A ??? for Mule Deer or ???
Was at a Safe Driving class yesterday in Tyler Texas for a stupid spendy booboo in judgment about driving thru a well known Ticket Trap without being in Full Anti Ticket Alert Mode.

Sat next to a mid'70's gentleman, born and raised in Tyler that I struck up some small talk with during the breaks, playing "who do you know" from the old days when Tyler Oil Money was driving all sorts of Texas Oil Man fantastical stories...swimming pools filled with Evian and Perrier yadda yadda....and East Texas is/was filled with deep pocket guys who are famous for the After the Hunt Campfire bragging sessions about their latest and greatest shootin' iron's and other sundry tallest dog contests.

FWIW the older than me by 2 years guy had pictures of his father and uncles with Dad Joiner, HL Hunt and other Oil Patch celeb's from the 1930's era that brought in what is now known as the East Texas Pool, and was one of the 3 largest strike's in Texas history.

He knew all of the old gun dealer customers I had called on within a 100 miles of Tyler in the '70's & '80's as a Dallas Dist's Field Rep & Stoeger Rgl Rep from '76 thru '88...and in passing made the comment..."You do know that Bob Reynolds from Tyler is credited in some reloading manuals with "inventing" the 7mm Rmg?" ..and I went Huh???

I've called on Mashburn's in OKC, Champlin in Enid, Briley's, the guys in Seguin, the recently deceased longtime Remington Rgl Manager from Dallas & countless small full custom shops who used SAKO actions yadda yadda back in the day...but Bob Reynolds in Tyler and the 7RMg story is a new one to me.

Soooo who is actually credited with the creation of the 7mm round that became known and marketed as the 7mm RMg??
Ron

I always heard it was Les Bowman who necked the 338 Win down and when Walker visited his place in Wyoming he took it back to Remington.

I'm sure 100 others necked the 338 and a bunch of others before that time but that is the old story I heard.

Love the 7mm Rem Mag. It was my first choice as a young kid for my first BG rifle. Still would be a great choice if that's all I ever had.

Interesting read...

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2012/5/29/remingtons-big-seven/

32 20fan, thanks for that. It seems I read that somewhere a time ago. Bowman sure knew his 7mm rifles, as he had a great write-up about the 7x57 also. Made me go out and buy one, which now resides in Idaho.

Thanks for that.

Good reading.

+1... Real interesting, and it pretty much confirms what my memory was on that subject. That it was Bowman who came up with it and Walker who got the ball rolling with his fellow Remington folks. The 7mm Rem. Mag. is one of those cartridges that always impressed me. Always thought about getting one but so many other cartridges/rifles/handguns/hunts/etc. got in the way and I never got to it. As an impressionable teenager back in the '60's I can still recall the stories about that flat shooting, hard hitting, long range wonder called the "Big 7 Mag." and some of the guys who used to swear by it.

A very interesting read for sure.

This 7RMg history also explains that by the time I came along at Stoeger in Fall '82, the heavy US sales in 7Rmg's was supported by SAKO's new product intro's almost always being chambered in 7RMg, despite my 5 state territory based in Texas, where the #1 seller was in 270's & 7RMg's as #2, with '06's at #3.

OK thanks for the insight, as I just could not get my head around a local guy in Tyler Texas being responsible for this big an impact on the Shooting Industry.

FWIW it also explains why Ithaca could not compete with their LSA Tikka line that did not offer a 7RMg, and their Rocky Mtn rep came to work for us at the Dallas Distr.
Ron

Just read in the nosler 6 manual that John nosler shortened a belted magnum to fit 06 magazines and necked down to 7mm.

So now what lol

I guess it all depends on where your perspective is based ... LOLOLOL

Long time till Deer Season and too wet to go to the range...need knee boots to get back to the Loading Shack aka the Toy House in the back yard ....but at least it ain't SNOW & ICE since all my azaleas, dogwood & fruit trees and wisteria are in full bloom...
Ron

There is a two part chapter in Finn Aagaard's book "Hunting Rifles And Cartridges" on the 7mm Rem Mag, one part by Les Bowman discussing its origin and one part by Aagaard discussing its capabilities. Pages 134 thru 141.

