Anyone have one built lately? Looking for another 7mm, don't think that I gain anything over my 7mm08, but norma brass looks readily available. Strictly for hunting, I understand Melvin built his lightweight fame on this cartridge. Advice and opinions appreciated

Use a 3.1" action if you build.

I have some in Savage 99's (short actions for those that don't know) and use the Speer 145 grain SPBT bullet. They are wonderful to hunt with and perform very well.

You can absolutely use a Winchester 70 short action and load the 140's just fine. Redneck, here on the campfire, built one for my son that shot/fed perfectly. Rebarreled a 243. (Pac Nor barrel) Plenty of magazine length. Good for mouse to moose! 2900 with a 160 Accubond easily obtainable. 120BT laser death ray on whitetail! It's a great caliber. Build it.

If you're looking for more speed than the 7mm-08 offers, I think that the 270 WSM, 7mm WSM, and 7mm SAUM are all better choices than the 284. The only 284s that I'm keeping are collectible rifles from Savage and Winchester.

I think that the 284's 55mm case length is a sub-optimal choice in a Remington short action because of the COAL limits imposed by the 2.800" magazines. Longer short actions would be a better choice, but I can't see doing a 284 in a long action when the 280 and 280 AI are available.

Well I have 1 in a 98 and there's plenty of room for COAL.

MY ONLY hold up is some DUMB XXX gunsmith who screwed up the scope base hole alignment. I have some 'windage adjustable' rings****have to use because I don't TRUST any smith to fill & re-drill & tap.***

AFTER deer season this is my FIRST project. I've been looking forward to having a 284 W for a long time.

280s are fine but they're NOT 284s.

Jerry

Jim Borden now offers a mid size Ridgeline 3.2" action , ideal for the .284win.

The Winchester SA might work perfect for one...

That sounds like a wicked rifle.

The OP asked for opinions and I gave mine. I have owned dozens of 284s, still several Savage 99s and Winchester 88s, but they are collectibles, not shooters. If the OP is looking for more performance out of a short action 7mm why go 284 when the 7mm SAUM and 7mm WSM fit in the same action and offer more performance?

For no particular reason, I hold the 284 in the same regard as the 300H&H. Cool factor, and works.

And a few years back he told me for today he would go 7mm-08. But, makes little difference if that is what you want.

I didn't read the OP as wanting .284win for more 7mm performance, sounds more like he just wants to have a .284win.

If not for the slight performance advantage, I can't see why anyone would go to the trouble of doing a 284 in favor of a 7mm-08. But, I'm the same guy who favors the 256 Newton over the 6.5-06, so what do I know?

I built one on a Savage short action, allows me to seat out to 2.95 and still work in the detachable magazine. I used a Adams and Bennett barrel that was a 7mm08. It shoots pretty well. Best of Luck

I had one built on a 700 SA with a Wyatt box and have never regretted it. It's a very accurate "270, a 280" in a short action rifle. In fact I think it's an excellent cartridge design; if renamed the 7 mm OSF (Original Short Fat) it might begin selling again.

The 284 Winchester--<Thread Title>



OP plainly states, "don't think I gain anything over my 7mm08."

For the same reason some WANT 6.5 Creed, 6.5X47, et.al., et.al.,

I wanted a 284 JUST BECAUSE. We don't have to justify WHY to everyone OR anyone.

I have and LOVE my 300 WM--don't need it, just like it and WANT it.

I want a 284 W. It's different- It's KOOL imo because of the case design. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

BTW- IMO the 284W can best the 7-08--maybe not by a whole lot but some. That's NOT why the OP is asking.

BTW - 260 RG - I didn't pull your chain nor direct my comment toward you.

Jerry

Apart from the 10" twist and excessive taper, I won't hold it against you. It reminds me a lot of the 7x64 Brenneke vs .280 Rem, or more recently .280 AI comparisons; less taper, and quicker twist.

The .256 Newton had its day, but that day has passed.

