Due to the success I've had with 175 RNs in my 7x57 in killing small deer and large hogs with very little meat damage, I've decided to try something similar with my 30-06. I suspect the main reason the 7x57 works so well is that the 175RNs were made for the 7x57. I know nothing can compare to the superior 7x57. Is there a 180-220gn bullet that would perform similarly at 2400-2500fps, in my 30-06. I'm pretty sure most will be good on hogs, it's the does I'm worried about. What say yee? Thanks captdavid
Can't tell you about the 30.06/220 gr RN performance on whitetail yet, but I can say that armadillos don't like'em!
Don't let the spire points in the shell holder fool you. I only had 5 RN loaded, one was used on the 'dillo and the other four were still in the magazine. The four spitzers shot close enuf to the RN zero to be used in an unusual event....like the need to repel boarders.
BTW, this was the entry wound. I was quite surprised what the RN did to the guy's shell.
I used to use 180 gr. round nose core-lokt factory loads out of my Rem. 760 carbine .30-06. I doubt they were doing much over 2500 out of the 18.5" barrel. They worked good on deer.
Due to the success I've had with 175 RNs in my 7x57 in killing small deer and large hogs with very little meat damage, I've decided to try something similar with my 30-06. I suspect the main reason the 7x57 works so well is that the 175RNs were made for the 7x57. I know nothing can compare to the superior 7x57. Is there a 180-220gn bullet that would perform similarly at 2400-2500fps, in my 30-06. I'm pretty sure most will be good on hogs, it's the does I'm worried about. What say yee? Thanks captdavid
I suppose my question is, If you have a 7x57, what's the point?
I know what u mean. The 7x57 is perfect for me, and most others, truth being told. I have a 280 also. If was built for long range, for me anyway. I use it occasionally. The last time I used the 30-06 was 5yrs ago. I'm just trying to find some reason to use it. Captdavid
Loading 150-165gr bullets down a bit will keep the velocity out of the explosive range and also kill just fine without added recoil. Careful shot placement helps too. If you must, heavy thirties loaded to the same velocity as your 7x57 should act pretty much the same way.
Pay no attention to RevMike. He wears special glasses while hunting that superimpose tiger stripes on everything he shoots.😛
I'm a firm believer in the 165 grain and 150 grain offerings in 30-06. We take nearly all of our deer here with them. I used to worship at the 180 grain shrine, but I found these lightweights offered as good performance with a lot less recoil and have stuck with them for the past 16 seasons.
The move to the 165 grainers was precipitated by the suggestions of folks on this august forum. Personally, I'd save the 220 grainers for bigger things besides deer.
I'm a firm believer in the 165 grain and 150 grain offerings in 30-06. We take nearly all of our deer here with them.
I used to worship at the 180 grain shrine, but I found these lightweights offered as good performance with a lot less recoil and have stuck with them for the past 16 seasons.
I've never been able to tell a bit of difference in recoil between 150, 165 and 180 grain bullets in my .30-06's. Guess I'm just not as in touch with my sensitive side as some.
I've never been able to tell a bit of difference in recoil between 150, 165 and 180 grain bullets in my .30-06's. Guess I'm just not as in touch with my sensitive side as some.
Same here,even with 220's. Although I did make a stock that fits me and due to a bad s shoulder,I had a brake installed and limit my exposure to those heavy bullets
When I was a kid deer hunting meant the Adirondacks. I always had the idea that anything other than a 180 grain RN in a .30-06 was some kind of radical departure from tradition and accepted practice. I thought I was really getting out there with 165 grain handloads in my 03-A3.
Guys, come on, I know all that about the 165s. I've been using them for 30yrs. They are perfect for what I use them for, not any better than what 150s do in my 7x57, but fine. I'm looking for a heavy slower bullet that will perform well on deer, so I can find a use for my 30-06. Please let us get back on track. Captdavid
If you're still talking about the 150 yard and closer shots you've mentioned then many cup and core bullets will do. Speer boat tails are on the soft side. Just take one of those in 150, 165, or 180 grains and load it to 300 Savage velocity. Voila! A proven deer killer that doesn't blow things up.
