With Winchester touting their Extreme Point Bullet Design in the Deer Season XP ammo, it got me to thinking about deer bullets, not an all around Big Game bullet, but just a deer bullet. Winchester touts DRT's with the new bullets, something I would prefer.

I read the info about the Deer Season XP and am wondering if it is all hype or the real deal with deer DRT's?

Currently use handloaded 170 grain Sierra FN in 30-30, and 180 grain Round nose Sierra or Hornady(what I was able to buy at the time) in my -06 and will use the same in my recently acquired .308. Our shots are under 100 yards and these bullets have done fairly well. Possibly the Extreme Point is an All Around Bullet.

What do you guys think?

I think you're where you need to be. No need to change. If you want to try something different, load some lead bullets.

I use Rem Cor Lokts, Interlocks and (mostly) lead for my 30-30. Core-Lokts and plain Jane Hornady c&c will work great out of your 308.

No need to re-invent the wheel, but you can have some fun playing with "cheap" bullets.

In this part of Maryland we're not allowed to use a rifle. During firearms season, we have to use a shotgun. You guys need to try this if it's legal where you live. I use a T/C Encore with a riffled slug barrel. The scope is a Nikon Slughunter 3-9x40mm with a BDC retical. I shoot a 3" Beneke Magnum Crush. It's made specifically for riffled barrels and is a 1 1/2 oz. slug that moves at 1500fps. The entry hole is big enough to put your fist in. Why the entry hole is so big is unknown to me. It must have an explosive effect or something. I'm good out to 150 yrds and when you hit'em, they don't go far. The BDC retical is almost not needed because it doesn't start dropping until after 100 yrds.

If you want to try it in a smooth bore shotgun, they make the Breneke Black Magic. The same thing, but the rifling goes the opposite direction.

Hornady interlocks, Remington cor-loct, amax.

Chainsaw -

With all the competition FOR most bullets, I don't give away my recipe ! --

I don't use a premium bullet for WT but I hunt/shoot hi vel cartridges SO I must use bullets that don't disintegrate at close range.

For most deer hunting -MOST- c/c bullets will work. There have been changes in the bullet/ammo makers trying to cater to those (a lot) who want pretty tipped bullets. Even some of the old reliable bullets have been (upgraded) CHANGED and not all for the better.

IMO it depends on how fast your bullets are traveling and how 'close' you normally take shots.

To Repeat: Most c/c bullets will work.

How's that for a definite maybe ??

For deer, I like Nosler BT's at 3k.

Are you more interested in trying new bullets or believing advertising hype?

I hunt in NE Wis. and generally my shots are much less than 100 yds. Favorite bullets and weights have been dependent on caliber and speed.

Sounds like you have your situation covered pretty well. If you want to try something different go for it. If you think this new load will bring you to Nirvana go for it; it'll probably work fine, but so do the loads you already know.

I'm a Nosler AccuBond convert. They have good ballistic characteristics, have been highly accurate, and they retain weight well so far and mushroom without breaking apart.

They seem to perform well at low to pretty high velocities; I like them for long range shots.

I think most any bullet will kill a deer. 223 shooting 62 grain TSX works, DRT.

^^^^^^^^

This

150 grain Ballistic Tips are sure deer killers out of a 308.

Possibly the Extreme Point is marketing hype.

I have killed a lot of white tail deer with 30/30 at 100 yards and less with plain old Winchester 150 gr. and Remington 170 gr. off the shelf offerings. This was in the late 70s and 80s.
We used them on deer, turtles, coke bottles, and anything else we aimed at. At $7 a box, we road around the farm and shot a bunch.

In those days, here in GA, one could count on the fact that 8 out of 10 pickup trucks you passed on the road would have a Marlin or Winchester 30/30 leaver gun hanging in a gun rack mounted in front of the rear window.

I don't recall ever collecting a deer with my old 30/30 and thinking, "Dang...wish I had used a different bullet."

Nosler Ballistic Tips is my favorite.

