I reload and shoot and hunt with Speer handgun bullets in my Ruger 41 and 44 hunters. Accuracy and performance seems to be very good. But......

How come no love for Speer Rilfe bullets. Rarely mentioned here on the Fire and never see them at my LGS. Would seem that Barnes (TTSX), Nosler and Hornady are about IT!!

The TTSX-them things will penetrate just about anything, from any angle. Recovered one from a huge hog and one from a buffalo. I've used them on three international trips with great success. Don't use Nosler anything(bullets). Don't know why, just don't. Hornady, well I grew up with Hornady (really, Joyce Hornady taught me how to reload) and have used them successfully for 55 years and have never been disappointed.

Sierra groups are usually pretty good, but performance lacks (sucks).

Speer, well they would seem to be in last place and loosing ground.

They don't advertise much that's for sure. Round nose bullets are a dying breed in the market place but their .308 150 RN is one of the great deer bullets.

I like the 87 grain HotCore and TNT .257" bullets.

I also like the 180 and 220 grain .358" FPs.

The 35 cal 180 grain hotcor is a great bullet

I just put a .30-06 together, an older Savage 110 action, ER Shaw barrel, some off-brand composite stock, and worked on the trigger until it didn't take 2 men and 4 boys to get it to break.

WW case, CCI 200 primer, Speer Hot-cor 150 grain flat-base .012" form the lands, and a Garand-safe charge of AA2495. 2735 fps and under MOA.

You must shoot a 250 Savage.

I've never had a bad experience with a Speer bullet and have used them for what I would estimate to be around 70% of all my big game hunting.

Mo Ed -

I know I'm in a/the minority around here but I don't hunt deer with Speer bullets, even Hot Cors.

I hunt and prefer hi vel cartridges such as 6mm Rem, 270 Win, 7 RM, 300 Win Mag, etc. that said I push bullets relatively fast.

We have discussed this subject a few times in the past 4-5 yrs. Several report the Speer rifle bullets perform well at medium or low velocity.

So and on par with reports, I have had every Speer bullet to separate or 'splode'
on White tail deer. That's why, and it's true from MY experience.

Others MMV (mileage may vary)

They stopped making bullets I like to use like the 6.5mm 140 gr G.S. and 30 cal 180 gr Mag Tip, changed the Grand Slam's to be not as tough as the dual core bullet. The Deep Shock and Deep Curl becoming available and then disappearing was really annoying too. I would be using them more but they change or drop the ones I like.

I do like and still use the .311 180 gr RN and 358 250 gr spitzer and will look at trying some 150 gr Hot Cors in the 270 Win and the soon to be arriving 308 Norma Mag will likely see some Hot Cor's too. Really miss the 180 gr Mag tip though.....

I use them. I like them.

The 165g Hot Cor in the 308 has been great on pigs. I love the 150g Hot Cor in my 270 Win. Used the 130 with good results too.

For some reason though - in this country at least - they've got really pricey. They used to be the cheapest but now they're about 30% more expensive than the equivalent Hornady products.

*I doubt Speer is slowing down at all... here in Oregon, at least the Southern part, they can readily found... a good cross section of their product line...

I use a lot of Speer's bullets, for varminting and hunting...

the varmint ones I tend to order on line from Powder Valley...

Speer is owned by ATK, which also makes Federal and they also make pretty much most of the 17 HMR rimfire rounds and a bunch of other rimfire rounds...

bet more of their production goes into factory ammo etc...

Like everyone else, I am sure they are running at max capacity, but just don't need to advertise any more... and they know that the market is eventually going to slow down... so don't want to add...

Hornady seems to be the most responsive and orientated to the handloading crowd...

no major company in the bullet biz is losing money these days...
or in need of finding new markets...

I think it's the color of the box.

I would be the first to say that most folks do not think real logically. Oh sure, they hide it behind a veneer of what passes for rational thinking, but underneath is pretty much an instinct-driven animal. I would be the first to admit I am no better.

Unless you are looking for bananas, yellow is not a good color. Red, on the other hand, has been shown to evoke hunger, anger, aggression, and our animal brains have been finely tuned to pick up red in our environment. Hornady makes their boxes red, and they have done a pretty good job of filling the shelves with that color for decades. You walk into a store, you look around, you see those red boxes first.

Speer has a passive yellow color. You have to know what you're looking for. If you want Speer bullets, you got to go to the red boxes and then hang a left. Hornady owns whatever space it inhabits, at least in every store I go.

A weekend or so ago, I took Angus out driving. He got his temps, and needs some time behind the wheel. I decided to have him drive up north to a sporting goods store I had not visited in almost a decade. It was way back on a residential street. You'd miss it if you did not know it was there. We walked in. I had not seen this place since the Bush Administration.

