Here's an interesting "thought experiment."

Suppose they passed a law stating:

1. It is illegal to use any caliber rifle for big game except 30-06. "Big game" means up to and including Cape Buffalo and Moose.

2. It is illegal to use any bullet except the 180 grain Nosler Partition, the 150 grain Sierra Game King, or any 220 grain round nose. H4350 is the only legal powder if you hand load.

3. It is illegal to shoot said rifle from a bench except for 25 shots per year. No limit on practice from field positions.

4. To buy a hunting license, it is required to dry fire at least one hour per week for 52 weeks.

5. For elephant, it is illegal to use any cartridge except the .375 H&H with 300 grain bullets.

I'm betting that, if such a law were passed, the success on big game would improve and perhaps fewer hunters would be injured by dangerous game.

Sounds OK to me.

Most of the people on here would need deep therapy.

Sounds great if you like stupid laws. Living in a state with plenty, I'll pass on more.

But why an '06?

.308 could do it all with less. Then again, a .260...

;-)

Coming from a state that recently passed legislation that:
1. classified bb guns as firearms
2. considers a crossbow a muzzleloader
3. says you can use a 10 shot clip so long as you only put 7 rounds in it
4. made it illegal to bring your trophy buck from Pennsylvania back to NY for mounting
5. made it illegal to sit in an elevated stand with a young hunter....
I think you must be insane to ask for additional regulations and expect them to be rational. I'm not sure it should even be joked about.

Pass a rule that grumpy old guys with Savage 99 in their handle could only hunt deer with a 5.56 AR-15.

I already meet your criteria.

I don't know that means I can't qualify as a "rifle looney" though. I like single shot 30-06s, wood stock/blued 30-06s, synthetic stocked/stainless 30-06s...

I am definitely not a chambering looney though. I gave a newish 25-06 that I haven't blooded yet. My plans for this year include hunting with my 30-06 again.

That's just UNFAIR!

I Imagine Diane, Nancy, and Harry will get right on that for you.

Yeah, they don't need any more ideas!!

Yep, they's wake up screaming at nite, having nightmares...

You can't cure Loonyism like that, it would just exacerbate the condition, turning semi-sane sufferers into screaming maniacs...

DF

New laws are usually expensive for somebody. I can't afford therapy! Not with all the money I spend on all these different bullets...

Some folks are missing the point I think.

The "law" wasn't the central theme of Indy's post...he only mentioned the law as an imaginary situation under which everyone was compelled to use two cartridges,the 30/06 and 375 with simple optics and forced to practice.Eliminate the useless gack that goes on with magic cartridges and bullets,and imaginary "LR" shots,etc..

Put the emphasis on hunting, and the development of personal skill sets with a rifle that are useful in the field instead of worrying incessantly about theoretical issues and just learn how to shoot straight in the field.

I think his point was that many rifle nuts tend to over think things that really don't matter a hoot in the hunting fields,and lose focus on the important stuff.

That was the central theme; the mention of the law was a red herring.

The "law" is biased and discriminates against anorexic and fat bullets.

Avoid extremes.

Now, Bob.

You know that won't work here on the Fire...

DF

The law is definitely whacked, but can I use a 270 instead of a 30-06?

I think you could get rid of the caliber restrictions and implement the practice regimen and have the same results.



As we like to argue and pick apart the minutia of various cartridges and bullets on the fire. Ultimately, shot placement trumps a lot of discussions.

As do Partitions and 30-06's.

