Am I uninformed or behind the times? Does Sierra have them?

I was reading on some other forum that Sierra prefers to focus on accuracy and that manufacturing premium bonded bullets is not conducive to super accuracy.

I have not got a clue...

Whats the truth?

Not a gun writer but thye sell everything they produce and the premium bullet market is saturated.

You want the truth?

See rule #1

"Questions From You
When is Sierra going to make a premium bullet?
All Sierra bullets are premium bullets or they wouldn't shoot as well as they do. But the answer to your question is no, we don't intend to offer an enhanced construction bullet. The key to proper bullet performance for conventionally constructed bullets is to select the proper bullet in the first place. It makes absolutely no sense to use a rifle capable of clean kills at 600 yards to harvest animals at 75 to 150 yards. Furthermore to expect a bullet to perform well at 100 yards and the accompanying high impact velocity then ask that same bullet to exactly duplicate that performance at 600 yards and the drastically reduced impact velocities is asking way too much. There is a point there where the shooter has to stop and think about what he is trying to accomplish. And as is so often the case, it is far too easy to over-specialize and become woefully ineffective in one or the other phase of performance criteria." Rich

http://www.sierrabullets.com/resources/x-ring-newsletter/index.cfm/xid/28/That-First-Gun/

To paraphrase rule 1. It states that a player shall play the ball from the teeing grounds to the hole through a stroke or series of strokes with a club.
I don't get the connection to premium bullets.

B -

according to some, ' any ole bullet ' in the vitals will kill. No need for premium.

Jerry

Why offer the bullets that will be shot at African/exotic big game when you can own the market of bullets used to work up all those loads? Lots more volume because it takes a bunch of shooting to get accurate loads narrowed down. (And you can use Sierras to hunt most American game,)

This is a good point. Sierra bullets are also priced very well, which helps, no doubt.

If you check the descriptions of the various bullets on the Sierra website, you'll find recommendations as to the suitability of each bullet for specific puposes. Many of the Pro Hunter slugs feature heavy and/or tapered jackets that help them hold together, but limit their usefulness as game bullets in small-capacity cartridges. I've used the 165gr .308 HP on several deer with excellent results and plan to try the 100gr 6mm PH on deer next season. I sectioned one of 6mms and found, as claimed, a jacket that gets quite thick towards the base. Reviews on this bullet, posted on the Midway site, indicate that it penetrates very well.

I've killed a few deer with NPs and like them very much (especially when I find them as cheap blems and overruns), but ordinary bullets work just fine too as long as you don't ask them to do stuff they're not designed for.

A PH friend of mine owns a big sportings goods store in Kimberley, South Africa. They sell a bunch of different kinds of factory ammo, but also a lot of handloading components, though American-made bullets cost about twice as much as they do here, regardless of brand. (Or at least that was true the last time I was in the store.)

A few of the bullets are "premiums" made over there, but the two most popular brands are Nosler Partitions and Sierra GameKings/ProHunters. The Sierras are most popular in heavier weights for the caliber, and often used by meat hunters who shoot game for sale at local markets, because they allow more profit. I got to know several of those guys while there for a month one year, and they have no problems taking the bigger, tougher plains game species with Sierras--though of course they're very good shots and don't take the tougher-angle shots American hunters over for a week or two often choose to.

" but ordinary bullets work just fine too as long as you don't ask them to do stuff they're not designed for."


That, in a nutshell, says it all.

And I am a huge Barnes fan, having used Barnes exclusively for big game, and in my 22 Hornet on coyotes, since 1992.

Do they have to pay $1600 trophy fees if one gets away...

I find that to be a remarkably short sided business approach. I do find Sierra Matchkings fly well. However, I also found that 215 Gamekings don't open (at all) at reasonable speeds and Sierras engineering was rather lacking in that example.

No, they wouldn't, because normally half of a trophy fee goes to the landowner, and half to the safari company. And even then animals considered real trophies aren't taken on meat culls.

But some of the animals are indeed mature males (or in the instance of gemsbok, females) who don't qualify as trophies because of a missing or deformed horn. And the landowner might charge some sort of fee for animals wounded and lost, because the meat is part of his profit too. And a wounded and lost 500+ pound animal represents a big chunk of change to a local biltong hunter or professional culler.

So no, they're not using Sierras because they hope they'll work.

In the interests of helping this thread wander a bit...

I've found at times that the concept of using premiums (Partitions for example) to compensate for less than ideal shot angles can be a wobbly one.

Quite often taking a shot at a big pig, with a 3/4 quartering away shot or similar with a NPT or Accubond, I've regretted it. Usually I've thought later I'd have been just as well off with a NBT or Interlock, and far better off waiting for a side or front-on shot.


(Not a GW; just a hick from the sticks.)

I'm a hick from the states..... bobnob not directed at you. Just using the opportunity to rant...

There has to be at least a psychological difference between an African or Australian cull hunt where game is so abundant that it needs to be "culled" in the first place...and a hunt where a selective hunter is restricted by law or conscious or pocket book to take a single representative specimen he may have hunted a while for, and also waited several years for the opportunity...possibly in a lifetime he may get to do it once.

This is hard for some folks from Cull Country to grasp when it comes to shot selection. Personally I never considered premium bullets to be instruments utilized in case something went "wrong",since bad shot are simply that....bad shots regardless of bullets .

And I never understood the attitude some have that reliable expansion and some extra penetration ( the REAL advantages of premium bullets regardless how it's accomplished) is some how a "bad" thing and anyone using them is a reckless nut. This is twisted logic.

So, I never regarded a mildly angling shot (coming or going) as the least bit risky with a bullet suited to the task.

I guess some Sierra's are capable of this, while some are not and therein lies the difficulty in choosing...which is why after using some and watching others perform, I shoot the hell out of them on paper and varmints but leave them home on BG hunts.That they do not make a premium is of no concern to me. I like them anyway for certain things.

I will leave the experiments and frugality to the cull hunters. We aren't playing the same game...at all.

Bob, in the last few/many years I've become what I consider much less of a culler and more of a "hunter". The joy of shooting 40 pigs under a spotlight over a crop in a couple of hours wore off many many years ago.

And with life getting busier, my opportunities are becoming a little more limited of late...

I've no doubt there's a different mentality Bob, as I feel I've trodden both paths. The pursuit and dispatching of a desirable animal with a single, well placed shot is a lot more satisfying.

But I explain this to some of my mates and they look at me like I have two heads...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...s/4237948/Re_sierra_gameking_vs_prohunte

So the Pro Hunters with a lesser B/C are a tad tougher than the Game-Kings and prone to a tad better accuracy out to 300 yards etc.????

I don't.

Sierra's reputation was built upon accurate bullets. Bonded bullets are inherently less accurate than a traditional cup and core design.

Sierra is just choosing to play to their strengths as opposed to trying to be all things to all people.

Sierra doesn't produce anything that can touch the Partition in it's niche, and Nosler still can't touch the SMK.

P,

What cartridge, impact velocity and game etc have you been shooting when using the 215 SGKs that weren't opening?

I'm assuming you're talking about the .338 cal version?

