Looking to identify maker of this M98 action (yes, I know the number looks like a 93, but the action was highly polished and I'm certain it's an M98).

Gonna need more pictures than that.
Paul B.

Well how are you sure it's a 98? It appears to be a small ring as there appears to be no step in the action wall to the ring. If it is a 98 then I would venture in my humble mauser knowledge it may be a Turk as they were I believe small ring actions. I'm sure a real mauser expert will be along to give you the real scoop.

This is about all there is that survived the polishing. Is that a "T" peeking out under the front scope base?

Right side front receiver:


Left side front receiver:


Did that help?

WW1, or pre-WW1, vintage Imperial German small ring 98. The proof marks look like Amberg arsenal proofs to me.

The action is from a KAR 98, a shorter version of the WWI Gewehr 98 infantry rifle. The KAR was used by artillery and cavalry troops in WWI and became the basis for the later KAR98k of WWII.

KAR stands for "Karabiner" (carbine).

czech1022-
Your rifle appears to me to be a Mauser Kar98, which was a carbine form of the K98 manufactured between about 1898 and 1905. It was superseded by the Kar98a, with a slightly longer barrel to minimize the muzzle flash that occurred with the Kar98.

The Kar98 and Kar98a were made with the small ring receiver. However, it retained the large-ring threads of the Infantry rifle.

Given the "T" peeking out from the Weaver mount, it is almost certain that the original rifle was made by the factory at Erfurt.

Here's a handy reference: [color:#0000FF]The Original Kar. 98[/color]

--Bob

Great! Thanks for the help, everyone!

Momento!

I'm not convinced. Things are just NOT right.

I'm not convinced that it is German and I'm not convinced that it is an M98. I have lots of Mausers.

What caliber is it ?

My problem is inadequate photos. There should be a top view with imprinted proofs on top of the receiver. The lettering in the photo is NOT German. The proof number is clearly 93 NOT 98. There is a Spanish 93 Mauser but this doesn't look Spanish.

Mauser licensed countries all over the world.

For the moment I consider this firearm NOT yet identified.

The Imperial German Eagle and the row of three proof marks look too German not to be German. In the row of three proof marks with the crowns over them, the one on the left looks more like an Amberg proof than an Erfurt proof, but without holding the rifle in hand and inspecting it with my own eyes, I can't tell for sure.

More pictures of the entire rifle, including details of the action in 360-degrees and bolt would certainly help narrow it down a bit

If it's got a 98 bolt with shroud and third lug, it's going to be some kind of small-ring Mauser, and with that stamping by the thumb cut, pre-Weimar Gothic.

czech1022-

Would it be possible for you to remove the scope mount base on the receiver ring and post a photo of the markings that will be exposed? While I'm pretty sure it's an Erfurt product, I may have been mistaken in calling it a Kar98 receiver, rather than a Kar98a. The date be as late as 1918.

Here's an image from an unaltered rifle of what the markings might look like.

Thanks.
--Bob
.

.

I"ll remove the scope base and get some pics tomorrow.

This is my guess too. The "T" sticking out from the base is part of the ERFURT logo. It's clearly a KAR98a and possibly a Kar98AZ. These were made by Amberg, Danzig, Erfurt and Spandau. Since ERFURT is the only one to end with a T, well.....I think ERFURT is a safe guess. My best SWAG is it will have a 1915-1917 date code since that's when the majority of them were made. Since it only has one date code and no "dirty bird" on it I believe it was out of commission before the Treaty of Versailles making it an unofficial WW1 only rifle. Some were re-dated after the war and accepted under the treaty.

From the proof marks it shows it failed it's first inspection and was sent back to be re-examined and was later accepted. On the proof marks the letters below the crowns are only the guy who inspected it, like the inspector #6 tag you find in your new fruit of the loom underwear. The "RC" below the crown on the top of the first proof shows it failed it's initial hardness inspection and was sent back to the Revisor Committee for improvement. These actions are case hardened so it wasn't a real big deal. The first inspection was for hardness testing, the second was for assembly testing and the last is for function testing.

Upon further reflection, and research, I'll have to concede that it is a 98. Further, much points to it being a KAX98 and that it is quite likely an Erfurt product. *( The stamping on the receiver says so). It is strange typeface though not like many other stampings on German made Mauser rifles. I suppose that some little unknown game changer could pop up though and surprise everyone.

