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Posted By: ingwe THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Unsolicited testimonial and book review!!!

If you are a hand loader you owe it to yourself to get this book! John has outdone himself this time..

If you like his well researched no nonsense style of offering up explanations ,advice , and tangible results there is plenty in this book for you.

If you like to dwell on minutae and are not even sure why you do some of it...the answers to ALL of it are in this book! There is even a straightforward chapter on rifling twist that would save a buttload of nasty threads on this forum.

It IS a big book, and it is Barsness at his very best. I just cruised through half a dozen chapters and learned a few new things. Typical JB it is easy reading and thorough in explaining and entertaining.

I may have to buy a second copy just to keep near the throne!!!
Posted By: USMC2602 Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Couldn't agree more.
Posted By: 5sdad Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
An "Amen!" from the back pews.
Posted By: HunterJim Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
I keep my copy adjacent to my desk and ration the amount I read daily: don't want to get through it too Quickly! wink

jim
Posted By: 5sdad Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
That's Ed Zachary what I did! smile
Another Amen from the peanut gallery. I appreciate that the book is printed in a large format with larger, easier to read typeface.

This is not a book to put in your backpack to take with you on your wilderness hunt.

This is a big, heavy book that is worth its weight in gold.
It would make a terrific Christmas present to yourself, or any true rifle loony that you know.
Posted By: VernAK Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
A great book that I had intended to be my winter's reading but winter has hardly begun and I've completed my first perusal.....
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Originally Posted by HunterJim
I keep my copy adjacent to my desk and ration the amount I read daily: don't want to get through it too Quickly! wink

jim



I already have the impression that it could be read, and re-read...learning stuff that you missed the first time!

It is 'comprehensive' and covers all gack!

Think I'll keep my copy at the loading bench!
Posted By: Steveco Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Had mine spiral bound at Staples. Lies flat and makes the big book easy to navigate.
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Thats a GREAT idea! laugh
Posted By: Steveco Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Had my coy of RLN The First Five Years done at same time. Well worth it!
I'm doing just that now. I finished reading it cover to cover in about 3-4 days (couldn't put it down), now, just like the RLN book, I am constantly going back to it and re-reading sections. Bought one for my dad for a Christmas present, but I couldn't wait till then with my copy!
Posted By: gnoahhh Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Alright already. Y'all convinced me. (Actually I've been meaning to but I hadn't got around to it.) I clipped $32.50 to the radio collar of a whitetail and pointed him in the direction of Montana. I told him John and Eileen would have a treat waiting for him when he got there. smile

Seriously though, I hope those electrons I scrambled in their direction materialize in their inbox.
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Thanks, Tom!

The book seems to have taken on a life of its own. Only a fraction of the "official" reviews have appeared so far, but since we started taking orders in mid-October Eileen hasn't had much time to do very much work on her next cookbook, which was moving right along until then. But there are worse problems to have....
Posted By: mjbgalt Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Ingwe just likes it so much cuz he is mentioned in it a few times lol

And shrapnel and Steve and ....

Someday I am gonna do something stupid enough to be worth a mention like you guys did lol
Y'all have crashed their server!!!

Mike
Posted By: shrapnel Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15


I am ahead of all of you, I bought 2 and got the very first copy autographed. The second copy I sold to Travis for $54.00, so I ended up getting mine for free...

[Linked Image]
Posted By: 7x57STEVE Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
JB's The Book of Gun Gack is very likely the best book written containing the most important information concerning
rifle ammo. If you don't know anything about it, or if you think you know it all, or even if you really do, JB's book will take you to new heights.

It's not a close call!

Steve
Posted By: Godogs57 Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Got mine last week, along with Eileen's cook book. Wow...that thing is loaded with tons of info and like ingwe said, it's heavy.

Great reading folks...on both books....you owe it to yourself to order them.

Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
7x57Steve is right, apparently our website is getting too much traffic: You can look at all the books and other stuff, but not order 'em!

We have our web provider working on it, but in the meantime if you want to order something, either e-mail [email protected] or phone 406-521-0273.
Posted By: navlav8r Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Originally Posted by shrapnel


I am ahead of all of you, I bought 2 and got the very first copy autographed. The second copy I sold to Travis for $54.00, so I ended up getting mine for free...

[Linked Image]


Shrapnel, how did you get Number 1? I got Number 1 too...




Kidding! grin
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Originally Posted by mjbgalt
Ingwe just likes it so much cuz he is mentioned in it a few times lol




That just increases its credibility, and in the long run, its value! laugh


How could it not be fantastic, if I'm in it?
Originally Posted by ingwe
Originally Posted by mjbgalt
Ingwe just likes it so much cuz he is mentioned in it a few times lol




That just increases its credibility, and in the long run, its value! laugh


How could it not be fantastic, if I'm in it?
Gonna need some hip waders,getting a bit deep. whistle laugh
Posted By: RickF Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Didn't we all get #1 of 500? wink
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Well, except those that waited and got 1 of 1000....
Posted By: handwerk Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Yep another great book JBs put together, tons of good info in there.....Thanks John!
Posted By: BC30cal Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Mule Deer;
Good evening to you, I trust this finds you and Eileen doing well.

As I've already mentioned my copy landed safely on our side of the medicine line about a week or so back.

Not only have I found it a grand read thus far, the buddy I mentioned who picked up a RAR .243 came over last weekend and was asking about a good load to try in it. Of course I pulled out my fresh copy, showed him the data you'd printed using a RAR and said "this is the guy who said yours should shoot as good as it does." grin

Anyway John, not that you need another vote for a good book, but here's one from me anyway.

All the best to you and Eileen this Christmas season.

Dwayne
Posted By: Prwlr Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Mule Deer,

Great Gack couldn't put it down even calibers I don't reload.

A Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and Eileen.
Ed.
Posted By: JGray Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Ya know Tom, this is all good but some of us are holding out waiting for Savage99 to give his official review / endorsement prior to ordering cry Oh wait - I already ordered my copy and yes, it's all you say... wink

Speaking of two copies, I know darn well I'd ordered JB's Rifle Troubleshooting and Handloading book over a year ago but for the life of me couldn't find it. Assuming I had just imagined it, I ordered another copy of that one with my Gun Gack book. Of course I found my first copy as soon as the second one arrived...
Posted By: HawkI Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Originally Posted by shrapnel


I am ahead of all of you, I bought 2 and got the very first copy autographed. The second copy I sold to Travis for $54.00, so I ended up getting mine for free...

[Linked Image]


I ordered two and now read in his signature there is no 222 Magnum data....WTF? wink

Oh well, if LoadBooks ever calls for mag Deuce data, I'll be able to cash in on that market....
Posted By: Valsdad Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/10/15
Originally Posted by nifty-two-fifty
Another Amen from the peanut gallery. I appreciate that the book is printed in a large format with larger, easier to read typeface.

This is not a book to put in your backpack to take with you on your wilderness hunt.

This is a big, heavy book that is worth its weight in gold.
It would make a terrific Christmas present to yourself, or any true rifle loony that you know.


grin You bet it did, I got my two from the first delivery a few weeks back and my brother just got the one I sent him for his birthday/Christmas present this week.

I like loonies as they are so easy to shop for, thanks to Mr Mule Deer!

Geno
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/11/15
Thanks, Geno!

