I'm interested in the 325wsm and have had experience with the 338win mag , there doesn't seem to be a lot in the difference between them are they compairable with 200/225 grain pills or does the win mag leave it for dead?? , I own a 270wsm and love the round , just need a bigger hitter for sambar deer what are people's thoughts?? Thanks big river

I have a 325 wsm really like cartridge and rifle (model 70 extreme weather) but the 325 wsm is headed towards obscurity. It really offers nothing over the 338 win mag minus the recoil the 325 is a lot easier on the shoulder for a lot people. If you reload I would get a 300 WSM and find a good load using a 200gr bullet. When you move up to 220gr bullets in the 325 wsm it falls on its ass and the 338 win mag starts to outshine it with the heavier bullets. So if you are looking to just 200gr bullet I would get a 300 wsm try to find one in a model 70 they have longer mag boxes than the brownings and remingtons.

Big River call me a whimp but I just offloaded my 338 WM because it wasn't pleasant to shoot and for sambar, I figured my 30-06 with 180g bullets was more than adequate.

So a vote for the 30-06 or as suggested above, the 300WSM.

I'm a WSM fanboy, but never bothered to buy a 325WSM because it was dead out of the gate. In your case. I'd either go with the 338 or try a 130gr TSX at over 3200 FPS in your .270 WSM. The WSM load couldn't be good for the Sambars health.

I think the main difference is that in a few years you will still be able to buy 338 ammo. The 325, in my opinion, is one of several recent "fad" calibers. Since rifles will last 75 or 100 years, the companies look for any excuse to get us top thinkthey have somnething new and materially different.

The 325 WSM is a small step down from the 300 WSM and I've yet to figure out why it exists. It is easy to see why it is dying. With the best loads 300 WSM shoots the same bullet weights to exactly the same speeds. You get exactly the same muzzle energy with only .017" greater bullet diameter.

But the same bullet weights in .308 offer much better BC's than in .325 diameter. At as little as 50-100 yards a 200 gr 300 WSM is much better than a 200 gr .325 bullet

I might have to rethink my next buy , the 270 does a great job for me at the moment but wouldn't mind a decent step up in hitting power to keep them at bay might wait awhile and see what happens cheers for the replies

BR,

A .270 Win and a .338 Win Mag make a great pair.

The .270 is great for deer and antelope, and you grab the .338 when you need a real gun.

Just an alternate suggestion...

But if your field experience is actually showing that the 270 is somehow lacking, I would first consider changing to a more effective bullet, rather than assuming that the caliber is the problem.

270 very often gives more dramatic results in my experience, and with half the recoil of the bigger bores.

A 130 GMX moving that fast will handle most tasks quite effectively.

It's harder to find a comparable 8mm bullet selection.

Big River
there were a couple of studies floating around a while back done on thousands of moose in Europe (They call them elk over there, I think) shot with various cartridges from 6.5X55 up to the 375 H&H magnum. There was NO significant difference in how far the animals traveled in any of the cartridges when shot placement was the same. Bases on that, you might be going the wrong way in cartridge size if you want quicker kills. You might want to emulate some of the Alaska crowd that kills big black bears with 223s, and use a smaller round that you can use to surgically remove parts of the central nervous system.
In the back of my mind, I am wondering what a 257 Weatherby Magnum would do to those critters-

Royce

Based on your wording, your study presumes the animal is harvested.

In wild conditions, during rifle season, after the Elk have been bugled poked and smoked for 3 months you can expect your shot opportunities can be few and far between, and the few you do get may be less then idea.

Sure, if you are hunting elk on a gated preserve, a .223 with a 60gr NPT might be all you need. But if you are hunting in the real world, a .338 is a better option.

I'm fine using the 270wsm had great success using 150grain woodleighs and 160 partitions, quick kills , the idea of going bigger is to leave bigger blood trails and just want to use something with abit more whack to mix it up abit sometimes you just want another rifle just cause , I don't see the sense in buying another similar.

I might even get a true medium bore yet and get a 375

Bigriver
AHA! The truth comes out! Laughing here, can perfectly understand that- Have you considered the 9.3X62? Never shot one myself, but lots of reputable people on the Campfire speak well of it, both in terms of reasonable recoil and game performance.

AntelopeSniper
I am not sure where the evidence is that says a 338 will kill an elk quicker than a 270 WSM. I have seen some elk shot with 338 and didn't see any blood trail from the 210 Partitions.

The 9.3 crossed my mind but I'm after a bigger bore diameter than a .30 cal but still want a rifle that's flat enough to easily shoot out to 300m, the 9.3x 62 is alittle slow for my liking

Winchester engineers, at least, thought the 8mm bore had the advantage over the 338 in the shorter round...the sales team not as much.

