Guys, I find myself at a bit of an empass in my quest for firearms. I figure y'all might give me some help. Let me explain.

I started buying firearms over 35 years ago. I have never been a big fan of buying just to be buying, and I have never sold one. Once in a while I see something I "just gotta have." However, mostly I buy things that fit some perceived need. I hunt deer and turkey mostly. I get out and do a little squirrel and coyote as well. I'm somewhat over-subscribed on deer rifles, and I have everything I need for everything else. I have a nice rack of 22's for plinking.

The problem is that I have an itch to buy, and I just can't find anything I really need, or for that matter want. Take deer rifles as an example. I can now shoot a deer with any of about 9 chamberings. In 30-06, I have a whole closet full. My last purchase was a Ruger Hawkeye in '06, and I swore it would be my last. If I wanted to, I could hunt with a different rifle every day and not have to repeat until the second week.

This is not the first time this has happened. Back in 2003, y'all pointed me towards a Savage 99. It is still my favorite deer rifle. In 2006, y'all suggested a Remington 7600 in 35 Whelen. It's bagged more deer than any other rifle at camp over the past 10 years. Last winter I had a similar problem, but I found an answer that at least helped me a little: I started casting bullets. That was fun while it lasted.

So what's next?


Here are some current thoughts in no particular order

1) a .223 REM bolt gun that I work into a real tack driver.
2) I don't own a 12 SXS. Most of the time I would use it for squirrel or turkey, but I'd like to get out bird hunting again before I die. I'd like one that takes choke tubes.
3) I an enamoured of the Browning BLR, especially the stainless. I've thought that 7mm-08 might be a good choice.
4) 375 WIN is one of the chamberings allowed under Ohio's new deer hunting regs. However, I have not hunted Ohio in over a decade.
5) 44 Mag is allowed too. I keep trying to think of a reason to buy a ruger semi or a Ruger or Marlin lever.
6) I have a basket-case Rem 742 in '06 that I've been thinking of sending to Ahlman's for a pump conversion, but I have so many 30-06's and I have a nice pump in 35 Whelen.
7) I have a basket-case 8mm Mauser that needs work. #1 problem is that the scope mount is boogered. I'm scared to put any more into this thing.

How about a single shot 38-55 that you can cast bullets for, duplicate .375 ballistics if you want to, and kill a deer in the second week so you don't have to duplicate for one more day, and you can shoot cowboy bench-rest with it if you want? Easy shooting, accurate, and doesn't take much powder, can load it ranging from squirrel rifle to deer thumper. I'm having a Marlin .30-30 re-bored as we speak, but I could go for one of the rare Ruger #1S, or even a little sharps. Just my $.02.

I like numbers one and two, though I don't currently own a sxs shotgun, I've always heard a 16 is perfection in proportion.

I'd go 16, or a 28? I just like stuff a little different...

Before I read old70's reply, a vintage 1885 in an obscure caliber to shoot cast bullets went through my mind as well
Or a 64 or 71 winchester.

If you're casting bullets, you might try one of the old Savage/Stevens bolt action 30-30s plus a Williams peep sight. With gas checks and 170 grain bullets, it's accurate, fun to shoot a CHEAP. You do have to feed round nose bullets manually.

The lever action pistol chamberings are also a blast to shoot. Locally, we get bullets for $.06, so you can shoot a 44 Mag darn near as cheaply as you can shoot a 22.

If you've got a range with a steel plate rack, a basic 9mm handgun can be a whole lot of fun.

A wife.

You have too much time, money and control over both. A wife will fix all that for you.

Actually, I have KYHillChick and she feeds the addiction.



That's her with "God's Will," a Savage 30-06 I bought her after she had a dream that God wanted her to be able to shoot at a distance. That day we were picking off milk jugs at 450 yards.


Y'all are giving me good ideas. Keep 'em coming.

in your situation, I'd start looking for good stainless revolvers. A nice S&W 686 comes to mind

I'd go for #1 on the list, everybody needs one of those.