I have to agree that the 7mm-08 gives 90%, without the grief of the .284 case.

I've had some grief in my life but none were due to the 284 case. It's always interesting when people are so sure of what's not true.

The 284 Winchester is a great cartridge, as is the 6.5x284. I've owned both and found the 6.5mm version to be just as capable as the 284.

I will say, the 284 loaded with a 154gr Hornady Innerlock is a great combination for bull elk sized game. Again I feel the 284 deserves a 3.1" Magazine.

I appreciate all the input,I too think the 284 is a cool cartridge. I have gone full circle with 7mms,guess I might be a little short on mag length if dreaming up a tikka build. Thinking I would do something just a little different. But, this is coming from a guy who just bought 300 pieces of 7wsm brass, I don't even have a 7wsm anymore.

284 is about the only 7mm I don't own

I say do it you will not regret it. I always like the look i get when people ask me what i am shooting. Only a true rifle loon can appreciate things like that.

I measured my SA M-70 EW this week. With the spacer removed from the mag, it measures 3.090.

Every hand load I've made through the years for a 7X57 would fit in this!

I bought my first deer rifle in 1966, a .284 Winchester and with it, I made my two longest kills. A bit over 300 yards each with handloaded 130 grain Speer bullets and IMR-4350 or H-4831, don't remember which powder. I say go for it!

I hear you there. That's what I was thinking. It would make a nice 284 sized rifle.

I think the 284 Win is just toooooo cool for some.
I have a R77 rebarreled with a Shaw and chambered in 284 Win. I have also had a 6x284 and also have a 6.5x284. All great.
Just make sure you have enough box and action length.
Some tweaking may be needed, but there are those who can do that well if needed.
Mine shoots everything well, but ended up with 120BTs, 140SBs and 160NPs for standard loads. A hammer for most anything on this continent.
And I have nothing against any other 7mm round.
Tim

There's nothing magical about the 284 but there's nothing magical about any cartridge; but the vissitudes of fate initially matched it with unkind (to it) rifles. Now that we can know better how it can be properly housed it is an excellent short 270-280. Not many decry those two for being well balanced, very effective big game cartridges.

My longest shot was a Nebraska whitetail buck right at a ranged 500 yes with a 150-gr at 3000 fps. I have since dropped down to the 140-gr TTSX at 3150 fps. This last load goes into .5 MOA at 400 yards.

Well said and double dittos on the 120NBT.


I've had a bunch of 284s but my favorite woods gun was a Browning Micro Medallion.

The 120NBT kills deer far above its pay grade.

There are several articles over on Accurate Shooter about the .284 Win

I forget about accurate shooter, I assume most smiths could get the reamer or knock the dust off one in the shop..... this site is terrible for peer pressure ☺

I used the 120 BT out of my .284 Win at 3200 FPS on 2 deer. One was a whitetail buck at 35 yards. The deer was walking at the time and just took off, but died after a 40 yard run. I hit the heart and found the coreless case in the off shoulder. The next day I shot a mule deer doe at 280 yards through the shoulder. The bullet deflected up through the neck and out the head on the opposite side.

From my Win. Mod 88 it would put 5 round into 1/2' or less with regularity. This is why I used it and all the positives about it here on the fire. After my experience on game I am a little leery of it.

By the way, if I were to build a rifle I would want it in .284 also. I just like this cartridge.

I think that since you are building a rifle to meet your specific wants/needs, you should build it in whatever configuration you want to build. There is no doubt that the rebated rim 284 is cool, so if cool is an important node on your decision hierarchy, the 284 is worthy of strong consideration.

You're right about peer pressure. If a person was susceptible to peer pressure, all the great ideas brought forth in this place could send that person to the poor house, particularly if he/she chased even a fraction of the hot trends. I'd be willing to bet that McMillan sold more than a few stocks to guys who were blissfully ignorant of them before they came here, saw Big Stick's pile of "McSwirleys", and then placed their orders.