My first reaction to myself? " Oh!, they've moved the Hornady bullets out into the middle of the room! They used to be over by the cash register."

Just for kicks, I had business down in my reloading room this morning. I went down. I've got probably 70% of my bullet shelf space filled with red boxes. The rest is white (generic), or clear plastic bags, a bit of black and gold, some blue (Midway generic). . . and oh! There the are! A few yellow boxes. I knew they were there somewhere.

color of box, WTF - your kidding, right?

I used Speer bullets a lot. I started out using Speer and Sierra 75 grain bullets in my 6mm in the 60's - both shot around 1/4" at 100 yards.
When I shot an antelope (pronghorn)six times (100 grain Hotcor 6mm in 6 mm Remington)in the lungs before it dropped and each of the bullets exited at apparently the same diameter as the entrance I stop using Speer on game animals. Speer bullets always shot accurately, but I don't trust them on game. Now I've read testimony in this forum that the Speer 35 caliber bullets expand well on Elk, so I may try them. I'm sorry though, yellow boxes work for me as well as red. I don't like green for game animals though - and that has more to do with explosive Sierra bullets than the color green.

When I was growing up Speer was about the only bullet to be found around here. I've used them to kill a buttload of deer. I hate that the Mag Tips are gone the 150 was my main hunting bullet in the 308 and I loved the 160 in the 7x57.

I've always gotten good accuracy from Speer and they always kill well for me.

Now it all makes sense.

IMO Shaman is being T N C.

I don't think I've seen such a ridiculous "Troll Post" in all my years of reading the gun forums.
But it makes perfect sense because no one is paying attention to those Berger Bullets in the banana boxes either.

When I started handloading, Speer were among the hardest bullet of the big 4 of the time. From about late 70's to early 90's, they softened up, particularly the boat tails but remained good killers on deer sized game as long as the bullets were directed into the chest cavity.

The market has toughened whereby less than perfect placement and full/angling penetration is more commonly spoken of so the CnC bullets have lost favor to the homogenous and expansion restricted designs.

It doesn't change the value of the bullet if you hunt and place your shots well but time and opportunity is overshadowing good intent and hunting prowess.

You will notice the absence of stalking and observing game and waiting for the right shot on these forums but thats ok when the topic is simply the bullet and how it performs.
John

The Deep Curl bullets were quickly becoming my favorite whitetail bullet. I was impressed with their performance. I stocked up on a few, but not enough.

It's almost as if they were trying to protect the Fusion line of ammo by not selling the Deep Curls in the preferred weight for the cartridge.

Had they offered them in different bullet weights from the beginning, I'm sure sales would have flourished. To me, that was a major marketing snafu.

I recently had a conversation with the CEO (Vista, now split from ATK) at a manufacturers summit. I asked him the question specifically about components. His reply was that all efforts were in ammo at this moment. I got the impression they didn't have handloading components high on their priority list.

As was their Deep Shok teaser. And then they turned the Grand Slam into a Mag-Tip, but kept the price the same. They were going to discontinue at least certain Hot-Cors with the introduction of Deep Curls. With the Deep Curl's demise, are they manufacturing the Hot-Cors again? From a reloader's viewpoint, it's hard to get excited about a company's bullets when you don't know what next year will bring.

I've killed dozens of big game animals with Hot-Cors from 6mm to .338, and sent a bunch of small varmints skyward with TNT's.

But in general Speer hasn't kept up with the modern handloading market, and in some ways has gone backwards:

While Hot-Cors are adequately accurate, they've never been known for super-accuracy like some other big game bullets. Plus, the ballistic coefficients don't compete with some other bullets. This doesn't really mean anything in normal hunting, but somehow even normal hunters have become BC obsessed these days.

As somebody already mentioned, the Grand Slams have been turned into what are essentially heavy-jacketed Hot-Cors with an even worse BC. They don't work as well as the older GS's when they hit stuff, and they don't fly very flat. Essentially they're expensive Mag-Tips.

The Speer boattails (which do have somewhat higher BC's) AREN'T Hot-Cors. Instead they're formed like most other cup-and-core bullets, by swaging a cold core inside a jacket, and the core is pretty soft. Consequently they don't hold up on game like the Hot-Cors, though they can be very accurate. But they also don't have the trendy plastic tips beloved by hunters who tend to shoot at longer ranges.

Speer's marketing of DeepCurl bullets was inept, and then the bullets were dropped entirely, while some of the long-selling Hot-Cors were dropped.

None of their varmint bullets have plastic tips, which DO make a difference in both violent expansion and downrange performance in smaller bullets. Their really explosive varmint bullet, the TNT, has such a large hollow-point that it slows down even quicker than soft-points, and far quicker than plastic-tips, so drifts in the wind more. It is "affordable," but plastic-tips have become more affordable in recent years.