It does get tricky and complicated because there is much history, various calibers, various dates of manufacture, small ring, large ring, refurbished, modified by others, proofs scrubbed rubbed and replaced. If it has all matching parts its probably an original.

Cabela's has some in their Gun Library advertised for sale at $619.99 to $950 in 7.92x57mm and 8x57mm. A private seller in Texas is asking $450.

I gave a Swedish King Gustaf 6.5mm and a Serbian Post WW1I M98 to my grandson a couple of months ago. He was ecstatic and invited all of his friends over. I also gave him my "Mauser Military Rifles of The World" book and that left me at some disadvantage.

Been really interesting to see you guys noodle this one out.

Sorry it took so long, but I have full pics for all of those Sherlock Holmes out there who have been puzzling out the mystery for me.

First of all, it's a full-on custom, with an exceptional Fajen stock, Mc Gowen 22" barrel in 6.5x55, jewelled bolt with nicely forged bolt handle, Dayton-Traister low-swing Mark II safety and what appears to be a replacement trigger (but I can't see any mfg stamp to identify it).

To those who requested full pics, here are left and right side views:





I LOVE the wood in this stock! You might not be able to see it in the pics, but the inletting is so precise that I couldn't get the thinnest of knife blades between the wood and the metal anywhere along the barrel/receiver channel.



Bolt shroud to prove it's an M98:



Bottom metal with same serial number as receiver:



and finally, for all those military firearms historians out there...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.



Do the years pictured here this make it a Kar98a, rather than the Kar98?

My NRA Mauser Rifles book shows those exact receiver markings except my picture has a manufacture date of 1918 under ERFURT which is the name of the arsenal. Says it's a German Model 98a carbine. The "1920" marking presumably indicates date of acceptance by Reichswehr,the 100,000 man German Army of the post WW1 period.

Yes and no. the original Kar98 was was dropped in 1905 but after the war they were all renamed either Kar98a or Kar98b. Yours being a 1916 was either an A or an AZ. After the war the Treaty Of Versaille allowed the Germans to keep something like 18000 Kar98's in service and all of these have the 1920 stamp on them. A lot of these rifles stayed in service through WW2!

BTW, Neato rifle.

The rifle was obviously manufactured by Erfurt in Germany, but the crown looks to be the Swedish Crown.

Thumbs up -- that's a good "fate" for that rifle.

Thanks for the additional photos. I had a military original (but "arsenal refinished") Erfurt 98 for a number of years, which had 1915 as the date.

Why the hole in the stock by the cheekpiece?

You have to have someplace to put your thumb!

Aha !!!

Just some observations, but first beautiful rifle. Congrats.

My very first rifle back when I was a young Guy was a Fabrique Nationale Belgian Mauser 22-250 barreled action $136.. I had it re-chambered to 25-06 $30. I bought a Herter's, excellent burl walnut, semi finished blank $45 and completed it myself then glass bedded it. And installed double set triggers myself $25. It would shoot 5/8" groups all day. I even took moose with it.

I knew that there was something lurking in the woodwork when you said you would pull the scope mount. Military Mauser 98 bolt throw is up vertical. A normal modern scope can't be mounted without modification. So your bolt had to be re-shaped. Some old German sniper rifles did have primitive scopes with long eye relief.

So what can we call/identify this rifle ? It isn't a Mauser M98 by any means according to the family tree since the only original part remaining is the receiver. There must be a description but I can't name it here other than to place it into the category of "custom rifle". Not original, not obsolete.

So, again, what is the caliber? Why doesn't it have the classy and accurate double set triggers ?

(Emphasis added)
--Bob

Turks have been built on both small ring actions, and large ring actions though with small ring threads.

Thanks for re-confirming the caliber.

I'm a very old and very big fan of Mauser's. I still consider the M98 as the best action ever created. And I'm delighted that the creativity, ingenuity and mindset of some gun lovers and gunsmiths are refurbishing and modernizing the old rifles and receivers.

Now the plot thickens. Even in the face of the proof marks in the photos there are new questions.