Good luck with your build.

AND be sure the throat is NOT too short to USE the mag length.
This is ALSO important.

I ran into that with a Win production 70 in 270. I had plenty mag length BUT the throat was so short the bullets had to be seated very deep. The bullets in a loaded round look like a birds beak.

Jerry

if i were building a hunting rifle in 284 winchester this is the way i would do it....

buy a used Forbes short action rifle that will give you a great stock and an action that will be 3.00 inch oal capable then send it to Melvin Forbes and have him install a #2 barrel at 22 inches....Melvin has probably built more 284 winchester chambered rifles than anybody

Easy to do on a Tikka T3 too.

Has Lapua brass been mentioned in addition to Norma?

Good stuff.

Well, I have 2. One is a Browning micro lightweight and the other is an ULA. I originally bought the browning because it was available and it has been a fantastic rifle. Then I bought an ULA, and all my other rifles sit…it is a great round.

Could you go 7mm-08 and be close? sure. With modern powders they are close. But I wouldn’t hesitate to go 284 Win.

Did Winchester ever chamber the M70 in 284 WIN caliber?

.284win was only offered in the M88 and M100.

In the 1990s(?), Winchester/USRA made a limited run of 284s in a detachable magazine Model 70.

Entirely slipped my mind, IIRC they made one run of only 200
all too little too late especially for a 1963 release proprietary cartridge.

I identify with this. Hunted whitetail with .284 for years. Deadly!

You won't be sorry..

There is a browning medallion with a 20 inch barrel on gunbroker right now at a decent price. I got the lead bid but don't really need it cause I gorgeous you savage, a ruger and a winchester dbm all in 284.

Dam auto correct. Lol

I had an early Ruger M77 flat bolt in 284 Winchester. I had a nice hand load with a Speer 130 grainer over some IMR-4350. Shot my best mulie buck with that gun and load. I sill wonder why I sold it.

Yep! It AIN'T limited to the 284 case either. W/O going into a list, I've read many things about many rifle brands - cartridges - bullets - cases - etc. that I have NOT had ANY problems with at all. I'm not sure at all WHERE some ideas come from. I just S M H and go on.

Jerry

For the last 10 yrs, I've owned a 284 win built on a late model NH CRF Win M-70 SA. It's gone through several iterations:

Originally had a factory stock and its 7-08 barrel reamed to 284 - shot about 1.25" groups
Put it in a McM Edge, put a fluted Bartlein #3 on it and had the action trued - shot a little better - maybe 0.80" groups but was very picky.
It currently has a Douglas #2 on it (installed by Douglas) and is in a 12.5" lop B&C ltwt Medalist for the wife to use since she had a Remington trigger issue last year and has sworn off Remingtons forever. It's not shooting that well - maybe 1.25".

We've taken several deer over the years with this rifle in all three configurations, Hope got a nice 9 pointer with it this year at about 160 yds with 140 gr Nosler AB (one shot DRT).

But I am not happy with the accuracy. I'm thinking about selling it all - trued SA with spacer removed, both stocks and all 3 barrels.

The .284 is a great cartridge, especially in my NULA!

I have had one or two 284s in the collection for over 30 yrs.

The oldest one and one that I will never part with is a Ruger M77 tang safety that was a 6mm Rem. While it has had a few modifications over the years it always fed this cartridge fast or slow with no issues. It is now on barrel #4.

This rifle has taken elk, coues wt and javelina as well as jackrabbits and coyotes. Used a wide variety of bullets from 100 gr X to 160 partitions. Too many to list.

At one point I had my gunsmith lengthen the mag box to 3.1" for a useful OAL of 3.050".

I like this cartridge so much I built a twin to the Ruger using another tang safety Ruger in 6mm-284. I can use the same S bushing die and much to my surprise the 284 win competition seater die works fine with the 6mm-284!

Recently rebarreled the 284 win again. This time I used a reamer made to my specifications to seat the 168 VLD .015" into lands. Very accurate. Killed a coues wt at 450 yds last year.

