I'm currently rationalizing my rifles in order to reload for a fewer number of cartridges. I'm a recreational shooter who enjoys using hunting weight sporters mainly for target practice in field positions out to about 300 yards. Hunting is of much lesser import for me.

I have .223, .243, .308, and .375. The .223 and .308 stay for sure. I haven't really tried the .243 yet.

- Should I sell off the .243 Win in the middle, or are there reasons to load for it as a recreational non-hunting cartridge?

- Is the cost about the same as the .308 to shoot?

- Can the shorter barrel life be lengthened by loading heavier bullets to ~2700 fps or so? Will they always wear out faster than .308? Would 110 or 130 grain .308 bullets be a better choice than lightly loaded 100 grain .243?

I would ditch the 375 before any of the others

Get rid of most of them. Keep the .223 rem and buy a good 30-06...

I agree.

That and I'd not get rid of the 308 for a 30/06 as some have mentioned. That's about as stupid as it comes.

The nice thing about paper is any cartridge incl air rifles has sufficient power. I think it's you are keeping the best of the two rounds and don't think the 243 offers anything the other two won't cover. The 30-06 trade idea doesn't appeal to me . The one suggestion from me would be a good 22 rimfire

I wish you a long enough life and enough shooting opportunities to wear out the barrel on a 243.

Based on what you say your needs are, I'd ditch the 243. The 223 and 308, while being two of the absolutely, most boring cartridges on the face of the earth, are generally accurate and have all the same ground covered as the 243. Since hunting isn't a priority and your not smacking long range coyotes, something the 243 excels at, there really is no need for it in your arsenal based on your criteria. Nor is there for a 375 for that matter.

Never. The .243 is the one you should keep. And forget the .30-06 when you have a good .308.

Apparently some people missed the fact that you mostly shoot targets, but do hunt too, though hunting isn't as important.

The .243 will have the shortest barrel life of any. The other three will cover any centerfire hunting on earth.

My requirements for the range are different than for hunting. When shooting at the range, I want to shoot more rounds hence wanting less recoil. With that said, I'd much prefer to shoot a .243 over a .308 as it's more enjoyable to shoot for longer durations.

For hunting, I want something that I feel confident with and that has is sufficient for the game I'm after. If traveling to a new (rural) area to hunt, I want the ability to easily find factory ammo should I ever need it.

with the above said, I would have to ditch the .375 above all others and keep the .243. That is unless you plan on an African Safari.

Here's an idea- If you want to cut down your reloading, just stick the 243 in the back of the gun safe, and don't shoot it much. It keeps ALL your options open at not much additional cost. It is entirely possible with the current ammo situation that 243 bullets might be more available than 223 bullets or even 308 bullets.
Royce

I would keep the .243 and use varmint bullets for coyote,varmints and targets. You could always load 100 grain if you were invited on a deer hunt.

Or you could sell them all and get a 6.5 Creedmore.

The .375 would go first. The .243 second, mainly because you can get good, cheap, military brass for the other two and as JB mentioned, its barrel life is shorter, especially if you're pounding it hard at the range.

I've only had a .243 for a year and like it very much for the scrawny deer we have and really like the old Sako chambered for it, but I likely won't put even a hundred full-power rounds a year through it.

You're an idiot.

Exactly. I would much rather shoot .223 and .243 at the range than the bigger stuff.

...The .223 and .308 stay for sure...

You asked, and answered.

Very true!

Unless the type of game you intend to hunt requires it, I would consider selling the .375 and the .243 and adding a quality .22 to the arsenal. A nice CZ would work well. I would also then consider adding a 260 or 6.5 creede as well. Another fun option would be to add a 30-30 for relatively cheap paper punching and all around fun.

All I shoot is the 243.killed every thing with it from coyotes to elk. An extremely effective long range cartridge. Anyone who has ever had one very long, and shot it very much, usually keeps them. Long slick bullets shoot like a laser. Can't go wrong with a 223 or a 308 either.

I was in agreement with the poster's statement of getting rid of the 375. I would keep the rest.

The .243 is just one of those cartridges that seems to go right where you were trying to put it with regularity. You can kill a lot of game with pinpoint placement.

I think the real answer is not to sell any ,but look at all the gaps in between calibers that need to be filled.Such as 17 cal,20 cal,6.5,270.7MM,29,8MM ,338,9.3!!!Sell,what are you thinking????