I've always found the 8mm to be effective enough...my enthusiasm for the 325 is moderated somewhat by not seeing any real advantage in the field over the 30 cal, and is easily trumped by the enormous number of bullet choices for the latter.

So as long as you can get your hands on the better quality bullets you want to use, the 325 WSM will do exactly what you are asking.

I have a 300 WSM...it hits just as hard up close and is much better at long range with softer recoil...and more great bullet choices than I would want to test.

But then a few of my friends who have built custom long range rifles around the 270 WSM say the same thing about the advantages their 270s have over my 300.

With the expensive semi-custom bullets they are using they do have a point, and their longer barrels can send that little 130 GMX out at 3500fps if they want to emphasize it.

There's plenty of horsepower on tap with any of the WSMs... I think the performance you end up with is more about the bullet you choose and where you put it.

Hitting something hard out to 300 yards, or meters as you put it, can be done with a cast bullet from a 45-70 with irons, at least until they take your lever actions away.

Bigriver; not a gun writer but a fan of the .325 WSM. Having several 8x57s in the house I have always had a good selection of 8mm projectiles on hand. Years ago I was looking to buy an old parker hale in .300 win mag to rebarrel to 8mm round based on the .338 win mag case when the .325 WSM hit the scene. So of course I purchased the a .325 instead. As you have already been told there is not a great selection of 8mm projectiles but there is an adequate selection. I have used the .325 from whitetail doe up to bull eland and it works just dandy. Ranges on game have been 8 yards to 375 yards no worries at all. Hitting silhouettes at the range out to 500 metres / 550 yards no problem. On a trip to South Africa this April / May I took my .325, my tracker told me "that is a strong rifle"

Are there "better" choices than the .325, sure there always is a "better" choice to every calibre. If you do buy one, get a lot of brass (you can always neck up .300 WSM brass), bullets will always be available because our hunting brethren in europe like the 8mm projectiles.

Bigger bullets make bigger holes, bigger holes tend to bleed more, the .325 wsm is flat enough shooting for your stated needs, our friends at Nosler, Barnes, Swift and Woodleigh all make excellent 8mm bullets. If the .325 WSM calls to you buy one load her up and rock on you will not be disappointed.

All the best.
GRF

Is there a reason you just don't go with the 338 Win Mag and say the 210-TSX or TTSX if contemplating that level of power? I myself would choose the 300 WSM over the 325 but you might even go best premium bullet in your 270 WSM and get the job done tidily.

I did have the 338 Win Mag or at least i did until my son took it home with him and have never owned a 325 WSM, but i will take my 338-06 Ack over both, if given the choice .

That's because you are using the wrong bullet.

Load it with some 200gr NBT's around 3k, and go try it yourself. If you have a blood trail, expect it to be very wide and very short.

TopCat,

From what I heard from people in the industry, the .325 WSM came about because Winchester couldn't match the ballistics of the .338 Winchester Magnum when using the WSM case. And they had claimed they could match .300 Winchester Magnum ballistics with the .300 WSM, which was true ONLY because the common SAAMI muzzle velocity with 180-grain bullets in the .300 Winchester at the time was only 2960 fps. (Since then there have been two other SAAMI-acceptable velocity levels created for the .300 Winchester Magnum, both higher.)

Winchester claimed that the .300 WSM was able to match the ballistics of the .300 Winchester Magnum due to the magic shape of the WSM case. This was BS. Nobody in any ballistics lab has ever found a smaller case that can match the velocities of a bigger case thanks to any magic case shape. Instead it was due to the somewhat wimpy .300 Winchester factory muzzle velocity.

But the Winchester publicity BS also forced them into a corner with the cartridge many shooters expected, a .338 WSM. They found the .338 WSM case could NOT match .338 Winchester Magnum velocities with 250-grain bullets, because the long bullets took up too much powder room. Also, due to the short magazine, many existing .338 bullets had to be seated too deep inside the .338 WSM case the ogive to remain outside the case neck.

So Winchester side-stepped the whole deal by claiming they'd developed a cartridge equal to the .338 Winchester Magnum using 8mm bullets. This also turned out to be BS, because the only factory-loaded bullet over 200 grains was a Power Point that didn't penetrate nearly as well as the premium 200-grainers also used in the .325. (I know this partly because a hunting companion brought a .325 WSM to South Africa for a month-long hunt I did in 2007. Within a few days his PH told me he had to switch to the .375 H&H he also brought along, with 300-grain Trophy Bonded Federal loads, because the 220 Power Point simply wasn't penetrating deeply enough on larger plains game animals like zebra.)