Could be the 215 was designed for 338 Win Mag speeds since that's clearly a far more popular 338 than the Federal. I don't see that as a failure of Sierra engineering. Increased speed and rpm's still count with some designs.

As a moose hunter, I shoot my .375 about 25 times a year with NP,s As a competitive XC shooter, I shoot 3-4 thousand Sierra's a season. If you were a Bean counter for a bullet company; what would you have your production lines making?
Follow the money.

There you go! They deliver Sierra Match bullets to my club on pallets.

Why I laugh at these threads about Sierra missing the market.....pretty funny.

I emailed Sierra and that is exactly what they said, that it was a stout bullet designed for the 338 Win Mag. But I was shooting out of a 338-06, 2600-2700 impact velocity, so that's not that far down range with the WM. And I tried more than one.

I do like other Sierras, and if they made a .338 Gameking or Pro Hunter in the 180-200 range I'd definitely give it a good tryout.

Edit: My comment about their business plan was meant to get at the idea that it seemingly lacks innovation. That they choose not to innovate. Maybe they won't make a bonded bullet, but they ought to look for ways to build a better mouse trap. Looking at the target bullets, I can't imagine they are growing their share of the market with Lapua, Berger, and now Hornady ELD-Ms on the market. I used to use the 175 SMK as the baseline for my 308 loading, and will still use Federal GMM to test, but I now have more confidence in starting with a 155 Scenar for handloads. At the end of the day they make good bullets, just lack any wow factor, or filling a niche, right now giving me a reason to try them over others.

I don't really think their business plan is bad at all. 95% of the bullets sold are to target shooters, varmint hunters and deer hunters where c&c bullets have performed well for decades. So I think they are pretty smart to simply let Hornady systematically discontinue their excellent line of C&C interloocks and replace them with so called premium bullets at premium prices and wait for the interlock market share to migrate to gamekings.

There are a lot of valid points made above, but I look at things a little differently. With all the hoopla about lead now days, and states starting to outlaw it. I believe Sierra would be far better off if they started offering some pure copper bullets or premiums. They would be caught with their pants down if lead was totally band by the EPA or other government action.

I like so many others shoot Sierra for most hunting situations and would sure hate to loose that availability.

The government might buy a couple Sierra bullets..

prm: Lots of matches are won every year with Sierra bullets. The wow factor has a funny habit of not lasting as long a lot of times.

Think about it....we see posts here every day about guys fiddling with this or that bullet,fiddling with seating depths, etc etc. trying to get bullets to shoot.

You rarely if ever see that stuff or hear many complaints about Sierras. If I want to know if a rifle shoots well, they are among the very first thing loaded.

If a rifle will not shoot Sierras,there is something wrong with the rifle.

Thats especially true if you are not using Barnes bullets!

I"ve seen so much variation in Sierra expansion its not even funny. I almost won't use them on game at all anymore.

OR the scope

OR the triggerer


Jerry

Back in the 70's and 80's when I campaigned the High Power Silhouette circuits. The comment most commonly repeated was, If it wont shoot Sierras it wont shoot anything else either.

The use of Sierras for hunting is full of contradictions.

I have killed a huge pile of big game over the past 40+ years with Sierras, mostly GameKings, including many African animalks, and have yet to encounter a major problem. In fact, 130 GK's are what I started hunting with in my first .270 Winchester many years ago. According to many that's a combination doomed to failure, because they'll come apart.

I have seen quite a few bullets separate jacket and core over the decades, but in all but two instances it apparently occurred only AFTER the bullet penetrated the animal, because the jacket and core were found lying together under the hide on the far side. And those bullets included a bunch that WEREN'T Sierras, including just about every cup and core made in America, including one or two Hornady Interlocks.

The only two bullets I've seen leave the jacket somewhere behind the core were a 130-grain .270 GameKing and a 105-grain Speer Hot-Core. Both were shot into eating-size buck deer, and in both instances the jacket stopped right under the hide on the ribs, while the core kept on going and killed the deer.

In the past decade the Sierra I've used most is the 7mm 160-grain GameKing from the 7x57, handloaded to around 2650-2700 fps. Have used it not only on deer-sized game in North America (and never recovered one), but on a bunch of Africa plains game of about the same size. The only one recovered over there was a finisher from a warthog that was lying unconscious and obviously expiring, but still breathing. The finisher was put into the chest from about three feet, and jacket and core were found lying together under the hide on the far side.

A long-time outfitter I know in eastern Montana personally prefers the same bullet in his 7mm Remington Magnum, not only for his own pronghorn and deer hunting but for finishing off deer his clients have shot with premium bullets. Some of those aren't shot too well, but some are shot OK and go a long ways because, he says, too many of his clients use premium bullets that don't do enough interior damage. He's a handloader who's very well acquainted with big game bullets and cartridges, and I always find his comments based on plenty of observation and experience. Craig Boddington is also fond of the same combination.

Another point is that Sierra hunting bullets, like all hunting bullets, differ enough in construction in various weights and calibers that it's not always relevant to make generalizations about performance from 6mm's to far larger calibers. But that's exactly what many (if not most) hunters tend to do, if they've gotten beyond the stage of believing the cartridge is the main factor in "killing power."

Speaking of "cup & core together"



65gr Gameking, launched from a AR-15 with 1 in 7 barrel. Broadside shot, broke onside humerus, stopped in offside hide. Spike buck went 30 yards & dropped.

I would not shoot a bigger animal with it, but it worked.

Savage 99, don't look at this photo...

Completely agree. I too think the .308 175 SMK is a go-to bullet and what Sierra makes, they typically make well (except for the 215 GK!). But in the same rifles, I have to fiddle with them no differently that with other bullets. However, for a business to say things such as "no, we don't intend to offer an enhanced construction bullet" or "It makes absolutely no sense to use a rifle capable of clean kills at 600 yards to harvest animals at 75 to 150 yards" or "to expect a bullet to perform well at 100 yards and the accompanying high impact velocity then ask that same bullet to exactly duplicate that performance at 600 yards and the drastically reduced impact velocities is asking way too much" strikes me as a very odd. So I take it they are not even trying to create new solutions to hunting near and far, they are not going to ever offer a mono solution to lead restrictions, they are not going to offer confidence inspiring solutions to hunting tougher game or using faster cartridges at shorter ranges (sometimes elk show up closer than you planned)? I'd rather a company work to find better alternatives. Sure Sierra can sell bullets, lots of them, to the govt, and there will be a market for target shooting with their SMKs. But my guess is others are eating into the target shooting market. For example, I recently picked up a 6.5 Creedmoor and when I got to researching bullets, hunting and target, Sierra didn't have what I felt was a better solution for either, and I seriously considered them. They make good target bullets no doubt (142 SMK), but there are now others. Turns out Hornady ELD-Ms shoot incredibly well. All I'm saying is that good companies are always trying to build a better mousetrap, something you never considered before, and their statement says they are not interested in evolving. Someday a company will develop new construction techniques or use new materials that improve consistency, lower costs, or improve performance on game near and far, to create bullets that fly like ELDs, penetrate like TTSXs and kill like Partitions or Bergers, and better. Sierra's statement tells me it won't be them. It's just that statement of theirs I have an issue with. Hopefully I'm making too much of it, taking out of context, or whatever.