However, the website isn't making shopping easy today, since it going in and out. Our web provider is out of town and isn't going to be able to get to his own computer until later today. In the meantime, anybody wanting GACK can still call Eileen at 406-521-0273.
Posted By: mmgravy Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/11/15
Have to agree with you Tom.... a great, great read not to mention a reference guide for years to come. Anyone who has not ordered one had better get it done!
Posted By: PaleRider Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/11/15
Originally Posted by ingwe
Originally Posted by mjbgalt
Ingwe just likes it so much cuz he is mentioned in it a few times lol




That just increases its credibility, and in the long run, its value! laugh


How could it not be fantastic, if I'm in it?



Leopard thong centerfold comes to mind....... grin

Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/11/15
Originally Posted by PaleRider
Originally Posted by ingwe
Originally Posted by mjbgalt
Ingwe just likes it so much cuz he is mentioned in it a few times lol




That just increases its credibility, and in the long run, its value! laugh


How could it not be fantastic, if I'm in it?



Leopard thong centerfold comes to mind....... grin




No. I couldn't possibly....




John is a dear friend of mine, and I don't want to steal his thunder..... cool
Posted By: MtnBoomer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/11/15
Originally Posted by mjbgalt
Ingwe just likes it so much cuz he is mentioned in it a few times lol

And shrapnel and Steve and ....

Someday I am gonna do something stupid enough to be worth a mention like you guys did lol


Hey, I made him the "lucky trade" for the 7mm Remington Express brass! Thank you thank you thank you....

Best of all though, the large print made me feel young, cause I didn't need reading glasses!
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/11/15
The large print was very deliberate, partly because we know the average rifle loony is older than the average American--and partly because we are!
Posted By: mmgravy Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/12/15
And the print size is much appreciated John!!
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/12/15
Originally Posted by mmgravy
And the print size is much appreciated John!!



+1
Posted By: 338Rules Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/12/15
I received my 3 Books plus Bonus Camo Loonie Hat yesterday !
(Big Gack, Optics, Shotguns for WingShooting)

Ordered through Eileen, sorry for interrupting John's birthday lunch with my phone order, but Thank You for the expedient delivery !

Happy Birthday to me !

I was pleased to note that there was no Ingwe thong centrefold anywhere apparent, whew ;-)

I did immediately don my new fav' camo Loony hat, testing for fit etc. before heading to the reading room for the initial perusal.

The large print format of Gack will be useful for propping up at a distance and testing optics in the evening.

Shotguns for Wingshooting is an amazing bargain for the content & format. I haven't barely opened Optics for the Hunter, but this is right up there with John's earlier Obsessions, and Tuning books.


Excellent reading thus far, and highly recommended.

Cheers, and a Merry Christmas to all


Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/13/15
338Rules,

Thanks for the nice reviews!

Eileen’s life is being interrupted quite often these days by phone calls, but she likes talking to rifle loonies so that’s OK. She even purchased one of those hands-free ear-buds this summer so she can talk to rifle loonies while she’s in her new custom kitchen, experimenting with recipes for her next cookbook! She can multi-task much better than I can, though I do end up doing most of the driving this time of years so she can answer the phone….
Posted By: CP Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/13/15
Yep-it is a good read... CP.
Posted By: bowmanh Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/13/15
Yep, it's a great book. It's a book that you can re-read multiple times and still pick up new details.
Posted By: AggieDog Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/14/15
That was my experience with the book also. I could not put it down until I read about every cartridge you wrote about, John.

Some of them explained your responses to several of my cartridge questions over the years.

I especially love your opening remarks and "Warning"....

Great Read!
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/14/15
Thanks very much!
Posted By: Pugs Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/15/15
Originally Posted by Steveco
Had mine spiral bound at Staples. Lies flat and makes the big book easy to navigate.


Office Depot did it for me and added a clear plastic and heavy black plastic back for $4.63.

Looking forward to the read and thanks to buddy 7x57Steve for the early Christmas gift. It's going to be good reading out at camp.
Posted By: HawkI Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/18/15
Superb gack book and highly recommended...

John is one of the great stewards of the trade and a great person to boot.

FWIW, "The Rules" are in this book; it can save a Looney some time before a "creation" or build is dreamt up, even if the architect is hell bent on ignoring them!
Posted By: mudhen Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/18/15
Ordered one for a buddy yesterday. Afraid to buy one for myself. blush
Posted By: EdM Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/18/15
I decided that when I retired (this past June) that I was done learning and would spend my time doing what I learned outside of my prior occupation. With that, I am intrigued by this thread, in particular the OP's recommendation given his character.
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/19/15
Hi Nate,

Glad you like the book!

A small group dipped into the Templeton Rye last night, but there's still about an inch left in the bottle. Or at least there was when I left....
Posted By: Bearcat74 Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/25/15

I was gifted my book last night by the wife. I've already started on it and it's excellent!
Posted By: GRF Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/25/15
I bought one to gave away in a Christmas book exchange (bought the trouble shooting book for myself), if I don't get The Big Book of Gun Gack in the exchange i will buy another for myself.

Merry Christmas all.
Posted By: beefan Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/25/15
I bought two copies as gifts for friends. I sneaked a look at a couple of chapters in one of them, and extracted a promise from the other to loan his copy to me immediately after Christmas.
Posted By: kandpand Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/25/15
Received my copy today as a Christmas gift from my wife. Looking forward to reading it.

Merry Christmas
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/25/15
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Hi Nate,

Glad you like the book!

A small group dipped into the Templeton Rye last night, but there's still about an inch left in the bottle. Or at least there was when I left....




Its gone now...... whistle
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/25/15
Well, it did last a year and a half after Nate imported it to Montana. Not bad for whiskey among a certain crowd!
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/25/15
It was carefully guarded and reserved for special occasions! grin
Posted By: HunterJim Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/26/15
I lucked out with a bottle of Pappy van Winkle's 12-yr old last year; good stuff but did not last anywhere that long. This year making do with Elijah Craig and Buffalo Trace.

Just read the chapters on the Accurate 25s and Two .25-20s. Very interesting history to those...

jim
Posted By: BRISTECD Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/26/15
My wife is good to me. There was a copy of the "Big Book" under the tree. 'Course I already knew it since I carried in the mail and saw where it was from.
Posted By: 405wcf Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/26/15
The ladies in the house made sure there was a copy under the tree yesterday.

Just started it and it's a great read.


Thanks for the large type!!!!

405wcf
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/27/15
You're welcome! The large type was Eileen's idea, since many of our readers (like us) are getting to be of a certain age.
Posted By: 7mmMato Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/27/15
You are going to have to write more books. Cause I read thru them way to fast. Good job on the book.
Posted By: RevMike Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/27/15
Originally Posted by 7mmMato
You are going to have to write more books. Cause I read thru them way to fast. Good job on the book.


John:

I haven't ordered "Gack" yet but I will once things slow down a bit, especially since the Ingwe Special has been given a new lease on life by helping to manage Florida's feral hog population. I'm assuming you have included a chapter or so on this classic cartridge.

Anyway, I agree with 7mmMato: you need to write more, most specifically a book on your African adventures. Africana, both old and new, scratches a lot of itches. Just sayin'....

RM
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/27/15
7mmMato,

Glad you like it!