It was an interesting thought experiment for about 2 1/2 seconds until cynicism/skepticism kicked in.. the list of amendments on said law would likely look something like this:
1) Rifle loony lobby would attach wording to allow same, but only with the cartridge of their choosing.
2) Anti's would limit law to spring powered single shot bean bag guns only, with an orange tip and no "thing that goes up" on the stock
3) The critter huggers would want velcro tipped foam bullets, so no animals would be harmed.
4) The tree huggers would throw in with the critter huggers as long as said bullets were non carcinogenic, bio-degradible and/or edible, and preferably made from recycled materials.
5) .gov would undoubtedly put a nice safe speed limit on them of around 140-180 FPS. In lieu of the now unnecessary tax stamp for suppressors, the will allow the new option of foam wrapping and velcro coating a rock of less than 16 oz., as long a you fill out the necessary paperwork, go through the waiting period,have a serial number on said rock, and buy a tax stamp for $500. No collecting surplus rocks from federal land either (they're not in that business anymore you know, and ABSOLUTELY no green tipped rocks)
6) Dry firing is mandatory and must be documented by a fed. certified instructor who will issue a certificate for a "reasonable" fee.

Cynicism toggle off.

I need another cup of coffee.

While I don't disagree with the premise of more practice, and do you really truly need more than one rifle to do the job on the vast majority of big game at least in N.A. (no, not really), any kind of "law" only opens things up to people who know how to manipulate them, and only restricts those who do know squat about the subject.
On to the next topic... If we all had only XXX vehicle to drive, could only use regular or mid grade, and practiced a lot..in our driveway...we'd all be better drivers

Governments picking winners and losers through legislation is most of what has taken us into the dire straights we're in as a nation. Particularly when insider trading is legal for congress, and back-door deals are made daily which end up being simple money transfers from tax-payers to politicians and their friends.

Legislation in the fashion of this thought experiment would be the same, and the deals would be brokered before the law was even on the public's radar, with appropriate stock purchased or dumped, with last-minute amendment due to those not wanting to lose business bribing lawmakers.

Get rid of laws. Let the free market decide what the best products are. You want people to make better choices? Educate; don't legislate. That only empowers corrupt and greedy lawmakers.

Your points are valid but who decides who gets to educate us?

I think then entire meaning of the OPs topic has been misunderstood.

Lots of crazy uncles on the fire.

LOL

Most of you have missed the point.

Obviously no government should pass such laws.

But the point is that most hunters look for some magic cartridge, not really better than any other cartridge, shoot endlessly off the bench trying to shoot meaningless small groups, don't know how to shoot off their hind legs like a man, and would be far better off learning to be a GOOD SHOT than endlessly discussing and worrying about cartridge and group minutiae.

I believe Mule Deer has discussed this phenomenon. People have far less time to spend afield and far fewer places to be afield so must drive much longer distances to get there. Many people don't even have a good place to shoot their rifles closer than an hour or two hours away. So instead of actually hunting or scouting or doing target practice they concentrate on this minutiae.



If someone really wants to drive people batsh*t crazy, log on to a golf forum and propose this same idea except that golfers are limited to two woods, three irons and one putter. And no range finders or golf carts, they have to carry their own bags.

I wouldn't recommend it since even if you posted it with a dozen smiley faces you'd still get very earnest death threats. Talk about a group of people who want to buy skill out of a box...

Wouldn't Reverse Loonyism also include 4x scopes (or factory issued iron sights)? Handloading would be out of the picture, as would bullet selection, unless you could do so by picking the ammo brand. Sounds like my father's rifle...30-06 with a 4x Weaver, shooting factory 180 gr soft points, beat to hell from using it as a crutch and falling on it. Boring, but it usually brought meat home.

I don't think handloading is necessarily part of loonyism--except the kind Jim in Idaho described, where loonies who almost never shoot except off a bench (and even then maybe never beyond 100 yards) strive for the tiniest groups, even though such groups are meaningless in the vast majority of hunting.