If it was me, I'd keep a rifle I already owned unless I really needed the money or more room in the gun closet, or wanted to trade for something I wanted a lot more. Particularly if I already had dies and/or any amount of components on hand. Never know, it might come in handy some day.

If you want some friendly advice...

I would sell the unfired 243 ASAP!

Without any further thought or rationalizing about it.

The LAST thing a down-sizing shooter should do is shoot a 243...especially if it has a faster twist!

Don't make the same tragic mistake I did...

Btw...the 375 is one of the best all arounds there is.

I would sell it ASAP...etc etc...

Have owned several .243's over the last 50 years.. Like the .257 Rob. never had one I really liked.

I can't figure out what to do with my .243's. I think they'll do a great job at it though, whatever it is.

Who cares about barrel life? By the time you've shot out a 243 barrel you've spent more on bullets, powder and primer than the cost of a new barrel.

Barrels are consumables.

For the OP's purposes, I'd keep the 243 and get rid of most everything else.

One of the interesting things about this thread is that so far NOBODY has asked the OP what he hunts.

While he stated he does a lot more target shooting than hunting, he didn't say he DOESN'T hunt, and obviously he bought the .375 for some purpose. And while a .243 works for quite a bit of hunting, it does NOT come close to filling the shoes of a .375, or even a .308.

Of course, the failure to ask what he hunts is easy to figure out. Most replies on the Campfire, even on this forum, are limited to what the guy replying would do in his particular circumstances. This is because most people who reply aren't really all that interested in the question. Instead they want to post about themselves, which is what 90% of Internet forums are really all about.

Often the replies even imply the OP is a fool, as in, "You should get rid of that POS and get a REAL rifle like my...." Or buy a real scope, or buy some real bullets or real powder.

I think I'm the only person on the internet that freely admits I only want to talk about myself.




Travis

And you do an excellent job!

Thank you.

As far as the OP is concerned, I would sell the .243 and utilize the lighter weight 30 cal bullets if he needs flexibility.

His .223, .308, and .375 will cover everything he could ever want to hunt/shoot.



Travis

You sir, should reside on Mt. Olympus...

I read the Campfire. I know here is nothing you can't kill as well with a .243 as with anything else. So I didn't need to ask the OP what he hunts. Stick already told me the .243 is a no brainer.

Excellent point!

I just checked and philthygeezer hasn't even logged onto the Campfire since shortly after midnight on the 16th. Perhaps he figured he'd read enough of our collective wisdom by then.

I do. I just spell it H-A-V-R-E.




Dave

John, let's not get too far off track, this is about TRAVIS, and how smart he is, good looking, desirable in every way really. Just a superior human being all the way around.

Why are we even talking about the stupid .243 anyway when we have a rockstar in our midst?

you anywhere near Trout Creek?

Negative. That's getting close to enemy territory.




Travis

Trout Creek is in a totally different world than Harvey in almost every way imaginable, except the license plates on the vehicles are from the same state.

I like it up here. People have seemed to accept me.

The ones that don't know me anyway.




Travis

Hey, better than Buck Owens or Dwight Yoakam on the streets of Bakersfield.

Jorge,

think of Havre as "the little bit of North Dakota that fell off the back of a sugar beet truck"

Sycamore

Yes!

I really like this thread. Thank you for all the brain food. I've been lurking but didn't want to post anything as I really like to hear alternate viewpoints outside my limited experience.

I've been shooting recreationally for about 25 years. Not high volume, but steady. I have shot factory ammunition until now (mostly .22 rimfire, .223 and .308), so I am just beginning to reload. I think I would try to limit the number of powders I use as well. Try to get by with just H4895 for loads of all sorts, and Trail Boss for bunny pfart loads.

The cartridge consternation is partly thought experiment to figure out a personal optimum, given my level of practice and time constraints. I do have other rifles in other cartridges (including .30-06), but thought, "What if I only had .223, .243, .308 and .375: could I dump the .243 and make things even simpler?". (EDIT:) John and Travis think so.

Testing the depths of self-abuse in the real world, so far I have eliminated .45-70 Govt, .222 Rem, .22-250 Rem, .257 Roberts, and 7mm-08 Rem from my safe. They are all fine, but too many options. The .45-70 Govt Marlin went out when I got my .338 WM. I like the ergonomics and ruggedness of bolt actions in McMillan stocks, and powerful factory ammo is easier to get in .338 WM. The .257 went because I thought .243 was a more sensible option in that bracket, but now the .243 might go too.