When I first started deer hunting, you could buy a box of .30-06 Remington Core-Lokt 150 PSPs for $9.83. I used those every year for 16 years and I never knew there was anything better as they worked. I didn't get into the fancy stuff until I started reloading and can't say I've seen anything new that the Core-Lokts wouldn't do consistently on deer.

Chainsaw,

I've killed deer neatly with dozens of different makes and calibers from .22 on up, and they've all worked when I did my job. But suggesting one design and brand of bullet across the board is unrealistic, because in different weights, calibers and different velocities they don't all perform the same. Then there's range and possible size of the deer to consider.

However, that might be making things a little more complicated than you want. For the cartridges and bullet weights you're using, just about any bullet will do.

Dunno if the hype about the Winchester bullet is the real deal or not, but it's been demonstrated a number of times that fragmenting bullets kill quicker, on average, with ribs shots.

Winchester might be "touting" their XP bullets, but I've found that damn near any bullet works on deer. Even their old as hell powerpoints. I actually shot my buck last year with an old 180gr. Winchester powerpoint from an old 06. Worked just fine..

I use the same T/C slug gun and scope except in 20 gauge. I shoot a hand loaded 20 gauge slug using the Hornady .45 250 gr FTX bullet at 1640 feet per second. Just knocks their dicks into the dirt.

Doc

6-250: 90 gr NBT

257 AI: 90 gr GMX, 100 gr Interlock or NBT

30-06: 150 & 165 gr Interlocks, 168 gr NBT

No need whatsoever for premiums on deer, but it's fun to experiment!

I use 180 gr. round nose core lokt's in my 308, and speer 150 gr. hot cor in my 270.

As of now? The 270gr Speer in my 9.3x62. I can eat right up to the hole.

I plan to use between four and seven rifles and shoot between eight and twelve whitetails during the 2015/16 Nebraska deer seasons.

22-250 - Nosler 60 grain Partition

243 - Nosler 95 grain Partition

25-06 - Hornady American Whitetail factory load with 117 grain SpirePoint

6.5 Creedmoor - 130 grain Nosler Accu-Bond

243 - Hornady & Sierra 100gr SP's in 60's early '70's

257Rbts - Old style WW 100gr SilverTips factory ammo for everything from Speedgoats to WTails & 100gr Hornady SP's handloads

25-06 - Hornady 120gr SP's eh? OK not great in 1st run mfg'd Ruger 77 tanger.

6.5x55 - Handloads 120gr SPH's, 130gr NAB',luv'em in T3 & hope the T3 260 is as good

270 - factory ammo: FedPrem 150gr SGK's,WW 150grPP's
- Fed Blue Box 150gr SP's: all 3 shot out of 5-6 guns to same POI with sub 1.5MOA's reliably.
- handloads: 130gr Nosler "Redbox" FBSP blems's & I'd buy all I could get if they ever make another run of them, best General use 270 bullet I ever shot.
- *150gr Speer HotCor's & 140gr BTSP's for 15+ years & never had a bullet failure, w/ +/- moa's
- 1st Gen 130gr Nosler BT's & never bought 'em again, very accurate & terrible on game.

300WMg - 180gr SGK's great bullet & some Fed Blue Box 180's very reliable

9.3x62 - Speer 270gr SP's one hole 4 shot group accuracy and great on game.

*I bought out a Lousiana dealers entire stock of Speer rifle bullets at $2 & $3 a box in 1986, and came home with about 3-4k mixed 270's of the 8-10+K of bullets or enough to make my suburban squat on it's overload helper springs, along with all my other samples and cases of dealer brochures.

Killed more game with Speer bullets than anything else in my 45+ years of hunting. Currently shooting Nosler, Sierra, Hornady, Speer & Remmy in that order out of a 260, 270 & 300WSM.
Ron

That's just me friends.

I have NO preference at all. I shoot everything. I didn't say ALL, just anything.

