Gentlemen,
I apologize for this being bit off topic, however, I was curious what your favorite point and shoot pocket camera is for taking unexpected and close shots in the field for later publication? For the purposes of this discussion I am setting a camera price limit of $1000 akin to the Sony RX100 iV...

Much obliged, Matt.

Canon G series, they are now up to the G16. If my G12 croaked I'd replace it with a G16.

I use an Olympus Stylus series camera. It takes the best pictures of any point/shoot I've seen. The only down side it doesn't take batteries. It will hold a charge for over a week during cold weather hunting so it hasn't been an issue. I have an extra charged battery in the camera case.

This. My G12 has been an awesome little camera.

I'm perfectly happy with the Gen I for a lot less money than the IV... with stuff like cameras I prefer to buy behind the technology curve and save money. These things are upgraded yearly and the differences can be managed with gnat tweezers.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/869238-REG/Sony_DSC_RX100_Digital_Camera.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/28/t...ographers-can-love-state-of-the-art.html

Matt,

The two point-and-shoots I have aren't anywhere near $1000, mostly because taking photos for most hunting and shooting magazines doesn't require all that much, due to the limitations of printing relatively small photos on paper which isn't always top-notch, though there's one exception among the magazines I work for.

Save yourself $500 and get a G16.

I use a Pentax Optio WG1 for my fly fishing articles. Nice pocket size point and shoot, great for candid pictures.
Even in Canada it only cost around $300.00. 14mp, waterproof, I have used it take underwater shots. I have had it for a few years now, works great.

Another option would be the Canon S120 or older s110. Same sensor as G16, wider angle lens(24-120)than the G16(28-140) but smaller camera overall. Only downside is having to deal with more menus than the G12's exterior knobs.

Have not used or owned one but have read great reviews of the Ricoh GRII. For a little more than half your budget it uses an APS-C sensor like many pro crop sensor cameras and has a great lens albeit fixed at 28mm equivalent.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/searc...earch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=

Gentlemen,
You truly don't know how much I appreciate your input and it could not have come at a better time... I had just placed a $1300 plus order with Amazon and when I happened to check back here and read through your individual thoughts on the matter... In short I likely set a record canceling an order and dealing with their Customer Service. Time for some more research. Thanks to each and every one of you again...

Merry Christmas!

Best Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270

Btw, I did keep the Thule Covert Camera Bag... I've read they are well put together.

I won't rebut any other brand mentioned; but, as an "advanced amateur" I concur with the recommendations of the Canon G series, G10 through G16 and the Canon S series, S100 through S120. The earlier numbers in both those series (G9, G10, G11, G12, S100, S110) can now be found at very reasonable prices and are excellent cameras.

Matt, I compared the Canon G's extensively with the Sony RX's and opted for the Sony. For my needs I found it the better camera, but I doubt you could go wrong either way...

My favorite is the Lumix (Panasonic) DMC-ZS50. In size, it will fit any loose pocket in a shirt or jacket. It turns on within just a few seconds, there is no wait time between shots as the camera records the image, the zoom is incredible (nice for pictures of a dog on point without having to get right up to it and disturb things), and it has sufficient pixels for magazine quality photos without having so many pixels that the low light shots (think about when the deer are active)have sparkles in them. Too, it has a view finder so that when the sun is bright and at my back, I don't have to deal with a washed out screen.

The drawback is that it does not come with an external battery charger, so that has to be bought separately.

Matt--whatever camera you are about to choose, look at dpreview for their take on it. Also Ken Rockwell's reviews are extremely well done.

One thing to beware--avoid those cameras with high lag times between pressing the shutter release and actual shutter function. Also avoid cameras with extremely large zoom ranges, like 25 or 50 to 1. Best lenses are typically only 3 or 4 to 1. Look for the largest sensor.

Gentlemen,
Again I greatly appreciate the input... Thank you.

Brad,
I've been looking at this for two months rather hard and I'm kind of sold on the RX100s for better or worse. Having handled, shot, and otherwise felt the rest and I came away much impressed with them again fwiw. That said I think I was getting in a bit over my head with the extra option on the RX100IV. Going back to take a look at which "retro" model to go with...