What are choke tubes? A guy ought to have a 1 1/2 frame Parker S/S 12ga to accompany him in the hills...lots of history go with the American side by sides and good books on each.

Speaking of 35s, had a lot of fun with a Model 81...:)

This!

Shaman,

A fast twist .223 in the 7.5lb range (scoped) is VERY tought to beat.

A Ruger 77/44 could be full UBE. Have it suppressed, and you'll probably die happier than if you hadn't.




Travis

Look for a target shooting club or hunting club that interests you.

Discover some event or helping run one from marks men ship competition to helping with the juniors team.

Here is just one of the events at a club I have been a member of for a very long time.

If you chose the SxS shotgun, be sure it fits you. I own two brands, Beretta and CZ. The Beretta shot high, the CZ's shoot low and left. The Beretta was fixed by adding a false rib to the concave rib between the barrels. It's now good on pheasants. The CZ's should have some kind of pad added to the comb, but currently I "cheek" the stock with my upper jaw instead of my cheek. It works most of the time.

You all are bringing up good points.

Question:

Which 223? The first one that pops in my head is a Ruger American.

The bolt 30-30 has been one I've been toying with for over a decade. I think the only thing that stops me is the bad luck I've had with 30 WCF in the past. Savage 340's are still good?

I'm intrigued by the Ruger 77/44. Would you all suggest that over one of the older semi's or levers? I like the Marlins and the Rugers.

Shotguns: Yeah,I really don't know where to get fitted for one. I had a heck of a time, early on, with my Rem 1100. I finally got it pointing where it needed to go. I may hold off on that for now.

Stainless handguns are another good idea. I sometimes think a Ruger Super Redhawk would be cool to own. I have a Super Blackhawk.

Ah...I see you have chosen wisely and found one who shares your passions. Good move!

Why don't you buy something in the gun line for her? You'll certainly get to do all the fun thinking and workups that go with a new toy and you'll reinforce her love of guns and the outdoors.

Otherwise, I like the suggestion for a SxS shotgun. I suggest Francottes as the 'Knockabouts' are fairly reasonable on the used market....

I like the Ruger 77/44 idea. They are light weight, have a detachable rotary magazine, you have the option of open sights or mounting a scope, and you can easily upgrade the trigger with a kit from Volquartzen. I also find them to be easier to load/unload than a lever action. I have owned both the 77/44 and the 1894 Marlin and I liked the 77/44 better (my 1894 was one of the dreaded "Remlins").

Another suggestion I haven't seen yet is one variation or another of the Ruger Single Six. This is one of my favorite handguns and it would make a nice companion for your Blackhawk.

Shaman,

You told us you already have all the rifles and shotguns you really need.

But you have only mentioned one handgun.

You need to meet RJM who hangs out on the handguns forum. He has lead a few of us to the dark side. GRINS He is a great proponent of the 41 magnum.

I also am a fan of the less popular cartridges. I have been having a lot of fun exploring the capabilities of the 41 mag. I started casting for the 41. I cast 175, 210, and 255 gr bullets in 41 cal. I load 165's as light as 650 fps, or 255's as high as 1350 fps from a SBH bisley hunter model.

I have a very modest collection, about a half dozen centerfire rifles, a 12 ga pump, 20 ga pump, a few rimfires for the grand kids, and a half dozen revolvers.

Of this tiny collection, five are 41 mags. And there are a couple 327 mag revolvers. One of the 41's is an 1894 Marlin with a Williams aperture sight.

I understand Henry is now making a fine steel frame lever in 357, 41, 44, and 45 LC. And the Redhawk is once again available in 41.

