Which gunwriter(s) most influenced you on the way to becoming a gunwriter yourself?

Probably Jack O'Connor.

But like most "gun writers" (including O'Connor) I eventually wound up in the job after doing many other kinds of writing. Started out publishing poetry and fiction, but then in my early 20's started selling non-fiction to various magazines, including not just the usual suspects but SPORTS ILLUSTRATED, back when they ran hunting and fishing stuff, and also some general-interest articles, including one feature for NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC. But in those days I mostly wrote for FIELD & STREAM, GRAY'S SPORTING JOURNAL, SPORTS AFIELD and various flyfishing magazines, rather than shooting magazines.

Started selling a few gun articles in the late 1980's, and in the 1990's more and more. Eventually I was writing more gun stuff than anything else, partly because fishing articles didn't pay much, and partly because gun magazine editors started asking me to.

Most of the other gun writers I know also fell into it in some fashion after doing other stuff, but there are exceptions. Mike Venturino always wanted to be a gun writer ever since he was a teenager, and that's essentially all he's ever done, except for the usual "starter jobs" when he was really young.

Interesting. And I'm guessing Jack O'Connor is probably the inspiration of most of todays gunwriters. He is practically "The Beatles" of gunwriters. I read an article where Dave Petzal said O'Connor was his inspiration so that is what prompted me to ask. Much like The Beatles I think Jack was just the right personality, with the right message, at the right time. He changed the landscape.

I'd have to say Elmer Keith on the hunting side, although I found that standard-sized rounds killed exceedingly well. What I valued about Elmer was his wealth of hunting experience and down-to-earth common sense.

I know that Elmer was reporting honestly on his field experience and that bullets back in the 30's and 40s weren't what we have now. If Elmer was alive today (and I surely wish he was), he'd recognize the fact that we now live in the Golden Age of incredible bullets.

Then, there was load development and such. I'd have to say that Ken Waters and Warren Page influenced me most; with a bunch of PO Ackley thrown in. Ken, of course, had very little hunting experience, while Page had oodles. Anyway, for tech stuff, I followed the lead of Waters, Page and the Ackley stuff that wasn't full of obvious bullshit.

Still on the subject of tech, I knew Bob Hagel and liked him a lot. We talked often and I learned a good deal from him. He loaded waaaay too hot, so I never followed that part of his guidance.

I'll be honest and say that I never liked Jack O'Connor much. I knew him and that REALLY tainted my reading of his words. And that's all I will say about that.

I've had a couple of editors who adored O'Connor. Neither had much hunting experience, so I guess they liked the prose.

I also knew Elmer Keith since I was a gun-crazy kid of twelve years or so. He always had time for me and just plain knew stuff. Karen and I even stopped by his home (by invitation) when we were on our honeymoon, 52 years ago. Man did we all have a fine time!!!

To put Elmer in proportion; many of the older gunwriters have told me that whenever gun scribes gathered at a watering hole, the sound level of the visiting, jokes and laughing would approach 100 decibels. Then, Elmer would walk into the room, take the stogie out of his mouth and clear his throat ... and the sound dropped to 0db ... silence.

The other gun writers realized that whenever Keith spoke, they learned things and that it was based on great deal more experience than most of them had.

My writing? (Not that I ever attained any status at all) Hell, I was busy making money so that I could retire forever at age 49. That and hunting my ass off in some really wild places. My writing style always was totally my own and the stuff in my many articles was always purely my own.

Anyway, for what it's worth, those are the gunwriters who influenced me.

Blesssings,

Steve

PS. I've always loved Johnny's writing. He writes really, really well and all of his words are based on experience ... and no bullshit (don't tell him I said so ) And after I met the John and hunted with him several times, I liked his writing even more. Johnny writes like he talks, so whenever he writes a piece, it's like a personal conversation.

For some reason, at gunwriter functions, we always seemed to be assigned as roommates. And I would have to say, that was always a great pleasure.

Johnny is the real deal and a man who will always have my respect and friendship.

We are very lucky to have John Barsness here at the 24HCF. Like Elmer Keith, Johnny "knows stuff."

P O Ackley, with later valuable additions from Harold Vaughn. Oh, and Dr. Brownell.

They were hard-core experimentalists. When questions came up that they thought nobody could answer well, they would create an experiment. My education is in physics, and my current profession includes a lot of measurement system analysis and industrial experimentation, which leads me to the same approach for my hobby and for the articles I've written.

I'm not much of a hunter. The best I've found for learning to hunt is Clyde Ormond. He was from my home town, and as a teenager, I knew him slightly. His home was next to the home where my brother in law grew up.

Yes , I've always heard Elmer made for better company than Jack. I love reading Keith's works too but when he starts talking calibers , that's when he loses me. I don't think I ever read any PO Ackley. Townsend Whelen is probably the next writer I'd like to read.