M D -

Thnx for your accountS of Sierra bullets from UR experience and observations of others who used them. I readily accept your comments and acceptance of them at least for Deer.

WAY back in the 70s as I was developing handloads for hunting, I literally tested diff makes of bullets in MANY media, from red clay banks, uprooted tree stumps, sifted top soil, mud, wet/dry news papers, catalogs, even SAND.
Don't use sand--- it's like running bullets against a grinder (lol).

I tested 6mm, 270, & 30 cal, consequently, I never loaded/hunted/shot Sierras because I never found 1 (one) that didn't separate.

I would not trust any bullet that consistently separated for hunting game.

I've come to realize that NO medium is the same as animals.

Thnx again

Jerry

Based on some experience, I sincerely doubt Sierra is ignoring the "non-toxic" trend--but monolithic bullets are not the only answer there. They also started making plastic-tipped target bullets.

In my experience their assessment of the "long-range hunting" trend is spot on. There are two kinds of long range hunters: More ordinary hunters who want to extend their sure range to 500-600 yards, while not giving up close-in performance, and "real" long-range hunters who wouldn't dream of shooting at any animal under 500-600 yards away. The first type is already served by a bunch of different bullets, whether Barnes LRX's, Nosler AccuBonds (long range or otherwise), Swift Scirocco II's, or whatever. The second isn't worried about up-close performance.

The other fact is that "shooting" (meaning targets and other kinds of competition, general range-plinking, and varmints) is increasing far faster than big game hunting these days, despite the zillions of whitetails and feral pigs being killed each year--which do NOT require premium bullets.

Plus, aside from their huge government and target market, Sierra sells a lot of bullets overseas, and even these days relatively few foreign countries require non-toxic big game bullets. Those that do aren't huge markets.

It's a mistake to assume that Sierra ignoring the "premium" big game market is eating into their growth or profits. And again, why would they use a bunch of time, energy and money entering a market that's already flooded by not only major companies but many smaller companies?

My father killed a passel of deer, one shot each, with 150 grain Sierra boat tails on top of 52.3 grains of 4064 out of a 30-06. I know because I loaded the ammo.

He was a small bore competitor and won a number of medals before I was born, so Pop knew how to squeeze a trigger.

Correct, I have never failed to kill an animal cleanly, when I have done my part, using the given bullet, within it's design parameters, and destroying vitals. Reaching the brain, spinal cord via neck, or lungs, typically does not take a Premium bullet, on most game, using most common cartridges.

Agree with others, the bulk of handloaded bullets shot are not at large game, as so many rounds are used in practice, and zeroing a rifle.

Now if a given bullet cannot take out a given vital on a given shot choice, presentation, etc. I hold fire.

A premium can expand the options of what shot presentations a knowledgeable shooter will take.

I have taken deer using a 70gr TNT at 3300-3500 mv, on deer with neck shots at 45 yds, lung shots at 200, and 105 Amax on spine shots at 200 yds, and lung shots at 400yds when started at 2850.

Would I try busting shoulders with either? No. Those bullets are not designed for that job, yet I was 100 PERCENT successful b/c I knew the limits and parameters of my bullet in chamber, and aimed/fired accordingly.

That said, cheaper cup/core bullets are more economical for practice and on varmints, while a box of premiums can be sparingly selectively used for game only, after confirming zero.

I have a buddy who borrowed a 350 RM with 225 Sierra's one evening, busted both shoulders on a large 10pt WT Buck, dumped the deer, found the bullet on the offside under the hide. Perfect mushroom. Next evening dumped a doe, also "Right ther in tracks" with a nice silver dollar exit on the offside lung. So with that performance, some might call it a premium He planned to use some 225 NPTs I loaded for a guided Elk Hunt, due to TSA regs, ammo was not in proper box, so he had no ammo for that rifle on the trip. He did as I suggested, grabbed some NON-PREMIUM Low BC Low SD 200gr Corelokt factory ammo, placed his shot, and brought home one Heck of a Trophy sized Elk.

SO back to Rule #1.....It's SELDOM going to let you down, as if you Reach and destroy vitals via shot placement and PRESENTATION given design parameter consideration, then YES, you will be successful.

Again, we must clarify, there are many vitals offered. The Brain and Spine may not require as much penetration to be taken out. We must not think shoulders/heart only....

Premiums are great to use on many hunts and scenario's, but just b/c of the intro of better bullets, it does not render older style cup/core bullets "ineffective" - as being "Shot Selective" - and TRUE with one's aim, is well, back to the basics. RULE #1

prm: You will almost NEVER see a Hornady bullet at a registered shoot in my part of the country.

Funny you say that, I'll be taking Horn bullets with me to a registered match this weekend

I've also realized LONG ago that most people are very provincial.

When I say hunting, lots of guys have an image in their head of sitting in a blind/tree stand and waiting for that GOLDEN shot presentation.


In which case being a gold medal winning, match shooter and shooting Olympic bullets will likely make you smile.

What type of match?

If it's anything 600 yards and closer where a 308 is applicable I'd think the current AMP jacket 168 Hornady BTHP ought to be a contender. I've shot a big load of them along with similar weight Sierras and Noslers and they've all been quite good.

Almost all the deer I've killed were killed with Sierra bullets. I've got no complaints with them. I've had better performance out of them than some Hornadys, frankly.

I'd rather not EVER use the 140gr. BTSPs out of a .270 again, and probably won't. I've had them go all to pieces, or not expand, out of the same box of bullets. A plant tour of Hornady's place got me some falsehoods told, too.

Some of the first batches had the cannelure WAY far back on the bullet, later boxes had the cannelure moved forward to keep the bullets keep them together better. The techs at Hornady told me they'd never changed the bullets, period, but the bullets I had had different shapes and the ogives were considerably different.
That sorta soured me on Hornady. I've had NO such issues with Sierras.

A while back the ogives changed on the Hornady 150 grain 308 and 139 grain 7mm flat bases and neither one shoots the same for me. For deer hunting at my range limitations it doesn't really matter much, but it still bugs me.

Rule #1: When you find something you LIKE, buy an truckload of it, because they probably won't be making it next week.

Nor will they tell you if they changed it if they do happen to still be making it.

Back in the 70's and 80's I too traveled the high power silhouette circuit, California, Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico. If 100 shooters showed up, 98 of them would be using Sierra's. One of my first deer rifles was a M721 30.06 In those days I'd fill a Winchester case up with IMR4350 and seat a 150gr Sierra in it. I still have not seen much improvement over that bullet's performance. It just kills the snot outa deer and such. I think some of us way over think what's needed to kill deer sized animals. We do not need bullets that will shoot through concrete walls while retaining 99 percent of their weight. However, I do see a place for using a premium bullets on elk sized animal and that's what I do these days. As much as I respect Sierra and Hornady bullets, I'm now only hunting BG with Nosler Partitions largely in and effort to simply my life.

Don't matter, see Rule #1

Math man: I don't know...registered NRA matches, High power,over the course. Whatever they call them. Perry, Wimbledon, Quantico. I don't participate as I have never had the time for it.