The reason the 175 roundnoses work so well in your 7x57 isn't because they have round noses, but because of the moderate muzzle velocity.
There were three reasons for round-nose bullets back when smokeless powder started to become the In Thing:
1) Most early smokeless rounds were military, and since previous black powder military rounds mostly used heavy, round-nosed bullets, that's what were used in most early smokeless rounds. But the switch to lighter spitzers started shortly, and was pretty much complete within 50 years.
2) The prevalence of tube magazines, especially in lever-action hunting rifles, made blunt-nosed bullets a necessity, in order to prevent setting off the primers of the rounds in front. But with Hornady's FTX bullets even that isn't true anymore.
3) Many hunters believed blunt-nosed bullets "busted brush" better, but that turned out to be BS.
4) Many people found that early round-nosed bullets sometimes expanded more reliably that early soft-nosed spitzers, but that's pretty much been solved for decades now. I used to use the original 200-grain Nosler Partition in the .30-06, a "semi-spitzer," at about 2550 fps for timber hunting, partly because it was the deepest-penetrating bullet available back then, and partly because it killed well due to the soft front core expanding easily, but didn't shoot up much meat.
But if you really want to use a blunt-nosed bullet, plenty of company still make them in .30 caliber, in weights from 150-220 grains. Probably the 170's made for the .30-30 would work as well as the 175's from the 7x57 if loaded to similar velocities.
Always liked round nosed 150 in 270 and 180 in 30-06, for most general wood guns.
The longer base to tip bearing surface in the bore of a flat based round nose always seemed to be forgiving and easy to load up accurately. I try to save the heart, and bullets run through the lungs on deer, above the heart, tend to make clean kills leaving little excess damage.
My rule of thumb, if I were tending to lose the heart, with excessive jelly bloodshot meat, I'd stop using that combo. The flat based round nose were reliable for me.
John, the 175 RN @2400fps is what I'm trying to replicate in the 30-06. I'm trying to find out which heavier bullet might open up at slower speeds, yet might not bloodshot as much as the 165s. Even at slower speeds the 170s open to violently. Captdavid
John, the 175 RN @2400fps is what I'm trying to replicate in the 30-06. I'm trying to find out which heavier bullet might open up at slower speeds, yet might not bloodshot as much as the 165s. Even at slower speeds the 170s open to violently. Captdavid
In the case of 165s its the speed that does the bloodshot....faster always equals more bloodshot. In the caee of the 170s..its the bullet, they are designed for .30-30 velocity ( 2100 fps) and will be too violent at 24000....
Look up Hornady 220 RN bullet # 3090...that will be your Huckleberry.
John, the 175 RN @2400fps is what I'm trying to replicate in the 30-06. I'm trying to find out which heavier bullet might open up at slower speeds, yet might not bloodshot as much as the 165s. Even at slower speeds the 170s open to violently. Captdavid
John, the 175 RN @2400fps is what I'm trying to replicate in the 30-06. I'm trying to find out which heavier bullet might open up at slower speeds, yet might not bloodshot as much as the 165s. Even at slower speeds the 170s open to violently. Captdavid
John, the 175 RN @2400fps is what I'm trying to replicate in the 30-06. I'm trying to find out which heavier bullet might open up at slower speeds, yet might not bloodshot as much as the 165s. Even at slower speeds the 170s open to violently. Captdavid
Sounds like you need to rebore it to .338 and load up some Speer 200's! That's the perfect match to your 7X57!
That has not been my experience with all 170-grain bullets for the .30-30, including the Core-Lokt and Nosler Partition. But if you really want to use a bullet that will expand without "exploding" in the .30-06, use the 200- or 220-grain Nosler Partition at 2400-2500 fps, which I hinted at earlier in my post. It doesn't really matter if one's a spitzer and one's a round-nose, they will both work.
I'm trying to remember which gun rag I saw this in but it was written by the late Finn Aagaard. He did a bunch of cull hunts of Whitetail Deer on the ranch he was livings. He used the 30-06 and 220 gr. bullets. I forget which but he said they not only worked quite well but did minimal meat damage as well. I'm thinking maybe Rifle, Handloader or Successful Hunter but it could be one of the others as well. If I can find the time, I'll try and look for it. Paul B.