Generally, we try to alternate books: Eileen will write one every other year, and I'll do one in the alternate years. Doesn't always work out that way, but that's what we try to do--so next year's her turn.
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/27/15
Mike,

Probably won't do an African book because, quite frankly, "hunting story" books don't sell all that well compared to "hunting gear" books. Or at least they haven't in recent years.

Back in the 1990's books of hunting and fishing stories did at least as well as technical gear books, if not better, but times have changed. THE LIFE OF THE HUNT has sold okay over the past 20 years, but BORN TO HUNT (which many people think is as good, if not better) has barely broken even. They both keep selling, but not nearly as well as books on handloading, rifles or optics.

Posted By: RevMike Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/27/15
Well, now I have two more to order and I see y'all sell them as a combo. By the way, your books sit beside Corbett's on the bookshelf...and his story books have sold pretty well. whistle
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/28/15
My sister, the eastern liberal, thinks " Born to Hunt" should be required reading for anti-hunters. Yes...its THAT good! grin
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/28/15
Thanks, Tom. If we ever have to reprint LIFE OF THE HUNT may just add your sister's comment to the list of recommendations on the back cover!
Posted By: NTG Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/28/15
My copy of "Big Gack" was under the tree! Very good read thus far, however, I really don't see this "youngun" ever getting excited about the 25-20, but who knows!?!

Good stuff, John. Thanks!
Posted By: 7mmMato Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/28/15
Biggest problem with this book is now I need a 35 whelen, a 257 bob to go along with my 250/3000's.A .270 because that is all I really need. A 6.5 creed to do what my 6.5-06 will be able to do. And I need to hunt with my 7mm Rem Mag because it will do it all. And I have never owned a .30-06 how did that happen? I may need a second job by the the time I finish this book.
Posted By: HawkI Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/28/15
Originally Posted by ingwe
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Hi Nate,

Glad you like the book!

A small group dipped into the Templeton Rye last night, but there's still about an inch left in the bottle. Or at least there was when I left....




Its gone now...... whistle


I have no idea what the hell you guys are talking about..... whistle

But I think I've found more; by a fencepost of course.
Posted By: RevMike Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/29/15
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Thanks, Tom. If we ever have to reprint LIFE OF THE HUNT may just add your sister's comment to the list of recommendations on the back cover!


Hey John:

When I order it, do you think you can get Ingwe's sister to autograph it too?
Posted By: SU35 Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/29/15
Great book! Excellent writing of course, and loads of usable information.

Highly recommended to buy.




Posted By: jedgreen Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/29/15
Ok, so if I don't reload, how useful will this book be? I generally enjoy John's writing but if a large portion is about reloading, then I may pass. What say you?
Posted By: gnoahhh Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/30/15
Originally Posted by jedgreen
Ok, so if I don't reload, how useful will this book be? I generally enjoy John's writing but if a large portion is about reloading, then I may pass. What say you?


Knowledge, no matter how esoteric, is a good thing. Yes, it is geared toward the handloader but is chock-a-block full of attendant gun info and hunting lore. Something there for everyone, and I defy anyone to read it and say he didn't learn something new- no matter how experienced or jaded he may be! (Besides, John is an accomplished wordsmith and he could write about chrysanthemum genetics and I would pay attention! smile )
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/30/15
Originally Posted by jedgreen
Ok, so if I don't reload, how useful will this book be? I generally enjoy John's writing but if a large portion is about reloading, then I may pass. What say you?



Not as much about reloading per se as you might think. The book is well worth the price as a read....
Posted By: lastround Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/30/15
Originally Posted by jedgreen
Ok, so if I don't reload, how useful will this book be? I generally enjoy John's writing but if a large portion is about reloading, then I may pass. What say you?



Get the book, read it, and it might just cause a reloading itch that you will want to scratch! Even if you don't reload, the book is filled with info useful to any rifleman.
Posted By: BC30cal Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/30/15
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Mike,

Probably won't do an African book because, quite frankly, "hunting story" books don't sell all that well compared to "hunting gear" books. Or at least they haven't in recent years.

Back in the 1990's books of hunting and fishing stories did at least as well as technical gear books, if not better, but times have changed. THE LIFE OF THE HUNT has sold okay over the past 20 years, but BORN TO HUNT (which many people think is as good, if not better) has barely broken even. They both keep selling, but not nearly as well as books on handloading, rifles or optics.



John;
Good morning to you and Eileen, I trust the holidays have been treating you folks well.

I'm not sure what to think about your results with two of my all time favorite hunting books John. Honestly I've lost track of how many times I recommend them when I'm teaching the BC Hunter Safety CORE course each spring.

Them and of course "Meditations on Hunting" rank up there as a good foundation for apologetic discourse as to why some of us are drawn to hunt.

Anyway sir, Happy New Year to you both and all the best in 2016.

Dwayne
Posted By: mart Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/30/15
Great book John. It will be right next to my Pet Loads volumes and one that I reach for frequently. In fact it goes to the slope with me now every trip so I'll have some good reading while I'm up there for three weeks.
Posted By: Hugh Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/30/15
I received my book for Christmas from Rock Chucker .What a great gift.
Posted By: roundoak Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/30/15
John, your book was on my Christmas list and Santa obliged. I opened to the first page and a question came to mind immediately.

The page shows a damaged rifle with a notation: "Be careful or this could happen to you".

Was this Shrapnel's rifle? grin

Wayne
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/31/15
That's one of the few rifles blown up in Montana that wasn't in Shrapnel's hands, or the hands of one of his shooting companions. Amazing, ain't it?
Posted By: NTG Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/31/15
John,

Just finished it...very good read over all. Thanks. I'm especially excited with the info on the 308 win, as I just traded for my first and I'm excited to get it put together to shoot. Any input on AR-Comp in regards its temp stability? I'm having a hard time finding everyone's favorite pixy dust #AR2208 (AKA Varget) and often see AR-Comp around here. Maybe a PM with more info would be best.
Thanks, and happy new years!
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 12/31/15
NTG,

Glad you liked the book!

Have mostly tried AR-Comp in the .223/5.56, where it works pretty well, though I haven't gotten as much velocity as sometimes reported in my rifles. In the .308 I haven't found it outstanding.

If you can't find Varget, I would definitely try Reloder 15. I realize it also isn't very available right now, but as far as I can tell (after using it in several cartridges) is the same powder. Or at least it does exactly the same things in several cartridges, and is very available right now, due to Western Powders becoming the U.S. distributor for Norma powders a little over a year ago.
Posted By: NTG Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/02/16
Thank you, John. I'll be giving it a go. I talked to a long time 308 long distance shooter, and he liked it, but prefers TAC as it gives less velocity variance shot to shot. One more to try!
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/03/16
Yeah, TAC is also excellent in the .308, but often requires a magnum primer to reduce velocity variations.
Posted By: Pugs Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/03/16
Finally found the right time and place (our camp this weekend) to site back and relax and read through it for the first time. As usual, another collection of solid technical research told in a way that makes it very digestible.

Alas, now I'm wondering if I should anneal my .300 H&H cases and if neck tension is why that rifle seems stuck at 1 1/2" groups with several loads.
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/04/16
It might just be a 1-1/2" rifle, but it doesn't take much to anneal a few cases with the candle method and find out.
Posted By: shrapnel Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/04/16
Sorry to burst your bubbles, but if you are looking for information on 222 Mag, there is nothing for you...
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/04/16
I noticed that right off. I think he did that for you, and you alone.
Posted By: shrapnel Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/04/16
Originally Posted by ingwe
I noticed that right off. I think he did that for you, and you alone.