These shooters are some of the best in the northeast and nationwide, and some have competed against guys like Tubbs and Litz. Some are (what do they call them?) Wimbledon Grand Masters? Including at least one woman last year.

Some are my friends for years. They shoot Sierra's. You ask them "Why no Hornady for score?" they all say the same thing...

Quote: "There's at least one problem in every box". When you shoot for score in competition,I guess you can't tolerate that.

TTSXs like Porsche, there are no substitutes....

Exactamundo!

With those things you shoot at a zillion fps I suspect not much else would hold together!

2 comments

I have shot a LOT of hornady at matches. And a lot of Sierra. Not to mention a lot of others, like berger and JLKs

The only hornady I ever shot that held a tight race to sierras was the 75 amax. And even then they had a couple of bad lots of them where I had to trade in 5-10,000 bullets a few times for new runs.

Sierra, I have seen a sierra fail to kill a deer. Shot through both lungs. 165 game king, out of 30-06.

Piece of lung on the ground. Deer was killed running a doe 3 weeks later with scars in both lungs.

I think that may have been a bit more of the deers desire to live, but a 30 cal hole in a rib going on and same going out, would indicate very little expansion.

While my 7mm experiences with the 160 game king in a 7x300 wtyb have never failed to kill, at the same distances, around 80 to about 175ish yards, I've seen about every example of expansion imagineable from that bullet. Quit using it after 2 years of hunting with it. You could head shoot a doe and about take the head off one time, then next have a 7mm entry hole in the head and about a dime or so exit...

Even had a small pig, about 50 pounds trotting off around 150-175 yards take one to the back of the neck, trying for the head, and the bullet blew up on the spine trying to get into the skull which it never did.

Its a reason I"m so much an all around Barnes shooter generally speaking.

The most consistently performing cup and cores that I"ve shot have been partitions and bergers.

I think Hornady's recent implementation of AMP jackets in its match bullets within the last few years has helped with consistency.

My one experience shooting game with Sierras was interesting. I normally used Speer hot cores in my .260, but in the fall of 2000 I bought a box of Sierra 120 grain flat base hunting bullets, think they were pro hunters. We had a lot of snow that fall, and getting around was tough. I shot a mule deer doe at about 80 yards across a coulee. I saw the dust fly from behind the doe's shoulder, and she took off running down a cow trail. Crossed the coulee, found blood, but not a lot. Easy to see with the snow though. Followed her about 1/3 of a mile, thank goodness she stayed on the trail and didn't head down into the steep draw the cow trail paralleled. When my friend and I dressed her, there was a 26 caliber hole in, between two ribs, and a 26 caliber hole out, again between two ribs. I don't think the bullet expanded at all. Not a lot of lung damage either, though some. I was loading those to a little over 2800 fps, and as close as I was, impact velocity should still have been good. I know this was a sample of one, and missing a rib both entrance and exit is probably not common, but I switched back to Speers after that and shot up the rest of the Sierras at targets.

The thing I like about Sierras is that if you work up a good load with a particular bullet, there is a good chance they will still be offering that bullet the next time you need to buy some. Not so, many of their competitors, to wit:

Nosler: solid base, many iterations of ballistic tips,
Speer: hot cores, Mag Tips, deep shocks, deep curls, now hot cores again, redesign of the Grand Slams...
Hornady: dropping many interlocks, AMax?
Barnes: how many iterations have we seen of the x bullet?

The latest and greatest can be good, but it is a two edged sword.

Sierra bullets generally have been accurate for me and usually kill quickly, but often make mess especially with combos like the 180 gameking out of a .300 Win mag and an average mule deer. Shoulder or behind the shoulder, my experience is that high velocity and sierra's equals an exploding bullet. I don't use them anymore. I've seen plenty of shards of copper and lead throughout the body cavity, and the heart is often mush. If you're good with that, then rock on with Sierra's.

I think a lot of the "good" or "bad" experiences concerning these bullets are determined by what one deems as "acceptable" meat damage.

That, and they got rid of those freaking melting tipped bullets. How can anyone shoot those with any accuracy whatsoever?

I should add: out of modest velocity rounds like the 30-30 or 30-40 Krag, normal Sierra bullets often do just fine on game, with much less damage.

Speed can be your best friend or worst enemy with Sierra's, depending on what your shot preference is.

Shot a lot of feral pigs with the Sierra 300g HP from my 45-70. Quite soft but devastating and very very accurate.

Shoulder shot a 140kg boar at 80y. Dropped and pumped. No exit.

Same pig as in my avatar.

I would use them again.

maybe with some, but with .224 75s thats been a big funny... at least out of 223.

Sure, at those pumpkin roller velocities, even Sierras get the job done. Overall I like Barnes' the best, but I use and like Partitions, Hornady Interlocks, A Frames etc. Sierras not so much

Ain't that the truth

No it's exactly the opposite in my experience. I spoke to a tech a Sierra and they told me the 215 was designed with a thinner jacket for 338-06 velocities. They work well for me and have never recovered one. Elk and all were DRT. Also a very accurate bullet.

Also don't agree on match shooters. Sierra is rapidly losing the match shooter market. Hornady, Berger, and Nosler are rapidly taking a good portion of their market. They still make good bullets though.

This has been an interesting thread.

We've heard from several people who've used Sierra hunting bullets in magnums at over 3000 fps and either didn't like the different ways they expanded or how much meat they shot up. This isn't odd, because Elmer Keith was saying the same things about cup-and-cores in high-velocity magnums from about 1930 on. Of course, I had to confirm it for myself, but had pretty done so by my mid-20's, whereupon I started using either heavier cup-and-cores, enough so muzzle velocity wasn't much above 2800 fps, or premiums--though I also discovered that at least a couple of the so-called premiums of the day didn't work exactly as advertised. Apparently, however, every generation has to rediscover the same things.

However, the 7x57 160 GameKing load I've used with such consistent results both in North America and Africa is one stolen from Elmer Keith. He loaded thousands of them for Don Hopkins (the "H" in OKH) for the many lengthy safaris Hopkins and his wife made. They used the load for smaller plains game, what might be called "deer-sized" but ran in size from Thomson's gazelles about the size of a large Eastern coyote to animals more on the order of caribou--and probably some larger. They shot the animals for trophies, camp meat, and baits for cats, and kept requesting more 160 Sierra loads, because they worked, killing quickly and reliably yet not shooting up much meat. It was a load Keith himself recommended, which is exactly why I tried it--and so far have gotten got exactly the same sort of results, several decades later, on a similar range of animals.

Good. Nice. Glad that's what you see.

In my neck of the woods Sierras aren't rapidly losing to anything among the shooters I know.


I was merely speculating on the 215 Sierra. Both the 338/06 and that bullet are way off my radar. I have no skin in Sierras for hunting and no much use for a 338 of any type.

Why they would design a bullet for an unpopular cartridge is beyond me but I guess they did it.

I used to shoot a lot of Sierras, but now shoot mostly Hornady and Nosler bullets.

I use Sierras and Noslers with a small sample of Swifts.