As a result the .325 turned out to basically be a .300 WSM with slightly fatter bullets, not a .338 with a wide range of bullet weights up to deep-penetrating 250's. And anybody who looked at the downrange ballistics found 180 and 200-grain .300 WSM loads caught up to the .325 180 and 200-grain loads within about 300-400 yards.

That doesn't mean the .325 doesn't work. It does, just like the .300 WSM, or any cartridge with 180-200 grain bullets of around .30 caliber at those velocities. But that doesn't mean it somehow matches the .338 Winchester Magnum, any more than the .300 WSM will match .300 Winchester Magnum muzzle velocities due its magic case shape.

John, excellent and honest answer.

Thanks!

I should also add that the case shape of the .300 does have one advantage: The short, wide powder column results in more consistent pressures and velocities than those of longer .300 magnums. This allows it to be loaded up to slightly higher average pressure, without the highest-velocity individual shots spiking too much above the average. It also tend to result in finer accuracy, but in the average factory rifle this isn't as evident as in custom rifles.

Why, especially never having owned a 325 WSM? Just curious and not trying to argue.

The 325 WSM is a good round, I see it working great for those who want a bit more power in something a bit off the beaten path. I was strongly considering buying another 325 WSM to replace a departed one but in the end chose another old friend in the 308 Norma Mag which will be completed this year. A 300 WSM or Win Mag would be more practical but neither would be as fun as either of the more obscure rounds. Along with the 325 WSM look carefully at the 35 Whelen or 9.3x62, both powerful rounds that don't kick too bad but kill well.....

The 308 Norma mag offers major cool factor that the other's don't. As for the 325 WSM, when they first came out Winchester claimed it would make the 300 win mag and 338 win mag obsolete because the 325 WSM shot just as flat as the 300 and had as much knock down energy as the 338 magnum. To me, it's just a short fat 8mm born with a lot of hype and sinking knee deep in bs....

Excellent post J...

Because I just like Hornady Interlocks, the idea of the 325WSM with the 195g Interlock just appeals to me. But having said all that, my 30-06 with the 180g version is almost as much gun and plenty for the mighty sambar IMO.

Oh Oh...you mentioned a metric on a 'murrican Shootin Forum!

It's amazing, the almost hatred for anything 8mm here. I like my 8 Mausers and combos; they kill just fine if one actually takes the time and energy and skill to work in on the game. That's a big part of hunting in my estimation.

Moving on to the 325 WSM I see the same people griping about it and mentioning it's an 8mm. Well...YEAH! It is. So what?

I've grown to like mine quite a bit, but I don't shoot much past 300 yards out of choice and respect for the quarry. A lot can go wrong between me and 300 yards with far greater possibilities after that. The 325 WSM is a good hard hitting round to that range and hits darned hard on in. If it's not your cup of tea, put away your lemons and move on. I particularly have an aversion to the 338. It smacks hard for something with bullets under .375-.410; I've had two and wondered why.

The 325WSM isn't a 338 and never will be. Winchester krappped in the nest on that round by alluding to it being almost a 338. I like it because it isn't a 338 and doesn't jolt me excessively, while it does hammer bigger animals well.

What's my favorite round and rifle? It's a 1936 Model 70 30-06 that is now a bit too heavy for me to cart up our mountains. My very light Kimber 325 WSM isn't too heavy, and it's proven to be my best all around hunting rifle for what, where, and how I now hunt.

I guess the 325WSM is the next generation's 264 Win Mag (or should I call it the 6.5mm Win Belted?).

I like them all to some degree and don't want to step on toes.

I don't understand the whole 8 mm hatred either, it is not a bad place to be when it comes to elk, moose and bear guns. Truth be told I like the 8x57 too and that will likely end up making an appearance in this household. There is one advantage the 325 has over the 300 WSM is in factory loads, the 300 tops out at 180's but the 325 goes up to 220 gr. I do realize some of the factory 220's aren't that good and it is debatable whether a 220 will kill better than a 180 gr 300 WSM load. The 200 gr factory 325 WSM loads are good though.

Should also mention I have bypassed the 338's as well preferring 30's on the smaller side and 358 on the other, bigger than 35 I just don't need anymore although they are great rounds for those who like to use them.

[/quote][/b]

Why, especially never having owned a 325 WSM? Just curious and not trying to argue. [/quote]


I suppose I've been sucked into the compact rifle marketing speal and the 325 is the biggest in the wsm range , I've falling in love with the 270wsm , I brought that because it gave quite an edge over the standard 270win especially with the heavier pills and it's lived upto the marketers claims I believe. I want a new rifle that will take me to the edge of comfort, shooting, carrying and hitting power, the 325 seemed like a good start to start asking questions .