Regards, Matt.

fwiw, I should have learned something about buying the newest, latest, and greatest by the manufacturer's PR machine. I traded a superb BA & BN 8x42 Leica for the Ultravid BL which were being delivered by the hand of god or so I was told. Have never been that disappointed in optical performance. My BA & BN were Shot Show Samples and hence hand picked. My Ultraved BL were picked off a shelf, thrown in a box, and sent off to my soon to be disgusted hands... Been a Missouri boy ever since then...

fwiw,
I could have spec's three custom rifles in the time it has taken me to go through the details on these cameras. I have read and appreciate what everyone has said but I'll damned if choice can't be over whelming on occasion...

Tis a G16 or an RX100 of a little more modest flavor... We'll see.

Brad,
Do you shoot any Video with yours? That was one reason I was looking at the IV. It has 1080 AND 4K...

Regards, Matt.

Best thing you can do Matt regarding cameras is after you buy one, never read another thing about cameras ever again. Well till it breaks anyway. Every 3 months, 50 new models come out and they are all vastly superior to the previous.

Yes and yes.....

Yes Sir, I can see hard won wisdom in that recommendation...(laughing and planning to heed that advice)

Actually own a book titled The Paradox of Choice that kind of sums up how having unlimited choices is really not all that we think it is.. Turns out to be a hell of a chore in the end...imho & fwiw.

Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270

I have been using a G15 for several years and it has been great.

Just don't use it out in the rain for very long because it is a royal bitch to disassemble and dry out.

[video:youtube]https://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice?language=en[/video]


Pretty interesting stuff and how you can make a living watching guys argue about riles....

Matt, the Canon G12-G16's are just not in the same league as the Sony RX100 I-IV's, decent though they may be.

The Canon G12-16s have a substantially smaller sensor (1/1.7) than the Sony RX's 1-inch sensor, as well as fewer MP's. Sensor size is one critical component that separates the bulk of P&S's from larger Micro 4/3 and DSLR cameras. Sensor size, MP's, lens quality... all go to image quality.

The unique beauty of the Sony, apart from its outstanding Zeiss lens and substantial MP's, is its large 1-inch sensor. The only compact P&S Canon makes that competes with it is the PowerShot G7X, but I prefer the Sony. And yes, the Sony's video is outstanding.

Here's the place to start that investigation...

https://www.google.com/search?q=powershot+g7x+vs+sony+rx100&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Sensor sizes for comparison:

Brad,
I appreciate the footwork, however, I found an RX100III at Overstock.com for $649.95 and pulled the trigger last night. I know I could have spent less with a I or a II, however, I need the camera for the holidays and that is roughly $150 off of any other price I've seen for that model. Whether it gets here in one piece or not is another question. We shall see...

I came close to buying from Crutchfield as they give you 60 days to use the camera and return it unharmed for a refund or an exchange. That said VA taxes and their $150 premium on the RX100III was a bit to much in the end. Suppose I will see if I made a mistake in a month or two...

Much obliged to Everyone...

Matt.

Sounds like a great deal.

Thank you Sir. I hope it turns out to be. I have no illusion that the weak link in this whole endeavor is not me. I've rarely taken the time to learn to use ANYTHING to it's full potential. That said I see myself losing photo ops with my family, dogs, farms, etc. that just float by unnoticed unless you are able to freeze them for a fraction of a second. The unfortunate part is that I've started late, however, it is no doubt better than perpetually starting next "year" that never comes...

Merry Christmas to you and yours..

Regards, Matt.

Overstock often sells grey market cameras and doesn't disclose that... yours will likely come without a USA warranty, hence the price.

I buy from reputable retailers like Cameraland or B&H.

Brad--that's a good point.

Also I might mention that, for anyone buying a grey market Nikon camera or lens, not only will Nikon US not warranty it, but they will not even WORK on it if you offer to pay them.

With cameras, there is a saying.....".if it sounds to good to be true"......it don't have a USA warranty..... Just went through all this with a G16 after seeing all the ads on ebay with prices $50-$100 less than B&H or CL. NOT ONE had a Canon USA Warranty. Every one stated FULL Warranty.....USA Dealer......USA Warranty.....etc etc

Yes, buyer beware. Lots of people buying the grey market stuff. And maybe most of them never have to obtain warranty or post-warranty service. Nikon US has their west coast service center less than a 30 minute drive from me. That, and the fact that independent camera shops have badly screwed things up for me in the past, have taught me the true value of buying legit.

Anymore, grey market = trouble. Years back it wasn't as big a deal.