Yeah, Speer bullets work, but big game hunters who just want a reliable cup-and-core bullet often choose a Hornady Interlock instead. Hunters who want something that flies flatter and drifts less in the wind buy some sort of plastic-tip, whether for varmints or big game. Hunters who want a premium bullet can't find a real one in Speer's line.

It ain't a mystery.

Because when you compare them to everything else, they suck.



Dave

I shoot Speers in two of my rifles, a Savage 99 in 300 Savage because the load I got from Gunner shoots lights out AND he gave me about 800 bullets, the other is a Marlin Carbine 336RC in 32 Special for the same reason. These two rifles will only be used to shoot deer and hogs and so far no issues. Other than that, they do suck.

I used the 200 grain .30 caliber Speer spitzer loaded to around 2950 in a .300 Win Mag on several elk. They worked just fine. But there are certainly better bullets out there (I've since gone to the NP).

Been shooting 87 gr hot cores in 250 savage for a long time. I bought a bunch in case they stop making them

Of the speer line the only bullets I have used have been the hotcor in 25cal 120 gr 270 130 gr and in 30 the 150 and 165 gr. I have only recovered one a 150 gr hotcore from my 3006. It weighed 75 gr or 50%, whitetail buck at 125 yards. The rest have. gone clear thru and I found them to be one inch or less at 100 yards..I like them and think they are a very good bullet, but their marketing does suck. They are extremely difficult to find in Canada, and if Speer are trying to kill their handloading supply business they are doing a good job.

Speer Hot Core 160 gr is the only bullet i use in my 280 Ack and i just loaded 50 rounds yesterday for my 6mm Rem with the Speer 90 gr Deep Shock for this coming deer season.

Master Mule Deer summed it up...ditto from me.

Also, I have a harder time finding the ones that shot well for me. They're just not on the shelf consistently around here. My favorite Hornadys are always easier to find.

John,

Bravo!!!!

Your post is the sort of unequivocal analysis that one would expect from a well informed professional.

There are only 4 Speer bullets that I keep on-hand, the 87 grain .257" HotCore and TNT to shoot in 1-14" ROT 250-3000s and the 180 and 220 grain .358" FPs that I use in the 356. Those are, for me, the best available bullets for those specific applications that I found.

Which company are you going to eviscerate next?

I'm betting Remington...

I'm glad y'all never go swimmin' in the ocean. A shark could come up and not only pull your leg, but bite it clean off, and y'all would bleed out before you knew.

I say that, but at the same time there is probably some truth to it-- not at our level of course (the shaman smirks). However, if you have a beginner going to his LGS, his eyes are going to catch the red box first. That is a huge advantage. Those relationships between customer and brand form early and they can persist for generations. Take that from a guy who has been partying with Proctor & Gamble folks his whole life.

By the way, if you think red boxes are a stretch, look at P&G. They revolutionized the laundry detergent world by putting blue speckles in their Oxydal about 50 years ago. It was just food coloring, but the housewives went nuts over "Power Crystals." You and I can think that's absurd, but then you start looking at our own brand loyalties, and you see the same dynamics.

Even more to the point as to why there is less love for Speer, is the distribution aspect. Those red Hornady boxes generally dominate the shelves. There is a bigger selection, and ( I think most importantly) a stable selection of Hornady offerings than any other. At least that is how I've seen it here in Cincinnati over the past (takes off his socks) thirty-some years. If I go to the store and look for a new bullet for a new load, I usually can find something in a red box. There is usually more than one box too. When I go back in a few months to replenish, those same bullets are there.

I'll pull your leg once more and then get on with my afternoon. I had been loading using my buddy's press here and there, but did not load on my own until 2000. At that time I got a RCBS kit, as recommended by some of y'all over at shooters.com. It came with a Speer manual. I went to my LGS with my manual, with Post-its marking the loads I wanted to try. The old guy behind the reloading counter saw what I was doing and asked if he could help. There I was, all ready to buy Speer so it would match the loads in the manual, and 3 for 3 they were out and I ended up walking out with red boxes. To this day, I've never tried to buy Speer equivalents for those loads.

Hornady's "Zombie" bullets in the bright green boxes are really eye-catching.

260RemGuy,

I also have some Speer bullets around for specific purposes, including the ones you mentioned. I like the way the flat-nose .35's work on game in moderate-velocity cartridges, and in fact the 180 is what my wife uses in her older German combination gun, which supposedly has a 9.3x72R rifle barrel, but is really a .35.

I also like the 200 Speer Hot-Core .338 spitzer at around 2650 fps. Have used it both in the .338 Federal and with reduced loads in the .338 Winchester Magnum. It's a little soft at full-house .338 Magnum velocities, but works great when slowed down a little.

The 30-grain Speer "Green" TNT's also work very well in the .22 Hornet where a non-toxic bullet's required.

