I've been shooting a bunch of 223 lately using supposedly once fired R-P. If I go straight to FL sizing it, there's very little neck tension. Pulling the expander out gives good neck tension but split necks after a few firings.

Using the annealing method JB described with a candle, the neck tension goes up to 0.002" and I haven't seen any split necks yet. I know it works, and it takes a lot of myth and mystery out of annealing.

I know this topic comes up now and then, but I wanted to thank JB for this very useful tip. And thanks to his metallurgist buddy who came up with it.

Jason

Thanks--and if I run into Fred Barker I'll thank him too.

Best tip I've received on reloading in 20 years. I like to form and hunt w/the same 40 rounds as long as I can. Have two rifles I've been loading w/the same 40 cases for over 10 years now. W/o the annealing it never would have been possible. powdr

Any tricks, or just using a candle?

Soak a paper or cloth towel in water. Light a candle and hold a case halfway up the body, with your fingertips. Hold the neck of the case in the tip of the candle-flame, turning it back and forth, until the case becomes too hot to hold. Drop the case on the wet towel and wipe the soot from the candle flame off the neck. Annealing done.

Every time I see this explanation I am reminded of the comment my wife made a few years ago. She was passing thru the "reloading room" and seeing me holding a piece of brass over a candle she said: are you sure you should be doing that in the house?
She understands the process now.

Have annealed by candle for many years on small cases. Works fine.

Does anyone have a favorite ointment for their fingers?

Hoppe's #9.

Does this simple method work for larger cases also (300 wsm)?

Yeah. Have used it on .375 H&H.

Interesting info, one of the great things about this site.

On a side note my wife caught me trying the exact same thing but on our gas stove. She looked at me as if I had completely lost my mind, after explaining what I was trying to do and reassuring her that it wasn't using a loaded round and the house wouldn't blow up she felt more at ease. She never thought she was signing up for such weirdness when we got married but at the same time she does equally strange girl things too......

I do that for the first case and count the number of seconds, by the clock, it takes for the case to be too hot to hold.

I use a glove for the rest of the cases.

That's a good idea. Have used a torch like this and burnt my fingers..... 100 times

Here's a question about the candle technique that arises from my ignorance of the dynamics of heat transfer:

With the candle technique, will the temperature obtained on the neck of long cases be the same as that on short cases?

For example, at the point when the middle of the case reaches the "drop it now" temperature, will the neck of a 375 H&H case be hotter than the neck of a 218 Bee case? If so, the the technique may require modifications specific to case length and perhaps to brass wall thickness?

--Bob

Hold the first two or three cases halfway up until they are too hot to hold - "too hot" is not a test of pain tolerance. Count how many seconds it takes until the cases reach the "too hot" point, it should be about the same time within one second.

Thereafter, hold the rest of the cases down by the head and hold the neck in the flame for the same number of seconds.

BTDT, learned the hard way myself.

+1 on the good advice. I had never annealed until early this year. Decided to try it because brass was getting so hard to find and wanted to get more loadings out of the brass on hand.

It is easy; the timing technique explained by Jim in Idaho is what I do. Have done 223, 7X57, 06 sized and belted magnum cases. The number of seconds in the flame differs by the case size but once learned using Jim's explanation you can move right along.

Bob,

When Fred worked out the method, one of the reasons for using a candle is that while the flame temperature is sufficient for annealing brass, it isn't so hot that a little extra time will start to melt the zinc, the flaw in heating brass until it glows.

Fred tested the technique with heat-sensitive paint (as I recall Tempilac) and found it was close enough for a wide variety of case.

There are many misconceptions about brass annealing. First, the hot brass doesn't need to be quenched in water, unlike most other metals. Instead air-cooling works fine. Second, brass will anneal at widely varying temperatures, but the amount of time required also varies considerably. At 600 degrees annealing takes an hour, obviously too long for our purposes, but at close to 800 degrees the zinc melts, also not good. Around 725-750 degrees anneals quickly without melting the zinc, which is the level Fred's method reaches.

I've suggested to other people with the same question to buy some Tempilac of the correct temperature range and do some experimenting themselves, but so far I haven't heard back from any of them.

Jim,

That's pretty much the method I use, except I keep my fingers in the middle of the cases and drop them one count before they usually get too hot to hold. For example, if a 10-count starts to burn, I drop the case at 9. Seems to work too.

Coming into this discussion late but do you do the initial anneal after a few firings, and any more annealing required after the initial annealing? Might try this to help increase the lifespan of brass given the prices we are paying and how hard it is to find in many cartridges now.

Perhaps I could learn this technique someplace other than in my reloading area. That's where there's a strict "NO OPEN FLAME" rule in place for obvious reasons.