Last grey market camera I bought was a Nikon FM in 1983... bought it in NYC over the counter. Thing is, like Leica, Nikon's from that era don't need warranty work. My son just graduated from film school yesterday and used that same Nikon FM in some of his classes... still going strong.

Even if they are likely to make it through the warranty period, they will still eventually need a CLA (clean, lube & adjust), which I would prefer done by the manufacturer. Of course Nikon (and others) probably stopped carrying parts for old cameras decades ago. My primary camera is still the F3.

My '81 F3, that I bought used in 1999 as senior in high school, is still going strong but I have had it CLA'd twice. Like anything mechanical, if you use it you must maintain it.

Brad,
Thank you for the heads up. Bastard shipped so I have to wait for it to arrive and send it back. They are covering shipping both ways...

I'm beginning to lose my sense of humor on this whole camera deal. I called B&H and got a slick Yankee with a package that was put together at the speed of light and had no individual prices. Do believe I am going to call Cameraland. Called Doug to begin with, however, they put me through to another guy who said to forget the RX100s and look at Olympus Stylus... Nice camera but NOT what I wanted... Think I'm going to call and insist on talking to Doug first and see what we can work out...

I'll be damned if I am not COMPLETELY SICK of the entire camera concept by now. I will never again feel like I am playing 40 questions when a guy is unsure about a $3500 plus Schmidt Bender. A $1000 worth of Sony and accessories has about put me into a pseudo meltdown... I should have never canceled the first order.

As a matter of fact I can order from Crutchfield tomorrow and have it Tuesday free shipping and One day delivery in Virginia. I get 60 days to use the camera, and if it is to much I can send it back and replace it with a III or a II or a I...

What a year to give up drinking and to go on a diet... If this does not totally suck it will have to do until Hillary Clinton is elected...

Regards, Matt.

Matt--perhaps you are rushing this a bit too hard. Take your time to perform proper due diligence so you will be certain to get just what you want. It is true that whatever you choose will be obsolete within a year or so. Can't worry about that. But take the time it takes.

pal,
Believe this or not, however, I've been reading and quizzing compact camera dealers and enthusiast for two months. I have actually found it fairly difficult to find a store with the RX100IV in stock and it never occurred to me at the time to buy one of the older models. Brad's post, to say nothing of the many other opinions that i greatly appreciate rang true. Having been royally hosed by Leica on optical updates on binoculars that WERE NOT UPDATES, but a repackage and a $800 gift to the sausage eating kraut who built them, should have made me suspicious...

Here is my take on this entire thing. I have been putting this purchase off for 10 years and I don't want to think how many moments with my farther(8/08') or my brother(3/09') to say nothing of my labrador Sam(1/13') I totally MISSED. I know that if I would have bought a G16 or an RX100IV or III or II or what the hell ever I would have more pictures to remember the closest people in my life by... Touchy subject AND THE PROBLEM has been my problem with having the "best" whatever the hell that is...

My father came to Colorado in September or October of O5' to go through Grand Teton and Yellowstone. I took time of from The School of Trades and we made a quick trip WITH his second wife who has, at most, two IQ points running in a circle to generate heat. THAT DID NOT stop her from this constant equine fecal matter from the back seat that largely wanted me to help her to the edge of the falls... Bitch(hate that word but so fits her)NEVER shut her mouth for a moment to enjoy the splendor. There was no cutoff from a low room temperature IQ and her mouth.

Told dad we would go back, just he and I, when I went home. Moral of the story I was ready to plunk $5K in Canon L Lenses and a decent body down for our once in a lifetime trip. Had a girl that proved to be an issue to leave and hence we went the southern route.

Dad got home and had a couple decent years until he found out he was riddled with more stage iv cancers that I care to admit. I would tell him we were going to make that trip back to Yellowstone to buoy his spirits... Ask me how much I would have paid for that $5K of gear and going back when I said we would go back while he was healthy? Twice? Maybe even three times... Priceless.

Moral of the story of this is that I am sick of dicking around with cameras and I am going to buy a G16 or an RX100 of some flavor from a stand up dealer and call it money well spent. Some times you have to pay to play. I can't tell you how much I wish I had done this 15 years ago... Priceless.

Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270

Buy a Canon G16 from B&H, take advantage of the awesome rebate and nearly free Canon Pixma Pro 100 Printer package, and go out and take pictures--then print them. That way after all the computers crash you'll still have prints to look at.