1. Caliber 6.5 x 55 mm. That's Swedish King Gustaf.
2. Someone observed that the "crown" stamping looked Swedish.

Some Swedish Mauser's were made in Sweden and some in Germany and some privately. The practice of Swedes was to rank the guns by stamping categories and the crown meant approval while an X meant disapproval.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Mauser

http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/mats/marks_mauser_rifle.htm

Here also are photos of Mauser proof marks. The Crown shows in some.

https://www.google.com/search?q=swedish+mauser+proof+marks&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS512US512&tbm=isch&imgil=EAJqWs6ptfAAAM%253A%253Bn6tlX0XrE-Gt_M%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.msgo.com%25252Fthreads%25252Fswedish-mauser-markings.31496%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=EAJqWs6ptfAAAM%253A%252Cn6tlX0XrE-Gt_M%252C_&biw=1024&bih=395&ved=0CC8QyjdqFQoTCJXfo6KB_cYCFULVHgodHsQH7Q&ei=5ge3VZXUDsKqe56In-gO&usg=__ltN21BGBBbzPzm50BS5vIUCWVGw%3D#imgrc=EAJqWs6ptfAAAM%3A&usg=__ltN21BGBBbzPzm50BS5vIUCWVGw%3D

So? The ID is not yet 100% confirmed.

On a personal note I would have liked to have my Swedish King Gustaf customized and modernized but it was from an estate collection and in more than very good condition with all matching numbers. It also came with various soldier field accessories such as bayonette, cleaning kit, ammo packs, lube kit. I couldn't break it up and destroy it's original collector values as an authentic.

The bolt shield is 100% 98. Its an Imperial German small ring 98 action with a McGowen after-market barrel. That fact that the barrel is chambered in 6.5x55 is the only Swedish thing about it.

Not really. Most if not all the Erfurt Kar98's had the crown stamped on them. There is nothing special about the crown.



Yes, it was. Not only confirmed but much of the rifles history has also been documented through the date and proof stamps.

The fact that the rifle now wears an aftermarket barrel that's chambered in a 6.5X55 only shows that the guy who had this rifle customized had the good sense not to chamber it in a high pressure round.

BTW, Sweden only imported 5000 Kar98's and they were all chambered in 8X63 which required magazine box alterations. None were chambered for the 6.5X55. They originally bought them from Germany chambered in 8X57 but Sweden didn't like the 8X57 and reworked all of them.

I found a Swedish Mauser stampings website:

https://www.google.com/search?q=swedish+crown+on+mauser+rifles&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS512US512&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CC8Q7AlqFQoTCLWTzbnm_cYCFUlYPgoduKgKYQ&biw=1024&bih=395#imgdii=mfiv1xO0_DzYpM%3A%3Bmfiv1xO0_DzYpM%3A%3BLjnGwPDQxXLcWM%3A&imgrc=mfiv1xO0_DzYpM%3A

Don't know if it will open for you. There is one photo of the Swedish King Gustaf crown and it is stamped Erfurt'.

A also found evidence of armory's all over the place that produced the M98.

The crown on the receiver of this rifle is VERY compelling. I found a lot of information about that crown. There are three variations identifying manufacturers. Apparently no-one except the Swedes stamped the crown.

It may be tough for some to swallow but the preponderance of the evidence is pointing convincingly that this receiver is indeed Swedish King Gustaf manufactured in the Erfurt Armory, Germany.

Of course an alternative could be that we are being tricked but I don't want to go there and I really do not see any motive.

We are probably all spinning our wheels without being able to hold the rifle and examine it, its stampings, serial number and parts numbers.

If you'll do a little more research you'll find this is far from the truth.

I did open the page you linked and it's nothing but google pictures. If you'll bother to go to the actual website from the picture there is a lot info on it about the date marks and the 1920 marks above the original date. What you won't find is any mention of it being a Swedish rifle.

From the page you posted a link to:
1920 is not actually a date "per se". "1920" is the ownership stamp of the Weimar Republic. It was added to all former Imperial arms set aside under the strict limitations of the Versailles Treaty for use by the severely limited post-war German Armed Forces.

