After the past few weeks of posts and opinions, I am having a change of heart and mind. I think we have been too backward and single-minded about big game hunting, the reason there seems to be a shrinking of the numbers of big game hunters over the past few decades.

The sports that have been growing, both in the shooting world and elsewhere, have allowed participants to use more of the toys we all seem to like. Off the top of my head, I can think of Sporting Clays and golf. Each of these allows us to buy and use the maximum number of toys.

In fact Sporting Clays is often called golf with a shotgun, and not just because of the different stations (holes) but because many shooters these days use a cart to carry around extra shotguns, ammo, and chokes for specific stations. This means more fun for all.

So I propose that we start doing this with big game hunting. We could invent some sort of cart (or for the younger, stouter among us) or backpack to carry several rifles, along with ammo finely crafted to different situations. There could be a 6.5x55 with various loads from 85 to 160 grains, for instance, for all manner of small varmints to medium game, a .300 magnum with different bullets for animals from 500-yard trophy mule deer to up-close elk and moose, a .416 with everything from light cast loads (for grouse, rabbits, etc., as everybody knows cast bullets kill better in larger diameters), along with an expanding bullet for charging grizzlies, and some solids for the really big stuff.

The marketing possibilities are endless, and would do wonders for bucking up the economy, especially in the shooting sports. Plus, we would be using each of our cart full of rifles and ammo within their design parameters. It would be the best of all possible worlds.

MD

MD,
You aren't serious?

Isn't that the way kings and princes did their 'hunting' adventures...and now european hunters and even american game ranch 'safari' hunters are trending?

What will happen to the ordinairy fellow with the Savage 99 or the old Remington or model 70 in .06 and his sons and grandsons in the Cascades when (IF) they ever read of such a new paradigm?
( little or nothing)..:)

Maybe they can only read the older hunting mags, stay off the internet..and be safe..:)


I doubt that some of us will be so easily converted to having gun carts and gunbearers and coaches for the hunt...:)

True hunting partners, friends, good campfire cooking with cast iron skillets and dutch ovens.... and an uncluttered experience...for some of us will continue to rule...

But if you were to write such a treatise-suggestion( tongue-in-cheek of course) it'd make a provacative article and I'm sure you'd get a bunch of mail..:) jim

Ok, but we may have to make that cart dual-axle.

Got to have room for all the loading equipment and paraphernalia that goes with that.

Then there are the .22's and shotguns needed (shotgun only zones) and there are the chokes, ammo, slings, scopes, and all the other attachments and junk (whoops) sorry, .....attachments for the firearms.

Wait a second..............................................................., would you be interested in partnership in a Slingshot and Spear Shop?

A PERFECT opportunity to re-introduce the B-29!

I like it, a quiver of rifles.

MD,

I trundled my stuff around Camp Perry back in the old days before they had wheels! This is definitely an improvement.

Perhaps Doug can get the folks at Lowe Pro to do another Rolling Trekker design -- with off-road wheels of course -- to carry the load.

I can just imagine hitting the stalk part of "spot and stalk" from the safari car, pulling the cart with the spare rifles and other paraphernalia. The safari staff will be most impressed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

(Actually I do know a guy who buys all the gear that arrives on the market, he would be wowed by this idea.)

jim

No doubt he must mean a big, fully equipped pickup truck as the "cart." The bed could be equipped with flip down, weather sealed doors, with secure racks for all manner of rifles, complete with holders for ammunition. In the center of the bed a hydraulic, revolving shooting tower could be mounted, complete with rest and sandbags. This would elevate the hunter above the surrounding terrain. I'm sure there would be a host of options available for anybody wanting to hunt this way. I'll stick to my old Model 70 and foot work. Most of us already have far more rifles than we need for each task, but "rifle loonyism" isn't about need.......it's about......well, every shooter will have a different answer for this. It's about satisfaction.

That's entirely too modest a proposal. The first person who used that title planned on much more consumption (pardon me) of resources. If we really wish to help the economy, we must stretch our assets and then dispose of them. I don't care for the idea of exploding firearms, but perhaps they could come pre-loaded from the factory - discard after use.