All of the bullet manufacturers hype is just so much mumbo jumbo, bamboozle, razzle dazzle, sales spiel. I don't want to dis-respect anyone's opinions.

The bullet itself, stand alone, is only a small component of the overall assembly of elements, factors pertaining to the effectiveness of firing projectiles into animals.

I have all sorts of firearms, shotguns, handguns, muzzle loaders, center fire rifles and a variety of calibers. They all work for me with just about any kind of projectile. *( Given the varying distances and conditions ).

Lets go back to the late 1,800's on the Plains - Bison hunters shooting relatively primitive rifles by comparison to modern firearms and wiping out almost 43 million Bison in just a few decades. Shooting multiples in a day and up to 600 yards using black powder and lead bullets.

I think Steve Redgwell's response pretty much summed things up. What I can add is that in 30-some years of deer hunting and almost that long in online hunting forums pre-dating the rise of the Internet, I have seen more discussions on this topic than I care to remember.

As previously mentioned, most people fail to realize the basic truth that deer are fairly easy to kill. When they lose a deer, they are fairly quick to assume it was the bullet. However, it colors a whole lot more of folks' thinking. I think we want to elevate the deer to a much higher level. We imagine them tougher to make our achievements seem greater. The more elaborate the pill, the bigger the success. T

I prefer Hornady Interlock SP's whenever I can use them. However, they are my favorites for a bunch of reasons rather unrelated to what they do to a deer.

1) They are inexpensive. I grew out of that idea that
I needed the best, and I had to make the shot count and all that. Truth is, at the ranges I shoot, just about anything I lob at a whitetail is going to make them die.

2) They are nearly ubiquitous. My second favorite is Remington Core-lokts, but the supply of those come and go. Hornady SP's are nearly always there. I can always find Hornady online, and I can usually find them locally.

3) Plausible Deniability. I realized that bullets that come out of the red box have more of this than just about any other bullet:

In the Shamanic Reloading Cave

Not a Gunwriter but here's my list. I think it depends on how much meat you're willing to waste.
30-30 - 170 Core Lokt. This year I have some vintage 170 Winchester Silver Tips loaded up.
308 - 150 Core Lokt but they're gone so now I'm shooting 150 Nosler Solid Base, time will tell how they work.
30-06 - 165 Hornady SP. I used to use 165 SST's. Great deer killer but they tear up a lot of meat. The SP seems to kill just as well without all the meat damage.
338 Federal - I only killed one deer with it but the 180 Nosler Accubond did a nice job on a lousy angle.
45-70 - I used to use 300 Hornady HP. Kills very quickly but don't expect to eat any from the exit wound area. What a mess!

I will add another vote for the Accubond. Shoots very well in the rifles we use and very effective on deer.

Ballistic tip. Violent expansion and thick base so it penetrates even with core separation.

I'm pretty sure I could kill a deer with about anything.

I suspect that Winchester's new bullet is simply their attempt to enter the tipped bullet market and take some gravy from Nosler and Hornady. Tipped lead bullets work very well on deer. I think they kill MARGINALLY faster on lung shots than the old standbys....probably because they do more damage. They are going to be a lot more destructive up close than what you are used to using so you may not like them.

I like them because I prefer lung shots (bigger target) but also like short tracking jobs. Hornady SSTs have given me a lot of drop on the spot kills with lung shots and if they run I seem to get a Ray Charles blood trail more often than not.

If you are cool enough and a good enough shot, you can bust the shoulders with anything and get a DRT.

I'm pretty sure I HAVE killed deer with about everything short of really big stuff. Any more though, I only use monometals. Mostly, my deer stands have the shooting rail right on 20 feet off the ground and sometimes the deer wearing the "I am tasty - shoot me" sign walks right under you. I have yet to see a mono come undone at very high velocity and very short range. They still work great at long range. I have seen too many cup and core bullets do a poor job at very high velocity and very short range though.