When you talk to he guys at Cameraland, be sure to ask for the Campfire discount. As I remember, it was 10% off my Fuji and accessories.

Don't let perfection get in the way of good enough. I have a small Panasonic Lumix that easily fits in a pocket and takes rather nice pictures. Maybe if they were put side-by-side to the Canon or Sony you could tell a difference, or maybe in a particular situation such as low light. But you'd never felt you missed a memory.

Tag.

Good thread. Thanks to all

Matt--I completely understand. Though, today, you'd still be facing the problem of upgrading that 15-year old camera.

Over that same 15 year period I have tried many times to buy a digital camera I liked. The first one I bought I resold to a friend the same day, realizing it just wasn't for me. One I bought used, on c/l, catastrophically failed within months. Another new one I traded to another friend after taking just 2 or 3 photos; just couldn't get comfortable with it. The controls on all of them baffled me, with their endless menus.

A few years ago I tried again, picking up an obsolete, but near mint, Nikon D200, which would accept all my film camera lenses, albeit at 2/3 of full frame. This one I've kept, though never really connecting to it; just using it for internet photos, not my artistic photographic endeavors. What I really wanted was camera that would accept all my lenses, but that would have mostly analog primary controls, like all my film cameras.

Still trying to fulfill my need for a pocket-sized point and shoot, digital camera, like to take fishing, last month I began again searching in earnest for just about what you're looking for. After pretty much deciding between a couple of them, my renewed searching accidentally led me to discover that Nikon had, 2 years before, introduced the Df, a digital camera of roughly the same compact size as my beloved old film cameras, with analog primary controls, that would accept all my lenses, and had a full frame sensor!

I found a good deal on a mint used one. And there went my budget (and then some) for the point and shoot for which I had been searching.

I used a Kodak Retina 2A folding compact 35mm for years when I worked in Montana and Idaho in the early '60's. A great camera and rugged too!. It fell from an airplane and landed on the drop spot and survived! OK, I know it isn't digital, but it is (and still is) rugged and it is my favorite camera.

Matt, again, a G16 is NOT in the same league as the Sony RX's... the only Canon that is is the G7X.

Panasonic does not make a P&S comparable quality-wise to either the Canon G7X or Sony RX's.

Order online... Cameraland or B&H. Don't pick up the phone, use the internet. It's that simple.

pal,
I may have had to struggle through the years with upgrading my digital camera, however, my point was that I would have the pictures, aka memories recorded on paper, which is more than worth any misery related to the ownership and maintenance of a digital camera. Pictures that are impossible to replicate today at any cost...

You know I think THAT is about the best argument for buying whatever the hell you want, within reason, and taking as many pictures of the "good" times as humanly possible. I can think of a thousand situations where I would have loved to have had a first class pocket camera and this thread has really brought that realization home. It was my mistake for canceling the first order though Brad's advice was as solid as a rock. Chasing technology and even optics can be an expensive and fruitless task... That said I would have never missed the $1300 I had set aside for the original order and i would have been learning to use the camera by now. At the present I am waiting on a grey market "deal" that has to be sent back and I'm still likely to buy a III or IV from a reputable dealer.

I actually called Doug at Cameraland to begin with and I was humorously told he was as ignorant about digital cameras as I was... Sad situation but nice not to row alone;-). At any rate the guy they forwarded me to spent five minutes trying to sell me on an Olympus HARD... The problem, at least for me, was that camera was about halfway between a pocket camera and a DSLR. This is NOT the direction I wanted to go in... As I tried to convey to him I wanted an advanced point and shoot that will fit in shirt or coat pocket. I further explained if I had to carry a DSLR, like my second proposed trip to Yellowstone, I would go with a full frame sensor Canon DSLR and a couple, at a minimum, Canon L Series "primes". Granted the second option would include taking a photography class and that was not what I was looking for at the moment. I explained I had owned and used a Canon EOS Rebel(early film version) that was about to die(a Christmas gift when I was about 12) and a early Fujifilm Digital that came with a hated Gateway Computer that was purchased while I was away at school in 2001. While not a pro, or even advanced amateur, this was not to be my first rodeo... Feeling like I had gotten my point across I waited and the guy reiterated his recommendation for the Olympus. I thanked him, largely for ignoring my requests, and decided to move on...

I do believe I am going to buy from Crutchfield. They are based in Virginia and have one day delivery to any spot in the state. I will have to pay tax, however, I will also have 60 days to make up my mind, pack up the camera and ship it back for another, and start again... You also have a lifetime of expert phone support for free. Dunno what that is worth, however, talking you through a problem cannot be completely ignored...

