I bought a ruger bisley in 45colt and am wanting to load some ruger only loads for it. The bullets I'll be using will be 250gr xtps and lead 255gr wfn. I'm not wanting to load it too crazy, just to about 1200fps uses will be deer and hog. Any idea of a starting point?

Buy some WW-296, H110, or 2400 powder. Any of them are hard to beat for a 45 Colt heavy load for Ruger's. Also 10 grains of Unigue or Herco is a decent load too. Around 1100 fps, IIRC with the LBT WFN bullet

Hodgdon be your friend

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

First, I'd be making sure throat diameters jive with both bullets in question, but especially the lead one.

Hitting trumps speed....

Yep. I've had to ream the cylinders on several of my new model BlackHawks in .45 Colt. But I've heard Ruger has finally gotten them right on the new guns now.

Call me a doubting Thomas; what constitutes as "right"?

FWIW, the Hornady XTP mikes at .452.

Win296/H110, 2400, and Lil Gun works really well. I run 18 gr of 2400 under a 265 Keith style for about 1100 fps in my SS Bisley. 8gr of Unique under a 255gr SWC gives about 800 fps is also a good load.

Umm, not to be the grammar pol-leece but,…..okay I will. That is so 70s, so BeeGees, or something. We don't be jiving around here no mo. No sir; we be jibing now. Those throats must jibe wit the bullets (or vice-versa).

(Smart-ass: out)

I'll be white and make sure one reconnoiters the throats with bullets first....and make sure they synchronize in harmony.

We can be down with multi-sylabbic syntax, uh-huh! (Damn, I'm almost gettin' that jivin' feeling.)

The 255 gr wfn will shoot completely through a deer at 950 fps.

I had good success in the past with Accurate No. 9 and 250 XTPs. Also used it with 255 SWC and the RCBS 45-SAA-270 bullet (284 gr as cast). That is an awesome bullet in 45 Colt. They show data for Ramshot Enforcer/Accurate 4100 too that should work well.

Mark in GA

when you get tired of full nuts H110 loads

try some 250 cast with Trailboss........

20.0-21.0 grn. 2400. CCI 300 Primer and Starline Brass is my pick for running around 1200fps with bullets in the 250-285 class.
10.0 grains of Unique was THE +P load with 250's for years and usually ran around 1100fps.
As far as throats go, you can slug your own throats or send it to a 'smith and they can slug or pin gauge them and proceed accordingly. .4525 seems to be the accepted "optimum". I had the old .449" throats and my Bisley shot okay. I had them opened up to .4525 and now it shoots awesome!
I will say I've always shot my own cast bullets sized at .452. Even with tight throats it never shot terribly, of course, I'm no great pistolero to begin with.
That said, when you send it in to Bowen, Harton, Stroh, etc. to get trigger, sights, etc. overhauled (which is money well spent, in my opinion) they can go ahead and make the throats a non-issue.

I'd save the H-110/W296 for 300 gr and heavier bullets. 2400 should do the trick, if you can find it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This

4227 probably has the smoothest pressure curve of any powder in that class. It's easy on cylinders, can even be used in older guns.

Reprotedly Hank Williams, Jr., who is a Colt collector and pretty knowledgable about such stuff, likes 4227 in the .45 Colt.

DF

I was talking to a gun shop owner this week and he said Ruger is finally doing it right.

Not being snotty, friends, but what is "right"?

I've heard lots of things, but seeing is believing.

Some measurements would be nice!

I've measured and reamed all my .45 Colts. Some need it more than others.

DF

Here's a 4227 group at 20 yds.



Here's what shot it. Three screw SBH .44 Mag line bored by Jim Stroh to .45 Colt, 6" Shilen barrel and other custom features. I did a trigger stop and tuned the trigger to perfection.

DF

0.4525" is where mine are cut

Favorite loads so far for a Ruger Bisley and a Browning low wall...

8-9gr Unique 255lswc

13gr HS-6 255lswc, from Linebaughs favorite 45colt loads
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

26gr H110 250 XTP, great with the low wall

gonna work on some loads this fall for couple different 300 and 300+ bullets and 270 rcbs flat point and hollw point out of a mihec mold.

Probably not telling you anything you don't already know but, right, at least as far as cast bullets goes, would be having the chamber mouths slightly larger than groove diameter. I just picked up an ANIB 1993 Ruger Bisley 45 Colt last week. I haven't had time to get to the range yet but I did run the critical dimensions and it is, at least according to everything I've read and experienced with cast bullet guns, is wrong.

Using pin gauges its cylinder mouths measure .450 and the groove diameter slugs at .4514. It also shows the usual restriction where the barrel mates to the frame. By all accounts it should shoot cast bullets poorly. A trip to the range with the Ransom Rest will tell whether or not it wants to shoot cast bullets well.

I don't shoot jacketed bullets in revolvers so won't be able to say if the Ruger will shoot jacketed with these dimensions. It most likely will. Jacketed bullets tend to be more forgiving than cast of less than perfect critical dimensions.

I'd be curious to check some new Rugers in 45 Colt to see if Scott's gunshop guy is right. My Redhawk four inch 45 Colt I bought four years ago was certainly undersized on the cylinder mouths and had to be opened to .4525 before it would shoot cast bullets well.

My choice too.

Just happen to have some 4227 on the shelf.

Thanks for giving me the incentive to finally try this powder in the 45colt.

I think you'll like it. Of course, we'll need a report.

To me, 4227 has less flash, boom and recoil of the others and still pushes bullets pretty fast.

Hot loads of H-110, even 2400, seem more violent than full house 4227 loads.

Not sure how one quantifies that, just my $.02.

Try them and compare. See what you think.