I too live in a shotgun/muzzle loader only for deer region in Maryland. When hunting locally I use a .45 patched round ball out of a half-stock percussion gun. When hunting in Western Maryland (where I mostly go anymore) the bullet of choice is a 190 grain soft cast lead bullet at 1800fps, in everything from .30-30 to .30-06. You don't need the latest high tech anything for something as prosaic as killing a whitetail at woods ranges. Best not to over think it- spend that time practicing or scouting instead.

Proof is in the pudding (.303 Savage, 190 flat nose cast bullet @1800 fps, 110 yards):

Nice buck, similiar rack to one I shot in Michigan two years ago. I used a 300 Savage with 150 grain Sierra Pro Hunter over 41 grains of Reloder 15. Bullet entered the chest went through the deer and broke the right rear femur. Found the bullet nestled right next to the femur and in the curve of sirloin tip roast where it wraps around the femur. I have only used simple cup and core Sierras, Hornadys, Core Locks with great results. I don't see the need for premium bullets on white tails.

Certainly not at 300Sav velocities.

You can still see through a peep sight at your age..LOL.

Doc

I don't think there's any doubt about that......

but some bullets do a better job than others from 'hard angles'.

I've never shot a deer in the butt and I don't intend to. Some bullets don't perform well from hard angles and I believe in being prepared, just in case.

Hornady Interlock - it's all about placement on the target.

All bullets have a 100% failure rate when you azz shootem.

As many have said, it's not that big a deal. I have killed deer very handily with:

.22 WRM 40 grain HP
65 grain .224 SGK
50 grain Norma factory load in .222
100 grain Barnes TSX in .25-06 AI
130 grain NAB in 6.5X55
150 Grain Barnes X in 7 MM RM
140 grain NBT in 7mm RM
150 grain NBT in 7 mm RM
150 grain NBT in .308
165 grain NBT in .308
165 grain SGK in .308
190 grain Silvertip in .303 Savage
400 grain Speer fP in .45-70
210 grain XTP in .41 mag
240 grain XTP in .44 mag
240 grain WW factory HP in .44 mag
16 gauge slug
12 gauge slug
tire iron
Swiss Army knife
I'm sure this is an incomplete list, but I have no complaints about bullet performance with any of them.

the only thing that will "knock a deer down" DRT with a good blood trail and without over penetration is the 700 Nitro Express at $73.00 a cartridge. The 22 hornet kills them too but real men don't use a 22 hornet.

THE deer bullet preference for me is the 130NP out of my 270. It is one killing son of a gun.
Old Nosler Solid Bases work well and so do Hornady SPs.
Trying out some ABs and they seem to work fine also.
Not a fan of the monos.
jmho
Tim

Depends on the type of hunting...for drives where the deer are moving and the speed of the deer plus distance/angle could be whatever, I like a TSX/TTSX or a GMX. Two years ago I had a young 8-point pass 20 ft in front of me moving broadside right to left and at 2X all I saw was deer. I quickly fired, the bullet hit just aft of center, a tad high, and busted the spine. Cartridge was a .308 & 150 gr TTSX. For this type of hunting/shooting, I prefer something that will stay together.

For stand hunting, I've used most makes and all have done the job admirably when properly placed.

My favorite is the Nosler AB. I buy seconds so they are cheap.

JD338

Prefer something between .224" and .920" inclusive, round or conical, lead or jacketed, between 700 and 3,000 fps inclusive with iron or optical sights.

And I feel strongly both ways. Even if wrong I'm seldom in doubt.

I'll be hunting a mythical 400lb Muledeer buck, using a 308 Loaded with 125gr Nosler Ballistic tips.

I've used a bunch, but if forced to pick one it would be the lowly WW Power Point. Best cup n core bullet I've used.

I think it would be easier to pick the bullets that wouldn't work at 100 yards or less with any of the 3 calibers you speak of. If there is such a bullet, Guess I will look and see if I can find a .308 cal. that fits "No way in hell I'd use that bullet on deer at 100y or less"

Mostly handgun hunt due to local regulations and a 245gr cast SWC at 1400-1500fps works just fine.
That slug that blows fist-sized entry holes wouldn't be my cup of tea-although I have no doubt they kill effectively. I like to eat deer too. A finger-sized entry hole and slightly larger exit is my preference.