Exactly, they need to get their $hit together.

I know the problem with the DeepShock was they'd hoped for a lower-cost bullet that worked like a premium. But then it turned out to be more expensive to produce than they anticipated.

I also noticed that by the time DeepCurls appeared on store shelves they were also considerably more expensive than the Hot-Cores they were supposed to replace.

I don`t know if they make Gold Dot Pistol and Revolver bullets anymore,but I have a good supply and next to a WFN hard cast in Revolvers is the next best thing.

Used them for years as they were carried by the LGS and were a bit cheaper than everything else. Seems they are not as well priced and frankly there are more Hornady,s around. The speer where always fine for me.

Good bullets....clueless management.

I could never get Speers to shoot as well as Hornady's or Sierra's, so I quit buying their rifle bullets, and while I got some superb accuracy out of their old half-jacket pistol bullets, the knuckleheads quit making those (specifically, the .357 146HP and the 200 and 220 gr. .41 Magnum bullets).

I gave up on them when they gave up on those bullets. I killed my first deer with a 105spitzer out of a .243, but that was a long time ago, and I gotta go with what works, and more importantly, what I can FIND. If I can't find them, I surely can't buy them.

How does a plastic tip change bullet performance?

I had started to post a reply earlier, but figured every point I had planned to make someone else could probably do a better job at it. Mule Deer stepped up to the plate and made most of them in a more clear and concise manner than I could have done.

But there was still something that I believe is true that I'd like to state. While they have had some definite missteps over the years I think a lot of it boils down to one thing: They do not find the handloading market a priority for their business. And I think the attitude has become mutual. Handloaders don't find supporting their handloading business a priority.

Many posts here and at others sites claim that after speaking with a Speer/ATK rep. they have been told that they are focusing their resources on loaded ammunition. This shows in their distribution channels. Speer bullets get noticeably smaller amounts of shelf space around here, and the space they do have rarely gets restocked. You can't support a company with your business if they don't supply the product. You find substitutes and move on...

I'm sure they make more money in loaded ammunition than in selling components. So it is at least making them more money in the short term. Is it an attitude that could come back to bite them in the longer term? Who knows?

My Son had great success with 7mm 175 grain Mag-Tips that I loaded for him with a truck load of deer and two Elk.
I'm not sure why I got away from them, but it may have been my love of Noslers.
I can't swear that the Noslers actually perform better.

One of the best I have used for .357 Magnum heavy's, is Speer's 170 Gr Uni-cor Soft Point (not hollow point). Very tough bullet that's will expand just a little and keep on plowing through.

SuperCub,

A plastic tip does two things: increase ballistic coefficient, which means higher retained velocity and energy downrange, and promote expansion, because underneath the plastic tip is a HUGE hollow-point.

I would never have known this if it hadn't been pointed out to me by Shrapnel.

Other missteps that I didn't see mentioned is their Trophy Bonded Bear Claw lines. I would have loaded these as premium rounds when I first started handloading if they were available as components for a reasonable price. I found a single local store that carried the original TBBC as components. They were sold in 25 count boxes for $50! Then they were pulled from the market and no longer offered as components. Later, they introduced the Tipped Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and it was said they planned to offer them as components. But, of course, they never did.

Throw in the Deep Shok intro/disappearance, Grand Slam changes, dropping some of the popular Mag Tip/GDHP lines, the Deep Curl drama... it's just easier to find a bullet supplier who has their act together.

That being said, I had found a very good load with the 140g 6.5mm HotCor and bought 4 boxes (all that was left at Graf & Sons) when they announced they were dropping them in favor of the then upcoming Deep Curl...

As mentioned in this thread, the .257 87 grain Hot-Cor is a good bullet in the 250-3000 and has always been reliable on Whitetails.

For a little fun at the gun club I load the Speer 130 gr Hot-Cor in a 7x57mm and show the chronograph results to the boys shooting their .270 Win's. That Mauser is right on their arse.

Plus that bullet took my first three pronghorns.

My 260 loves the Speer 120. Very accurate and it has killed everything I have run one into. I bought a bunch of the Hot Cores when they were being "discontinued".

The .224 52 grain HP is pure evil on 'yotes.

The shame of their demise (or decline) is that they remove themselves as a viable competitor. This means we end up paying more for components.

This is exacerbated in my country, as this market is nowhere near as competitive as in the USA.

If Speer becomes irrelevant, we are down to the three big bullet companies mostly for our supplies ie Hdy, Nos and Sierra. Yes we can get Bergers, Barnes, Lapua and a handful of others but they are pricey and I regard those as more specialty products.

Speer used to be a real viable alternative but now their range is so narrow and their price so high, I'll only buy them at clearout special prices.