Further, your proposal has allowed for only three rifles. Perhaps we could limit bullets to one weight per caliber. That would require many, many more rifles to cover every niche.

The possibilities are indeed endless.

Jaywalker

Love it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You forgot that for each weight of bullet, this will require different component bullets with different expansion / toughness characteristics for each range and shot presentation...

Step one aquire a super size shopping cart from the piggly wiggley step two tires and wheels off lawn mower [ no the neighbors ] step three cabelas cataog for all the lastest brackets boxs and bullets step four scheels all sport for the missing guns, step five deeevoorrriccee, well it sounded go at first????? DARREN

Perhaps we should form an association and call it the Cart Hunting Association or CHA. We will need a leader and one that understands the design perameters.
I nominate Lee24 for President of the CHA........... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

MD,
I have always said that you cannot play golf with one club and nor can you hunt the world with one gun.


Unless is is a custom to the gills, Remsiskester chambered for thirtysomethingloudenboomer, but seriously, these cost a lot so the golf cart is more practical. I like practical.

AGW

I could probably shoot within 5 shots of my handicap with one club, the game would be no fun, but I bet I could do it.
That cart has already been invented, it's called an F150.

There are already events that people shoot at charging lions and cape buffalo pictures with their powerful doubles. Why not expand on that and have a running deer, elk, moose crossing in front of the shooter. Like they have in Sweden to qualify to hunt. Only this would be for prizes or cash. Then have the charging buffalo and lion or bear. Include a precision event for varmint hunting. Put Prairie Dog targets out at varying distances to 500 yards. Have the shooter stalk through brush and upon seeing his quarry (a life size pic or silhouette like for bow hunting) has to find a rest or shoot off-hand depending on the circumstances. All using different rifles and bullets to match the type of game presented

We gotta carry a cart of rifles now to be prepared for all situations?! I was still trying to figure out how I was going to remember which pocket each of my different loads for different ranges and impact velocities was in.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Make mine a Ram with the Turbo Diesel................... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Bring back the Gun Bearer and call him a "Hunting Caddy," complete with advice on which iron to use for the difficult shot...

Osama is a good name for a gun caddy, only catch is he has to walk in front.

AGW

I think we should abandon the golfcart idea. Not enough room for beer and the air conditioner unit.

Also, for certain game, a flamethrower would come in handy at the end of the day. Kill your animal and cook it at the same time. Of course, not with gasoline, but a flavored alcohol, possibly a rather dry red wine, fortified of course, with Golden Grain. Basting it in redwine and its own juices. Yummmm!

Assuming it's legal, of course, and it would be on those Game ranches where the game is considered property outside the rules. ("cattle, to use a medieval word for livestock, a term that included goats, sheep, pigs, and even cows, which were called "neat cattle" from which we get neatsfoot oil.)

But I stray afield. Imagaine what a trohpy a flame seared ear-tag would make for a keychain.

Man, you gunwriter types are always coming up with the neatest ideas!!

I's like to share a campfire and cold beer with you blokes!

AGW

This forum is the greatest. It's better than psychotherapy. And a lot cheaper. Why just today my wife succeded in making me feel guilty about all the hunting gear I've accumulated. Why I don't need less stuff,I need more. M.D. right again. what a guy. I need to sign off and get to the stuff store. With more stuff I know and M.D. has confirmed I'll finally be able to enjoy hunting again.

who says I don't do that already!

sheesh, I knew I was ahead of the curve.... now it's finally catching up.

and everyone thought I was silly for bringing 3 different guns to the deer blind...

now everyone will look to me cause I'll be in vogue!

LMAO! An instant classic right there my friend! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Since I am from TX, I would like a cart with a spinner feeder mounted so I can corn the road on the way to my tower blind.

-Lou

This really does happen, I've seen it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Blammer been doin this for a while. we do it hunting pig now. only the cart is called a Gator/Ranger or a 4wheeler(these tend to be ALOT louder than the gator.)

Quote

Osama is a good name for a gun caddy, only catch is he has to walk in front.

Osama season opened a couple years ago and the tags are FREE(unless you count the 6-8years of your life)

I always have a good supply of all terrain carts available for personal use. They will carry their own weight plus mine. They don't have rubber tires but instead use steel rims for rocky terrain. 1 hp. with a mind of their own but we see eye to eye on most things. A little dated but very stylish...