I think you're right, I got the first book and thought it might be added in a later edition...

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Pugs Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/04/16
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
It might just be a 1-1/2" rifle, but it doesn't take much to anneal a few cases with the candle method and find out.


It's a sickness to try and get it under an inch knowing fully well that that is adequate for anything (other than paper!) that I am going to shoot with it.

Not wanting to get too technical, but you said hold the case until you can't. Did you by chance hit it with a laser thermometer to determine what that temp is?
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/04/16
No, but the method was developed by Fred Barker, who used heat-temp paint to test it. (I've also tested it the same way.) Hold the case in the middle of the body with your fingertips, and when it's too hot to hold the case is annealed.

This is exactly the same method Charlie Sisk used in the example cited in the book, which shrunk groups from over 2" to 1/2". Of course, that was in one of the accurate rifles Charlie builds, shot on an indoor range.

On the anti-loony side, I've found any rifle capable of averaging 1-1/2" for 3-shot groups at 100 yards is accurate enough for hitting big game in the heart-lung vitals to at least 400 yards.
Posted By: 5sdad Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/04/16
John, the anti-loony statement is something that we all need to remember.

On the candle-annealing topic, it seems to me to be kind of like driving progressively heavier trucks across a bridge until it collapses to find out its weight limit. When I try to hold the case until it is too hot to hold, I burn my fingers with the first one and after that I can no longer tell anything. It must be remembered that I am completely maladroit.
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/04/16
I'll have to mention that possibility in Gack II!
Posted By: 338Rules Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/05/16
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I'll have to mention that possibility in Gack II!


Even Bigger Print ?
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/06/16
Originally Posted by Mule Deer


On the anti-loony side, I've found any rifle capable of averaging 1-1/2" for 3-shot groups at 100 yards is accurate enough for hitting big game in the heart-lung vitals to at least 400 yards.




There are no anti-loonies on this site. there is no need to be pushing your 'common-sense' agenda here.....
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/06/16
Oh, yes there are, but they tend to be grumpy old men--unlike you, who's generally a non-grumpy old men, even though you grumble now and then.

I have heard grumpy old men sometimes get put on "ignore" on the Campfire, but I don't put anybody on ignore. Consequently I can read their grumpy old posts, thus keeping my finger on the pulse of a wide cross-section of shooters. This is strictly due to my attempt to maintain some semblance of objectivity in what passes for journalism in the rifle-loony world.
Posted By: Pugs Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/06/16
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
This is strictly due to my attempt to maintain some semblance of objectivity in what passes for journalism in the rifle-loony world.


You're just asking to be put on ignore. grin
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/07/16
That makes sense, because for there to be balance on the Campfire, anybody who posts even semi-rational stuff should be put on ignore equally as often as Savage99.
Posted By: DaveinWV Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/11/16
I'm patiently waiting for my copy to arrive. Laid up with one hand but I can read and learn. I'm more excited than Richard Simmons with a wheel borrow full of buttholes!
Posted By: jpb Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/11/16
Originally Posted by DaveinWV
I'm patiently waiting for my copy to arrive. Laid up with one hand but I can read and learn. I'm more excited than Richard Simmons with a wheel borrow full of buttholes!

Geez, thanks for THAT mental image! eek sick grin

John
Posted By: JTPinTX Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/11/16
I got my copy of Gack at Christmas, but am just now getting around to starting it. So far it have liked it very much.
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/13/16
Always good to hear that....
Posted By: jeep9776 Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/13/16
Just ordered mine and a copy of Slice of The Wild. Am anxiously awaiting their arrival!
Posted By: DaveinWV Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/13/16
My copy arrived today. I've read the first two chapters and told my wife this book has already paid for itself.
Posted By: dawaba Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/19/16
I've really enjoyed my autographed copy of GACK. And boy, was I surprised to find a chapter on the old .25-20. I am the 4th generation owner of a Winchester M92 bought by my great grandfather around 1907 and passed down through the family, where it now resides in my gun safe. The bluing and the bore aren't top-notch, but my father used it to kill a small whitetail buck around 1939, when he was barely a teenager. I will pass it on like those who went before me, and it will never leave our family. At least that is my fervent hope.

I have a question for John (and others). You wrote that you have settled on 26.0/TAC/50gr Nosler BT as your go-to recipe for varmints in the .223. I have long used 26.5/H335 behind the same bullet, but I plan to switch to TAC down the road because of its cleaner-burning characteristics.

Do you have a similar go-to combo for the .22-250? I'm a bit old school in that I still carry a .22-250 along on my PD hunts for a change of pace. I generally shoot the 50 NBTs here as well along with the occasional 52 Sierra HPs. FWIW, I've probably culled more Texas whitetail does with the 63 Sierra semi-pointed out of the Varminter than any other bullet by a wide margin, and that's out of a 14" twist barrel.

None of my PD buddies bother with the .22-250 anymore, so I'm the last one carrying the flag. There has to be a few of us left that are still shooting sod poodles with the .22-250. What load, if any, have you found to be nearly universal in several with the Varminter?
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/19/16
Dawaba,

Glad you're liking the book!

Back when I loaded all my rifle ammo with three powders, which sounds like a big deal but isn't when you only load for a few rifles, my standard load in the .22-250 was around 36 grains of IMR4895. (The other two powders were IMR4350 and H4831.) It normally shot well and got around 3700 fps from a 24" barrel.
Posted By: NTG Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/19/16
John,

Are these loads for the 52gr pill...? I'd assume, but best to know for sure. Thanks.
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/19/16
I used it with everything from 52-55, usually 55's.
Posted By: Pugs Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/20/16
Why is it that every shootingfishingwoodworkinghuntingcarhouseboat book I buy is just the tip of the iceberg that leads to more spending? cry

The BBoGG is no exception. To be fair, I had the concentricity gauge but the TruAngle tool is new.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: msquared Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/20/16
I was really enjoying the book. Then, I started reading the .308 chapter and realized the author skipped right over .29. What's up with that? I feel cheated!
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/21/16
I considered including the B-29, but my editor/publisher talked me out of it....
Posted By: msquared Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/21/16
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I considered including the B-29, but my editor/publisher talked me out of it....


Would O'Connor have not talked about the .270? Or, Keith the .44? Think of all those .29 aficionados starved for info for their rifles! ( Oh, and thanks for another great book).
Posted By: NTG Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/21/16
B-29...why would you talk about airplanes in a gun book? Oh, wait, it had guns on it! I get it! 50BMG, M2, 20mm...where's the chapter on them? wink
Posted By: RevMike Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/21/16
Hi John:

I just got back from a conference in Orlando and found the books I ordered had arrived, safe and sound as usual. Many thanks to Eileen who, I assume, is the shipping department. As soon as I finish Bror Blixen's biography, I plan to start your two books on "the hunt" (packaging them together is a good idea, by the way). I also read a couple of chapters of "Gack." Good stuff! I see why Ingwe started this thread.