I still don't buy into Winchesters claim on the 338WSM, I have one and after load development. I'm getting over 2850 with a 225gr accubond. Oh and the recoil in a Winchester model 70 featherweight is nothing just a big push.

You are the OP. It seems you are trying to ask our permission on something you've already decided upon. In the end, it's you that has to be happy. I went through the WSM craze/phase and eventually dumped them all and went back to the old tried and true. If you want a good all around cartridge that's going to get it done, check out the 30-06. It's been around for something like 109 years, so it has a pretty good track record... . If you are looking for something different and a little bigger, there's always the 338-06, 35 Whelen, and my favorite, the 9.3x62mm. The short fat case doesn't offer enough good to outweigh the bad as far as I'm concerned. You ask, "the bad"? They don't feed as well and you have less in the magazine over standard cartridges. Some even have a very hard time with a full magazine and getting 1 into the chamber (example: 3+1). I ended up just hunting with 3 rounds in the rifles. I had 2 Winchester model 70's that were that way. I also must add that in your response, "I've falling in love with the 270wsm , I brought that because it gave quite an edge over the standard 270win especially with the heavier pills and it's lived upto the marketers claims I believe", it seems like you are a very long range shooter? The average person will never notice such claims, until after about 500 yards. Up until that mark those 2 cartridges that you are comparing are like "2 peas in a pod". Coming from a person that has BTDT, buy the 325 WSM (you have your mind made up anyway) and report back after using it for a couple years. However, If you have never used standard cartridges, then you have no basis for a comparison though. For my type of hunting/use I got rid of the WSM's because they offered no benefit, and actually shorted me in more ways than 1...

I almost bought a 325 WSM several years ago; then I realized that my 30-06 (appropriately loaded) will do anything I ask of it or need. My investment in 30-06 dies and cases and rifles do not need to be replicated by an obsolescent cartridge.

Some one needs a hug... This argument can used for a lot of cartridges out their. Why get a 264 when you can get a 7 mag and shoot the same weight bullets in the 7 mag why get a 270 when you can get a 280 why get a 25-06 when you can get a 270 the list can go on forever. What sold me on the 325 WSM I saw how it performed on a big ol bull moose those 200gr accubonds mushroomed perfect man I was sold and went and bought one. But now I look at it 338 win mag do the same job. Sometimes we want something new to try out and it looses its lust real quick. For me the 325 still has a use to me.

I haven't made my mind up at all mate . There has been some good points brought up such as the 300wsm with heavier equalling hitting power in as little as 50 to 100 yards witch hasn't fallen on deaf ears , the 270wsm has roughly a 300fps edge over the 270win with a 150grain pill which is what I'd call a real difference and noticeable in the field. I've owned bog standard cals such as the 3006 and yes they do the job but I do like to be a little different from the pack at times I don't see anything wrong with that ??? I haven't experienced feedin trouble with the wsm I currently own and can live with a rifle that is a 3+1 but I'm also listening to these issues that are being raised , other options I am considering are the 35 sambar wildcat or maybe even the 375 ruger if I don't believe it to be a big enough step up in oomph ! , if I found the right rifle I could just go the 338 win mag but I've been there and want to try something new once more... I think your just being alittle presumptuous with your post...

Bigriver; I found the 195 grain hornady to be a little too "soft" at .325 wsm velocities when used in the 100-150 yard range, never shot anything with it close in but the results at the aforementioned distances in my mind relegated the 195 grain hornady to the 8x57s in the house. I have killed more game with the .325 than any other calibre, the .25-06 as second. I have had zero feeding issues with the .325.

As riflemen we live in glorious times there are so many opportunities to experiment and try different rifles and calibres. In a restaurant or pub one of my criteria for ordering beer, wine and food is "i haven't had it before". Sometimes experiments becomes favorites, others become I wont do that again. For me the .325 has become a favorite, the .280 AI an I won't do that again, the 6.5x55 and .260 rem are ongoing love affairs. These tend to be personal experiences that may be diametrically opposed to experiences of others. If we were all smart and practical we would have a .30-06, a 12 gauge and a .22 LR and nothing else. We would all drive F150s or Chevy Impalas or Toyota corollas. Where is the fun in that.

Bigriver; enjoy the search for your new "heavier rifle". There are always those driven by the extreme practical, there are some of us driven by hey that looks like fun.