Drew a Pronghorn Buck in area 3 Colorado with 13 PP. I will use the same rifle and load I have used since the early 80's.

257 Weatherby 117 grain Sierra Pro Hunter in front of 70 grains IMR 7828 and a 215 mag primer. Fast, accurate, and deadly.

This is my go to rifle/load for all Pronghorn and Deer. It has never failed me.

As and my hunting camp mates are happy to point out; the 45-70 is indeed a pumpkin roller...

One of them even asked if I chronoed my loads with a stop watch!

I am a slow learner, and don't read many gun articles. Everything I know about bullets I learned here.

Unpopular? I know of a LOT of folks that run a 338-06. Not quite so many the AI but a lot that run the 338-06. Says something when you consider its not walmart stock rounds....

Now are there enough to design a bullet around it? Don't know that, but the 338 fed probably works good with it too....

The 215 Sierra Gameking was designed for 338 Win Mag velocities, not so much the 338-06.

PG,
That is my understanding as well. It is a messy deer bullet out of a 338WM and is "dramatic" on pigs as well. It shoots accurately, what's not to like. I think I can buy 100 of them for the price of the 50 accubonds which means I shoot the rifle more often...another upside.

I shoot Sierra, Hornady and Nosler and have no issues with any of them...but most of my shots are inside 200 yards as well.

LowBC

This thread reminded me that I have never fired a Sierra bullet in my 37 years of handloading. Not exactly sure why.

The only bullet failures that I've ever had were Sierra BTHP Gamekings, 85 grain .243" and 90 grain .257". Only four failures, 2 of each bullet, so a very small sample size, but enough to prompt me to stop using them for medium game.

I used to shoot a lot of 75 grain .257" HPs at pdogs and coyotes with great success, but, for no particular reason, I switched to the 75 grain VMax.

Jeff I'm thinking 30/06 or 308 popular.

I sure don't see 338/06's every day and wouldn't bet I could buy factory ammo anywhere within driving distance.

Never seen one in a hunting camp anywhere. I must lead a sheltered life...

I do know where there's a re bored M70 though. belongs to a friend. He never uses it.

About the only time the thought of "bullet failure" has risen to my mind has been when animals were not recovered. Then again there's no way of knowing in those cases whether it was just poor shot placement or......... a MISS. In fact sometimes I've known too damned well it was a miss.

Anyone else on here who misses?

If it won't open at muzzle velocity from a 338-06, it's a 150 yard bullet from a 338 Win mag. Seems like people would want a little more reach.

Yup and quite often too.

I've recovered failed bullets. it happens pretty often when guiding hunters. just have decent bullets in your rifle when backing up hunters with brand X, Coreloss, or whatever in thiers.

I expect a little more from a bullet than just hitting the animal.

THey are not that popular for sure, but I've seen a lot more 338-06 than I ever expected to. Likely due to Elmers writings of the 333 OKH basically...as a starter.

Been down to our heat here in TX lately?

If you are responding to me, all four "bullet failure" deer were recovered. The bullets came apart on impact, such that there was no more than 1" of penetration, something that I never worry about with the Partitions that I have used since then.

Some years ago, I put together a 338-06 on a Husqvarna 8000/9000 series action as part of a matched pair, the other half being chambered in 256 Newton, but I don't shoot either very often. This rifle shoots very well, with 210 grain Partitions being slightly more accurate than its 225 grain brother.

Jeff,

As I mentioned, a lot of hunters make the mistake of assuming ALL big game bullets of a certain brand and type work exactly the same, even though there's usually some difference in construction in bullets from, say, 6mm to .375. This is even true of Nosler Partitions.

All Nosler Partitions just 'pencil on through'.......right?

Bob,

I'm also not convinced the .338-06 is very popular. Maybe among some rifle loonies, but that's a very different thing than "real world" popularity. The only three I've seen in hunter's hands have been in mine....

Also, I suspect Weatherby was a little bitter after their reintroduction of the .338-06 (after A-Square fumbled around with it initially) fell really flat. Beforehand they asked a bunch of gun writers what they thought of the idea, which is much like asking Hollywood starlets about what cars might sell in Iowa.

I told them it was a fine cartridge, but they wouldn't sell many, which is exactly what happened, though that doesn't mean I know much about the gun business. Many other guys only mentioned the "great cartridge" part.

Jeff have not been down.

But looking ahead I may need some winter bass fishing so may come down to Austin over the winter.....I love those Texas Lunkers and want to fish Lake Austin





John I know 338/06 is a really good cartridge and I have been surprised it has not caught on except among looneys. But when it comes to rifle cartridges you are right that on the CF we view cartridges through an entirely different prism.....

I have tried to justify a medium on the 06 case many times but always conclude I'll just grab a 30/06 with 200's if I need it and if more is required a 375 or a 9.3 if I ever decide I'm done with a 375.

Which won't be soon because I have spare parts ready to box up and send to the smith for another 375 so how's that for convoluted logic? Campfire style?

Yes, I understand that, but I get "peace of mind" using Partitions, as they have yet to fail me and are a variable that I don't have to think about.

Yeah, that's why I use a lot of Partitions (and other premium bullets) as well.

But I leave it to others, especially Campfire members, to decide on the perfect big game bullet. My job is to try everything, and figure out how they work. As a result I've discovered that just about any bullet will work for some hunting, used within certain parameters--and have also discovered that some perfect bullets don't always work as well as some reputedly imperfect bullets.

JB,
On that note, have you tried a Cutting Edge MTH bullet?

I seldom make recommendation, 'cause I don't care what other people do unless their decisions have a direct impact on me and, unlike some, I realize that there are many ways to skin a cat.

prm,

I've shot them from several rifles, but haven't used them for hunting and don't plan to. They have a VERY tiny hollow-point, and my previous experience with tiny hollow-points on monolithic bullets is they tend to close up too easily. This most often happens during recoil, when the tips batter (however slightly) against the front of the magazine box.

Plus, the exceptional accuracy they advertise as part of the MTH's only showed up in one of my rifles, as I recall my NULA .30-06.(Even then, they didn't shoot any better than many other bullets in that rifle.) All the other loads shot just OK in my other rifles, when used with powders that shot well with other bullets.

On the other hand, I'm a fan of CE Raptors, partly because they've shot very well in every rifle I've tried them in, and the terminal performance is also very good, essentially monolithic penetration with some controlled fragmentation for more internal damage. The BC isn't as good as with the MTH's, but I tend to value accuracy and, especially, terminal performance over BC for general hunting. High BC doesn't do a lot of good at longer ranges if accuracy isn't exceptional in the first place.

Appreciate the insight. I too am leery of the small opening, hence my digging for actual experience.

The grass carp and drought have put the hurt on Lake Austin Bass, maybe it will re-bound with the spring rains we had.

Back to Sierra: They make a great bullet that I don't hunt with much. But they sure are nice to check the accuracy of a rifle and work up loads with. Usually one or another will be a close enough match to a Barnes or Nosler. And if I accidentally shoot one at game I usually end up with a butchering job.

They sell so many good target bullets why would they want to compete in an over crowded field? Although if you could combine a match king and partition you would really have something.