So my remaining rifles are in .223 Rem, .243 Win, .270 Win, .308 Win, .30-06 Sprg, .338 WM, .375 H&H and .458 WM. That's eight cartridges left, and the process of elimination is getting harder. I think the .243 and .338 may be the next to go. The .270 will be harder, but it doesn't make sense to keep it. Leaving the .458 until later. I don't want to think about that until I've shot it a bunch. So maybe .223, .308/.30-06, .375 and .458 would cover the most bases with the fewest dies and components.

I really like the .270, but it's more of a hunting cartridge and it makes more sense to keep the .30-06 to share bullets with the .308 than to keep the .270 around. I hear bsa1917hunter about the .30-06: I do think it's a more versatile hunting cartridge than the .308, but less used in target rifles (though the same match bullets apply). My first Model 70 was a push feed XTR sporter in .270 Win that shot minute of angle with cheap ammo. The Remington Model Seven in .308 I replaced it with was much less pleasant to shoot and I didn't get the same groups. That trade was a mistake I still regret. The 18.5" Model Seven has since found another home to visit, and a 22" Model 70 FWT has replaced it. I like a little more weight and a longer barrel.

The .243 I haven't shot yet. TopCat's warnings about not shooting it or you might like it too much ring true - many people seem to love the cartridge. Maybe I'll try mine out before I sell it. I don't understand why someone would hunt deer with a .243 if s/he already had a .308 Win, and the cartridge seems a little hot when a 6BR would probably be a better choice for 6mm target shooting. Questions:

- If I load lightly will the barrel last a lot longer, or is it simply about cartridge capacity and bore diameter?
- Would typical 6 mm target bullets work in a 1:10 twist?

I feel that fewer rifles means more money for practice. A Kimber 84M (.223) or Model 70 in each remaining cartridge means that practice with one would benefit the others. Loading for fewer cartridges means getting much more familiar/proficient with them.

I'm very much more a recreational target shooter than a hunter. If/when I go out again it will likely be for northern white tails or mule deer. I think the .308 is a wonderful cartridge because it's relatively mild, it fits in both my Savage FTR (last year on a course, I found out I could hit stuff at 600 m in the rain!) and my Winchester Featherweight, and I could even load it with .30-30 bullets at lower velocity if appropriate. One set of target dies would cover a lot of ground.

I would like to have elk and moose covered if I ever got the invite. I do think both the .270 and .30-06 are fine for these, but I'd probably take a .375 provided I have the same proficiency. The .375 is mainly for entertainment, but also for if I wind up working in grizzly country again. We used to carry 12 gauges with Foster slugs, but I figure a .375 would work a lot better. Brennekes are nearly unobtainium in Canada, and it sounds like a .30-06 on up would work better anyway.

The first time I shot a .375 H&H was in my Winchester 70 Safari. I was surprised how pleasant the cartridge was to shoot given its level of power. The rifle rocks back but it doesn't belt you. Part of keeping the .375 is how much I just plain like it. Expensive to shoot, but fun!

The .458 is an open question. It may be beyond my level of recoil comfort. I haven't shot it enough to know, but intend to find out. So far it's been a whole other world from the .375 H&H.

Thanks everyone.

My Friend's place near Trout Creek, his place is about five miles up the mountain. Absolutely lovely:

Now that you've explained your situation, I'd say ditch the .243 and keep the .375, since you seem to like it so well. The .458 seems like overkill unless you're guiding brown bear clients.

According to Mule Deer's recent article on bore erosion, loading down the .243 a bit likely won't make a great deal of difference (I'm extrapolating a bit here). It might ease up on your brass a bit if you don't size the crap out of it every time. A 1-10" twist will work with hunting bullets up to 100gr, but likely not the long, skinny, ones target shooters use weighing 105-107 grains or so. I think a .243 is a great hunting round in the Lower 48, but less useful up North where stuff is generally larger and it's not a great choice for steady target shooting unless you don't mind replacing barrels every so often.

philthygeezer,

Thanks for the additional info, especially on your hunting. The truth is that most of us shoot a lot more at targets than when hunting.

Travis copied what I said very early on in the thread about the .243 being the one to dump, but that's OK, he's just learning.

I have nothing against the .243, and in fact own two right now, and my wife has another. We've both hunted with the .243 a lot, but it will toast barrels much quicker than either a .223 or .308.