One of the comments you made in the chapter on the .280 Remington raised a question in my mind. You mention that the 120 grain NBT has a beefed up jacket that helps it stay together and has turned it into a respectable medium/big game bullet. Did Nosler do that with all of the non-varmint ballistic tips, i.e., beef up the jackets a bit? The only one you mentioned in the "Gack" chapter is the 120. The reason I'm asking is that I ran across a bunch of 150 grain BTs (actually, Ballistic Silver Tips) and plan to use them on pigs, some of which can get to be pretty danged big, and even though the ranges aren't terribly long (all well below 100 yards) I still need something that will hold together a bit but at the same time create enough damage to assure that whatever I hit - in the right place, of course - is DRT. There's almost no way to track something in the terrain I hunt. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. That palmetto behind me is solid for almost a mile. I'm finding that monos are just a tad too tough to create the cup-and-core wound channels I like.

[Linked Image]

Thanks, as always.

RM
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/21/16
Mike,

In general Nosler has beefed up the jackets of most non-varmint Ballistic Tips, except for those that always had very heavy jackets, such as the 200-grain .338.

The 7mm 150 Ballistic Tip has basically the same jacket geometry as the 120, so the base of the jacket is just as heavy. Both penetrate quite well, but the 150 has a higher percentage of core, so usually creates more shrapnel and hence more interior damage. It sure might be the perfect compromise for your pig shooting.

Eileen is indeed the shipping department, along with a number of other jobs, though when things get hectic she sometimes uses an assistant, but he needs pretty constant supervision.
Posted By: msquared Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/23/16
Originally Posted by msquared
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I considered including the B-29, but my editor/publisher talked me out of it....


Would O'Connor have not talked about the .270? Or, Keith the .44? Think of all those .29 aficionados starved for info for their rifles! ( Oh, and thanks for another great book).



OK, I just got to the section on the B-29. I feel much better now! The book has a happy ending!
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/24/16
Ah, yes, the epilogue!
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/24/16
Originally Posted by RevMike
Hi John:

I just got back from a conference in Orlando and found the books I ordered had arrived, safe and sound as usual. Many thanks to Eileen who, I assume, is the shipping department. As soon as I finish Bror Blixen's biography, I plan to start your two books on "the hunt" (packaging them together is a good idea, by the way). I also read a couple of chapters of "Gack." Good stuff! I see why Ingwe started this thread.

One of the comments you made in the chapter on the .280 Remington raised a question in my mind. You mention that the 120 grain NBT has a beefed up jacket that helps it stay together and has turned it into a respectable medium/big game bullet. Did Nosler do that with all of the non-varmint ballistic tips, i.e., beef up the jackets a bit? The only one you mentioned in the "Gack" chapter is the 120. The reason I'm asking is that I ran across a bunch of 150 grain BTs (actually, Ballistic Silver Tips) and plan to use them on pigs, some of which can get to be pretty danged big, and even though the ranges aren't terribly long (all well below 100 yards) I still need something that will hold together a bit but at the same time create enough damage to assure that whatever I hit - in the right place, of course - is DRT. There's almost no way to track something in the terrain I hunt. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. That palmetto behind me is solid for almost a mile. I'm finding that monos are just a tad too tough to create the cup-and-core wound channels I like.

[Linked Image]

Thanks, as always.

RM



Damn!


Thats a good looking rifle! grin
Yup,whomever sold that rifle must have a screw loose. whistle grin
Posted By: oldotter Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/24/16
Originally Posted by Mule Deer


Eileen is indeed the shipping department, along with a number of other jobs, though when things get hectic she sometimes uses an assistant, but he needs pretty constant supervision.


When my wife's assistant gets involved, It usually gets ugly fast, and he is escorted off the grounds shortly there after. whistle
Posted By: RevMike Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/24/16
Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Yup,whomever sold that rifle must have a screw loose. whistle grin


Agree!! grin
laugh
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/25/16
Either that or he's a rifle loony. They're well known for buying OR selling any sort of rifle--which is part of the definition of "loony," a synonym for "has a screw loose."
Yup,been down that road many times. Even heard the phrase "has a screw loose" (or some variant of it) from members of this household,almost hourly it seems like. smile
Posted By: RevMike Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/25/16
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Mike,

The 7mm 150 Ballistic Tip has basically the same jacket geometry as the 120, so the base of the jacket is just as heavy. Both penetrate quite well, but the 150 has a higher percentage of core, so usually creates more shrapnel and hence more interior damage. It sure might be the perfect compromise for your pig shooting.


As an alround hunting round, would you push those to max (i.e. 2800 fps) or back down a bit?

RM
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/25/16
2800 is pretty much perfect! But they'll also work at slower muzzle velocities--and faster.
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/25/16
Mike here is an Axis buck that succumbed to the 150 NBT at 2650....in the one and only Ingwe Special no less...


[Linked Image]
Posted By: RevMike Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/25/16
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
2800 is pretty much perfect! But they'll also work at slower muzzle velocities--and faster.


Hmm...how much faster? Not that I'm brave enough to try it, but I though 2800 was about it with 150s in the 7x57. Was I sleeping during class??
Posted By: RevMike Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/25/16
Originally Posted by ingwe
Mike here is an Axis buck that succumbed to the 150 NBT at 2650....in the one and only Ingwe Special no less...


[Linked Image]


I recognize that old rifle! Are those the same old NBTs I have in the box that is postmarked Montana?
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/25/16
Yes!
Posted By: RevMike Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/25/16
Well, Ingwe, i'mm'a need that recipe!!
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/25/16
48.0 grains of H4831sc COAL is 79mm

grin


You can also use regular H4831 or Winchester WXR.....same weight.
Posted By: RevMike Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/25/16
Gracias! I have a couple of porkers that might not be so gracious.
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/25/16
laugh
Posted By: jorgeI Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/26/16
Book arrived yesterday, JB. I am enjoying it very much!
Reading my copy a second time. smile
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/27/16
Jorge and elkhunter,

Always good to hear about people enjoying the book--including second readings!

In a conversation at the SHOT Show many years ago, John Wootters noted that hunting and gun writing is "mostly entertainment," especially when compared to what he termed "real journalism" (which John did for a while when younger). So while I do try to provide some information, I also like to hear when readers find my work somewhat entertaining.
Posted By: jorgeI Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/27/16
John: I especially liked the 348 article. If you remember, you and I had discussions when I first got mine a couple of years ago and you suggested some loads that worked out perfectly and it was nice to see them in your book. Kinda like "inside baseball" for me smile
Second readings are always a good indication of how well the book/article is written. smile

Waiting on my copy of "Selecting And Ordering A Custom Hunting Rifle."


Shameless plug there. grin
Posted By: ongie Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/28/16
Great book, I always learn something new when reading John's stuff.
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 01/29/16
Thanks!

I learn something new about rifles and handloading every week, which is probably why I've kept fooling with both for so long....
Posted By: bobnob17 Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 02/07/16
My copy just arrived in the post John at work. I opened it and just looked through the start of it, but hastily put it away for fear I'll get nothing done today!

Looks great, thanks to you and Eileen.
Posted By: HunterJim Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 02/08/16
John,

I have completed my first reading of Gun Gack, and I especially liked the .30-'06 chapter since you used your NULA for the loads and I copied your specs for your M24 when I asked Melvin to build mine. Except my paint scheme is prettier of course.