The Single Seven in 327 mag has been a lot of fun. Mine is 4.625 inches. A 78 gr Lasercast over 3 gr of Universal shoots about like a 22 magnum. My eight year old grand sons absolutely love it. Or a 115 gold dot over 13 gr H110 is only slightly shamed by the 357. I also shoot these in the new 4.2 inch SP 101.

shaman,

You need a B-29. Either that or a 24-gauge side-by-side.

How about a Colt Diamondback?

Shaman,

The RAR in .223 will have you shooting jugs, groundhogs, crows, and all manner of things year round. Fun, and great practice. Set it up similar to your favorite large caliber bolt gun, and commence to having a blast.

You're probably right. Hmmm. Now that you mention it, I have that Rem 742 in the closet. I could have it re-barreled at the same time I'm having the pump modification done. Ahlman's doesn't show it as one of the choices, but maybe you could lend me the reamer.

24 GA is out. I'm scared I'd get the loads mixed in with my 20's. I did that once with 16 GA shell on a bird hunt luckily the 1100 didn't come into battery.

You bring up very good points. The problem is that I'm probably not a real gun loony. At times I show signs of it, but I have this nasty practical streak. I'm not proud of it. I'd much rather be sitting in my reloading cave plotting how to get 280 REM performance from my 7.5X55 Swiss (or is that the other way around?)

The truth is, I've managed to put together a fairly complete collection of everything I need, and I did it well before hitting 60. I suppose I have you guys to thank for that, in part. It also goes back to hanging out with some really great fellows early on.

Pistols. Hmmmm. That might be an interesting diversion. My only big problem is that I filled all the big niches over a decade ago. I keep thinking about it, but it is hard to see the benefits of a .327 over .357.

The only big change in my shooting non-hunting shooting habits has been in my relation with the coyotes. They got to be a real problem last year. A neighbor had one make a run at him while he was walking between sheds. I had a pair go after my dogs. My response was to issue a standing order at camp: all persons going beyond the curtilage were to go armed. At the same time, KYHillChick and I both got our CCW's. I did not want to get picked up for carrying a loaded firearm in the truck, just because I'd forgotten to unload.

'HillChick has had a GP100 for 10 years. I had a Ruger P90. I added a Ruger LCR in .357 Mag in the spring for in-town 2-legged vermin. Depending on the mood, I'm now carrying either a Ruger Blackhawk or a Marlin 1894 in .357 Mag, depending on my mood. However, as you can see, I'm being waaaay too practical, mostly re-purposing what I already had.

I'm beginning to think the .223 REM idea is the way to go this time around. I have a Savage 340 in .223 REM. But it is not the best platform for starting out on a quest for accuracy.

You need something with a larger bore. A Marlin in 45-70 or a custom 45-70 on a Siamese Mauser.

I've always thought 45-70 rifles were missing something, specifically trunions. However, I'm open to being convinced.

Recoil-wise, I'm starting to think 35 Whelen was my high-water mark. That's one of the reasons I bought "my last 30-06" a couple of years ago. I figured there was going to be plenty to explore south of that mark over the next 40 years. My idea now of a hero's end is being found stone cold dead with a 300 buck's antlers in both hands and a .223 Rem strapped across my back-- at 105. I'm working my way there slowly.

I had to give up bow hunting in 2007, because of a bad shoulder. It generally does not bother me, but I had a flare up after my last all-day 35 Whelen load development. It's not a major factor, but something I consider.

a merkel 28 sxs and a sako 6ppc.

Shaman,

A friend built his bolt action .223 on the small Sako action some years back. I shot some varmints with it, and it was indeed fun.

I like different too, and the .41 Mag guns qualify (rifle and handgun). I think for your coyotes a Glock 20 in 10mm would be the package for your packing solution.

Also one of the small Chay Zed rifles in 6.5 Grendel is on my list...

jim

Well if you are open to being convinced, a 500 gr cast bullet at 1300 fps will give you complete penetration on a ground squirrel.

I've found that a 250 gr Speer out of my .35 Whelen works well on ground squirrels.