I would also like the thank everyone who took the time to comment on this thread. Your input is been greatly appreciated whether or not I go with the camera you suggested or not realize I did look at it seriously...

Merry Christmas Gentlemen...

Regards, Matt Garrett

Brad,
I read you. I will be going Sony RX100 of one flavor or another... Just as I intended to buy from my earliest research and talking to the guys at Crutchfield... They are no more expensive than the discount houses, are based in Virginia, and have one day shipping. Not to mention 60 days to use and return the camera in like new condition for a refund or replacement until you find the one you like...

Appreciate the input...

Regards, Matt.

I'm far too late to opine on this, so I'll just say this:

Matt, the camera you have IN YOUR HAND when "the moment" comes is the best camera there is. The camera in the catalog isn't.

Which was part of my original point when I stated that neither of the P&S digital cameras I have right now (one of which has been my primary pocket camera for around a decade) cost anywhere near $1000. The old one’s a Canon and the new one’s a Nikon, both with tiny sensors, but they have taken thousands of photos that have been published in many magazines, including a few 2-page spread. While the tiny sensors don’t produce the detail a studio photographer would want for a BIG print, they do fine for magazine work when paired with my Canon DSLR.

Most importantly, however, when I’m out there working, their straps are ALWAYS around my neck and the cameras in the right-hand pocket of my shirt, so they can be jerked out and used when a quick opportunity arises, whether while out hunting or in camp.

I picked up a G15 a couple years back. Its been a great camera for me as well.

You only live once: screw the price ceiling and get a Leica Q.

That said, as a former USN photographer I've got a little different standard than most for what constitutes an acceptable camera. That said, with a pretty expensive, pretty capable Nikon SLR in the bag I find I take most of my pix with my cell phone these days.

Gentlemen,
Your collective points are not lost on me. Though I fear you would not bet on that statement of fact...;-).

Regards, Matt.

This truth is lost on many. More megapixels comes with, uh, difficulties, of their own.

Larger sensors and more megapixels are two separate issues.

Gentlemen,
The "grey market" RX100 III arrived and I could not help taking it out of the box to get a general feel for the camera. A few observations in no particular order...

1. Made in China.
2. So small that I find it difficult to hold on to...
3. Super Solid build quality...
4. Tiny buttons and to many of them...
5. Just about nothing in the box to help you on your way.

Can't say this is a platform I want to invest in right this second... No doubt it screams well built AND feature overload. I have relatively small hands and this thing makes me feel like I am going to drop it short of a death grip. Tiny... Dunno.

Regards, Matt.

fwiw, Slowly growing on me...

Matt, many use an additional grip for the RX's... there are several available. Grey Market cameras generally have no instruction booklet or CD.. the USA warranty version has both included.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1061077-REG/sony_ag_r2_attachment_grip_for.html

http://www.kleptography.com/rf/#camera_rx100

Excellent reviews here:

http://www.dpreview.com/

I use nothing but Nikon Cameras

Brad,
I've thanked everyone collectively a couple of times for their input and I sincerely meant it, however, I would like to thank you individually once again for actually replying with a link or two to address every issue I have mentioned as significant... In short much obliged once again.

Regards, Matt Garrett

Gentlemen,
You would never believe it. I happened to be looking at a Leica Q online and my Mother stopping by and asked if "that" was the digital camera I was going to buy. I said "Not hardly, though I would love to have it.". She responded with "Why don't you buy it if you want it?"... I said "because it is $4200 plus..." She said "Merry Christmas my Dear Boy" I doubt I am going to spend the $4600 on a Leica Q, however, it was one hell of a nice Christmas Surprise...

Merry Christmas Gentlemen!

Regards, Matt

Your mom gave you a Leica Q for Christmas? Ask her how she feels about adopting a Vietnam vet in his second childhood.

pal,
When it came time to be receive mothers I got brushed down the back with a golden brush and I am not talking about Christmas Presents... I'm actually thinking of using it to buy a new Mark Penrod .30-06' that I've had my eye on as of late. Then I'll buy a camera...

No $4250 digital wonders for me...

Regards, Matt Garrett.

fwiw, the Penrod Model 70 in .30-06' has been SOLD for "some time". Would it be asking to much to indicate that on your website?