1920 refers to the year the weapons program came into effect after the bickering and in-fighting amongst the allies in 1919 to determine how severely to hamstring the new German gov't. Of course, we all know they went to far and basically set europe up for the next war 20-odd years later. hindsight is, after all, 20/20.

Was Sweden bound by the Versailles Treaty? I don't think so.

Do the majority if not all of the Erfurt Kar98's have the crown crest? Yes, they do.

Here is the google picture page you tried to link.
google pictures

Here is the actual page the picture you are going by is from:
The explanation of the picture you saw.

If you'll bother to read the actual page it will give you a lot of useful information.

The Sweds NEVER built 1898 style military Mauser actions. Sweds made small ring pre-1898 style actions during their entire production run, 1894+/- through 1942/43. When Husqvarna built sporting rifles on large ring actions after WW2, they imported them from FN in Belgium.

I think that you are over-reaching, reading things into this that just aren't there.

Military style m98 actions were never manufactured in Sweden, but some Swedish sporters were built on German and Belgian 98 actions.

here's a list from the nra museum on interpreting proof marks for armories from Belgium, Spain, Germany, France and Britain. Every country listed used some type of crown as a proof mark at some time.

http://www.nramuseum.com/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf

Wouldn't be too surprised if every country that had both a monarch and a proof house used a crown at some point in time.

It's almost as if one of the people responding has never seen a custom rifle built on a military Mauser action... :crazy

czech1022-
Perhaps the hole to which TBREW401 referred was the smaller hole as shown in the image below? (If not, then permit me to ask about the smaller hole, if hole it is.)

Is it a metal-lined bolt disassembly aid like the steel-lined grommeted hole in the original military stock? Something else?

Thanks for taking the trouble to post your additional helpful photos above.
--Bob
.


.

There looks to be another just behind the forend tip….

leadminer-
Oops. I overlooked the hole in the forend. Thanks. Sling-swivel sockets perhaps?
--Bob

Gentlemen:

I take all posts very seriously.

*( Unfortunately my Internet Explored is acting up again and dislaying very wide pages hiding some words on the right side. Thus I missed the first posting of caliber. I'm now on Firefox which is better ).

As to the post with NRA crown proof marks, thanks. Very informative. However, there are NO SWEDISH proof marks.

Something just is NOT right about ALL of this ID effort. The proofs in the NRA listing have additional stampings usually in the form of letters. The Crown/Erfurt does not ? Why not?

Here are my problems:

1. Just how reliable is anything we read on the internet ?

2. http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=218-1913-1920-%28Double-Dated%29-Kar98a-Carbine

The website indicates that the Germans engaged is some under the covers hanky panky with rifles, hiding some, modifying some secretly, resurrecting old parts, re stamping, and playing games.

It seems that the poster(s) who said there were other crowns were right. Here's the history of the German Republic and Imperial era. The 1916 Erfurt would be in the Imperial era. Thus the crown could apply to Germany - "perhaps".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Empire

I haven't been able to establish a direct link between Sweden and Erfurt. It really gets extensive and complicated unraveling the past so long ago.
______________________________________________________

My ancestry is Bentheim/German/Dutch.Best efforts show that my family was from Bentheim. Dates go back to the mid-1800's. However, Bentheimers are traced back to the 11th century. My Great grandfather was born in Bentheim. My Grandfather in Swolle, Netherlands. Bentheim was a principality back at the time of Napoleon Bonaparte. Germany glommed onto Bentheim in that epoch and made it a part of Germany. None the less Bentheimers still exist and are internally independent. The Prince is sill recognized there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Bentheim
________________________________________________________

I'm really very favorably impressed with the knowledge and expertize of posters here. Greatly appreciated.

You won't.



Of coarse they did. How do you think they got prepared for WWII? The fact remains, the Germans were allowed 18000 Kar98's after WWI under the Treaty of Versailles. These were all marked with the 1920 stamp. Later the number was increased to to 50000. I'm sure the Germans had thousands upon thousands of Kar98's left after the war that never saw circulation because of the treaty. A rare number of them were factory refurbished for the Waffen-SS and have the "dirty bird" stamp but these are very, very rare finds. Why would any country besides Germany put that 1920 mark on their rifle? The simple fact that the rifle has 2 dates on it, a German origin (Erfurt) , German proof marks including a German rejection proof mark pretty much proves the rifles origin and history. especially the 1920 re-marking.