My impression any more is there are likely more bullets that would work well than wouldn't and it's the putting them in the right place that is the trick.

Nosler BT's for me. Very accurate, not too expensive, and does the job very well. I've run them through a couple hundred deer, Pigs, and coyotes.

What bullet weight and cartridge? Thx

I use a lot of Nosler Ballistic Tips:

.257" 115gr - 257 Roberts
7mm 150gr - 7wsm and 7-08
.308" 180gr - 30/06 and .300 Wby

I have some 95gr 6mm Ballistic Tips but I've not loaded them yet. In the .243 Win it's 80 TTSX or 80 GMX for me right now.

.458" I use the 350 Hornady FP and the 300gr Speer - 45/70

.358" I use 200gr Hornadys or the 220 Speer - .358 Win and .35 Rem

The heaviest one you can send down range at 3k.

For my 270 I have shot deer with horn addy, Speer, core lock, Sierra and nosler but. I found the Sierra the most accurate, but they all had a common attribute.....dead deer

Barnes for me. They work very well.

AND they have insurance... if you have to take a raking shot or a finishing shot, they rarely shed much if any weight, and almost always exit.

Thats a LOT more than I can say for almost every other bullet I've shot over many years.

They don't cost enough to worry about, I mean, a couple shots to verify zero, and if I have 5 tags thats 5 bullets the majority of the time.

You can get it done with a lot less though, they ain't that tough. 22LR will do the trick.

The obsession with deer falling where they stand is beyond me. Typically that type of shot takes CNS to be 100% for sure and will waste some meat. And through the lungs really takes expansive fast bullets, more waste.

I do not get the seemingly non ability or desire to learn trailing.

YMMV.

Don't get me wrong I would NOT be caught dead with a 270 even if it ment starving to death..but I do commend you on picking quality bullet Mfgs to help the 270 out

In a lot of my spots trailing is a major bitch, especially in the evening. I'll avoid it when I can.

Here is my quick list:
223/5.6 - Winchester 64 PP
243 - Sierra 85 BTHP
257 Roberts - 75 Vmax (only because I have a bunch loaded. This is my daughters rifle. Some day I will find a 100 grain load, probably Hornady Interlock)
7mm08 - Hornady Whitetail 139 gr
30-06 - Hornady 165 BTSP

My all time favorite deer load is factory loaded Winchester silvertips out of any good shooting 30/30

Some of my choices are not ideal but work fine at the ranges I hunt.

G

Kinda depends on the country you hunt in. Follw a deer through the south Texas thorn brush on your hand and knees, and come face to face with Mr Rattlesnake. And you'll appreciate DRT.

Early on I used other bullets,but for a good many years I mostly shoot them with Partitions. With lung shots sometimes they die where they were standing,sometimes move off a few yards.

But mostly I whack them in the shoulders ( the front ones). This has drawbacks....they disappear so fast I don't know where they went.

Fastest killing bullet I've used on lung shots are Bitterroots at high velocity. Turns lungs to soup,like they went through a blender. This tapers off a bit beyond 300 yards so I shoot them in the shoulders. They go right down.

I know I don't "need" them but who cares? I'm not there to finesse them to death or overthink it.

To southtexas, regarding my choice of Nosler Ballistic Tips. In the 270, when they phased out the old Solid Base Boattails, I switched to the BT's. Stayed with the 130 gr bullets and killed somewhere around 150 or so deer with it. Maybe 200, but I'm past being able to count em all up. Then I got happy with a 260 and used 120 gr BT's for a year or two. Then, since I was blasting way more pigs and coyotes with the 260 than deer, I switched to the 100 gr BT. It works quite well, though I do think that the 120 gr version kills the deer a little bit quicker.