Most people are pleasantly surprised by the relatively gentle recoil of a .375 the first time they shoot one--and the .458 is a noticeable step up in recoil!

There's a bowling alley up there?

I've never met a 243 that I didn't like. I'd not part with one if I had one right now. I'd suggest shooting it before you consider selling. Why shoot deer with a 243 when you have a 308? Because the 243 will work just as well, and generally with less recoil.

And then there is the rifle looney aspect of things. Why have eight guns when you could have nine? Simplification is for marriage!

Too complicated. The .223, .308, and .375 cover all the bases.

But so would the .222, 7-08, and the .375.

Or the .222 Rem Mag, the 270, and the .375. And on, and on it can go.

We all pick our poison and since you have the .223, .308, and the .375 and are looking to downsize, I say dump the .243. Matter of fact, the .243 is probably one of the last cartridges I'd keep if I was downsizing.



Travis

Based on the opinion of people that have lived here a lot longer than I have, the consensus seems to be that Montana starts around Havre, and keeps getting better until you hit North Dakoduh.



Travis

Plagiarism is a dying art. I'm bringing it back.




Dave

THIS is lovely:

223, 308, 375.

Plenty available components and ammo for Lotsa practice and all your worldwide hunting covered. Skip the 458 unless your hunting Jumbo or backing up dangerous game clients.

Embrace your practicality!

Good luck with your decision!

OK...

This is true: I should have looked closer and made the proper attribution. Apologies for the oversight. Also thanks for pointing out aspects of my original post on occasion. The thread went really well and I think I've learned from it.







I like the idea of the .243 but that barrel life bothers me. The post above about the target bullets not working well in a 1:10 twist kind of seals the deal.

I've only run two rounds of .458 Lott and two .458 WM through my brand new Ruger RSM. The stock began to split at the tang on the fourth shot. I need to send the thing back to Ruger to give them a chance to do right by me.

So far I'm not so enthusiastic about the results. I felt like the stock after four rounds. "Noticeable step up" seems like subtlety. It felt like about double. Mind you, there is the hockey puck on the back of the Ruger vs. the decelerator on the Win 70, and 500 grain DGX loads vs. 270 grain soft points are not exactly a fair comparison either. But I was wearing a PAST magnum recoil pad with the .458 vs a t-shirt with the .375, and it still walloped me. Maybe it's shooting form...

Bought sold many 243s (dies, brass, etc) and keep getting another.
Truth told it can do what needs to be done here.
Barrel life? No problem. Buy factory. Wear out. Sell or trade. Replace. Not that much cost from new to sold price - vs ammo expense.

Yet for factory I would keep a 223 and 308 or 270.

A Looney say you? Hand loader? 222 and 6.5x55 or swap a 6.5x47, Creedmoor, or 260 for Swede.

For big stuff 375 is tough to beat. 416 RM is painful. I like the 9.3x62 and 338/06.

Right now a 243 T3 is my "light" rifle and 6.5x47 is for the rest.

Ted Nugent once said give me a JOC w 150 Noz PT's.....

Fact is most all work but individual nuances appeal to various people.

Do Believe Wooters said 223, 308, 375. Cannot argue. Add a 22LR and 12 gauge and you're set.

Im still in tears over the thoughts of someone dumping a 270 AND a 7-08..... Im gonna need counseling!!

The 7-08 was much easier to decide on than the .270. What could be better for hunting and shooting than a 6.8x62mm cartridge that marries aspects of the 6.5x55 and .30-06? I really, really like the .270 in a sporter weight rifle: Doesn't kick hard, though maybe a little more abruptly than the .30-06. I still wonder what the thing could do if it had some serious match rifles, bullets and cases: would it be an ideal 1000 yard cartridge that doesn't burn barrels like the 6.5-284?

The .243 is probably the last cartridge I'd ever part with. But I don't have any innate desire to be bludgeoned by magnums either.

Word...

So you know, there are people/companies out there that make new barrels.

Burning out a barrel is something you should strive for.

There is a chambering that already has all those great attributes- it's called a 7-08

Rock the .223 and .308. Sell the others to buy components and or upgrade optics.

I've dropped a fair number of elk with the .308 and they did not die any slower than when shot with a belted mag. No muss, no fuss. Easy recoil and pinpoint accuracy. In fact I just ate cow elk steaks for dinner courtesy of one of my .308s.