I hope you have a glorious weekend. Happy Independence day to all in the US. GRF

Excellent response. I also have a 325wsm. Bought it as a combination birthday gift to myself, and a tribute to my Dad who hunted most of his life with an 8mm Mauser.
I am still experimenting with mine. So far one Mule deer buck killed with one 180gr TSX.
Complete pass through. Huge damage in boiler room. Zero tracking.
I am currently playing with the 200 gr. Accubond and 200 gr. TSX. Both are showing some promise, with a slight lead by the TSX. I have a great load for the 160gr. TTSX. Blazing speeds. Undecided as to what I'll take hunting this fall.
My rifle is a Winchester Extreme Weather. Great feeding. No issues at all.
Good Luck with whatever you choose!

As of now with my 325 WSM I use regular ol 200gr hot-cor with a max book load of IMR 4007 and I killed one nice caribou. I have a bunch 200gr tsx and 200gr partition's I need to work up a load using those but those 200gr speers shoot very well.

Bigriver,

The .270 WSM does not have a 300 fps advantage over the .270 Winchester, at least not when both cartridges are loaded to the same pressure, in the same length barrel. If you are getting 300 fps more in yours, it’s because you’re loading the .270 WSM to higher pressures or the .270 Winchester to lower pressures, or both. This is backed up by all pressure-tested loading data, plus the 4-to-1 Rule.

If you’re expecting similar magical results from the .325, you may get them. But most handloaders won’t.

On average I'm getting about 70-100 fps more out of my 270WSM than with the standard 270 from 24" barrels.

I got a bunch of Nosler factory 325 WSM 200gr AccuBond ammo for a give-away price and have been using it. I can't beat it by hand loading so far, and it gives right at the factory claimed 2,950 fps with good groups...around 1" out of the Kimber.

I well remember the marketing--Winchester could just as well named them the WBSM's.

Edited to add, not that they do not serve well but they are not quite equal to their corresponding "long" magnum counterparts, all things being equal. For example, I remember specifically, with the 270 WSM, the Winchester advertisement showed this WSM equaling and beating the 270 Weatherby at four hundred yards with a sleek, high BC bullet compared to a bullet with the BC of a tomato out of the Weatherby.

A little hyperbole there but the point is a real one.

Among my little group of enthusiastic friends, there has been a long parade of different calibers and chamberings that have been experimented with over the years in an attempt to find the optimum round that brings the most advantages on live targets in the field.

Mostly all in custom rifles where issues of economy and practicality were not really considerations, and all of them were different, and they all worked well with good bullets.

Like I mentioned previously, I like the 300 WSM for a few reasons, but a 30-06 is similar when loaded to it's potential...and I do have a lot more of those around here..:) I admit to a bias toward 30 cal, but I don't think it's the best.

The 6.5 is a contender, and I think the 7 WSM is closest to being the most perfectly balanced in most respects, and would be my choice for the "optimum" chambering; but my buddies are real impressed with their 270 WSMs, even though it was first looked upon as about the last choice, and solely because of the performance advantage it gives at all ranges over the others!

It gives the most downrange performance they can get for the cost in recoil, and can be run comfortably without a brake in a lighter rifle, and they really like that. Even the slower twist barrels that are commonly available in that bore diameter haven't proven to be a handicap. There are less great bullet choices available, but those that are available are very good and you only need one!

Looking back a decade ago, anyone even suggesting that the 270WSM is where they would end up would have been laughed off the range and forced to buy beer.

This is the reason why there are such stern warnings on this forum not to shoot the donor!

I could make do with any of these rounds, and all will do stellar work if the same amount of intelligent consideration would be directed toward bullet choice as is given to the hole in the back end of the barrel we call a chamber!

I remember that article. They may have been pulling the wool over some guys' eyes, but didn't fool anyone who knew a thing or 2 about ballistic coefficient and downrange performance. I remember having a good laugh about that particular article. I'm trying to think if it were JRS or Boddington who wrote it...Maybe neither one and I probably still have it in my collection. I was just reading an article earlier today about the 270 and 7mm wsm that was written by MR. Sundra and he explained how the original WSM's (pre production rifles) were all the same length, but someone demonstrated how you could load a 7mm WSM into a 270 WSM and Winchester quickly redesigned the case and gave it a hair more length or pushed the shoulder out a bit more. If some guys want to believe it is a magical design, they have that right. Some guys still like lucky charms too, cause they are magically delicious...

The claim I always liked was that WSM's fit in lighter, handier rifles, yet the rifles kicked less than "conventional" magnums.

Don't get me wrong. I've killed a bunch of big game with the .270 and .300 WSM's, from pronghorns to big bull elk. They definitely work just as well as any other cartridges of the same caliber, but they're not magic.

How true. Everyone wants to think their round is magic but it does the same thing 2 dozen other rounds will do.