I had a friend borrow a PH's rifle in Africa for a day. It was a 30-06 shooting 220 RNs. He had a shot at a Zebra in amongst many small trees. He took a shot and managed to kill a tree and a Zebra in one shot. After passing through the tree, the bullet entered the Zebra flying sideways and dropped the Zebra rather quickly. Cool looking entrance would though!
Thanks John, maybe that will get me closer to a gun I've desired but couldn't rationalize, the 318WR. On my one trip to Africa 40yrs ago I was the last booked hunt. The lodge was a gatherings place for several PHs from the surrounding area. I remember three things distinctly: 1.They lamented the demise of the 318WR. 2. They really didn't like the 300 mags. It wasn't because they were not good. It was because they weren't needed and because of the hunters using them. Most couldn't handle them. 3. Most hunters would be better off using the 30-06 they left at home. Thanks for your help, captdavid
i read somewhere that there are several locales in the USA where a lot of hunters shoot the 165 grain RN corelokt load out of their 280s. so i bought a box out of sheer curiosity... ... ... and got six inch groups at 100 yards. Dang. I decided i did not need to experiment any further, and went back to spitzers. i hope you have better luck with RN bullets in your 30-06...
The various 30-30 170 grain round nose flat points worked really well in my 308 pushed to moderate velocities. Soft enough for deer hard enough for Hogs and if anything the flat tip added to the leathality like a wad cutter or flat nosed solid.
Forgot what the velocity was but about 2300-2400 is my guess. I used a medium charge of 4350 for this. Another one to look for is the 200 grain bullet for the 300 Savage. Haven't shot this one but I believe Sam Fadala liked to use them for culling.
The Corelokt is never a bad choice either if you can find them. Last I found were the old style pre-bean counter type with a double tapered jacket.
I'm not so much worried about killing the hogs as I always try to take out one shoulder. I Just don't want to pencil-through a doe with a double-lung shot.
Another one to look for is the 200 grain bullet for the 300 Savage.
I thought I was miss-remembering, and didn't mention it but the first reloader that I talked to used to load those in a 308. Where can I get them? Captdavid
I'm not so much worried about killing the hogs as I always try to take out one shoulder. I Just don't want to pencil-through a doe with a double-lung shot.
Another one to look for is the 200 grain bullet for the 300 Savage.
I thought I was miss-remembering, and didn't mention it but the first reloader that I talked to used to load those in a 308. Where can I get them? Captdavid
I think you're pushing the concept a bit far here. I've loaded lots and lots of 300 Savage. I have a 700 Classic that I've enjoyed shooting quite a bit, far more than hunting requirements dictate. A 180 at 2400 is right in the little 300's wheelhouse, and it would do just what you're asking it to.
The reason the 175 roundnoses work so well in your 7x57 isn't because they have round noses, but because of the moderate muzzle velocity.
........
Probably the 170's made for the .30-30 would work as well as the 175's from the 7x57 if loaded to similar velocities.
I just put together some practice loads using the old 175 grain Deep Curl bullets at a scorching 2100 fps. I might try them on a pig just to see how expansion is with that bullet at that velocity. My guess is that inside of 100 yards it'll probably do just fine.
I'm well aware of of why they do what they do so well. They, were designed to do what they do in a 7x57. Many other 7mm must function at extreme differences in muzzle velocities. Much like the clearly over rated 270 where bullets are designed specifically for it. Keep it clean captdavid
Before we knew better, we used 170 gr cast hollow points from free wheel weights in the 06's. I do not recall any deer requiring a second shoot. Using military surplus 4895, our cost to shoot those were less than $.01 a piece. Very little meat damage. We aimed for the shoulder.
Hornady 180 RN, and 46.5 to 48 grains of 4895! Would work for your application. I've killed deer and elk with little meat damage using this load. My 30-06 shoots this bullet around one inch at a hundred yards! Good luck!
If all the round nose bullets were still around that Hornady use to make, ( and Speer) I'd be using them, over a spitzer.