Can you add the .375 Ruger to GGII, and also some words on the newer chronograph technologies, please and thank you?

Anyway, thanks for writing it...

jim
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 02/08/16
Thanks, Jim. There will be several additions to Gack II, in fact it will probably be a totally new volume, rather than an updated version.
Posted By: 5sdad Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 02/09/16
John, very good idea on the completely new versus updated. Looking forward to it.
Posted By: Moses Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 02/10/16
Is the website down?
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 02/10/16
It comes and goes, because it was put together on a now-obsolete program. Out web server is working on it, but apparently it isn't totally fixed yet--and he may be working on it right now. But it is up most of the time.

If anybody wants to order a copy of GACK, the easiest way is to contact Eileen: [email protected] or 406-521-0951.

Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 02/12/16
I've checked the website several times over the past couple of days, and only once was it unavailable.
Posted By: 5sdad Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 02/12/16
Phoning Eileen is easy for technologically-challenged old people like me; plus she is very pleasant to talk to.
Posted By: Leonten Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/06/17
I read the introduction and the first chapter. At that point I contacted a buddy of mine and told him he had to buy the book. It's a different type of reloading manual. Most reloading manual's have a dry straightforward one page article about the cartridge. A couple of reloading manuals have many different authors discuss the cartridge. Again one page articles.

However, the "Big Book of Gun Gack" has about three pages dedicated to each cartridge. It's well written and I'm glad I bought it. Every cartridge that I shoot (except the 257 Roberts Ackley improved) is listed in the book.

I highly recommend it to all reloaders.

Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/06/17
Thanks. Glad you like it!
Posted By: mudhen Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/07/17
Bought one for a friend who called me a few days later and said that he could hardly put it down. Guess that I should buy one for myself...
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/07/17
You bought it for him without knowing what was inside?
Posted By: mudhen Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/07/17
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
You bought it for him without knowing what was inside?
It came highly recommended. grin
Posted By: mudhen Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/07/17
And I owed him a favor, and that was something that I thought that he wouldn't buy for himself.
Posted By: MojoHand Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/07/17
Bought my copy and found it highly fascinating and informative but....

When I got to page 333 I knew it was keeper for life! laugh



[Linked Image]

Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/08/17
And he hasn't aged a day since!
Posted By: The_Yetti Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/08/17
Just ordered a copy yesterday, can't wait to get it!
There are many great tips for better ammo and the only thing better than reading the book is loading some ammo with John's tips and hitting the range. smile
Posted By: GreggH Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/08/17
Hopefully my copy went in the mail today. Cant wait. Thanks Mule Deer!

GreggH
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/09/17
Yep, your GACK headed out yesterday afternoon with a personalized inscription. The Deep Creek Press CEO decided long ago that ALL books would be signed before shipping, and special messages would be part of the deal. Of course, we don't guarantee the message will be legible, only that there's no extra change. :-)
Posted By: GreggH Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/09/17
Heck I am impressed the CEO still answers the phone! Thanks again.
GreggH
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/11/17
Actually, I'm not the CEO. That's Eileen. I'm primarily a lowly "content provider," the current phrase some use for "writer." Though often I'm also recruited to carry boxes of books here and there.
Posted By: EdM Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/11/17
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
And he hasn't aged a day since!


Have you slept in a bed next to his lately? grin
Posted By: EdM Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/11/17
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Actually, I'm not the CEO. That's Eileen. I'm primarily a lowly "content provider," the current phrase some use for "writer." Though often I'm also recruited to carry boxes of books here and there.


I assume it is a female majority owned enterprise?
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/11/17
Yep! She started the website, and has been running it now for over a decade.
Posted By: The_Yetti Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/12/17
Got my book yesterday, that's some fast service! Can't wait to dive in it.
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/12/17
Good to hear yours got there quickly!

Most do, but one copy just spent six weeks spinning back and forth out of what we call the "Denver Vortex" before finally being delivered. We've now had two book packages spend considerable time in Denver, because the Denver USPS occasionally sends one to the wrong state. This 6-week package was supposed to go to Nebraska, but instead went first to Cheyenne, Wyoming, from where it was returned to Denver. It was then sent to Great Falls, Montana. It made a couple more trips to Cheyenne and Great Falls similar before finally making it to Nebraska--which borders Colorado, so you'd think they'd know where it's located. The Denver Vortex might be due to Colorado's legalization of marijuana, but who knows?
Posted By: NTG Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/12/17
Love the humor, John. Thanks
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/14/17
Good to hear! But rifle loonies are a naturally amusing group of humans.
Posted By: bigwhoop Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/14/17
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Good to hear yours got there quickly!

Most do, but one copy just spent six weeks spinning back and forth out of what we call the "Denver Vortex" before finally being delivered. We've now had two book packages spend considerable time in Denver, because the Denver USPS occasionally sends one to the wrong state. This 6-week package was supposed to go to Nebraska, but instead went first to Cheyenne, Wyoming, from where it was returned to Denver. It was then sent to Great Falls, Montana. It made a couple more trips to Cheyenne and Great Falls similar before finally making it to Nebraska--which borders Colorado, so you'd think they'd know where it's located. The Denver Vortex might be due to Colorado's legalization of marijuana, but who knows?


I hope it didn't get dog-earred!
Posted By: OSU_Sig Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/15/17
When I received my book I promptly took it to Kinko's and had it spiral bound. I lays open very well that way. I got the idea from someone here on the fire but I can't recall who it was.
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/15/17
We might consider spiral binding for future printings, though it would probably up the cost a dollar or so. We already do it with Eileen's cookbooks so they'll lie flat on a kitchen counter.

But a lot of rifle loonies prefer traditional stuff. I'd be interested in hearing opinions.
Posted By: Pugs Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/15/17
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
But a lot of rifle loonies prefer traditional stuff. I'd be interested in hearing opinions.


I had mine spiral bound. Downside is the title is gone. Upside is I don't have any other spiral bound on the shop shelf to confuse myself.
Posted By: Leonten Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/15/17
I like a regular bound book. A cook book is different. It needs to be read while cooking. So a spiral bound is better for reading the recipe while cooking.

When it comes to a reloading manual, I use it as a reference. Then I work up a load. Once I have a load developed, I transfer the information to an excell spread sheet then print it. And file the sheet into my 3 ring binder.
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/16/17
Thanks for the feedback. Anybody else got an opinion on bound vs. spiral?
Posted By: RevMike Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/16/17
John:

Bound volumes fit in my bookcases better, and what I've found is that over the years the inside page edges of spiral bound books tend to bugger a little. My preference has always been for regular bound books and manuals, but I can certainly live with spiral bound as well.

Just my $.02

RM
Posted By: jeffbird Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/16/17
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Thanks for the feedback. Anybody else got an opinion on bound vs. spiral?


Definitely bound. Spiral bound pages always end up tearing out on the most referenced pages.

Really enjoyed reading the book for the stories even more than the data. Nice interesting read.
Posted By: Azar Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/16/17
I'd have to agree with:
Spiral bound for cookbooks, regular for reference books.
Posted By: HitnRun Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/16/17
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Thanks for the feedback. Anybody else got an opinion on bound vs. spiral?