I'm using a 200 grain cast in my 35 Whelen now. I've yet to take a deer with it, but it is the SHIZZ on chipmunks-- good penetration, and it makes a convincing crater.

Hint: put a pile of sunflower seeds underneath your 100 yard target stand.

Y'all have given me good advice, and I'm definately leaning towards a .223 tack driver project.

So what do you think?

RAR?
Ruger Hawkeye Varmint/Target?
Savage Axis?
Sumtin' else?

My main goal in this project would be starting with a rifle that I won't be able to blame for any inadequacies in accuracy out of the box or after minimal improvement. I'd like to concentrate on the loads and my own wretched shooting form.

I concur on the 16ga recommendation. Svelte like a 20 ga, kills like a 12.

I'm also "looking" for a SxS, but the prices are scary when it comes to a clean, quality firearm (while still aesthetically pleasing). I currently have a pump (Win 97) and autoloader (Rem M11) and an O/U (Citori) all in 16ga. One of the local funstores stocks Fiocchi ammo and I buy them by the case.

Kaiser Norton

For an out-of-the-box .223 tack-driver, look no further than a Savage 10-PC. My son has one in .308, I have the 10-FPC in .308, and my nephew has a 10-PC in .223. All were tack-drivers right out of the box with factory ammo.
Full length aluminum bedding chassis (AccuStock),AccuTrigger, fluted semi-bull barrel, threaded for suppressor or compensator, factory attached Picatinny rail, and two front swivel studs, plus perfectly balanced, it isn't your superlight walking varminter, but it isn't a bench monster, either.

LINK

LINK

LINK

LINK

Ed

Not easy to find in your local gun store, but worth every penny and more.

Fast twist .223's?



But I also think you need....

Good advice here. My 10-FCP-K in .308 is ridiculously accurate, so much so that my buddy bought the same thing. Both are 1/2 minute and under rifles. That said, handle several of your choices and see what feels good to you. They're all good rifles. Then let your wallet be your guide from there.

If your looking for a "tack-driver" I've heard the various .17's can shoot. Both rimfire and centerfire versions.
I've been toying with a .17Hornet or .17Fireball.
I've heard the 204 Ruger accurate also.
Just a thought of some I've been thinkin of.
Also, maybe think a T/C Encore fit your fancy? Then when your in such a dilemma, just buy another barrel.

Shaman, the 77/44 is a good knock about. 300 gr paper patch makes it a great one.

If you want to get totally distracted get yourself a good flintlock long rifle. More fun than a barrel of monkeys. They over penetrate munks pretty much. A .45 is a good place to start.

When I first read your post a couple days ago, I started racking my brain for a solution. In the meantime, it sounds like you're now leaning towards a smallbore tack driving rifle, but just in case you're still thinking..

I know you said you had all the .22's you needed for plinking, but do you have a good .22 handgun for a trail gun? You know, just in case a rogue pop can/ snake/ or other target of opportunity presents itself and needs perforating?

I've been thinning and adding to my arsenal for years, trying to keep the numbers minimized but sufficient, (and like Phil Gramm, I think I've got a few more than I need, but not as many as I want).. but recently rediscovered the joy of plinking with a .22 pistol.

I had a heavy Ruger Mark I bull barrel, and it was an accurate and sweet gun, but like my 4" 629, at nearly 3 lbs, it was too darned heavy to just pack around without a purpose.

After doing some thinking and research, I ended up buying a Ruger 22/45 Lite, doing a few small modifications, and buying a holster for it.. but one of the Browning Buckmarks would've worked just as well too.

After running a few of some of my favorite loads through it and confirming it's both reliable and accurate enough for the purpose I have in mind, I decided to take it on it's maiden voyage of said purpose. A hike up the hill, through the woods, find an impromptu target, then run a magazine through it without ear plugs.

Quickly decided that Velocitors, unmuffled out of a short barrel without ear protection, is borderline painful. Next, when I get the funds, I'd like to add a suppressor.