IMO best powders for bullet from 120 gr to 168 gr are H4350 or RL-17

While Winchester brass is sometimes hard to find and not of the best quality there are two options. You can neck up 6.5-284 Lapua brass OR buy Bullets.com's brass made by Norma, which is made to very strict standards.

read about bullets.com's 284 win brass here:
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...asher-and-284-win-brass-for-bullets-com/

link to buy the Norma brass. It is on sale:
http://bullets.com/search?q=(category:Brass)+AND+(brand:Norma)+AND+(cartridge:%22.284+Win%22)

Make a 284 win and enjoy it.

I built a 284 awhile back only it's necked down to .224 I love that lazer flat shooter 22-284

If Winchester had chambered it on a 3" box in the Model 70 Featherweight, they would have owned the market for "mountain" rifles and changed the course of cartridge development history.

From the very beginning, Winchester could have chambered the 284 in the Model 70 with a magazine block and shorter bolt stop, but they chose not to do so. If they had felt that the 284 would be a critical node on the timeline of cartridge development history, I'm pretty sure that they would have seized the opportunity to leverage it for every cent that it would generate. Heck, Federal and Remington were so taken by the 284 that they have never sold loaded ammo or component brass for it and Remington has never built a rifle chambered for it. Even when Winchester introduced the short action Model 70 in 1984, they chose not to chamber the 284. That doesn't mean that the 284 is a bad cartridge, it just means that no American manufacturer of firearms or ammunition ever felt that it would be a big enough seller to make a major commitment to it.

circa 1963, What advantage would M70 .284win FW offer over FW .270win?
I dont see any good reason that would cause the consumer market to rush to the .284win
Rem. also ventured into the short-fat market with its bolt action 6.5mm Rem Mag but most
didn't care for it.

Likely none. The cartridge was not developed for bolt rifles; it was made for the Winchester 88 and 100 IIRC,to give 270-like ballistics in those actions....sort of like a short 280 Rem for their pumps and autos.

(Funny both the 280 and 284 were designed with the same objective and when they tried to move to bolt guns they both got hammered by the 270 ).

It may come as a shock but even as far back as the late 60's no one really gave a hoot about short actions. Ruger was among the first to offer them in the new M77,but everyone I knew who bought one waited until they offered a 270 or 30/06. You saw a 284 here and there.

I never saw a SA as a virtue in and of itself and still could care less about them,so the 284 never got a second look from me.

I hung with some real rifle nuts.....one had Dale Goens build a 284 on a pre 64 30/06 action so he could seat bullets out long. I had the temerity to ask the guy why he didn't just build a 280 instead and he almost never talked to me again.

How many 284's Goens built I have no idea but I bet it was not many.

Bob

I knew very little about the 284W @ 1980 but I liked the idea of the 88 in 284.

Now, I've come to like the 'looks' of the case in a Mauser 98.

I'd take a 284 over the 260, oh that's right, I already did.

Jerry

The .284 is an interesting cartridge that fills a niche. If you are using a long, heavy action, the .280 competes with it effectively. If you want to use a short action, it gives more powder capacity and performance than the popular 7-08. In the ULA/NULA, Melvin recognized its potential for use in his short, light Model 20 (20 ounces) action to maximize performance with a factory round.

While it is absolutely true that the 284 case holds more powder than the 7mm-08 case, the difference in performance isn't very large, maybe 150 fps if all other variable factors remain constant/equal. And, until Norma birthed their version of the 6.5-284, component brass was often hard to find and expensive when finally found. Winchester/Olin's decision to make 284 component brass only as a seasonal run saw to that.

I like the 284 and 284 based wildcat, probably have a dozen or more of them around, but my positive bias toward the 284 doesn't cloud my vision to its deficiencies. The point being that if you're going to jump into the 284 pool, you should do so knowing both the positives and the negatives so that you can make an informed decision.

