What ballistics can you get with a .400 Whelen and is there enough shoulder to headspace on it?

Yes, there is plenty of shoulder on which to headspace. Do a Google search for 400 Whelen and Michael Petrov. He did a great, 2 part article on the myths of the 400 Whelen. You can also search the Campfire for 400 Whelen and should find a few threads on the subject.

Too summarize quickly, the 400 Whelen was always an "improved" case. The good Colonel designed it with a shoulder diameter of .458 as opposed to the 30-06 and 35 Whelen with their .441 shoulder. The 400 Whelen was never a standard 30-06 simply expanded to .411. There are examples of those rifles floating around that were incorrectly chambered by unknowing smiths who did not understand Whelen's original design of the cartridge.

I built one four years ago and love it. I have close to 1500 rounds through it in load development and can tell you it has never failed to fire nor exhibited any of the "headspace issues" often associated with this round.

I get 2150 with a 400 grain bullet, duplicating the 450-400 ballistics. That load is also a hammer on caribou. With 350 grain bullets 2350 fps is pretty easy to get and 300 grain bullets will crowd 2500 fps.

Brass is easy to make from 30-06 or 35 Whelen. My original brass was LC Match fire formed with Cream of Wheat and some Bullseye powder. Quality Cartridge makes properly headstamped brass for it and occasionally you can find Norma 30-06 cylindrical brass. Either only require a trip through a resizing die and trimming. CH4D had excellent dies for around $90, RCBS has them for around $350.

There are surprisingly more bullets available than one would think. Hornady has two .411 300 grain bullets, a spitzer and a flat point, and they have a 400 grain .410 bullet. Hawk produces a 300, 350 and 400 grain, North Fork a 300 and 350, Swift a 350 and 400 grain A frame, Woodleigh a 400 grain RN and FMJ and Barnes, a 300 grain TSX. It is also a very cast friendly round. The correct groove diamter for a 400 Whelen is .411 but .410 bullets will shoot fine.

The 400 Whelen likes mid burn rate powders and one could buy H4895 and never need to try another powder. It has been the hands down single best performing powder in the 400 Whelen. IMR 3031 is all right with 300 grain bullets but 4895 is better suited across the board. Reloader 15, 4064, 4320 and similar burn rate powders have proven to be a bit too slow for optimizing the 400 Whelen.

It's a great round. It's reputation unfortunately suffered at the hands of some scribes who ignorantly passed on myths as truth.

Would be a fine candidate for cast bullet work, Hmmm, not that I need another big bore project but if I come across an -06 at the right price I might just "need" to take the 400 whelen plunge one of these days.

Check out the 411 Hawk also.

The 411 Hawk is an option although I think you find the 400 Whelen chambering reamers easier to find and dies to be cheaper. Realistically, there isn't 5% difference in case capacity between the 400 Whelen, 400 Brown Whelen and 411 Hawk.

Ballistics will be close to the 375 HH with light bullets and the 400-450 with heavier ones.

If done the way it was originally designed, headspace is not an issue, just like anything else.

Z-Hat has the reamers and dies for the Hawk cartridges. I had him do some work for me and it was top notch.

Very interesting. You could have a 450-400 bolt action rifle, for all practical purposes, just by rebarreling a 30-06. That would be legal for all DG in Africa.

Let's face it, the 9.3 X 62 is very, very close to 30-06 case size and does approximate .375 H & H performance in the field. I don't know if that case will get you .450/400 performance. I like the idea.

OH and just to add a little fuel to this fire, you can rebarrel a Rem.760/7600 in a 30-06 size to this or .411 Hawk and have a big bore Amish machine gun. A pump 400-450. My my

I handled a gorgeous 400 Whelen at the Pig hunt in Texas last week. Gunner had it built up on one of the Dumolin(sp?) actions.

Cases were from Quality Cartridge and the cartridge itself was very impressive.

The effect of a 400 grain Woodleigh round nose on caribou is also impressive.

I never understood why this round was not more popular.

We need lots of pictures

Mike

Before the internet all we had was gun rags and books and word of mouth, once a rumor got started it was spread like the gospel.

The reloading issues mentioned above prolly killed it off.

Mike

Because very few chamberings larger than 30 caliber are popular. Once you get past 338 win mag and 375 H&H mag, popularity really declines. The way it's always been, the way it will always be.

HTH did I miss that? Must have been late at night!

The same was said by some of the .35 Whelen. I've got an AI version of it, I can assure you there are no headspacing issues!

The 400 Whelen has been a great round for making hogs bleed all over the timber despite having short trails.