Spiral will last longer. Regular binding, especially paperback, will come apart. Those that prefer a regular binding, probably aren't even real loonies. A real loonie will be using the book so much, it will fall apart.
John, I just ordered a book. I live in Columbus Mt. Let's see what the Denver Vortex can do. smile
I have had things shipped from the east coast and have it get to Billings and then go to California, then back to Billings and of course go right past my town to Missoula and then back to Billings and then to Columbus.
Let's see what happens,
Ken
If it was a straight load manual, I would vote for spiral, but since its so much more than a regular load manual, regular binding works better!
Originally Posted by HitnRun
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Thanks for the feedback. Anybody else got an opinion on bound vs. spiral?


Spiral will last longer. Regular binding, especially paperback, will come apart. Those that prefer a regular binding, probably aren't even real loonies. A real loonie will be using the book so much, it will fall apart.


That's what duct tape is for!!!
Posted By: Steveco Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/16/17
I had mine spiral bound along with RLN and prefer it. Regular binding splits and then the pages fall out. Also, it's nice to have the book lie flat when open.
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/16/17
Would definitely like to hear from anybody who's copy of GACK splits and has pages fall out. My experience is that even regular-bound paperback books hold up very well--if put together correctly.

I still have the first copy of GUN DIGEST I ever purchased, back in the 1960's, which has been read a LOT! The binding's still in fine shape.
My personal copy of GACK (which is referred to VERY often, partly to make sure I remember what I wrote) is from the first printing, almost two years ago, and is also in fine.

We've been using our present printer for a few years now, and have had very good luck with them, but are always looking for ways to improve.
Posted By: JayJunem Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/16/17
On my copy, the first two pages of the contents are coming loose along the bottom two inches or so. The glue of the binding has cracked or separated in that area.It gets a little worse whenever I open to the contents pages. I got the book right after it came out, so first printing I believe?
John,

I had my copy spiral bound and I am very happy with it.

I will note that after the spiral binding there is very little margin left on the inside edge of the pages. The printing and the holes are slightly overlapping toward the end of the book, but everything is readable.

This may just be the fault of Office Max, who did the binding for me. If there was a bit more margin to begin with, this probably would have worked a bit better.

The responses seem to be evenly divided. Maybe you could offer both versions.

I do greatly enjoy the book.
Posted By: 7x57STEVE Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/17/17
I had mine spiral bound and it has held up beautifully.

Glad I got it, but the major advantage is the incredible amount of very helpful info in the book regardless of the binding. It's a sweetie!

Steve
Posted By: davidsapp Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/17/17
Waiting on mine now, I'd planned on buying it a few months months back but this thread finally pushed me over the edge. Also got RLN while I was at it. Fantastic writing by one of the campfire's best

David

Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/18/17
Thanks!

And thanks to everybody else for feedback on the binding question. Would especially be interested in hearing from anybody who's had trouble with their copy coming apart.
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/18/17
Im liking the Spiral bound idea too.... grin
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/18/17
Is yours coming apart?
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/18/17
No. but it would be easier to lay flat on the loading bench for easy reference. grin
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Thanks!

And thanks to everybody else for feedback on the binding question. Would especially be interested in hearing from anybody who's had trouble with their copy coming apart.


John,
I am in my 44th year in the printing industry and the perfect binding on this spine and yes, I have my copy too, is designed for a lifespan, commonly 1 to a few years. The next step up to explore would be Burst Binding which is the individual folded signatures glued into the spine.

Only the binding machine changes as perfect binding cuts off the folded spine portion anyway which is created on the Signature folders. (If Sheet Fed printed)

A book that is designed for a life time, not that any of us have another period that long in front of us, is to have the signatures stitched into a case bound hard cover version.

That is why many books are released that way and when sales wane, at that point the perfect bound copy gets released as that market segment, doesn't tend to value books as a life long investment.

Burst Binding will increase the cost marginally but should not be prohibitive considering your market recognizes the value you bring to this industry.

Wiro and Spiral binding is likely to me more costly and can look "tacky" like and old Lyman reloader book.
John
PS: Got mine last night and have only flicked through it so far.
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/18/17
John,

Thanks very much for your input, as I was actually thinking about contacting you about this question. We have looked into spiral binding, since we've done it with three of Eileen's cookbooks, but it would indeed be very expensive for a book this size--and since the shipped price is already $32.50, it would increase the price to over $35, which is a definite stick-shock level these days. The Burst Binding sounds like a good deal.

However, we are also thinking of giving the next printing a wider margin on the spine side, for anybody who wants to have their own copy spiral-bound.

Hope you enjoy your copy!
John,
On that basis, with a wider margin you have another cheaper option if the reader doesn't mind, that being, to have the inner edge stapled. Maybe even 2 staples would be adequate but you will need an old time printer these days to find the find of stitcher I am referring to.

Some binders also apply a tape strip over the staples along the spine and wraparound to prevent scratches and minor cuts. You would have seen that on some older style heavier covered books already.

Only downside it is is handwork and not automated but could also be done in smaller batches to spread the costs?
John
Would it be impractical to offer your books in different bindings, MD?
I ordered Gack , Troubleshooting , and Looney news on the 15th. I can't wait for them to get here. I am catching up on looney news fast! Lots of great info in there. Thanks J.B.
Posted By: OSU_Sig Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/19/17
Originally Posted by ingwe
No. but it would be easier to lay flat on the loading bench for easy reference. grin

Which is exactly the reason I had mine wire bound.

I believe it was 7x57Steve who gave me the idea initially.
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/19/17
RiverRider,

From what I hear from readers, the vast majority are fine with the present version. Let's say 10% aren't, which is a far higher percentage than we've heard from even after asking here. Any sort of manufacturing (including printing books) always results in a lower cost the more units are made in a single run. If we took 10% of our average print run and had it spiral bound, the cost would be hiugher per book.

We decided early on to get our books printed in the U.S. rather than overseas, even though it costs more, and to offer a delivered price up-front, rather than adding "shipping and handling costs" afterward, as so many Internet companies do. We've also been printing and selling books for more than a decade now, and haven't raised prices. Both printing and shipping costs have gone up considerably, to the point where we're going to have to raise prices sometime in the next couple of years.

Am pretty sure that if we offered spiral-bound copies AND raised our prices to adjust for the past decade's cost increases, spiral-bound of copies of GACK would have to be priced around $45-50 delivered, a big jump over our present price of $32.50. So most likely we'll keep printing them the same way, though with a larger back-margin to leave more room for customers who get them spiral-bound.
Posted By: 338Rules Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/20/17
MD : OK my 2 Loonies -

Love the book, but hated the shipping cost to Canada.

For me, I'm especially impressed with the coverage of some of the obscure ( to me ) calibers, with the insights that you present so succinctly.

I was, and still am focused on the sections dealing with the .280 .338s and .22-250 ; My personal favourites.

If you are planning on a Bigger ( & Better ) Book of Gack, I would highly recommend a pdf type format with printable loading pages.

Updates for new sections, like Pet Loads, but new age e-format OK

Don't know how you would control distribution, but the savings on shipping alone would be well worth it - ;-)
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/21/17
338Rules,

All interesting ideas--which we've considered!

We feel your pain on shipping to Canada. When we first started the riflesandrecipes website a decade ago, mailing a book to Canada was almost as cheap as mailing it in the U.S., but it now costs almost 10 times as much to mail a book to Canada as it does inside the U.S. In fact, we have several Canadian customers who live fairly close to the border who rent post-office boxes in the U.S., just so they can get stuff they order from U.S. companies without paying an arm and a leg.

