guess it's whatever floats your boat.

StarchedCover

I had one years ago and shot it well, but I always felt it was a little to the hefty side for a 20 hunting gun. For a target gun, it would have been ok.
I had one of the original blue framed 20 ga Red Labels in the '80s. It kicked so hard with AA skeet loads I got rid of it. To put that in perspective, at the time, I was shooting trap competitively, averaging 5 to 7 thousand 12 gauge shells per year. The Red Labels have too much drop in the comb, they are stocked like iron sighted rifles, and that is why they kick. Winchester 101s are no better, by the way, and for the same reason. I have a 1970s 101 trap model that has been shot less than 200 times, it kicks like a mule. I still have it because you can't get anything for them.
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