Many Long Range shooters say that the accuracy is not as good on a bonded bullet at extended range even if the shape is similar like the Accubond & BT of the same weight.

Tejano: Oh no! Thanks for the tip! Austin had some big largemouth. Looks like lake Fork!

I always considered a 9.3, a mid-bore on the '06 like the 338 OKH....

As to a MK/PT combo, what about the LRAB? No PT but results might be often be similar.

As to tip size, I recall a local hunter who used 220s on deer, he opened them up well with a drill bit, and said it was unreal deadly and destructive.

On that '06 200 mention, I can say Finn Aaggard did a test, and IIRC, the 200PT '06 rivaled the 210 PT in the 338/06.

That said, a mid-bore does all else equal have a larger wound channel, yet is it necessary.......

All this talk on 338 bullets, I can say I shot 215s, 225 speer and Hornday's at 200 yds....the 215's blew up in the dirt, the 225 Hornady's were classic Fat Mushroom, intact.

Personally, I settled on 2 bullets. 200 NBT for deer at 2910 mv and the 225 PT at 2670 for an Elk load. The 200gr shot 1/2moa, the PT, .6 MOA.

To stereotype say a Sierra brand bullet w/a broad brush stroke, is illogical. Specific bullets vary, some are tougher like the 250 .338, as Rich will tell you - they are made for large game. I would not expect it to perform like a PT in media test, not like a Barnes 225 or 230 FS.

I was flat impressed how the 85 BTHP GK works on deer in a 243. Heard rave reviews before and since on that bullet on deer. I would not try busting shoulders with it like I have with the 95 NBT but lung shots and neck shots, it's deadly.

Often times folks complain about "Bullet Failure" after recovering an animal in a short distance. No blood trail. No exit. Yada Yada. Dead is dead. If you want a blood trail, shoot a PT or mono, they are designed to do that.

I believe many cartridges can be well served by a hunter, when a given bullet is chosen based on it's design/performance parameters - for the type of hunting that is going to take place. The specific game, terrain/distance, etc.

Application matters. If one knows what they are trying to accomplish and wants advice, a quick toll-free call to Sierra will help. I have spent at least a few hours over many years talking to Rich, and a few others. They are happy to have you pick their brain, and are great folks to talk to, IME.

Gotta admit, since having probably 130 hunters in our camps since 2006, I've never seen a 338-06 either. We're only hunting aoudad, antelope, deer, and hogs though.

Bob, have some cahones' man. Venture down south to Falcon or Amistad and maybe you can see a good drug deal or shootout while your fishing for those monster largemouths. Add some spice to your life.

If that won't work, Toledo Bend is the ticket my friend.

I think the 338-06 is a fine cartridge, Not much you can't do with a 210 Partition at 2750-2800fps.

Although I have one, I would never argue that it is popular. Since I got on a 338 Fed kick, and have experienced it first hand on a wide range of critters, I don't see the need for the 338-06.

Back on the Sierra 215 GK, I was told by multiple sources that it is essentially a 250 GK with the tip trimmed back. The jacket at the tip is very thick.

Interesting thread..

I've used tons of Sierra's on whitetail deer through the years. They've never let me down and were quick killers. Most were exits, but I'm a lung shooter anyway. In fact, I don't recall a single bullet failing to exit.

I've used a bunch bullets from Barnes, Nosler, Hornady, Speer, Remington and Winchester.

I'd take any and all over a mono for lung shots on deer. I've never had a mono failure or fail to kill, but I've seen deer run some excessive distances when shot through the lungs with a mono. Shooting on bone or CNS is a different story...

Sierras are excellent. Where I got a negative opinion was from not being too astute and reading the manual. If a 180 gr designed for the 308 & 30-06 doesn't break a deers neck when shot from a 300 at close range its operator error not bullet failure.

I think that deer died from whiplash, I couldn't believe the bullet stopped on the neck vertebra even with a rut swollen neck. Typical sample of one and probably could never be repeated. Also typical of the old selective memory I don't recall the particulars on the dozens of times they worked perfectly including misuse of match kings on game.

Before I was told, and I guess I never read up on it as I was young and.... I ran 180 nosler partitions at 3100 out of a 300 wtby. Shot about a 225 pound buck in the neck around 125 steps. Same as you, the buck was paralyzed, and bullet was sitting expanded on the vertebrae on this side of the neck.
Went and got a handgun out of the truck when I found my pocketknife not long enough to reach the heart...

Its when I started searching for better.. and eventually found Barnes..

Was told later had I run 200 partitions it should have been different...different brand obviously, but still similar results...

Matchkings is the only sierra along with the .224 63 grain semi point that I've shot quite a bit with and have not had much varying results

Maybe they don't know how to make a hunting bullet...

No 260 not responding to you mate, or anyone. Just my two-bobs worth.


Probably more an expression of dismay that in many internet forums (not this thread per se) I read time and time again things like 'I personally have shot "X number" of "Y game animals" with the "Zmm cartridge" at ranges from Alpha to Beta, and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM died with a single shot.'

I'm not proud to admit it but I'll state there's been times I've needed all four or five rounds in the magazine to destroy an animal that was hit in the wrong spot trying an ambitious shot. I've lived that and for the most part learned from it.

It still happens sometimes, but I'm pleased to say not often when I've been the one taking the initial shot, but chipping in to prevent an animal getting away wounded when someone I'm hunting with is learning the same valuable lessons.


And without trying to be deliberately provocative, I'll say that anyone who hasn't had a similarly unpleasant experience while hunting, hasn't shot many animals.

The first elk I killed in the 70s I was using a 280 shooting 175 SGK's, and last fall took a large mule deer at 580 yds with the same 175 grain bullet out of a 7 mag. The bullet hit the deer at an angle, penetrated three feet of meat and grass filled gut leaving a fist sized exit hole.

I wouldn't hesitate to hunt heavy for caliber SGK's in 7mm/175 and 30/200 for a trophy elk hunt. In fact, I've gone to them of recent, for all my shooting in a 300 WSM and 7 Rem Mag. Great accuracy, good BC's and perform just short of Partitions in dry media test I've done.

I have never shot an animal either with a Sierra bullet but that is going to change this year. Going to try out the 140 gr HPBT in my 270 Win and 130 gr HPBT in the 260 Rem. When I get back into a 30 cal rifle (probably a 308 Norma or possibly a 30-06 again) I have some 180 gr Prohunters waiting in the man cave, that bullet seems to have a good reputation.

I just made up a batch with those for my 9" twist 223. They shot great with Varget, but I don't like the compressed load hassle. They shot great with TAC, but my locals don't keep it. So I'm trying CFE223 which has provided precision with 50 grain Bergers and 68 grain Hornadys. And my factory cro-mo Rem LTR barrel could use the decoppering help.

I've shot a bunch of pop cans and bottles at 500 yards with the 65gr GK and Bl-C(2)

Fist size exit from that shot would be enough to not ever shoot that bullet for me again.

Not a fan of huge exits at all.

But we all have our things.