.223s. Well that is a no brainer. Ground squirrels to medium game. It has everything covered, and cheap for target practice.

Ditto, I've have owned a few .243's over the years and even pushed one fairly hard. They're all gone now. I'm not overly fond of the .223 as we had them way back when in '71 in the service. I got a bad taste in my mouth with them. I had a AR in .22 and .223 for competition and they're gone too along with a Rem 700 PSS in .223..all gone...

I still have my Rem 40X Single Shot in .308 with a 12X42 NightForce on top and a Rem 700 custom built 6.5-06 that's a hoot to shoot out to 1k.

Tell us more about the .375...You are talking about the straight walled case center fire akin to the 38-55, right? Not the H&H 375, right? If so, what model a Marlin or Winchester? I have one of those and it will go on out to 300 yds all day. It's easy on brass and easy to hand load. Not much kick. Personally, I would not get rid of that.

But just like everyone else personal preference plays a big role.

ditto on keeping the .243. if I had to choose one out of the list to keep for target shooting and to hunt with, it would be the .243 hands down. I've killed elk with mine, no muss no fuss. when nosler 95 BT's go on sale buy a bunch of them. low recoil. and they flat kill stuff. IF you burned out the barrel one day, think how much money you'll have after selling the other rifles off.

I'd be looking more at which rifle shot the best, before just deciding on caliber. if one is a 2 moa vs a 1/2 moa rifle, it would sway my opinion greatly on which to keep.

Fuggin' A.






Travis

Several people have mentioned rebarreling the .243, as a response to some of us who mentioned it burns barrels quicker than the other cartridges philthygeezer shoots.

Rebarreling is certainly an option, but I don't know if any of these people noticed that he lives in Canada, where it isn't as cheap or easy to rebarrel a rifle as it is in the U.S. I've been told this by several of my friends living in western Canada, and just had BC30cal (Dwayne) confirm it in a PM. Rebarreling costs are up to $1000, and while that's in Canadian dollars worth about 3/4 of U.S. dollars right now, I doubt many of us regularly pay $750 for a rebarrel job. This is partly due to more regulations on gunsmiths in Canada, one reason there aren't as many there, which is another problem with rebarreling.

Even just trading off a .243 with a barrel that's starting to go isn't as easy in Canada, partly because most rifles are imported, and not as cheap as they are here.

As noted earlier, I own two .243's and so does my wife, and we shoot them considerably. But when (not if) I shoot out the barrel on my Ruger American Rifle it's no big deal.

This is why I suggested he sell his .243 and keep the .223 and .308 for target shooting. Both have much longer barrel life than the typical .243. Plus, it turns out his .243 has a standard 1-10 twist so isn't ideal for longer match bullets.

About an hour away from where I type.

What a place! You could get drunk and wander about for days without bumpin' your head on anything, 'cept maybe that truck.

John,

It's cheaper and easier than a lot of people think- you just have to wait for the right deal on a good barrel, and know the right 'smith to send it to. There are plenty of both around if a fella knows where to look. Selling used rifles is also pretty easy, although the prospect of buying a rifle and re-barreling is certainly looked upon more skeptically here than in the U.S.

The other point I was going to make is that a 10" twist won't hinder the OP in the least, given that he only shoots out to 300 yards. Match-grade bullets under 100 gr would be his huckleberry for that kind of shooting. That's a two-edged sword, though. As much as I love the .243, and I was certainly going to recommend that he keep his...until I saw that he doesn't shoot past 300 yards. At that distance the .243 won't offer any practical advantage over his .223 and .308, but it does have a couple of palpable disadvantages.

That said, SHAME on us all for extinguishing the waning flame of a rifle looney among us

You forgot about Shrapnel...........

Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark, likely on you.

You've been thinking of selling the .243 for a reason. It's not like it would be tough to get another if you for some reason missed it.

6.5 Creedmoor. You'll love it...

If you decide to shoot the 243 before you sale it whatever you do.........

Do not work up a reduced recoil load with H4895 and start playing. It could very well spoil your plans. 28.5 grains with an 80 gr bullet would be a good place to start.

Shod

My 243 is at the front of my safe.....the 30-06 gets shot once in a while. The .243 is fun to shoot - accurate, fast and flat. Makes a milk jug full of water explode. Is a great gun to let new shooters try a centerfire that does not kick the crap out of them. Can be loaded with hunting rounds or varmint bullets - lots to offer in my estimation.