Bowman claims that the genesis for the 7mm Rem Mag was a 275 H&H Mag that Jack O'Connor sent to him and a 7mm Wea Mag with a 1-10" ROT barrel that he had made up. At the time, the 7mm Wea Mag came with a 1-12" ROT and wouldn't handle heavier bullets. Bowman goes on to write that he got Winchester to send him some blank, no headstamp, 338 Win Mag cases and that he had Fred Huntington at RCBS build a rifle on a Remington 721 action for the 338 Win Mag case necked down to 7mm. Bowman had Huntington stamp the barrel "280 Rem Mag". At some point in time, probably 1957 and 1958, Bowman began discussing his new cartridge with Mike Walker and Wayne Leek at Remington. Both of them liked it and after some extensive field testing of the original Huntington built Remington 721 in 1959, they got Bowman to come East to Remington's HQ in Bridgeport, CT, to pitch the cartridge to the President of Remington, Tom Coleman, in 1960. I thought that this was interesting, Bowman wrote that Remington opted for a 1-9.25" ROT because Walker didn't want to go through the "too slow ROT thing" that he went through with the 244 again.

I don't know when Bowman wrote this article, but I assume that it was published somewhere else prior to being reprinted in Aagaard's 1990 book.

look up the 7mm Reynolds mag in P.O. Ackleys Handbook the Reynolds was considerably befor the Rem

Aha a new voice and source of info to chase ..this is gonna be fun...yet. Mebbe my old gentleman classmate was not pulling my leg afterall.

I just wish I'd thought of this subject long before the Remmy exec guy from Dallas had passed away couple weeks ago. His father had been a Remmy HQ exec too and last I heard his son followed his footsteps, so he was Green thru and thru for 3 generations.
Ron

The idea of a belted 7mm magnum of about the same length as the .30-06 is very old. Probably the very first was the .275 H&H, which dates from around 1912, though it used bullets of about .287 in diameter rather than .284. (Most American gunsmiths and firms that built .275 H&H rifles used .284 inch barrels to solve the bullet "problem.") It also had a more tapered case than the 7mm Remington Magnum but otherwise was a very similar case.

There were a bunch of wildcats and even commercial rounds that accomplished about the same thing before the 7mm Remington Magnum appeared, including the 7mm Weatherby Magnum and 7x61 Sharpe & Hart. The 7mm Remington Magnum is just the most successful commercial version, and no doubt came about as Les Bowman related.

So about 40 minutes after brass was invented they came up with 3006. The next day someone said they should put a belt on that bitch and make it 7mm lol

You are overlooking the .264 Win. mag. in this scenario. miles

I would like to thank whoever came up with the 7 Rem mag!!

I haven't looked at the Ackley handbooks in a while, but I think there is an article in one of them by Les Bowman regarding the cartridge and maybe its development.

What about the 7x61 S&H.

It fit in a standard length action.

Jack O'Connor very briefly wrote about having a 275 H&H built. Winchester/ Western made the ammo for a short while, I had two boxes years ago but collectors made me offers I couldn't refuse.

Doc

Interesting read that American Rifleman article... that Bowman's favorite load was a 160 at 3050 fps...

and such was not offered in Remington's initial factory loads! offering instead a 150 and a 175....

I would think there would have been some magic to advertising the rifle with Mr. Bowman's load and visions of its performance in Elk Heaven.

Elmer Keith invented it....and then somebody else stole the idea and got credit for it.

My favorite Elmer Kieth'ism is appropriate here.."Hell I was there...when that happened"
Ron

Page 402 in Ackleys Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders credits Bob Reynolds of Tyler, Texas with necking up .264WM to 7mm before Remington's commercial version

The day after the 264 became available, some unknown gunsmith necked it up to 7mm and chambered a rifle for it but he didn't get it to Remington. GD

If we really want to run minutiae around the block, the 7mm Remington Magnum was developed by necking .338 brass down, not .264's up. Same case dimensions but.... :-)

Right Remington just necked up the 264, about two years after the 264 came out!!!

Definitely the most popular magnum by sales of ammo and new rifles.

Not by the unknown 'smith it wasn't; he used .264 brass because he didn't know any better.;) GD