I have had good performance on deer with the Speer 130 Hot Core in the 7x57,the 180 fp in the .35 Rem.,and the 180 Magtip in the .300 savage.One thing that I dont understand is why the 250 HC in .35 cal. is considered a good bullet in the Whelen,while some here claim that the 270 gr. HC in the 9.3x62 is too soft for our larger game.

PS I actually like the Speer boat tail SPs. In many cases I quite like fairly soft bullets. Not mushy, but soft enough to create a large wide wound channel.

I also almost exclusively use bullets fairly heavy for calibre when using soft BTSPs.

Believe it or not I've even had excellent success on hundreds of head of game using the SST keeping impact speeds generally under 2800fps or so.

Ed

Mostly yellow boxes on my reloading bench--revolver and rifle.

They work as intended. Accurate as a Sierra only better constructed for clean kills.

WN

Zombies are scarce as hen's teeth.....



so I don't need them either!!

I for one say KUDOS to MD for telling it like it is.
It's refreshing for someone in 'the biz' to speak up and call a spade a spade.

Over the past 4-5 yrs I've stated my dissatisfaction with Speer bullets and MD has told me they work pretty well at medium-modest velocity. But when you're running 6mm Rem, 270 Win, 7mm RM, 300 WM, etc. 'medium-modest' velocity is second rate.

Rant over.

You can call me, 3100 guy, for obvious reasons.

Also I'm actually surprised that AS many have said in this thread that their results/observations have paralleled mine.

7mm 145 gr BTSP in my 284.

I got a rifle back, My dad bought it new in 1951, a 721 Rem .270. The groove is .2782 and had a hell of a time getting it to shoot (ran about 4" w/most bullets) until I found this out. I loaded 53 gr of I-4895 behind the .2770" 100 gr Speer SP and guess what, 3/4 inch @ 100. I figured the square based soft bullet would "bump" up and fill in the grooves, evidently they do. I have about a dozen different bullets from everybody except Berger and in measuring them the fattest are Winchester orig 130 silvertips and recent 150 gr. power points, they measure an honest .2772. Sierra and Hornady are in the .2765+ range and Nosler recent 160's and old gold 150 PT's are .276' on the nose. Older 100 gr Speer HP's are .277 and new 150 Hot cores are .2768" I have hopes for them. Anyway as to game I have used them all my life and particularly liking the 165 30, 150 30 (in the 308), 160 in the 7x57 and 250's in the 338 dia. I've killed many deer, black bear, an Elk and always thought they were on the "soft" side but I mostly use them in the 2500-2900 fps range, cup and core glory. They are also made within sight of big bull Elk range so what is not to like?-Muddy

So is the hollow-point there only to hold the stem on the plastic tip or is it bigger than that?

It's usually big enough to contain the base of the tip as well. Take a look at the some of the websites showing sectioned bullets, like Nosler's.

Isn't adding a plastic tip to the Nosler Solid Bases what produced the early generation Ballistic Tips that were explosive, even though the Solid Bases weren't?

I purchased 500 90 gr Deep Shocks for my 6mm Rem before Speer quit making them . Glad i did .

mathman,

Yeah, they didn't expect that sort of change in expansion. I suspect the same basic thing happened when Hornady started making SST's.

I think you're right. I loaded some relatively early 165 grain SST's for a friend's 308 and they were on the soft side. We'd find them under the off side hide of bucks shot through the rib cage. They weren't blown up, but they were flattish little domes looking like less than half the original weight.

I'll use the 100gr. .257 in 14 twist .250s, they shoot well and behave appropriately on game at those velocities. I like the .308 165 gr. hot-cor as a cheaper practice bullet than the same weight partition. Same for the .358 250 grain bullet in the Whelen. I shot a 6 pt. in the neck at 6 yds with the .308 200 gr. in a .300 H&H, at about 2850. Almost beheaded the deer. Shot two deer under 25 yards with the 150 BTSP in a .270. They behaved about like a varmint bullet. Killed the deer, though. I also shot a four point in the chest cavity with a .308 165 gr. RN from a .300 savage. Looked like the deer just deflated. Great bullet, I miss that one. Last, I shot a decent sized doe at 8 yds with the .41 cal 220 gr out. Of a 10" contender. Entered the chest, broke most of the ribs on one side, transected the abdominal cavity, and exited the opposite hip. Messy gutting job, but no tracking. You could say I like them, but when used within their limits.

I really like their FP bullets in lever actions.