All equally true of the .223, except maybe the part about its position in your safe. Add long barrel life, cheap brass, ammo, bullets, and the fact it uses half the powder. For the OP's purposes, the .223 is the logical choice.

Just for the record, I don't currently own a .223 and do have a .243, because it fits MY situation.

And if you or wife or kids wanted to hunt deer with it the .243 would do nicely - .223 marginal.

This is about the OP, remember, not you or me.

That's where I think I would step up to the .308: I could load it to .30-30 velocities for the bushes (I think the Win 70 FWT is more ergonomic than a 336) or just buy factory 165 grain loads and they should work fine.

Fair point about wife or kids: would 150 grain SPs at ~2600 fps be a mild enough deer hunting load to suffice?

Depends on the wife and kids. I have known some that could handle that easily, and some that couldn't--and not just women and kids, but big strong men.

Shrap doesn't talk about himself. He just posts pictures of himself.




Travis

I wouldn't bother with any of that schit. Let them use the .223.



Travis

Yeah. Marginally fugking UBER!




Travis

I know the feeling. Some days the .375 H&H doesn't bother me, and others the .223 makes me jumpy. Not necessarily in that order either.

Then I read about skeet shooters who wind up destroyed for flinching and use release triggers because their nervous systems are so battered.

I'm getting the impression that there is no such thing as 'recoil hardening': only a TLV for nervous system tolerance over time.

What's your take?



I think of it more as rekindling the flame of marksmanship by removing background complication. I can work on my field positions instead of spending time managing peripherals and working up loads for many different cartridges. A few good rifles in a few proven, mild-for-calibre cartridges would help me focus more on shooting than playing 'rifle Barbie' with gear.

The gunsmithing thing seems a chore since they are not easy to find and then the wait times are in months. The prices of everything have skyrocketed lately due to weak Canuckabucks, so rebarreling or replacing will cost a mint too. You state that one can lay in the weeds until striking when the right deal comes along, but will my barrel last long enough for that to work out? I think I'd avoid target practice with the .243 just to save money. The hassle seems enough to push one to archery...

I've shot so much rimfire in my life that the thought of a barrel losing accuracy after 1500 rounds seems very expensive regardless.

I've known and hunted with people turned into incurable flinching fools by repeated heavy recoil. Essentially they're shooting addicts.

Like many of us, have also found stock fit makes a big difference. My wife always had a bad time with standard factory stocks, because they're designed for men, who have square shoulders and relatively short necks, while women tend to have more sloping shoulders and longer necks. As a result, the toe of the stock was right in the pocket of Eileen's shoulder, and it hurt when the rifle went off. If she lowered the butt so the pad was fully on her shoulder, her cheek was way above the comb, and hurt when it hit her cheekbone.

Then she had a custom stock made for her, on a light .308. It didn't hurt at all, because the pad is fully on her shoulder and the comb on her cheek. But when I shot the same rifle it's miserable, because I'm a typical guy with square shoulders and a short neck. The recoil pad is too low on my shoulder and the comb bites my cheek.

I'm not particularly recoil sensitive but don't shoot my big kickers unless there's some good reason anymore, and there usually isn't. Have also found it doesn't take nearly as much gun to kill most big game as many hunters believe. A good bullet in the right place does the job. My wife and I have shot plenty of big game animals here in Montana with various .22 centerfires, and so far all the animals died promptly.

I agree completely about stock fit and can relate to sore cheekbones. The Knoxx Spec-Ops recoil absorbent 870 stock punched me in the face whenever I shot it. Going back to conventional was worlds better. The Remington 7600 has a high comb that I think would hurt me. Also, my 18.5" Remington Model Seven reared up on its hind legs and belted me whenever it got the chance. Thumbhole stocks never seem to fit me either - they rap the knuckle on my thumb.

I've seen more than a few friends put the toe of the butt in their shoulder pocket. A childhood friend even put his shotgun in the pocket between his shoulder and bicep. It hurts to watch. I kind of hunch and lean forward as I mount either rifle or shotgun offhand, so I may correct for some drop at comb but it's remarkably consistent if that is happening. I read some Fairbairn/Applegate stuff many decades ago that made me think shooting quickly should work with instinctive responses. Relaxed offhand target shooting with rimfires and .223 is a little different: straight up and down/elbow out, rifle knocked but not aggressively.