My father used to love 165 Game Kings out of his 300 Win mag, so I guess he saw it differently,

I have never understood these "deer bullet" arguments. Deer are not hard to kill, and get taken every year by such a wide variety of guns, calibers, bullets, etc. that there is more than enough proof of effectiveness by the vast majority. The loose nut behind the trigger seems to be the biggest variable.

My deer hunting gun is whatever's handy when it's time to punch a tag. Literally. From .223 to .338 it doesn't seem to make much difference.

The one bullet I used that turned me away from them was a Speer HC 150gr out a my .30-06. The bullet fell apart shooting a buck at the base of the skull. It worked, but I wasn't impressed at all. I've successfully used 165 - 200gr. from them, but haven't a single one in 150gr .308" since. There are so many other good bullets I've never had a reason to go back. I never shot a Speer HC at bones, and when they were gone I never bought any more.

I have used Sierras in different weights & caliber and have not had an issue. I even used 140gr GK out of a 7mm Rem Mag and got full penetration on a Mule Deer twice. It was slightly quartering away, first looked like a good hit, but it turned and started down toward a draw. I hit him again. Upon recovery there were two holes through the chest within three inches of each other. The insides were like soup. Was this a failure?

If you don't want to damage meat, shoot the ribs with a slower bullet.

Nate, I've been amazed how game animals can run so far with both lungs and or the heart shot out.

I once attended a training session on knife defence. The instructor put up a supposedly researched and referenced chart saying among other things, that a severence of the various arteries from the carotid to the humeral would result in "death" within no more than 3 seconds.

He first baulked with a red face then called me a liar when I asked how could I shoot a pig and blow both lungs and the heart to shreds, yet said pig thereupon ran for 20+ seconds, covering the best part of 200 metres!

Interesting observation. Our own Mule Deer here , after shooting and being in on the shooting of hundreds of big game animals told me he figured it took about 12 seconds on average, for the hydraulics to give out.
This exactly mirrors my experience, and as we all know, a highly motivated deer or elk can cover a LOT of ground in 12 seconds....

Sometimes it takes way more than 12 seconds.

Look at ER stuff... folks can get shot, lungs, heart, mixes of the two and still make it to the ER alive...they may not live, but they ain't dead in 12 seconds at times.

There are a lot of factors involved.

And twice now we've shot mature bucks double lung shots, pretty much center of both lungs, not fringes and have found the bucks alive around 3 hours later as we wait sometimes 2-3 hours before trailing. If they bed up, they can clot up. Both times as teh bucks stood up and walked off, they broke the clot and died.

Everyone says its easy to kill em. Yes and no on that.

Re the post on the 140 7 mag sierra.... thats all grand, but explain the 160 being stopped on the spinal column on a 50 pound feral pig from a 7x300...mag...

The inconsistency is whats bothered me over the years. Barnes I've shot a lot of stuff with, never lost an animal using them. Never found no expansion like some have, certianly not close after tsx/ttsx came out, and thast out to 802 yards. The variance in performance with them has been nil.

When horn or bear hunting it is the exact performance I want.




My experience with X bullets.


Also, You shoot the top of the heart that animal is going down now.

Which projectiles were used?

One was a Rothar Snuffer 200 grain, the other a 4 blade black diamond Delta 145 grain IIRC.

I know you don't care for me. But I"ve never had that experience with an X of any flavor.

And I've also seen heart shot, top of heart taken out with rifle projectiles, and they run. Almost ever last one of them. Not far generally but they run.

I often wonder if its the differences in animals. Maybe WT vs MD?

My experience is similar, and I've seen MD and WT both show similar reactions to like shot placement and bullet performance.

Then again, I also saw a smallish WT buck take a 195gr Berger Hybrid broadside this last fall, absolutely smashing the vitals, the bullet retaining something like 30% of its original weight, recovered under the offside hide, and the deer still ran about 85-100 yards, or so. That's not supposed to happen. Weird things happen with critters, regardless of what bullet we shoot at them.

Speaking heart shots, I hit a fallow deer spiker a little low through the chest cavity with a 150g SST out of my 270 Win at 70 odd yards. Bullet hit the fore-leg bone before travelling through the chest.

It ran about 50y before falling down. It was still sitting upright looking at me when I head shot it to finish. I'm convinced it was the broken leg as much as anything that caused it to fall.

When dressing the animal the bottom of the chest was blown apart and the heart and lungs were OUTSIDE the deer and in a mess (ie shredded), yet it still ran that 50y and lived another 60 seconds until I got in position to head shoot it from around 40y.

This just goes to show that any bullet can produce strange results on occasion and shouldn't be judged by a single incident. But judge we will and sometimes the fewer facts the better.

I shot a small eight pointer on the shoulder (front shoulder) with a .375 260 grain Ballistic tip and the bullet didn't even make it into the chest cavity. Bone fragments did the deed.

At almost the exact same location I did a right left shot on a doe and a buck with a 25gr 17 Remington factory load the older ones that were bonded and both dropped on the spot.

So the .375 is not adequate for deer but the 17 Rem. is skookum?

Sierras are good just choose the right one.

Same with the early ballistic tips. I was in a tree stand and shooting downwards on a doe and tried to slip one in between the last ribs. Hit the spine instead and totally destroyed the back strap. You just don't know how badly this affects a Texan when you deprive them of their chicken fried back strap, made me swear off BT for a long time.

LOL, my first BT was my BILs 270, 130. Hit a doe in the head, and we picked up both pieces. Literally. Head here, laying on the ground and the rest of the deer.

I never bought a BT after that unless I was after varmints...

What do people expect from a bullet when you shoot a deer in the head?

I really have no trust in Sierra bullets in anything over 2,000 fps except for using a on prairie dogs and other varmints.
There bullets tend to be explosive.

I think you're being a little too cautious there.

Just my thought on the matter but I think it all depends on whether the heart has just pumped a load of fresh blood to the brain to is just getting ready to when struck by a bullet. If the brain has just received a fresh load of oxygenated blood and it send the signal to the body to run, run it will and how far is anyone's guess. However if the heart has just filled up with blood but has not yet pumped it and the bullets hits, the brain lacks the oxygen or whatever it needs to trigger off much of any kind of response, maybe a DRT to a very short wobbly walk and drop. I'm sure there are other factors involve including will to live but I do think that what I stated is a big part of the equation.
Paul B.

Eat up to the hole?

Good ol' "Sierra stalk"..............................

I've always liked the Sierra Gameking 85 GR. BTHP in my .243 for whitetails. Super accurate and kills the shyt out of them with never a problem. Interestingly, Nathan Foster recommends it as one of the most effective .243" bullets there is for medium game.

Does he "anneal" them?

I don't think so. I know I haven't.

NO I never implied the 215 was designed for the 338/06. But have killed a buutload of elk with it and Sierra confirmed the selection ...Your ex[erience is what?

My experience is what? None.

I have seen Sierra's used on elk plenty of times,but wouldn't consider using them myself. Elk hunts are too important. I couldn't be bothered with either Sierra bullets nor the 338/06 for elk hunting.

After seeing the results too many times I am reminded why I never use them on my elk hunts since there are FAR better bullets for the purpose. They suck.

You use what you want.