I ran a WSM box on a M-70 (Redneck build) and with 52gr of RL-15 at 63.5K it pushed 120 NBT's to 3260fps and was pretty devistating on Whitetails both near and far.

I think 3260fps "might" be a gain over the 7-08. Others may not.

BTW that 120 NBT is one tough bullet! I recovered one from the back leather of a Buck shot straight on just above the nose, the jacket recovered jacked weighed over 50gr.

If all variables are equal, my experience with both cartridges has been that larger case capacity of the 284, around +/- 10 grains, gives it a muzzle velocity advantage of around 150+/- fps over the 7mm-08. In the 1980s and into the 1990s I shot the crap out of the 284 and a variety of 284 based wildcats. Heck, I probably have a couple hundred rounds of 125 and 150 grain Yellow and White box Winchester/Olin factory loads in the storage unit and at least 300 rounds of reloads.

Unless I'm mistaken Rl 15 & Rl 17 weren't available in the 80s-90s.

There are 1980 Trucks &
There are 2016 Trucks

No comparison.\

Jerry

Another instance of reading incomprehension...

So, if RL15 and/or RL17 are the powders that get the maximum velocity out of the 284, it seem logical that the solution is to load RL15 or RL17 in the 7mm-08 and get approximately the same 150+/- fps fewer fps of mv that the same powder, loaded to the same pressures, gets out of the 284, assuming that all variable are kept constant/equal.

BTW, 150+/- fps of mv is what the Allient site shows for the only comparable bullet for RL15.

If... If...

WHO has tried those powders in the 7-08?
You ?



Jerry

Apparently Alliant has tried RL15, as they have some load data for both cartridges using that powder on their site. www.alliantpowder.com If you look, you'll see that the velocity of their single bullet weight to bullet weight comparison in the 7mm08 and 284 has a MV difference of approximately 150 fps in favor of the larger 284.

No, I don't reload for the 7mm08, I'm happy shooting 139 grain Hornady American Whitetail factory ammo, and I prefer to shoot my 7x57s and 7mm SAUM in place of my 284s which are all heavily greased and boxed for storage.

True, Bob, but if the 280 had been loaded to the same pressures as the 270 it might have been different outcome.
The 270 had a 40 year head start and it took 15 years for its virtues to even get noticed, thanks to JOC.



Remington came out in '66 with the very first short mag in 6.5. ... WAY AHEAD of its time, like the 270 of the '20's, it needed someone to promote it.

There is still a place for short actions and short barrels and ballistics that can overcome and make up for that short-compact ergonomical package.

I have a 338 RCM with a 20" barrel and 13" LOP,(i'm 6'1").... great stalking/still hunting/woods hunting/back packing rifle.

The way it carries and comes up quick to the shoulder and points! ... I like it.

Just a different tool, that personally I find a great need for.


In regards to the 284 Win, what's a guy to do?
Should I get a 284 Win in a 23" barrel or get a 280 Rem in a 22" barrel?

Bob I'd get the 280. It seems brass and ammo are easier to access but I have not paid attention to the 284 so don't really know.

Plus I like standard length actions vs short actions,unless Im shooting varmint cartridges.... I am tall and short action rifles feel ill balanced and short coupled to me.

I was a kid during the 1950's when the 280 came out but later on most of the writers never had a bad thing to say about it, except that factory ammo did not keep up with advertised claims.....even after the name switch from 280 to "7mm Remington Express" and back again. Friends and I had them; we used them.


BTW the guy who had Goens build the 284 on the pre 64 action was Warren Cassidy, former NRA president,and a North Shore of Massachusetts local. I knew Warren since we hung out at the same gun store here but have not seen him in years. I don't know if he is still alive This was the same store that Bob Chatfield-Taylor used to frequent. It was a hot bed of rifle nuts...

Bob generally you are correct 280 vs 284.