Now if that rifle could talk there is no telling how many countries it's been to in it's lifetime, who carried it and what was done with it. Sometimes when I hold these old rifles that runs through my mind.



If you'll go back and look at the NRA page you'll find it's not a complete history. The way Erfurt did it was the small crown on the left side was the the proof mark. The letter under the crown was the actual inspector that proofed the rifle. If you'll look at the OP's picture you'll see the first proof mark (little crown) with a "B" under it. The inspector who did the inspection on that rifle was assigned the letter B and all his inspections could be linked back to him. In the case of the rifle pictured he didn't like what he found and rejected it on it's first inspection, hence the R/C stamp above his proof mark. Later the rifle was corrected and the assembly and function proofs were added.

William, It's been a fun thread and you've added to it. I just don't think there is anything that would indicate this was ever a Swedish rifle. It could have been a Swedish rifle but I've never found anything that distinguishes a Kar98 Swede from a German Kar98 other than the modified magazine box. I think/assume the rifles Sweden bought in 1939 were arsenal storage rifles (new) not the ones that were re-stamped for German use.

That's my best guess - But I'm not at all sure where to find studs that will fit those!

TCI

I want to direct this post to your personal attention, because you have been so helpful, and to renew my thanks and appreciation.

I spent lots of time researching these past days and I found not only a surprising number of gun/shooting/hunting websites but also a surprising number of posts by other owners of the KXA98. Indeed old posts on this website a few years back.

I have seen enough other photos of the receiver stampings to say they are similar to the opening photos here above of the crown and Erfurt with double date stamps. The typeface/font is identical and the crown is also. One little caveat may be that the KAX98 is incorrectly referred to as a "German" Mauser. Here's a link to Prussia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia

So the KAX98 is actually a "Prussian" Mauser. And the crown refers to the Prussian Royalty justifiably.

So the pendulum swung the other way and it now looks as though the rifle above is a legitimate Erfurt product. *( Note also that I did find posts by owners who had KAX98's with stampings obliterated and re-stamped ).

I do not now see any connection, or recycling to, or through, Sweden or Turkey although there is evidence of guns being processes by Turkey and apparently returned. There was no shortage of hanky panky.

I had a lengthy and interesting conversation with Mitchell's Mauser's.

http://www.mauser.org/

I commented that all of their M98's were sold out. He said: not only here in the USA but world wide. They're gone. No more. The price has escalated to $2,000. *( Note I posted that Cabela's had two in their gun library and one private owner in Texas ). Further he said his company has commissioned Serbia to produce new M98's.The order is placed and they are waiting shipment. Price isn't yet set but expected to be around $900. He related a story about a young boy who inherited one of these rifles and re-sold it for $500. It was worth 4 times that according the Mitchell's rep.

There is one little caveat that remains open in my mind. The above custom rifle is 6.5 mmm caiber!

From what I gather Prussian/German military rifles were produced in 7mm - 8mm and in between. There is lots of checkered history that is very time consuming to track. The above rifle was chambered in 6.5mm. A new barrel was installed. That left only the bolt/bolt face to consider. I checked Ken Howells book and found the various 6.5, 7, 8mm case heads were not listed as convertibles or interchangeable. Thus I can't discern if the original bolt was altered or replaced. So the remaining open question is - what was the original caliber of this rifle".

The owners opening question was asking to identify the receiver. The place of origin has surely been confirmed by now but the original caliber still remains open.

The original caliber was marked on the top of the front receiver ring as "7,92". Sorry my pictures left that out.

And MANY THANKS to all who have contributed!

Prussia pretty much ceased to exist as a country when Germany unified in the 1870's. The Prussian monarch became kaiser so imperial Germany used the Prussian eagle as it's symbol. Saying something made in Prussia 50 years after unification isn't German is more than a little like saying something made at Springfield arsenal isn't american because Massachusetts wasn't always part of the US.

Just curious but other than the crown proof mark and the chambering what lead you to believe that the rifle was Swedish?

CZ:

Thanks for confirming the caliber. You have a fabulous rifle. I'm sure that you realize that it has ascended in value now.