I do have a good load with the 150 FP for my dad's old .30-30, but haven't shot anything but paper yet

I have used several Speer bullets over the years. The 165gn SP is one of my favourite bullets in the .30-06 as well as the 180gn. Both flat bases. The 170gn Semi SP is another good bullet in my 8x57. The 130gn HP is a dynamite load for pigs in my .308 and here in Australia, a lot of blokes load the same bullet. Also, the 100gn SP performs well in my 20 inch .250 Savage. I have just bought a 6.5x55 and have loaded up some 140gn Speer SPs. I think that they will go ok on pigs and deer. I tend to load a lot of Hornady and Speer bullets and Sierras to a lesser extent. I must say I love the yellow plastic boxes when empty. They are so handy for storing stuff like nails, gun parts, fishing lures etc. I hope they never go to cardboard.

I don't use the boattail Speers but the flat base bullets perform well for me. I don't stress them and most of my loads with Speer bullets run from 2600 - 2850 fps.

If you can't find 'em, you can't shoot 'em.

After reading about the Deep Curls, I thought that my search for reasonably priced high- performance bullets was finally over. Never saw one for sale on-line or locally. Next thing I know, I read here that they're discontinued. Now my cheap, good bullets are Partition blems.

It took years for me to find some of the 46gr .224 FPs I wanted. I have yet to find the 110gr .308 HPs (they look like pistol bullets) that I want for light loads for my .308. At 1500 fps or so they kill foxes and such like lightning. Like somebody else said, you have to know that the bullets are going to be there from year to year when you need them.

The 250 gn seems to be cat's meow in the .35 Whelen. --- Mel

A buddy here in Montana thought that too for years, until he had one come apart during an angling shot on an elk.

After reading this thread I checked my bench and the "Yellow Boxes" are getting fewer and fewer and the amber "Grand Slam" boxes are just about gone.

When I find a bullet that works for my application I tend to buy as many as I can (I still have old Nosler SB's & 35cal. 225 and 9.3mm 250 gr. BT's stacked deep).

The only Speer products I have left are old yellow box items.
> .224 - 50gr. Spitzer, 52gr. HP & 55gr. Spitzer
> .257 - 87gr. Spitzer
> 6.5mm - 140gr. Spitzer
> .308 - 150gr. & 165gr GS, 165gr. & 180gr. TBBC
> .338 - 200gr. Spitzer
> .358 - 180gr. FP and 250gr. Spitzer
> 9.3mm - 270gr. Semi-Spitzer
> .375 - 235gr. Semi-Spitzer and 285gr. GS
> .458 - 400gr. FP

While not as experienced as many on this forum, I have been using Speer products since 1972 and the only issues I experienced or personally witnessed in the field has been; when I wound up my 338 Win. Mag. to full warp and shot blacktails, caribou and a mule deer with the 200 gr. Spitzer and wondered why it was tough on the steaks and chops. The other was when a friend used his 358 STA with the 250gr. Spitzer on a Nilgai at 80 yards, both bullets didn't penetrate and went to pieces. I finished that goat roping with a 225gr. NPT.

Speer's poor availability these past few years and product development is really costing them market share.

There are just so many other choices these days.

YMMV

SC

Painting with a broad brush here, some Sierra bullets perform awesome.

hard to find a better varmint bullet for a 223 than the 50gr TNT for money and splat factor.

I agree!!! I've been shooting their 50gr .224" TNT's for decades on our Pennsylvania groundhog population.

I've used a bunch, and liked the old Grand Slams too, but when I've exhausted my supply I won't be buying any more Speers. And most of the ones I have bought have been clearance items at reduced prices.

We load for 8- 30-30 rifles here and our loads consist of the 160 FTX and the 170 Sierra FN all loaded with LeverEvolution powder.

For gift giving my kids/grandangels are known to buy component bullets for me and have been able to find only the 170 Speer Hot-Cor FN for me several times. I load them with my stash of W748 in RP cases with RP primers and they are every bit as accurate as the Sierra and the Hornady FTX, though they have a different POI. I haven't used them on deer yet, just practice, but would not hesitate if the others were not available.

I think Speer are ok bullets.

I have to admitI've used a lot more Sierras than anything else. Mostly because back in 1954 when I started reloading, Sierra's were cheaper than Speer or Hornady, probably because they were made in Southern California back then and shipping was probably less. Even after I left California I was used to Sierras and how they worked so never much bothered with the other brands. Hunted most deer and not much else, not counting jackrabbits and the like. Bought a rifle that I got quite cheaply because the previous owner said it was inaccurate and he couldn't get it to shoot anything. I figured if I could find a load that would do 1.5" or less consistently I'd keep it. I tried all kinds of powder and bullets appropriate to the .308 Win. and then some powders not so appropriate. One finally worked, a 165 gr. Speer Hot Core over a stiff load of W760. Only did 2550 FPS from the rifle's 18.5" barrel but I got my 1.5" or less consistently and deer from about 30 feet away to out at 250 yards died very conveniently. Worked up a load with the 200 gr. Hot Core for my Roger #1B in 300 Win, Mag. that also worked in a Winchester M70. Dropped a cow elk at 530 lasered yards with that load. Been playing with some 150 gr. Grand Slams looking for loads for the 7x57 and .280 Rem. and have a couple hundred 250 gr. Grand Slams for my .35 Whelen to play with. Too many loads to work up and not enough time to do it.
Paul B.