But I think I'm lucky. The Winchester Featherweight in .30-06 seemed like a fluffy kitten compared to that Model Seven in .308. Featherweights point like shotguns for me - I can look at something, raise and mount the rifle with eyes closed, and the cross hairs will be right where I was looking. The McMillan Compact Hunter fits about the same. Same thing happens with Beretta 686s and Remington 870s. I am very lucky to have such fine designs fit me so well. Winchester Sporter stocks also fit, but don't have the same balance as the Featherweight.

Strangely, I find myself looking across the rib with a Browning double, which is too bad as I really like them too.

I also think that more barrel length is a good thing as muzzle blast is jarring to me. I don't like it when someone shows up at the range next to me with a 16" AR15, but when they are 20" or longer they don't seem to bother me. I hate shorties - too loud! I go plugs and muffs when shooting and it still bugs me.

Reasonable weight seems to help too. I had a 24" push feed Model 70 Westerner in .270 with walnut and a blind magazine that was way nicer to shoot than the Model Seven. But I still think fit was just as if not more important than 5.5 inches of barrel and a half pound. The Winchesters come straight back. The Model Seven gave a bit more drama.

So for me, stock fit, barrel length and reasonable weight all seem to play in that order.

On cartridges: I want to include proficiency with the .308/.30-06 on up as I used to work in bear country, and would like to keep that skill set. We carried 12 gauges before (My first round of sporting clays someone remarked at how quickly I handled the pump for a newbie. Scored 36 IIRC. Funny how the ground targets broke more often! ), but now I think I'd be happier with a rifle at short range as Brennekes are hard to get here and ordinary Fosters leave me a little worried. Way easier to find factory .30-06, .338 WM or .375 H&H that would do just fine. Pepper spray, bangers and firearm. I probably won't shoot the .375 H&H prone, but that's not what I bought it for.

For centerfire rifles most folks could get through life very easily with a 223 and a 308, both have tons of load data and components available, there are relatively inexpensive over the counter loads available if you don't handload. The 308 is easy to download to a reasonable recoil level if you handload. Although I think that you will find yourself shooting the 223 more than the 308 and you will never miss having a 243.

drover

That's even worse.....

This is the genius level reply, unless you are getting a whole lot more % interest in your passbook savings, CD's and other convertible investment vehicles, guns are a GREAT investment, if you buy them right in the 1 st place. Put it in the back of the safe next to your stack of $50 bills,phkk minimizing. You asked. Magnum Man

Your frankness and candor humbles me and makes me feel unworthy. As a result I will now religiously follow your posts.

I got rid of a .243 once.. I got a good one back in the fold, and won't make that mistake again.

I don't understand folks that sell guns.

Having said that, how does it compare?

How many rounds to wear out a .243 barrel vs say a 30.06?

Better than Browning maybe, but even then, not as scenic.

Sycamore

My web-gleaned perception is about 1500 vs 3500 before really noticeable accuracy loss. Very roughly half.

Skatchewan,

How long a .243 barrel lasts depends on how you use it, and your standard of accuracy. I shot out the barrel of my first .243 in less than 1500 rounds because back in those days it was popular as a "combination cartridge," for everything from prairie dogs to big game. I shot it pretty hot on PD's before learning that .243's don't last long that wasy, and there are much better rounds for shooting hundreds of rodents a day. But when I saw "shot out," it still shot well enough for most casual deer hunters.

Target shooters report 1500-2500 rounds with the .243, depending on the particular target game and barrel.

The two rounds several have suggested philthygeezer use instead are the .223 Remington and .308 Winchester. I have seen .223's that had shot more than 10,000 rounds, mostly at prairie dogs, that were still consistently killing prairie dogs at several hundred yards. And a .308 barrel will also last far longer than a .243 barrel even when the standard is target accuracy.

For me, thanks to all the above input, I think that .223 and .308 will be my centrefire target cartridges. The others will be hunting and/or bear deterrent rifles if spending a lot of time afield in remote areas again. I would like to practice with all of them, but the .223 and .308 will be the starch in my diet.

After more reading, I think I would be better off building or buying a single shot Savage in 6BR than owning a .243. Sounds like a nice cartridge. I also like the idea of the 6x45mm wildcat since it seems a simple rebarrel of any .223 should allow the magazine to function.

But then I look back at the .223 and realize it would fill the same niche at far less cost when shooting from field positions.