DF

For something different, try the 170 Thunderhead from Penn Bullets. They're bad on hogs, hit with an audible whallop.

Not quite as accurate as the Bull X 255 SWC, but not bad.

DF

Legitimate question. All 6 cylinders being cut the same or almost the same and measuring 0.452".

There was a time I "fixed" several bad cylinders. I had accesses to a Sunnen Hone with an air gauge. I would measure and find the largest then clean up and rough spots or tool marks then make the other five the same within 0.00005. It is easy to do with the right equipment. It does the job way better than a reamer ever dreamed of doing.

Here's a Jim Stroh worked over Bisley I bought used 10-12 years ago, fitted stag grips, even installed the Ruger emblem. And, below that is a Blackhawk three screw that I fitted with a SBH grip frame, blued and fitted Micarta grips many years ago. It's so old, the ivory Micarta is now yellow.

.45 Colt, both, of course.

You may think I like .45 Colts...

DF

i really like 2400 for my .45 LC. A 300gr bullet with a stout load of 2400 is all the recoil I care for. The extra velocity of H110 would pretty much wasted for my needs.

This thread has helped me do some thinking. There is a great chance a Ruger Flattop convertible with a 5 1/2" barrel will take up permanent residence in my safe soon.

I really like Accurate powders and have been looking for some loads in the lighter side of +P. I also have read that the 45 LC has some case capacity problems with the newer powders in that the case is not nearly full and powder position can make a significant difference through a chronograph and thus down range. My research shows loads with the 255 gr cast I plan to start with list Accurate powders 9, 4100, 5744, and Ramshot Enforcer. All have +P loads starting at 20.6 gr and going up. Those +P starting loads range around 1,230 fps to 1,350 fps. I do believe those loads would do the trick on most any critter in the lower 48 and still be pretty mild to shoot. Add that with a fuller case for more even burn and less powder position problems should be a win, win.

Thoughts? Am I over thinking this or am I on the right track. Thanks.

Scott,

Wish I could comment on the Accurate powders, but while their rifle powders are available locally, I have almost never seen their pistol powders. I think #9 is the only one I've run into around my area and that has been rarely. If I could find some of any of those you mentioned I'd give them a try.

I think you're on the right track though. Enforcer, 4100 and #9 are all right in there with 2400 for burn rate and 5744 runs real close to 4227. Any of them should meet your goals.

In a big case like the 45 Colt I'm more comfortable with a fuller case. Blue dot is about as fast as I've gone with the big cases with the exception of Elmer's Bullseye load in the 44 Special. I generally prefer 2400 and H110 and after reading this thread am going to do some more work with 4227. I tried it when I was developing heavy bullet loads in my 41 magnum and it gave outstanding accuracy and milder recoil than H110. It did lag a little behind in velocity but not by much. I'd be curious to run some 5744 and 4227 through my 45's to see how they fared.

Congrats on the Flattop convertible. That ought to be a very enjoyable handgun. Keep us posted on how it shoots.

Scott, I don't think the new Flattops are as strong a frame as the standard model BlackHawks old model Vaqueros. If that's the case, you don't want to shoot the Ruger "only" heavy handloads. I may be wrong, but that's what I was told when I bought my first new model flattop several years ago.

You may be right. Seems I remember something about them using the smaller, New Vaquero series frame for that gun.

DF

Scott, in Dangerous Game Rifles by Terry Wieland, he writes 5744 is a favorite reduced load fuel for the big "elephant cartridges" because it is not dependent on case fill density. IIRC, he stated that it could be sloshing around in some fraction of the case, changing position and still get reliable ignition and apparently consistent pressure. Should be the same in the 45 C case.

Thanks.


I said Flattop but after looking it is listed as a Blackhawk convertible. I will check into it more and make sure. I have not ordered it yet as I do not have the cash in hand and won't order it until I do.

While we are on the subject I was offered it in a blue with extra cylinder for the 45 ACP and a 5 1/2' barrel for $699. This is from a local gut I would like to support. Does that sound about right?

Scott,
MSRP is $699

Through Davidsons Gun Genie I can order it through a local dealer for $553 and 27 are available.

Check online for prices ordering it through Davidsons to your/a local dealer.

That's too high, Scott

Thanks, I will look around.

_______________________________________________

I'm a very big fan, and owner, of Ruger's.

I could blather away but to complement a cogent response please see this informative dissertation:

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger_Bisley45.htm

Just to rehash some matters to contemplate.

* Consider your barrel length when calculating velocity and pressure.

* Determine bullet diameter vis a vis groove/barrel diameter i.e., interference fit and the amount of obturation, squeezing it takes to push the bullet out the barrel.

* Consider bullet type, construction i.e., solid mono-metal, bullet Brine hardness.

* Stay within the burn rate chart limits and recommendations for your particular application. That is usually about 10 numbers/speed above or below the best pinnacle of effectiveness.

* Usually rule of thumb is that the heavier bullets carry more energy and punch than the lighter weights/grains.

Looks to me like you have already received a super abundance of advice from some very experienced and knowledgeable owners/users so my input seems superfluous.

Whoops, I messed up, hit the wrong key.

270 gr., not 170 gr. Thunderheads. I just saw that reviewing this thread.

Here's a link:

https://www.pennbullets.com/45/45270tndrhd-review.htm

Check'em out.

DF

Not a gun writer for sure, but..........for what it's worth in regard to the throat diameters in newer 45 Colt Rugers. I have one of the newer Redhawks, (manufactured in early 2015) and have slugged the cylinder throats. My caliper says they are .452+. My tool only measures to thousandths, so .452+ means a hair over .452. Cast bullets run through a .451 sizing die shoot fine with virtually no leading.