Oh, another thing, I'd never really seen the attraction to AR's, but a few years ago I thought it would be a good idea to get something that could function as a longer range self-defense gun/ plinker.. just in case.

I'd always wanted a .444 marlin or .45/70 lever gun, but in the end, went with something "more practical" for my side of the country.. a stainless Marlin 44 mag lever gun. Besides, I've owned more than a few .44's over the years, loved them, and already had a boatload of reloading components for it.

Gotta say, it really made my day, heck decade! to learn that Ohio had opened up the deer hunting regulations to allow "pistol caliber" rifles a couple of years ago. Also, it's been a real pleasure to develop loads, sight it in at the shooting bench, and to use my own handloads to kill deer these last couple of years. No more $3-a-shot, deer slugs with near elephant gun recoil for me... unless I happen to be in the mood.

That being said, I'd really like to have one of those Ruger 77/44's like Digital Dan was talking about. I just prefer the feel of a bolt action over a lever gun.

P.S. I finally decided to get myself an AR last fall too. Gotta say I wish I'd have done it years ago! It's a fun gun to shoot!

.223 all day.

Good, cheap, rifles along with good, cheap ammo and/or brass. Easy on powder and your old achy body. Odds are good one will be a tack driver out of the box with minimal fiddling. Deadly on milk jugs and similar game.

Buy one and go shoot.

BMHenry: I'm pretty well covered on .22 pistols. I have a Ruger Mk II 10". 'HillChick has a MK I. I have well-worn Single Six convertible for plinking. We have a long term project of resurfacing the area around the front porch in brass.

Medina County? I spent several weekends at your fairgrounds watching my son play bagpipe competitions, and I have family that hailed from Brecksville.

Seeing Ohio open up a little on its firearm restrictions was bittersweet for me. I had enough of the Sunday hunting ban, slug only hooey and moved my hunting over to Kentucky. I'm now invested in property and planning on retiring across the river. I can't help thinking about it. Perhaps one day. . .

I was close to buying an AR in December. I am not all that enamored of them, but I get worried at times. We have an ex Special Forces Vietnam vet in our extended circle of friends. His preference in those days was for Mini-14's. He found them more dependable. Of course we're talking a different generation of the M-16 for comparison, but if he was satisfied with the use of the Mini-14 for his line of work, I figured I'd stick with my collection of Mini's. I ended up buying some more 20 round magazines, and figuring I'd pocket the difference. As a strap-on-your-back plinker, my stainless mini-14 is perfectly acceptable. However, I normally carry my 357 Mag lever. The Mini-14 is a real brass flinger. I suspect my stainless of being able to fling them trans-dimensionally.

The 44 Mag idea is damn intriguing. I may yet go that route. If not on this venture, then soon.

I'm getting comfortable with the .223 REM bolt gun idea. So I'll repeat my question from last week: which one? So far I've got a couple votes for the RAR, and one vote for the Savage.


Thanks again everyone for helping out.

As far as the 44 mag goes, 1 thing to consider is the Ruger 77/44 is a 1/20" twist where the Marlin 1894 is a 1/38".

I surprised nobody has suggested a Tikka for the .223.

Fun, ain't it?

You failed to mention a price point, so it's hard to give a specific reccommendation. If money were no object for me, I'd go for that pretty Number 1 pictured above. SS, fast twist, and no magazine length issues. For cheap, RAR. The middle is full of stuff, but the SS Weatherby Vanguard S2 I bought last fall is pretty nice and has a great 2-stage trigger. Less than $650.

I dig the little Ruger RAR Predator 223.. Haven't really worked too much with it, just put some book loads of H4895 under 77 grain Sierra TMK's and Hornady 75 grain HPBT's.. I am sure there is more accuracy to be had but it suits me as it sits..

That's a good question. If I could get sub-MOA out of the rifle on a good day, I'd be happy. I'm a hunter that shoots more than the other way around. This would be my first real attempt to get better than hunting-level accuracy.