Mike,

It is said that Ken Waters fashioned his writing after that of Colonel Townsend Whelen. So, it's probable that when you read Waters, you're viewing Whelen through the filter of Ken's mind. Both were fine writers.

Yeah, Keith gradually became behind the times as far as cartridges are concerned. But his choices were based on field experience gained from the not-so-good bullets of the 30s and 40s. He was simply reporting what worked for him ... but the world of gun stuff moved way beyond that point.

Steve

Thanks, Rooms! It's always been a pleasure for me too.

I've heard from many people that O'Connor often wasn't very much fun in person--unless he somehow took a liking to you, for whatever reason. I never met him (or Elmer) personally, but got a letter from each back in the late 1970's, after writing them first. I wrote O'Connor mostly about writing, and for some obscure reason he'd seen my very first published hunting article (my first published article, and only other one at that point, was on fishing) in GRAY'S SPORTING JOURNAL. He was very complimentary and gracious.

My letter to Elmer was about handloading the .333 OKH--or rather, the .338 OKH, because that's how it ended up after Winchester brought out their .338. He was very informative, but a really lousy typist (which I also heard from several editors after I got established in the business).

But I never came to appreciate Elmer's hunting writing until much later, because his gun writing was so big-bore, for so long, and my own experience was similar to O'Connor's. Even now I can't read some of Elmer's stuff, like his African book SAFARI, without almost screaming, "You should have just taken a .30-06 with 180 Partitions and not had all that trouble!"

But other than that I now love Elmer's hunting writing. I especially like that he always mentioned the meat, and also some of his descriptions of country I've also hunted. Of course, I live maybe a dozen miles from the Montana ranch where started hunting in the West, know exactly where it was, and have taken plenty of game in the area.
I also came to appreciate SOME of his gun writing, after trying a bunch of stuff he wrote about, and not just in rifles but handguns and shotguns.

But my overall influence in "gun writing" was indeed O'Connor, partly because like him I did a lot of other kinds of writing before arriving in this rather odd trade. Since then, of course, I've also been influenced by a bunch of others, especially Bob Brister in shotgunning, both because he was also an all-around writer (and a very good one) and great experimenter. Got to know him very well, and both shot clays and hunted with him quite a bit. With rifles, for purely technical stuff I'm a big fan of Bryan Litz and Harold Vaughan (who Denton mentioned) because they experiment enough to find out what's actually happening, and have the science background to do it right.

They all inspired me in one way or another. A few, who knew not what they were talking about, were my inspiration to start writing.

I considered Finn Aagaard a personal friend and liked the way he simply wrote what he knew to be true, or else stated where he got the information and why he thought it important. I appreciated his honesty and loyalty to his readers - over those of the advertisers, and editors. Which is what got him uninvited from a number of industry sponsered events and eventually fired from the NRA.

After all, a man has to look at himself in the mirror once in awhile.

I am often asked if I know, or knew, so and so and what they are like ? I base my opinion only partially on what they know or how well they write. Those unfortunately don't always correspond!
I judge a writer by whether or not I would choose to share a hunting camp with them, and by that measure there are only a handful of favorites.

Some industry people still listened to Finn even when he pissed them off. I was persona non grata with one major ammo company for a couple of years, after personally telling them their new big game bullet was a POS--but after Finn said so in print they got off their butts and designed a far better one.

I know the feeling, having said the emperor has no clothes one too many times.

John, as you know the industry folks are not fools ---- well not most of them anyway ---and popular writers who can walk the thin line and manage to stay in good graces with their editors can have an impact.

Keep up the good work

I never cared for O'Connor's prose; just a personal preference.

I am new to this forum and it is a very pleasant surprise to have conversations with people like John about the old time writers we were raised with.The anticipation of the latest Outdoor Life arriving in those days was so very high.I wonder to - what is it like for the modern writers when they meet these days? Any Jack, Elmer relationships ?What happened to Ross Siefreit (sp) ?

Man, I'd love to hear the details of this story 😊

Sorry for the late response, I've been on the road for a few days. I would say that Jack O'Connor was my idol as an outdoor writer, and influenced my shooting, selection of rifles and cartridges, and hunting in general greatly. However, as important as he was all other aspects of my outdoor experiences, I can't say that he actually influenced my writing all that much. I enjoyed reading Elmer's stuff and I actually spent about an hour with him enjoying his comments. However, as has already been mentioned, his experiences had been greatly influenced by the bullet selection that was available to him, and likewise influenced his recommendations. My experience, using the much better bullet choices available to me, was much more in line with O'Connor's writings than Keith's. One of my favorite writers of that era was John Jobson, and I suppose he influenced me somewhat. My mentor in the writing business was John T. Amber, and he had a huge influence on me in building my career. He introduced me to those in the industry that he felt I needed to know, and warned me to avoid those he felt were detrimental to a new writer's budding career. Knowing guys like John, Steve and Phil, along with many others in the business, all rubbed off on me. After more than four decades doing this, I think that I might finally be getting it right.