I recently got my 284, just because. I found 284 brass AFTER some searching. 280 brass is easier found NOW thru factory ammo. As you know Rem & Win are not offering brass to reloaders. Not much luck with 284 FACTORY.

As in my case the 284 is just an addition of a rifle in a cartridge that interest me. I simply will use it for hunting and NOT my ONLY rifle. Those things have bearing.

I would NOT recommend the 284 to anyone as their MAIN shooting/hunting rifle because of lack of factory ammo & brass availability.

Also the 284 in a 98 is a STANDARD length action. I understand you height/length per S A and it makes sense.

This is NO reference to you. The OP stated he's looking at the 284 much the same as I do. Some stretched the subject well past the OP's interest and intent.

In general I'd take a 270 OR 280 before the 284 in most cases for more than 1 reason. If anyone wants something bad enuff NOT MUCH is UNobtainable.

Jerry

Jerry of course the 7 Rem Mag sort of squished everything.....the 264, the 280, the 284. It and the 270 were simply too much for the competition.

Its fun to speculate what might have been but it all never happened.

[quote=260Remguy]While it is absolutely true that the 284 case holds more powder than the 7mm-08 case, the difference in performance isn't very large, maybe 150 fps if all other variable factors remain constant/equal.


So may I deduct from this that when the 7-08 is run at 63.5K pressure wise (where I'm running my 284) "with all other variable factors remaining the same" we can expect to see 3100 with 120gr NBT's.?

My Lee manual calls for a max load of 45 grains Varget with a 120 pill for 3117 FPS @ 58537 PSI. My Hornady manuals says 43.7 grains is max for Varget running 3000 FPS, but no pressure info listed.

If you subscribe to Mule Deer's 4 to 1, case capacity increase to velocity increase rule of thumb, you can assume that since the 284 has approximately 18% more case capacity than the 7MM-08, it is likely to gain approximately 4.5% more velocity across the board. For example, if you're getting 3,260 fps with your 63.5K load in the 284, you should get approximately 95.5% of 3,260 fps, 3,113 fps, out of a 7mm08 loaded to the same pressures if all other variable factors remain constant/equal.

With 120 grain bullets, the Hodgdon site shows a velocity range from 2,968 to 3,151 for their maximum recommended loads in the 7mm-08. They show a velocity range from 3,018 to 3,245 for their maximum recommended loads in the 284. The maximum load to maximum load difference is less than 100 fps, about 3%.

I would like to have one of the 99's 284. Be great woods gun.

Don't know how they worked out from actual experience with that chambering in the 99, but the Winchester Model 88 & 100 were what the .284 was designed for.

Todays Long Bullets, and short Necks changes the situation; to the point where cats like the 6.5-284 fit best in a .30'06 length action.

I like them alot. I have settled on the .284 and .358 as the most effective cartridges available in the Savage 99. I guess you could include the 22-250 also. Anyway, the .284 is very accurate in my 99's.

This years blacktail



A few years ago




The norm for me is to jump shoot running deer and the 99 in .284 works great.

Fireball -

SWEET.

Yeah the 99 is great for quick handling & yutes & wimmins because of the short L O P. It's too short for some, those with long arms & necks.

I "HOPE" to finish my 284 project this Spring. This is my first 284 and really looking forward to hunting it.

CONGRATS

Jerry

As my boys started hunting I built both of them a 248 Win on 700 short actions. I loaded 145 grain Speer Hot Cores because of the flat tip. I had to modify the magazine some and use a mag follower from a 6.5 Rem Mag. They fed just fine and both boys have moved on to 30 cal Magnums. They were ideal to start them out with.

You could build a full battery on the 284 case. Everything from 243 up to 358.

I've done 284 based wildcats in .243", .257", .264", .308", .338", and .358" in bolt guns and Savage 99C/CDs. I like the 25-284, 6.5-284, and 338-284 the best.

260 : What OAL didi you use for each of those ?

I assume the 99's were standard 2.8" SA, but what about the 6.5 and 338 ?