The RAR Predator looks like a good starting point. However, I'm open to any suggestions. The main thing I'm looking for is a rifle that I won't be able to blame. If there's a problem with the group, I'd like it to be either me or the load.

I can only speak to the RAR Predator I have and it is a great shooting rifle. I even have an idea to put it in a nicer stock since I know it is a good shooting rifle. The groups I put up are probably more my fault they aren't tighter than any problem with the rifle. Hard to find a 8 twist 223 with a 1 piece base for under 400.00 with a workable trigger.

I've only fired three groups with factory ammo in my Vanguard, but none of them (two 3-shot and one 5-shot) went over 7/8". That was with Fiocchi Extrema 40gr Vmax. I tried to work up a deer load with Nosler 64gr BSBs, only to discover that I had an early production S2 with a 1-14 twist. The bullets landed point-on, but the smallest groups were about
1 1/2" or so. No biggie, and my fault for lack of due diligence.

Newer ones are 1-9, good enough for up to 65gr or so.

The rifle has no issues with fit or function, apparently not the case for a lot of rifles these days.

Some (Boxer/Stick?) have said that some of the RARs have long 5.56 chambers, but short magazines that can give trouble accuracy-wise. Not sure about the details, but it's something to look into before you buy. Research is half the fun.

For as much as you probably paid for that Sharps, you'd think they coulda found you some nice wood without all those ugly streaks!😛

9.3x62
375 H&H
8x68 Shuler

For whitetail? Yikes.

Shaman - Another vote for the RAR Predator....got one last year, and it's easily a 1/2" rifle all day long. I've been working on reduced loads to mimic a 22 WMR, and while that's fun, I also worked up some fast 40gr. loads (3600FPS+).... and I never have a brass shortage either!

Can't get 8x68 Shuler here. Old guys line up at Walmart every Thursday morning and scarf it all up.

I put money down on Ruger American Predator in .223 Rem yesterday. It'll be in by the weekend. I had nearly overcome my urges, but getting that lung infection two weeks ago removed all my remaining willpower, and I found myself floating into the gunshop as if being moved by unseen forces. It didn't help any that I was out with my buddy, Bob, who seems to collect firearms faster than I acquire Chapsticks.

It also did not help any that I was down in the shamanic reloading cave yesterday morning, doing my end-of-winter tidying, and found some 75 grain Horndays that have been sitting on they shelf, mocking me for 15 years. Somebody at shooters.com had suggested they'd work great out of a Mini-14. So much for asking for advice on the Internet, huh? They did make perfect keyholes in the paper.

I just wanted to say thanks to y'all for helping me through this.

It seems to me that a 35 caliber selection - one a year. Start with a 357 mag, then a 35 Remington in a 141, and a Marlin 336, a 358 BLR next, a 35 Whelen (bolt this time) or 350 Rem Mag after that. Finally get a 358 Mag. This could also be a 375 Ruger necked down

For molds start with a 358 in a Keith Style - about 160 grain, then buy a new mold to go with each rifle.

Then after getting one of each, fill in the gaps with a second 357. This time get a single action or a double action depending on what you bought the first time. Then make sure you have bolt and pump actions in the rifle calibers. In the case of the biggest cartridges you'll need to substitute a single shot in place of the pump actions. Finally look at a SMLE bored out to a 35-303. A 35 Winchester would be nice. And did I mention a 357 lever action?

I'm way ahead of you Bugger. I started casting bullets a couple of years ago, and started off by focusing on 35 caliber. I had more than six firearms already that used .358 bullets and I could handle them with 2 molds:

35 Whelen Remington 7600
.357 Mag Marlin 1894 Lever
and a bunch of 357 Mag handguns.

You could not be more right!

I finally got a picture of the new Hawkeye Predator with the scope mounted. It's a 6-24X40MM Bushnell.