For coyotes, I use the 40 gr BT in my 223 and the 55 gr BT in my 220 Swift, though lately I've switched to the 55 gr Sierra GK in the Swift if I'm shooting pigs, since I hear it's a bit tougher (as yet unproven to me). That 55 gr BT in the 220 killed every pig I ever shot with it, but the pigs had an annoying tendency to run into thickets, requiring tracking through the briars. So...I thought I'd try the tougher bullet.

I've always thought the BT's were about the best for accuracy, but I do find that the 55 gr Sierra GK in the 220 shoots arguably as well and to the exact same POI as the Noslers.

Bob,

I think you're the first to mention shoulder vs. lung shots. To me, that makes a difference in bullet selection.

On bone, I like the Barnes. For chest, more expansive C&C bullets seem to drop them faster.

And, I agree with DRT, especially in certain terrains. It's best to lose some meat than a deer. In more open country, probably not as critical.

DF

I have killed 15 deer with Nosler Ballistic tip:


All the deer bullets work. I just like NBT best.

I probably should have mentioned that, though I use the Nosler BT's, I do avoid certain shots. I try to put the bullet right behind the shoulder and wreck the lungs. That never fails if I do my job on placement, and we don't cook deer ribs anyway. If I was going to shoot them through bones intentionally, I'd probably switch to the Accubond or the Partition. And, I try to avoid angled shots with the Ballistic Tip. The bullet tends to fragment, and angled shots may not give an exit wound and therefore not a blood trail.

Seems like I always got an exit wound when using the 270 and the 130 gr BT's, and the same with the 120 gr BT's in the 260. With the smaller bullet, the 100 gr, at a higher velocity, I don't always get an exit wound. I shot a 250 pound hog a year or two ago and hit him right behind the shoulder. No exit wound, though he didn't go very far at all. And I hit a very nice full grown 10 point buck right behind the shoulder last season and got no exit wound with the 100 gr BT I used. The deer didn't go very far, but there was no blood trail that I could find. I think I'm talking myself into going back to the 120 gr BT. Always good to have a blood trail.

I quit shooting hogs behind the shoulder. To many ran off to die in the woods. They're hard to find, don't generally leave a blood trail like a WT. I shoot hogs mid shoulder forward, which seems to nail them.

My buds and I like to chest shoot WT's to save meat. They don't go that far, shot with the right bullet. Partitions are a favorite at the camp. Any good C&C will do better with chest shots than most premium bullets, although the NPT can be pretty expansive. I'm not sure if we should classify the Partition as premium or not. Here is a study substantiating soft C&C bullets out performing hard, premium bullets on WT's. Check it out.

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/articlegad.html

DF

In the SC study, pay attention to bullet weights. In the C&C group with best kill stats, it discusses appropriate weight for caliber. In the Premium stats, (they do list the Partition as "premium"), they mention heavy for caliber bullets in a less than positive way.

So, another variable is bullet weight, which equates to velocity.

Bottom line, slower, heavier, harder premium bullets don't kill Southern WT's as fast as lighter, faster, softer C&C bullets.

DF

Same thing for Western Mule deer.

That's why you want to keep your velocity up.

I guess if you're shoulder punching them, harder bullets like the Barnes may be the ticket.

Chest shooting seems to present a different set of variables.

The Partition will do both. It's about as expansive as some C&C's and punches like a hard, premium bullet, which the SC wildlife people consider it to be.

And, when you're caught with a difficult angle or a tough shot, the NPT will do it's stuff.

I know all that, but as a Loony, I'm always testing and experimenting with other options. Just can't help myself...

DF

Nosler partition......kicking ass for over 65 years.....the standard by which all others are judged.

Love those accubonds too though.

Yeah, those NAB's performed well for you in Africa. Of course, they didn't find those critters all by themselves...

It seems the choice between NAB's and NPT's depends on what the gun likes. My .240 loves 100 gr. NPT's over MRP, best load it's ever shot. So, that's an easy one to figure.