It also lacks the blast and sharper recoil of belted magnums, much like the 35 Whelen, it seems to make up for the speed with the slap of a larger diameter bullet.
9.3 shooters probably notice similar traits.

It's basically a straight wall cartridge running at high pressure with a case 2.5" long and the cartridge 3.33" long. Bullets to SD of 0.34 are readily available.

There's an analogous cartridge--one that fits the same description--from which you can gauge the ballistics: the .458 Win. With the same SD (ie. 500 gn bullets), Hodgdon's data shows you get 2150 fps. The .400, then, should be able to send its 400 gn to the same 2150 fps, matching the old 450/400.

It would be a very versatile cartridge. The 400 gn could reasonably be used on the heaviest game. With Trail Boss and .41 Mag pistol bullets, it's a mild recoiling deer rifle.

Like Docbill, I've thought a Rem 7600 in this would be a pretty spiffy rifle, but I'm not much for recoil any more, so I never got around to trying it.

IIRC PO Ackley was not to high on it in his book. I think I remember him saying there were headspce issues and the cartridge was "disappointing"
That's about as much as I've ever read on it until recently. Guys nowadays seem to like it. If I were younger and needed a project I'd rebarrel one of my gross of 30.06's and give it a try. I rather like the idea of 400 gr at 2150fps. That is some serious fire power.

In my conversations with Michael Petrov about the 400 Whelen, it never came up whether Ackley ever actually did any work with the 400 or whether he was just regurgitating the same myths of other writers. I don't have his book with me up here on the slope and don't recall if he referred to the original 400 or the unimproved 06 version.

Seems like much of the old "lore" was cah cah

Mike

A lot of Ackley's book is theory and supposition, some written by other people, and even some of Ackley's experiments are flawed, for various reasons. But it's been around for over 50 years now and a lot of rifle loonies still think it's all cutting-edge stuff.

Kinda like Jack O'Connor and the M70....

And Elmer Kieth and ....

Thanks for the compliment CT, and yes, was pretty late WN.

Always next year, mine fires the 400 gr Woodleighs to 2255 fps with CFE-223 powder, very accurate and consistent.

Gunner, apologize if you said it before, but what is your build.. Always sort of on the look out for a 30-06 M70 Classic that could be transformed into a 400 Whelen..

What is the generally accepted twist used for the 400's?

Hello Beretz, I bought one of those Dumoulin Mauser actions from SARCO and a set of QD rings from Sunny Hill, found a barrel from Kriegers in-stock pile and strong armed a descent stick of walnut from a friend.

IIRC my barrel is a 14 twist.

Got it, thank you Gunner. Sounds like a great build.

A 400 Whelen sounds like a great project!

It is a great project, also have some woodleigh solids running the same speed [2250fps] as the softs, quite a handy little package, and AFAIK legal for all game up to and including ele.

That level of power from the '06 hull is the coolest part to me. , oh, and as expected, that thing feeds slicker than any I've ran the bolt on.

Here is another great 40 cal for a lever action.
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/3...tandard-calibers/75209-336a-405-jes.html

There is a NIB Classic Stainless in .270 in the classifieds right now...how I wish it was a '06

IIRC the 270 and '06 M-70's share the same barrel contour, snatch that thing up and send it to JES for a rebore, hell, he'll have it back to ya before you get the reloading components rounded up, ordered and delivered.

The 2006 Gun Digest has a fairly extensive article on the .400 Whelen by William V. Woodward. Load data is included.

Furthermore, a nice set of Leupold low dual dovetail bases and rings wrapped around a matte 2.5-8 Leupold would be a hell of a compliment to your newly rebored 9.3x62mm.

Also, my 'smith conducted a test for me with a factory M-70 tupperware stock of mine, he installed pillars and bedded it, that light weight flimsy stock holds a 300 RUM of mine below an inch when I do my part, it will easily handle the repeated recoil of the 9.3x62mm.

You can also paint or have the stock painted up very nice, they have a nice appearance and shoulder well for me.

The last rebore I had done came back with a .338 barrel and .35 Whelen chamber. lmao The guy who did it died, his son took over the business from what I understand. Thankfully, he made good on it.

I just want a Classic Stainless in '06, plain vanilla, to go with my plain vanilla Classic Stainless in .375 Apparently the guys that have them, and it has to easily be the most popular, don't want to sell them.

LOL damn, I misread your post, I was told 9.3 [.366"] is the largest many re-borers will go on the standard factory model 70 Winchester 270/'06 barrel contour.

Glad your project worked out, and a 200 gr Partition at 2700 fps from an '06 can never be a bad idea, I like the old classic stainless rifles too.