I haven't read through the whole thread, but here's my take.

I've reached the age when I've mostly retired from hunting, so I don't care about killing stuff. However, I've gotten into lever rifle silhouette, and some claim Speer 30-30s work well or even best.

So, short version, I don't shoot Speer bullets because I can't find and get them consistently. Availability, especially 30-30s, has been spotty at best. I don't have the time or patience to screw around with an inconsistent supply. I go with alternatives.

'nuff said.

Paul

The market goes to;
Cheapest
Most expensive
Newest
Most accurate
Trendy
One could find other categories, but you can fit the more popular brands in those . Speer is not known as the most accurate, they are not always cheapest, their top lines never caught on, and they were never distinguished (exclusive or expensive) enough to be trendy. Lots of folks used and still use them, but to be trendy one gas to make big changes and attract attention. I drive a 93 3/4 ton diesel, many folks say they wish they could buy that kind of truck new. If they were still made nobody would like a rough riding, cloth seat, no cupholder, gearshift engaged lock out hub four wheel drive. That is about where Speer is today.

Good analogy DB.

No cupholder!

Dang, Dude.

I have never started loading for a new caliber and had a Speer bullet jump out as one I'd like to try.

I use 125 TNTs for target shooting out to 200 yards with my Garand and 03A3. Light recoil, reasonable price and they're more accurate than I can hold.

Haven't found a better bullet for my 7's than the Speer .284 145gr SPBT.

The 125 grain TNTs have a reputation for being good in Garands for 200 yard targets.

Four Speer bullets are mainstays on my bench;

.224 - 70gr RNSP for .223

.308 - 100 gr "Plinker" RN half-jackets in .308, .30-40 Krag, and .30-06 for opportunistic small game hunting and for loads to teach young 'uns and small ladies to shoot.

.308 - 130 gr FP in .30-30, 30-40 Krag, .308 Win, and .30-06 for youth/ladies loads for whitetails and pigs.

.458 - 400 gr FP for .45-70 & .458WM for 1600-1800fps "plinking" loads for "trigger time" and practicing fundamentals.

Other than that, I have a mix of Bergers, Noslers, Hornadys, and Sierras depending on the caliber and anticipated use.

My LGS doesn't carry many Speer offerings. Hornady and Sierra fill 75% of the shelf space with Nosler and Speer behind them.

Ed

150gr Hot Cors were my choice for 30-06 loads maybe 20-25 years ago. Inexpensive at the time, worked really well on whitetails and were accurate enough. Even loaded up a coupla boxes of the 165gr version, when no one around here had any 150s.

At the time I was loading for myself (two rifles) and a few others, so probably went through several hundred bullets over about a 5 year period.

The 150gr Hot Cor proved a tad too tough in my 8x57 loads, as expansion on deer was iffy to nonexistant. Switched to 150gr Sierras, then 125gr Hornady spire points, which is my prefered load. Or will be until I run out of 'em.

I really like speer bullets. I use them in a .243win, 280rem, & 30-06. I like the spbt for the .243, and the mag-tip & grand slams for the 280 & 30-06.
One thing I have always wondered about is all the dislike for the newer version of the grand slam. Switching to a single lead core instead of 2 different ones is what everybody complains about. But now if you think about it, you have the same bullet as the mag-tip with the exception being, the grand slam has the heel lock, making it "better", maybe. Lots have said they like the mag-tip, but no longer like the GS. Makes no sense to me. I have only used the MT & GS on deer and a few bison for butcher with very good results. I Haven't tried them on elk, but plan to someday. I love the 7mm -160gr. magtip & grand slam, and the .308 - 180gr, mag-tip & grand slam. I AM ALWAYS ON THE LOOKOUT FOR THE 180GR. MAG-TIP, wish they wouldn't have discontinued them.

My own testing of the new 165 gr G.S. showed it would lose it's core which didn't happen with the previous dual core version. It became just an expensive Mag Tip bullet, there are better bullets out there for the same money now. I do miss the 180 gr Mag Tip as well, it was a great bullet at a great price.

The Speer 235 grain .375 bullet is my go-to bullet for all "lighter" game - up to moose - kudu - etc.

Great bullet! Astonishing accuracy!

Terry

outdoorsman74,

I tested the 200-grain .30 caliber "new" Grand Slam from a .300 Winchester Magnum in dry newspaper, which provides a very good indication of what might happen when a bullet it hits heavy bone. Two out of five lost their cores.

I liked the old Grand Slam a lot, since it always held together in tests or game.