I've known guys who handload and shoot a lot, but don't buy and sell and "build" rifles constantly, hoping one will change their life. Instead these guys handload because they shoot a lot, and because they shoot a lot they shoot well, even off their hind legs "like a man." Hell, I even known one woman, very well, who shoots off her hind legs very well, unlike most men. :-)

Didn't miss the point. The point wasn't about the law part of the post, that was a theoretical to level the playing field. I just found that portion of it humorous at the time.
The point was that more practice and familiarity with your firearm = better success. Nothing loony there. That has and always will be the case. Likely every living, breathing creature on the North American continent has been dispatched with an '06. Before that, it would be a safe bet that the same has been done with the 30-30, 22 LR, and if you were patient enough to research it, dozens of other cartridges as well. 8000 years before that, every creature on the continent was dispatched with a pointy rock lashed to a stick. Even then, some used different purpose shaped rocks, shorter and longer sticks, bows, spears, atlatls, etc. So the point really is that whatever shape or form the tool of choice is, it is most effective in the hands of one who practices with it, is familiar with it's abilities and limitations, is cognizant of the quarry and environmental variables involved. Loonyism is a lot more deeply ingrained than the 30-06, and the last generation or two, as is the over-arching point about practice and familiarity with your tool of choice.

I'm betting that a lot of lawmakers would get to know a '06 round up close personal.
Good way to start a rebellion.

And here we go again....

I know this is a thought experiment, but if it were seriously posited, then I would make it a point to use a 30.06 to eliminate a varmint of the first order.
Or maybe I'd just use an unapproved device to accomplish the same task.
Brain phardts are all right from time to time, but this one was a skunker.

I forgot to add this...

Why? Jack O'Connor's wife did just fine with the '06.

You're right. It should have been any cartridge larger than the .375. I have personally seen entire elephants missed with .458 and .500 caliber rifles, probably due to flinch.

Examples of one are so illuminating. Better (but a cliche) would have been to cite the hundreds of elephants Bell killed with rifles chambered for cartridges less powerful than the .30-06.

This has been a very interesting thread, mostly due to the reactions of several posters.

Campfire: the Loonyism Strikes Back

And I got a free front row seat!

30-06??? Why when in North America you can kill any game with a 22 hornet.

Fact is a common 243 will do for what 95% of what hunters do - yet most feel it's not ego satisfying to use it and get them for women and children. Funny how it kills just fine for them

Truth is you don't need a lot of rifles to hunt with, but you DO need a lot of rifles to play with.

Nailed it!

So well put. Need we say more??

Yup .... Our fathers had one rifle for everything, more of a tool than anything. Mine had a Lee Enfield Jungle Carbine. I don't think he fired more than 2 boxes of shell in that thing all the time I knew him.

We don't have guns, we have toys that we like to dress up in different stock and scopes and show them off on the interweb. Get bored, sell them off and start all over again with the latest fad bbl maker/scope/stock/chambering.

Gold, Bob, 24 karat gold.

Accepting as fact that the Rem M700 action is the worst of all!!


That'll leave plenty for me to buy up cheaply!!

John,

How might one learn to shoot off his front legs? You know, just in case his hind legs are occupied?

What state is this?

ExtremeHunter16,

Probably by pulling the trigger with whichever toe works best. This technique would no doubt be most effective when shooting big game through the front shoulders.

Not every gun owner hunts.

If I could find a balance between a an antelope rifle for relatively long range and work in the timber for elk I would have one rifle for me and one for the wife. But as it stands I have about 5 in the safe for these two purposes.

Such are the perils of the age of specialization we live in...

Nimrods of another era grabbed a 270. 30/06,7 mag or 300 mag and made it work.....toss in elk and sheep and mule deer in open country.And plains game in Africa,and Asian mountain game as well. All with one rifle.

We can do it if we read less, shoot and hunt more.

Ha, there is the root of the problem. I have a big long heavy .260 and a nice light .243 that are a excellent pair on the prairie, antelope and such. I have a Tikka t3 .300 and a Ruger 77(7x57) for deer and elk in mountains( hunt at same time). So in reality for me and the wife we each have one gun to hunt with, they just happen to be different guns depending on whether I drive East of the house ( prairie) or West( mountains) The k98 in 8x57 is just sort of a back up. although I have shot a few deer with it.
If I was smart I would just by a pair of tikkas in .260 or 6.5x55 and we could be happy, one would have to be a compact because the wife is barely five feet tall.