I keep hearing about Elmer's bullet choices. I just reread 'The Big Game Rifle' by Jack O'Connor and he praises those bullet choices. He speaks very highly of the 150 .30-06 and 130 .270 Rem. Bronze Points and the 130 .270 Win Silvertip. He even shoots a Grizzly with .30-06 180 grain pointed Corr-Lokts hitting it four times and not recovering a bullet. He also kills a Grizzly cleanly with a 130 .270 cup and core. He goes on to say Rem. Bronze Points have never failed him. Maybe those bullet choices were a lot better than we give them credit for and maybe Elmer was stuck in the 1890's?

In Jack's day the .308" 180 PSPCL was a stouter bullet than it has been for a while now.

Silvertips also changed.

I certainly agree. Cup and Cores were better then. They've been cheapened up. But all that means is there were darn good factory bullets then.

None were as good as the Nosler Partition.

And that's the absolute truth.

Steve

"Of course, I live maybe a dozen miles from the Montana ranch where started hunting in the West, know exactly where it was, and have taken plenty of game in the area."

Mule Deer:

I know you live not far from Elmer's old ranch in Winston, but have you ever hunted much around Ovando? I'm re-reading "Hell, I Was There" for about the 100th time and got curious about Ovando, and Wolf Creek and such places where a young Elmer packed for government survey crews and hunted elk.

Have fished far more around Ovando than hunted, including a couple of streams Elmer fished, but back in the mid-80's a couple friends and I did a drop-camp deal in the mountains north of Ovando during the early "backcountry" season, starting on September 15th. A local outfitter packed us in about 15 miles, and we spent a week in a couple of his wall tents.

We didn't kill any big game--turned out there wasn't much in that country at that time of year, and it got worse a few days into the trip when the nice weather changed drastically, and we ended up hunting in snow almost up to our knees. Luckily we had all brought the right clothing, but no elk or deer were stupid enough to be up there! Did get some nice photos that looked like we were hunting in the general season of November, and in fact one is on the cover of my book BORN TO HUNT.

the camp was right on the border of the early backcountry season and the "regular" Montana bow season, so I also brought along a bow and killed a few blue grouse with it the first day of the hunt, which was fun and improved our diet. We also caught some trout in a nearby lake, and during one of my longer hikes out of camp, desperately looking for elk, was on a trail with fresh grizzly tracks, and wolverine tracks on top of them! One of my buddies and I also got caught in a thunderstorm during the blizzard, while crossing the ridge into camp. So it was an interesting trip, to say the least.

No Peter Crapstick?

For me it was Ross Seyfried.

Oh, come on ?
It's 'Chapstick. !

Since I'm not a G W I haven't answered the OP.
Per cdb - Capstick was/is entertaining and IMO not so instructional.

However--I think he's right about NOT spearing a C Buffalo.

Jerry

Not a gun writer but one from the "industry", one of the writers mentioned was quite iritating to be around and to hunt with. I've not read much of his writing due to his nasty reputation.
Chapstick's "Death in the tall grass" put African hunting in my "bucket".

This was a great read.. I really enjoy hearing all these opinions.. While I am not a writer, I liked O'Connor as a kid, but as I got older Elmer and Bob Hagel were my favorites. Met Elmer a couple times, and Bob once.. Elmer was easy to visit with.. While Bob was very friendly but not much on conversation..

moosemike, I think the great difference in Jack's success with the older bullets and Elmer's was the game they were after.. Jack seemed to hunt often with guides, and in more open country.. Bullet placement was easier.. Read some of Elmer's stuff and he was concerned a great deal with elk in heavy timber..While Elmer took many fine trophies, he was a meat hunter.. He depended on that especially in the early years to balance the budget!! He wanted success at any angle..

I have one of Elmer's books from the 50's or 60's.. In it he favored big bores, but he was not so dogmatic about it as in his later work.. I think his feud with Jack had more to do with hating the .270 than the caliber itself..
I liked Elmer's life style, although I would not have wanted to endure the hardship he did.. Not only that, but he was a deadly shot with rifle, sixgun, and shotgun.. Something very few of us every achieve..

As far has his typing, he never corrected, he only typed.. I think he replied often to 150 letters per months.. I have some of his letters. I must put these with his books.. I also have a book with letters Elmer wrote over the span of his life.. There is one handwritten one and the spelling is almost perfect, if it isn't perfect.. I think his skill with the typewriter was much of the problem..

This as mentioned was a great read and very informative..Thanks..

Cherish them! What a treasure!