I'm a round nose fan, and also Heavy for caliber high sectional density....
for 30 cal, in my MN days, I used the 220 grain RN factory ammo in my 06 every year for deer hunting... only problems I ever had was when I tried something else....
I've casually taken several deer at 300 plus yards with the 220 RN ( Federal factory loads) across swamps, when they hadn't noticed me on the other side... one I remember the exit wound was just a small hole, with 3 kernels of corn laying in the small bit of blood on the ground when I flipped it over...dime sized hole going in... gutting it tho, it looked like someone had stirred its lungs with a chain saw....
180 RNs also did the same but the 220s did it better.. its my 06 GoTo bullet for deer or anything bigger when I need the thump....
since I started handloading, when I got to Oregon I either load Sierra or Hornadys in 220 grain RN.. using 4064 at 2450 fps, or pump it up to 2650 running 4831SC..non reload manual powder charge...
its also the bullet I'll load with my 300 Win Mags, at a hair over 300 Weatherby velocities, running H 1000...in the 2900 fps range...
that sectional density allows them to be trucking right along out there, even if they are RNs, when the MV gets pumped up out of that 300 Win...
but then if I had them available for the 7 x 57 still, I'd be using the 175 RN in it as first choice for most situations...I've saved enough for elk hunting using 40 grains of 3031, which gives me more velocity than Hornady's manual says I should get...
and wish I had accumulated a couple thousand of the 154 RN before they ended that bullet's life...
all of those round noses, I've had them penetrate pretty darn deep considering their MV...
I remember Blue Dot testing in the 7 x 57, and had some 175 RN Hornady's testing over the chrony at 1800 fps MV.. with a large pine tree 100 yds away as a back stop... was surprised to find the 175s had pretty much all penetrated thru 18 inches of tree diameter.. which means it wasn't as an effective back stop as I had hoped... but the mountain side behind it did...
my GoTo bullet in the 8 x 57, is Speers old 170 grain SMP, which is pretty much a round nose...same there, high velocity or low velocity it penetrates far better than expected....
I keep the philosophy, that a big percentage of game is taken under 100 yds... and stretch that to 200 yds, the percentage numbers go much higher.. like 95% of most game..
and most of my game ever taken has been 200 yds or less...
I love ballistic tips, partitions etc.... but truth be known, my first love is Round Nose bullets... I think most hunters either don't like them or have completely forgotten about them, mainly because NEW and TRENDY drives the market in this country...
Everyone wants a 500 yd 'capable' load and bullet to take a deer, at usually less than 100 yds...forums like this have people brag about taking something at long yardage, but that is the exception rather than the rule... and I think there is something macho in that...which I don't need....
not to knock those that do it, and I know there are some guys on the campfire that can do it all day long, but they also have the specialized equipment to do so.. and also do a lot of practice all year long....
but for me, its the Round Nose... and heavy for caliber... and in 30 cal, be it 06 or 300 Mag.. the 220 RN is the first I reach for... the 180 is second.... the 150s I use if I am loading for kids, at 30/30 velocity...) which I have been known to use for myself when I'm in that kind of mood...
and for my 7 x 57s...they have seen a lot of the 175 and 154 RN down their barrels...
blame my love for them, probably more on nostalgia first and they just plan work in all circumstances I've needed them to as my second reason...
No arguments from me either, Seafire. I'm finding that a heavier, but slower, bullet is extremely effective inside the ranges that I shoot (almost always less than 150 yards, most often less that 60). As an aside, about the only source anymore for round nose bullets across a large caliber range is Hawk.
One bullet that I have found to be extremely accurate in my 7x57's is the Sierra 170 gr. Round nose bullet. I have no idea on how it would work on game for two reasons. I didn't have any when I acquired my current 7x57 rifles and Sierra discontinued them a long time ago. What gripes me even more is when I called to ask if they might do a run sometime down the road, the guy acted almost if I'd asked his mother to perform an illicit act. That's the bad news. The good news is I have been able to find some and all three 7x57s just love that bullet. Now if only I get to draw a deer tag this year. Paul B.
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What gripes me even more is when I called to ask if they might do a run sometime down the road, the guy acted almost if I'd asked his mother to perform an illicit act.