But there are several problems with e-printing. One for us is that it tends to garble data--and data is a major part of our publishing, whether handloads or recipes.

The other problems are how to keep it from being pirated, and how to make any money. The last is part of the reason e-books have dropped considerably in popularity over the past three years, when they once looked like the future of publishing: Major book publishers must actually charge pretty close to their prices for new printed books to make e-books worthwhile.

At the same time, many readers started going back to paper books. Surveys have found most of these report "screen burn-out." Much of their day is spent on computers or their smart-phone, and when they get home and want to read something, they're tired of looking at screens.

This may be even more true of hunting/shooting writing. I had an interesting talk with the owner of a major hunting/shooting publishing company at the Safari Club Convention last month. He started e-printing several books a few years ago, when it started to become a hot deal, and reports sales have dropped--and even at their peak, revenues from his e-books were never more than a tiny percentage of his company's profit.

We've had e-printing books on our radar for several years now, but haven't done it for all of the above reasons, plus the fact that the number of our readers who've requested e-books can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Our own small venture into e-publishing, our quarterly "magazine" RIFLE LOONY NEWS, has never grown much since we started it almost a decade ago, despite only costing $8 a year. We sold more copies of GUN GACK in its the first month than we have RLN subscribers, which indicates our readers prefer paper.

Folks have preferences for nearly anything and everything, I think. I am the same. I prefer vanilla ice cream, but you won't see a bowl of chocolate melt in front of me. When I shop for something to read, the binding of the reading material is probably the very last thing I would think of, but I might opt for hardcover if it's something I want to keep. I'd suggest that what you're doing now is working fine, MD.
Posted By: 5sdad Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/21/17
John - I have some thoughts on the whole thread (naturally). First off, as I've said before, it's a great book.
On the binding issue, I am fine with the current system, but I do see the point of being able to keep the book flat in use. As to wire spirals, I have seen too many of them become flattened through abuse to the point where it is very difficult to turn the pages without damaging them. The large, plastic spirals are better in this regard, but less desirable in others.

I salute your desire to have books printed here in the U.S.

I also salute your decision to present the book in an "out the door" price, with no shipping or "handling fees" which in reality are just "hey, give us some extra money fees". Those commercials where they are so kind as to give you a second product FREE (just pay a separate - secret - handling fee) are transparent robbery.

I think that your assessment of e-books is spot on. I think that it is not only myself and my fellow dinosaurs who prefer to hold a book in our hands.

Finally, it is refreshing to find a producer of any kind who not only listens to his customers, but actually solicits their opinions.

Best, John
Posted By: Azar Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/21/17
John,

I have to agree with the "screen burn-out". I figured this out more than 20 years ago when the world wide web became the hot new thing. I didn't like reading on a screen if I could get the same material in a book. Less eye-strain, more comfortable chairs, what have you. I even like the smell and tactile feel of a book. I am still this way and prefer to get my copies of Handloader magazine in print form. The only thing I prefer to have in electronic format is technical documentation as it makes it easy to search and find what you are looking for rather quickly. While "Gun Gack" straddles that line I will continue to order the print form of your books regardless of whether you offer an electronic edition.

For our Canadian brethren, would it be possible to contract publishing to a second publisher that resides in Canada? I don't know if you have a contract with the original that would prohibit this, but perhaps it would alleviate some of the rising shipping costs? But then again, maybe that would be more trouble than it's worth...
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/21/17
5sdad,

Thanks for your post. One other little bit of evidence concerning e-books and our customers is that we've sold more of the paper copies of RIFLE LOONY NEWS: THE FIRST FIVE YEARS than we have subscribers! And the book costs a lot more than a year's subscription to the e-version, especially when considering that every back issue comes with a subscription.
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/21/17
Azar,

One thing I forgot to mention is that one book store in British Columbia carries some of our books, and stores can amortize shipping costs by order a number of books. As I recall, that connection occurred because a reader suggested hunters would buy 'em. If we could find a distributor in Canada it would really help, but so far no luck.
Posted By: Jerseyboy Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/21/17
I don't know about everyone else, but I like to have a book in my hands. I have a desktop computer, two tablets, and a smart phone. I still prefer paper pages! Yes, I'm old fashioned.

I have most of the books Eileen and John offer and have sent them as gifts. I'm sorry, but an e-book gift doesn't cut it!

I'm not older than dirt, but I remember when mud was invented.
Posted By: Prwlr Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/21/17
Originally Posted by Azar
I even like the smell and tactile feel of a book.


^^^^^^^^^
This

Though I am enjoying using my Kindle Paperwhite with Kindle unlimited ($120/yr). It allows me to "rent" many books which I could not afford to purchase. I can read 8-10 books a month easily. Including some reloading manuals such as the ABC's of Reloading.
Posted By: Pugs Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/21/17
Originally Posted by Jerseyboy
I don't know about everyone else, but I like to have a book in my hands. I have a desktop computer, two tablets, and a smart phone. I still prefer paper pages! Yes, I'm old fashioned.

I have most of the books Eileen and John offer and have sent them as gifts. I'm sorry, but an e-book gift doesn't cut it!


Agreed and as I was fooling around in the shop another + to spiral binding came to mind since my copy often sits on my workbench open to an article or section and gets read a few pages at time. Sure, I can easily stick a bookmark in John but you ask! grin


Posted By: GreggH Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/21/17
Received my copy the other day and am enjoying it. Great job Mule Deer.

GreggH
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/22/17
Thanks!

Am planning to publish GACK II in 2018 or 2019, some of the decision depending on when Eileen gets her next game cookbook together. This year we're publishing THE BIG BOOK OF BIG GAME HUNTING, which will be just about exactly the size of GUN GACK and contain a mix of advice and hunting adventure.
Posted By: ingwe Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/22/17
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Thanks!

Am planning to publish GACK II in 2018 or 2019, some of the decision depending on when Eileen gets her next game cookbook together. This year we're publishing THE BIG BOOK OF BIG GAME HUNTING, which will be just about exactly the size of GUN GACK and contain a mix of advice and hunting adventure.


DUDE! I will look forward to both!
Posted By: RevMike Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/22/17
Originally Posted by ingwe
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Thanks!

Am planning to publish GACK II in 2018 or 2019, some of the decision depending on when Eileen gets her next game cookbook together. This year we're publishing THE BIG BOOK OF BIG GAME HUNTING, which will be just about exactly the size of GUN GACK and contain a mix of advice and hunting adventure.


DUDE! I will look forward to both!


^^^^This!!^^^^
Posted By: Azar Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/22/17
+3.

What's Eileen's new cookbook focused on?
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/22/17
One-dish meals. She developed a dynamite venison stew last week, but it will also include birds. They tend to evolve as she works on 'em.

Since she also hasn't done many fish recipes since writing two fish cookbooks in a row a while back, and is starting to get idea for at least a booklet on fish rubs and brines. Which would also get us out fishing more!
Posted By: Azar Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/22/17
Sounds excellent!
Posted By: Mule Deer Re: THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK - 03/23/17
Yeah, I particularly like the idea of fishing more. :-)
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