Kelly:

I won't try to argue the Prussia/Germany history. My ancestral Bentheimer's are very hard headed and well established here in the USA predominantly in Michigan where my father was born. They organize trips back to the old country every few years. I communicate with the Pastor of my ancestors church.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Bentheim

To answer your question:

I owned Swedish Mauser 6.5 mm and numerous other Mauser's. Gave two to my grandson a couple of months ago along with my Mauser Military book. So I was disadvantaged.

From memory I was very much into Swedish King Gustaf 6.5 mm's extensively. Sweden manufactured some Mausers there in Sweden and some came from Germany *( Prussia ).

The 6.5m was an odd ball seemingly unique to Sweden. *( Actually that is somewhat open to further scrutiny because I have further info about other caliber also in the mix over time.

I floated some trial balloon and they were promptly shot down.

At the risk of repeating myself I marvel at the expertise of the gunsmiths who conspicuously have extraordinary talent.

Norway and Sweden used the 6.5x55

Greece used the 6.5x54 MS

The Netherlands and Romania used the 6.5x53R

Portugal used the 6.5x58 for awhile

Italy used the 6.5x52

Right.

I was referring to the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser specific to SAAMI nomenclature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5%C3%9755mm

I knew about Noway. Wikipedia lists only those top countries.

The 6.5 is diameter. The 55 is length. That case only applies to Sweden & Norway. The others referred to were different cartridges.

All too often people are too brief and refer to a caliber only such as 30-06 neglecting the rest of the ID. With all of the wildcats and proprietary cartridges there could be half a dozen 30-06's and even with rimmed, rimless or belted cases.

Right.

But what you wrote was this: "The 6.5m was an odd ball seemingly unique to Sweden.".

What I was pointing out was that multiple countries adopted 6.5mm bore military cartridges, so the 6.5m was neither an odd ball or unique to Sweden.

and Japan used the 6.5x50...

Good catch!

Gustaf made a copy of the commercial FN action.I have owned them.Made in Sweden not Belgium.

Gustav was just one of the brand names that rifles built by Husqvarn were sold under, Norrahammar and FFV being among the others. According to the Husqvarna guys, all of the large-ring 1898 style actions that Husqvarna built on were imports from FN "in the white", without any markings other than Belgian proof marks as required. My understanding is that Husqvarna's Swedish production went directly from the "strengthened" 640 small rings, those without the thumb-slot in the left receiver rail, to the 1640 HVA small ring "improved" 98. This is another time when SBHVA's untimely death has left us with a hole in our knowledge base.

Luxemburg also used the 6.5x55 in the M1900 Mauser.
--Bob

So did Britain and Russia

The Finns also used the 6.5x55, in the 135,000 Mausers they received from Sweden.

There might be another explanation. In the early 1930's, the Swedes adopted the 8X63mm (M32) cartridge for machine gun use. They similarly adopted the M98 Mauser chambered for the same cartridge to be issued to machine gun troops; the reason being that the troops could always use the machine gun rounds and thus simplify logistics. These rifles were manufactured in and purchased from Germany.

Recoil was pretty severe (according to one man I met in Sweden) and the rifles were despised. In the 1970's these rifles were re-barreled for the 7.62X51mm NATO.

It is conceivable that these German made M98's were stamped with the Swedish crown after acceptance.

"Gustav was just one of the brand names that rifles built by Husqvarn ...."

The Carl Gustav factory was the government-owned arms factory; Husqvarna was a privately-owned manufacturing company that produced arms, chain saws and industrial products - no relation to Carl Gustav (whose facilities survive today as a military museum).

Swedish Crown Variations:

see: http://swedishmauser.blogspot.com/2009/02/three-different-crown-stamp-variations.html

You are correct, Carl Gustav is to Sweden what Springfield is to the U.S. However, starting the in late 1960s, Husqvarna made/sold sporters built on the 1900 action under the FFV, Carl Gustav, and Husqvarna brands, as well as the Tradewinds and S&W brands for the U.S. market.

I have a FFV/Carl Gustav in 30-06, #5093xx, that is built on a 1900 action.

There has been some discussion on this topic on the Gun Boards Swedish section and Stuart Otteson wrote about it in one of his bolt action books, I think Volume 2.