I ridiculed my cousin's little 243 forever as a worthless coyote only rifle.

But I picked up a cheap Savage as a loaner / kid rifle to get youngsters, women and rookies started. The darn thing shoots everything well with almost no recoil, with a rookie hunter it killed a nice buck on its first trip to the woods. I smack 16 oz. water bottles at 200 yards from field positions and my wife likes shooting it.

I still think it is a good out to 500 yard coyote rifle but it is much more useful than what I imagined. As an extra rifle a 243 is quite handy to have in the safe.

I would not get rid of a nice .243. They are so versatile, and you do not have to hot-rod them and ruin a barrel. I have had one for many years. Target and varmints, and maybe a deer hunt once in awhile....while my .270 does the majority of the hunting chores. I even load whimpy rounds for the .270 to punch paper...quite enjoyable at 2500fps with 130 or 140gr. projectiles. Enjoy with whatever choice you make!

I have a .243 Win and a .223. I bought the .243 cause I couldn't find any .223 supplies. Nice gun but Id sooner shoot paper with a .223 and go get my .270 Win for deerNbear.. Not much use for the .243 Win, but it is a nice caliber.

Thanks for the reply John. I have a .243, have no intention of loading bullets lighter than 95 gr for anything. What little coyote hunting I do (no real small varmints here) I do with the hunting loads. I feel this helps me get used to the gun, speed, lead required. I have a few other guns and so maybe put 100 rounds per year through the .243.

So in that case, it is a 20 year gun before I see much change, likely. I can certainly live with that.

I am down to .223, .260, .280, and .30-'06.

.223 because it's usually available, is easy to handload, and has so many interesting firearms chambered for it. I prefer PPU 55gr as plinking/training ammo, then use the brass for reloading. I've given up on .22LR as a training chambering.

.260 because it outperforms the .308 so much better at distances out past 500yd, or at least it has for me in 1000yd F Open. Brass is not such a big deal if you neck down 7-08. Lately I'm setting up to try out Hornady 7-08 brass.

.280 because it's a powerhouse deer chambering, and also because it extends extreme range a good bit beyond where the .260 cries 'Uncle' doesn't erode throats as badly as the 6.5-284, and gets out there with bullets that don't generate magnum-like recoil. A reconstructed sternum an make such issues a bit more crucial.

.30-'06 because I'm simply never going to give up my Garand, and also because three members of my family, plus myself, are married to it for dear season. I have a 168 SMK load that shoots like FGMM, and its cousin (substituting the 165 SGK)shoots 1 MOA at 200yd out of my M70.

Nothing bigger because if I need something bigger than what I'm already shooting, at age 69, I could never drag it out anyway.

I keep a nice little Win .94AE Trapper Carbine chambered in .44 Mag for brush hunting, etc.

Greg

PS, after posting, I went back and read about the first 1/3 of the responses to the OP. I had missed a lot.

Backtracking, I feel I need to further explain my preference for the .280 over the .270. It's mostly serendipity. I inherited a gorgeous pair of Ruger 77 MKI's from my Eldest Brother, both .280's, one a sporter and the other a rather rare varmint weight.

While factory loaded ammo appears far more easily available for the .270 than for the .280, the HDY American Whitetail load is a genuine ripsnorter and I have laid in 100rd, which should cover the rest of my expected deer hunting lifespan. Also, the rifles both demonstrate excellent accuracy with handloads and even shoot relatively well with the other's preferred load.

At the time we lost my Brother, he had been exploring the .280 for both medium-to-larger game and as an extended distance target cartridge. I felt that it was an admirable set if goals and decided to carry it further.

I no longer shoot to 1000yd, so I haven't tried bullets heavier than 150gr. But I also firmly believe that whatever the .30-'06 could do with 150r, the .280 could likely do significantly better.

I think the .223 is the most versatile of my choices as long as one keeps one's expectations reasonably conservative (i.e, while I have some nice Federal Fusion 62gr MSR 'deer loads' on hand, I'll still be doing my deer hunting with the larger chamberings).

I am also replacing the bullets on some M855 with Win 64ge Power Points as an experiment, to see if a relatively effective rounds can be salvaged from some of my M855, which is only mediocre accuracy-wise. Doing some deconstruction on (Federal) M855, the powder charges are the most consistent I have ever seen on factory loaded ammunition.

Sounds like you've caught all the way up to the 70's. Kudos.



Travis

TFF!