Glad y'all reminded me that I'm out of Speer 130gr .308HPs. Great bullet..

Speer 270gr 9.3's were super accurate and deadly on WTails at a max load of RL15 out of a CZ550 for 10 years for me. 1st 4 rounds with a 3 gr under max break in load gave me 3 rnds touching and a "flyer", with all 4 covered by a quarter.

Miss the 9.3 CZ, don't miss the heavy arsed rifle out in the field, so it became a box blind shooter that a neighbor lusted for for 2 years and finally talked me out of it. His first shot on game at a 250 hog at 240 yards was spot on DRT.
Ron

I like the handgun bullets more than rifle from Speer. That being said I have a finicky Cooper that loves the 130 BTSP. At 7mm-08 speeds it should do just fine.

When I started reloading in '80 or '81, I was exclusively loading 38 caliber pistol bullets. I would save my pennies for "yellow boxes" of 148 HBWC and **wow** jacketed high velocity bullets like the uber-cool 110 JHP (which got me to Blue Dot instead of Bullseye!). Speer was the only choice at our drugstore that had a gun counter. Reloading Manual #10 was my first; I almost wore it out--cover-to-cover many times. Vernon Speer was almost family. ;o)

Sad to watch the company change hands, etc. over the years. I want them to win, but I've always turned to Hornady, Sierra, Nosler and Barnes for game.

I read this whole thread again and realized Travis hit the nail on the head with one sentence.

That's true, but this is the "Ask The Gunwriters" forum. If Travis really wants to be a gunwriter (and he has confessed to at least mild yearnings in that direction) he needs to quit summing stuff up in one sentence.

I did that once in my youth, submitting several pieces to Gray's Sporting Journal that as I pointed out in my cover letter, went directly to today's need for short, to-the-point articles for ultra-busy hunters and anglers. Here are some samples:

How To Shoot Ruffed Grouse"--Shoot fast.
How To Catch Big Brown Trout"--Fish at night.
How To Kill Big Mule Deer"--Don't shoot the small ones.

Gray's ran all of them, but did not pay worth a s--t. I learned my lesson, but obviously Travis hasn't learned anything so far.

Ha!

(But I really did like the DeepCurl)

I load the .35 Speer 180 gr for my .358 Winchesters. My late dad made a tool that swages a spitzer nose on them.

My Kimber .22 Hornet likes the Speer 45 spitzer.

My .240 Weatherby really likes the 105 spitzer which isn't around anymore although I have a few left.

One of the most accurate bullets in my 7 MM Weatherby is their 175 Mag Tip which has been discontinued; the 160 Hot Cor is right there with it.

My son's .308 Model 7 really likes the 150 Hot Cor.

The .30 cal 170 FP has done really welli in a couple of .30/30's.

The 7MM 160 Deep Curl has been very accurate in several 7 Mags. Fortunately I have a pretty good supply.

A pistol bullet that I really liked but I believe has been discontinued, is the .38 cal. 146 semi-jacketed semi-wadcutter HP. VERY accurate in every .38 or.357 I've used them in.

Their lead 158semi-wadcutter HP has also been very accurate in my .38's and .357's when loaded at around 1000fps.

In my mind, Speer is all about doing volume through universal distribution of Gold Dots and Lawman for handguns. Gold Dots are one of the top three, all of which differ only slightly in their performance. Lawman is pretty nice practice ammo if a given spec doesn't happen to spray from your gun, and reasonably affordable if you look in the right places. When it comes to the rest of their stuff, I can't figure out who buys it, although this thread has provided a few answers to that.

My dad always had a lot of Speer yellow on the bench when I was a kid. He used them on a bunch of stuff in a bunch of different guns, and I've inherited some of his stash. Speer and RCBS seemed like they were joined at the hip back then. And Speer seems to be stuck in 1980.

I thought JB summed the Speer situation up nicely. Speers aren't just the vanilla of bullets; they are the cheap, artificially-flavored vanilla. At least in rifle bullets. I do like their BTSP for hunting though. They are rather soft, but they work well for the broadside ribs shots I take. I pick the heavier-for-caliber versions; they go through and make a big hole. I'd not trust them for anything other than mostly broadside ribs shots though.

There's just no reason to use Speers other over designs, unless you have a specific caliber/cartridge combo where they work well, and don't want to bother finding a replacement. Their shoddy marketing/distribution practices, in particular their discarding of the handloading market, have sullied them for me and many with whom I've interacted.

I don't think the Speer company itself "discarded the handloading market." Instead I suspect ATK, which owns Speer, told them they'd primarily be making bullets for Federal and CCI ammunition, rather than for handloaders. That's what sometimes happens when a company becomes part of a much larger conglomerate.

yeah. I wonder what ol Vernon Speer would think about this situation.