I have a wick-style alcohol burner. Would an alcohol flame work as well as a candle or is there a temperature difference in an alcohol flame that would make it work not as well? Thanks

Not a Gun Writer., but a hobbyist. I've found the method of placing a drill motor in a vice with a 3/8ths socket (for 223 Rem) rotate slowly while holding a propane torch to the neck area. I have watched the automated machines do what I do manually. For 223 takes about 6 sec. and '06 necks about 8 sec. So my normal speed of counting I count to 9 for the small ones and 13 for the big ones this equals 6 and 8 sec. I pick (bare fingers)the base of the cartridge out of the socket and roll on a wet cloth that's on a cookie sheet. The insides aren't wet so they can be loaded the same day as annealing with out any other procedures. The brass is soft down to about half the cartridge length, when tested with a pair of pliers, the bottom half is hard.
Using this method my ES has come down to the single digit range and brass life is long. And, I rarely toast my fingers.

An answer to your question will depend on the type of alcohol, and the percentage of water in the alcohol. I recall (vaguely and perhaps incorrectly) from chem class that flame temperature increases from methanol to ethanol to propanol. I also recall that 70% alcohol will burn with a lower temperature than 95% or 100% alcohol.

From the G. Gordon Liddy era, I remember that the flame temperature of a candle is about 1000°C. Google finds alcohol flame temperatures to be about 1700-1900°C (dpending on type and purity).

In annealing a brass case, the hotter alcohol flame may or may not heat the neck too much before the middle of the case becomes too hot to hold with bare fingertips. The candle flame temperature is such that heat is transmitted down the length of the case before the neck is heat damaged.

--Bob

I try to anneal after every fourth loading and I frequently discard my cases after the 12th loading, so most lots get annealed twice. Someone here on the 'fire recommended this frequency and it seems to work well for me.

Fred Barker (shooter, and professional metallurgist) wrote an article on cartridge case metallurgy, and the candle method of annealing, which was published in the July 1996 issue of Precision Shooting magazine. His recommended methods of annealing were:
1) The Lead Pot method
and
2) The Candle Flame method - with a note that 'any other relatively cool yellow flame, such as that from a kerosene-burning wick light' would also do the job.

Barker did not state what the typical temperature of a candle flame is. He noted that in his tests it would melt a sliver of wheel weight metal in about 8 to 10 seconds, so it must be well over 700 degrees F.

If the figures quoted by 'Bullshooter' are correct (I'm not disputing them) then the flame from an alcohol burner MAY be too hot for safety. Probably make less mess than a sooty candle or kerosene wick flame, though ....

I'm new to this and trying to learn. Have you guys seen certain brands of brass that seem to need the process sooner? We all have our preferred brass for reloading. Just wondering about the " I don't use the x,y,z brand because I have to anneal after 3rd firing etc".

Cartridge case annealing may result in unsafe cases if the case head is heated sufficiently to become soft. (Thus the precaution with some procedures of standing cases head down in a pan of water.)

The safety of the annealing process using a candle or other heat source is achieved principally by holding the case amidships with fingertips, and also by then promptly cooling the case with water when it's become too hot to hold without pain. Barker suggests the temperature at which pain occurs is about 150°F, and that the middle of the case reaches this temperature when the case neck reaches about 700°F in a candle flame.

The reason for the prompt cooling with wet towel or pan of water is not provided in Barker's article, as nearly as I can discover from about three read-throughs. I presume that prompt water cooling prevents the case head from becoming too hot. If the case were allowed to air cool, heat in the neck area might be conducted down the length of the case and soften the case head.

Barker cited with approval the case annealing technique described by William Dresser in The American Rifleman (Sept 1962, p.42). Dresser using a propane torch to heat the case neck, holding the case with his fingertips. When a Tempilstik indicating crayon showed the neck had reached 700°F, the case was dropped immediately into a bucket of water.

A propane torch has a much hotter flame than a candle, and in that respect the Dresser method might resemble the use of an alcohol lamp. However, the important difference between the torch and candle methods is that neck temperature was evaluated directly with the torch. Neck temperature is judged indirectly with the candle technique using fingertips as heat sensors. Use of an alcohol lamp with crayon or lacquer indicator should be a safe and workable method.

--Bob

I've discussed the method with Fred, and the reason for the wet towel wipe-down is both to cool the case, to prevent heat reaching the head, and to get rid of the soot from the candle flame while it's still soft and easily wiped off.

Tell her it's an ancient ritual going all the way back to the invention of the brass cartridge, much like burning a picture of a Saint in your hands you are now officially a made Looney!!


Mike

Glad I read this thread. Will definitely make use of the candle method.

And this made me chuckle.


Classic.