The things that shape our beliefs are interesting. The only deer I ever lost I lost to Nosler Ballistic Tip 165 fired from a 30-06. That deer literally sprayed blood all over surrounding vegetation as it ran off. We tracked it some 1/4 mile back into the woods and found where it had laid down. There was a pool of drying blood there. I shot another deer with a 115 BT 257 Roberts. That deer just walked around like it was confused for a moment then trotted and fell over perhaps 50 yards away. There was almost no blood at all. The bullet lodged under the far side hide. The lungs showed moderate damage. I am not a BT fan based on those two experiences. Plenty others have had near 100% DRT success with BTs.

I am a Partition man. I typically hunt thick stuff in fading light. I do my best to involve at least one of the shoulders. Based on my experience, that anchors them better than any other method. The Partition gives me the confidence to plow through a shoulder and take out vitals on the other side or to plow through vitals and take out a shoulder on the other side. Confidence counts. Should I ever have a trophy in my sights it'll be a Partition I launch at it.

I am like a lot of folks here. I have always considered Sierra to be an accuracy bullet first and a hunting bullet second. I have plenty of reason to trust Sierra accuracy. They have always served me well. I have never used a Sierra on larger game, and I never will. That decision based on zero experience. So many of us simply dance with the one we brung.

Sig-line material there.....

We trap hundreds of wild pigs. That gives the opportunity to shoot them from ten feet to 300 yards. We use 270's, 264 Win, 7 mags, 300 Win mags, 30 06's. We load 140 to 150 grain bullets. We have always used ballistic tips and partitions by Nosler. Ballistic tips will blow right through the shoulders of 200 lb pigs. Partitions will go through two or three. When bullets became hard to find we ended with a few boxes of Sierra GameKings. We tried them on pigs. They worked just as well. So since they are cheaper we have switched to Sierra. More bang for your buck. If a bullet will punch through a pig, it will go through a deer easy. I always used partitions or bear claws on Elk. We tried Bergers. If you shoot in the heart lung area he won't go far. If you hit in the shoot an animal in the shoulder it will not go through. I shot several that got back up and went right back to eating corn. I shoot big bucks in the shoulders. I don't like looking for them in the cactus and rattle snakes. I know I'm going to get flack for that, but I make hamburger out of all of it anyway.

Best sig line

And then there is Barnes, the solution for any problem. LOL.

Just what I like on an animal that weighs 200# and under. Tends to anchor them RFT!

You cannot argue with real on-game experience. And pigs are a hardy test for bullets.

If you look at favorite hog gun in this same forum, we have a bunch of pig pics.

Obviously some haven't chased a lung shot moose for a few miles in the bush. LOL

Pigs are pretty tough. We've shot probably over 100 by now with a 7mm08 and 120 ballistic tip. As stated, 90% of the time it's a complete pass through. It is a great hunting bullet for sure.

That principle is why I don't shoot "any ole bullet". I don't shoot premiums for 'deer' but I am particular about whose c/c I hunt.

Jerry

MD .... Ever use Sierras in your 257Roberts?

I have always used Hornady 100s in mine.

SC: hope you stocked up! And now I see where Speer is dropping the 100 and 120gr HCs!

I've got about 350pcs of the Hornady 100s.

I gave up on Speers. Have about 400pc of the 250 35cal here and will look elsewhere for 35cal bullets. Hornady is going down the same road.

Sierra is known for very accurate bullets. That's enough for that name.

They would diminish that by using the name for a premium game bullet.

Some say that a bullet that flies apart makes a greater wound in some situations. A bonded bullet would not do that.

SuperCub,

Have mostly used Hornadys when shooting cup-and-cores in the .257, but lately have been using more Ballistic Tips, especially the 100-grain. It seems to perform much like the 100-grain Spire Point, retaining around half its weight--on the unusual occasions when I find one.

I like the 110 Accubond in my 257 weatherby and 25-06's.

We caught a dozen pigs last weekend at the deer lease. We put 4 on a pair of rails with their feet hanging down. We backed off a hundred yards. Tried a partition through the shoulders with a 7 rem mag. The 140 went through 3 pigs and into the 4th. We took those 4 pigs off, put 4 more on the rails. We then tried a ballistic tip. It broke through 2 pigs and went into a 3rd. Next time I catch some I will try some Sierra bullets.

And?

If Sierra wants the extra business and thinks bonded bullets are best for hunting then they might introduce one that is bonded but with another name/brand.

That's a really great way to test bullets. Let us know how the Sierras do. Thanks for sharing!

BTW, how big were the hogs?

140 to 180 lbs. We kill a 250 lb pig every now and then. 150 is about average. This is in the Texas hill country near Austin. They get much bigger on my other lease near Woodville Texas. Woodville is in the piney woods. There have been some that pegged the 300 lb scale.

True, but I don't need a Porsche for my day to day driving.

62 grain TTSX out of a 223 will blow through a 200lb pig easy. We have shot dozens of them with the AR's. I can't imagine what a 140 or heavier could do at 3000 plus FPS.

They are making tipped Matchkings. Are they going to make a tipped GameKing? I like tipped bullets. The partition would look good with a plastic tip too.

The Partition works just fine without a plastic tip on it.

Mr. Nosler would turn over if they changed it.

That too!

I caught a pig that weighed 204 lbs Saturday. Backed off 100 yards. Shot him with a 150 GameKing out of a 308. Bullet went through both shoulders and kept going.

hanco,

In fact John Nosler made his son and grandson promise they'd never change the Partition. Which is why the AccuBond became the plastic-tipped equivalent--that, and the previous introduction (and extreme success) of the Ballistic Tip.

These days there are even Ballistic Tips that act much like Partitions when they hit game.

That is some excellent advice right there! Besides, I've never heard anyone complain about having too many bullets.

Yes Sir, I agree on the Nosler ballistic tip. Best thing is the different color tips. I have 7 rem mags, 264 Win mags, 270 Weatherby and had a 7mm Weatherby. I worry about lighting off a 7mag in a 264. I have killed many deer and pigs with ballistic tips. They are great. I used nothing but partitions for years. It's the best ever made in my opinion. It is what I take on trophy hunts.

I know you've mentioned it before, but where do the tougher BTs begin? Is it strictly by caliber, or is it by weight within the same caliber (excluding ones designated as "Varmint" of course).

Thanks.

I know for sure any from the 165 .30 on up have the really heavy jacket, at least 60% of the overall bullet weight, but there are some pretty stout ones below that as well.

I really like the 180 Ballistic tips in my 338 Federal. I have about 150 left and then I'll have to switch to Accubonds.

I guess a person could always buy a sample pack and disassemble one.

But then one enters into the vast unknown of the secret world of when manufacturers change bullet design/construction without letting the consumer in on the change.

True, but it's a heck of a lot closer to the egress of that world than trying to find the answer on internet forums.

Are you telling me that I can't trust all my pals here who say the 120gr 7mm BTip is a tough, awesome bullet??

How would your pals know when manufacturers change bullet design/construction without letting the consumer in on the change?

How would you know that they haven't changed the design since you dissected one. Guess you could test every box you buy?

BTW, I sympathize with your frustration that they "covertly " change the designs.