Other guns don't like them as well.

I'm wondering what the 135 Raptor will do in my .308. They shoot very good groups, fragment and the core blows on through. That may work chest shooting WT's. I intend to find out. Here's a link to that thread.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10332136/Re:_.308_Copper_Raptor_135_gr.#Post10332136

DF

Um, don't assume I don't have a clue.. bowhunting for years, and well aquainted with S Texas. DOesn't bother me in the least. YMMV.

I have never on purpose shoulder punched anything wiht a barnes. I've shot quite a bit of them slower than what folks suggest, well under 3000 fps MV.

I"ve never had an issue finding a deer.

Partitions in 300 mag did not perform the way I wished so I moved to Barnes. JB says I should have run 200 partitions in the 300 rather than 180s... but when you can shoot em with a bullet that really doesn't loose any weight, opens, and rarely are you dealing with frags in the meat and you can eat to the hole, it was something I never could do with cup and core, I was sold and thats that.

These numbers mean something to me.
Bullets penetrate a constant depth over a range of velocities by opening up more with higher velocity.

This penetration regulation:
20" partition bullets
14" deer bullets

The information we have about terminal ballistics is usually anecdotal. The above info I gave is data more carefully sampled.

But it is not going to change anyone's mind.
The guys I hunt with, one drives a chevy, one drives a ford.
They shoot partitions at deer shoulders and necks and I shoot Nos Bal Tips at the lungs.
Nothing I say about bullets has any effect on them.
Nothing they say about bullets has any effect on me.

Chainsaw- i would use ballistic silver tips in nickel brass for each of those you mentioned. 150 for the 30-30 and 308,and 150 or 168 for the 30-06. they are very attractive . of course you are doing fine with what you have so why fix it? out here our shots are usually further and the whitetails are dinks 65-75 dressed.

clarkm, those tests are always interesting to me as well. I've also been very lucky to have tested bullets in real life on over 200 head of big game, probably a tad over 100 have been culling aoudad. I know what I like and why, and I love high shoulder shots.

JGRaider,
I have only shot 19 big game animals.
But I have shot thousands of rodents.
I can tell if I had only shot 19 rodents, I would not know anything about shooting rodents.

If I take my 308 this year it will be using the 150gr lapua megas. I got a whole Finland theme going on with lapua brass and bullets. Vihtavuori powder and a hand made puukko from northern Finland. If the area where I would use that set up doesn't work out, it will be Barnes at warp speed from one of my other rifles.

Them sheeps is a tough target for sure! Says a lot about bullet performance to work fine on them. IMHO.

Can't agree at all with you on high shoulders on edible game, but to each their own.

Partitions are never a bad second choice.

You're killin' me rost.......

Works every time I have tried them.

I have never seen the same level of consistent performance from any C&C bullet that a Partition provides. That's on deer big and small, East and West and up in Alberta almost to the NWT.

I have never hunted the deer of the south;nor Coues bucks,which would make me switch bullets. But they are a specialized little dwarf critter requiring a special touch of finesse. For that I'd call GregW and seek advice.

OK, happy crawling. I don't like thorns in my knees and hands. But as you say... YMMV

+1. Mirrors my experience.

I think it depends on what you shoot them behind the shoulder with. When I use the 270 and the 260 (with 120 gr bullets), and shoot them behind the shoulder, they rarely run out of their shadow. I suspect a direct connection between the size of the 'hammer' and how far the pig gets before expiring. My cousin says he shot a medium sized pig with his 50 cal bolt gun. He said that parts of the pig went quite a ways, but most of the big pieces stayed right there.

A hog's heart/lungs are farther forward than a deer's. A shot very far behind the shoulder can miss them.

Yeah, power does make a difference. This hog's heart was hit by a 120 gr. E-Tip, leaving the muzzle at 3,450 fps out of a 26 Nosler. DRT as you would have guessed.

But, with reasonable rounds, shoulder forward seems to work better.

DF