Mule Deer,
Please let us know what Dave Scovill's reaction to this concept is when you pitch it to him and submit your article for Rifle Magazine. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I've got to go check my Crown Royal... I think some of you have been into it.
Actually, I've been using the cart idea for a long time, and when I went from a regular cab to an extended cab it just got better. Only thing is, I've had to completely give up on ever hunting in Canada; it would just take too long to unload everything at customs.

Blammer,

Lee Van Cleef did it before you. I think the movie was "a few dollars more". He was after a bad guy that just caught a horse and was running down the street. Lee unraveled the multiple rifles on the side of his horse., decided which one and shot the horse from under the rider. Now that method had style.

A pretty good candidate is an old M37 "Power Wagon" with the front windshield down or removed, and some sort of padded rest with pockets sewn in it for rifles across the back of the hood. The name escapes me, but this is an actual product for sale...... might have been called a 'gun mattress.'

Did some roadhunting for feral hogs once on a ranch with this setup.... and yes, a corn feeder on the back. Sort of like the Orkin man with firearms.... we'd toss 3 or 4 rifles in the pockets of the gun mattress and cruise the ranch about once an hour, after dark.

It was still hot in mid-summer so you had to head back to the ranch house for a cold beverage once in a while. Sure thumped a bunch of pigs doing that......

Works good on an early Bronco, too, and some of the jeeps.... the Wranglers have a pretty low sitting postion and it doesn't work as well for that vehicle, unless you sit on a corn sack....

Ah, the memories..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

QuarterChoke--

Actually, if it do write it up for the magazine, it will be as a back page column. There I just write 'em up and send 'em in. Scovill never sees the column until he opens my package....

Will perhaps use a few of the worthy ideas you fellows have been so good to provide here, with attribution of course.

MD

I must ask, that if this happens, with CAS's permission please use the "quiver of rifles" quote. Again, instant classic!

Pat

Some such crusty, squinty-eyed old pieface thus armed, might show up, qualify for the two gun handicap and bust everyone else's britches, is what. Worse yet, he might fetch just the ought six and really piss people off.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Be sure and give Lee24 the credit he deserves.......... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

MD,

I appreciate the tongue-in-cheek humor of your post.

I must comment, however, on your mention of Sporting Clays.
I shoot a lot of sporting clays. A practice session usually involves at least 200 rounds of 12 ga. target loads. Try carrying that around on your back for two hours or so. A cart is not only a convenience, if you are trying to improve your game without stress and strain on your body carrying ammo, it is fairly important.

Many times, I will shoot a course with both a 12 ga. and 28 ga. shotgun. Again, carrying around this stuff requires some help.

You're a gun writer- you should hope that the proliferation of new products, regardless of how silly and needless they may be, will provide rich fodder for your craft for years to come.....

Creedmore sports has a range cart for convenient transport of rifles, and years ago I saw a modified golf cart with a couple varmint rifles in it at a prairie dog town in SD.
The golf cart wasn't a rider, just the little "hand truck" golfers use to drag their bags around. It had bigger wheels, rifle cases, an ammo box, and a ground pad for the shooter.
More modest than some of the ideas floated earlier, but it was reality.

MD..around here the cart of choice is the 4WD four-wheeler..I know they would be handy and even add some fun in some situations...However, I view this as another example of how lazy we Americans are getting...While I'm not dogging your thoughts, all one has to do to use all the rifles and toys we have is get out of the house, get out of the truck, and go hunt...Sorry if this sounds like a flame....but I despise walking a long distance, getting set up, ect., just to have some "hunter" come driving by on a four-wheeler looking for game while trespassing on private property......Sorry if I misunderstand your post.......

Mule Deer,

I think this is a grand idea! But why not go all the way....

When I grab my synthetic stocked, stainless bolt action rifle, topped with my LRF, illuminated reticle variable scope, I would surely want to don my latest and greatest Gortex-lined synthetic, scent-blocking, make me all but invisible-wonder parka; when I reach for my Savage 99 in .300 Savage, I would duff the parka and quickly pull on my red checkered Pendleton; and, of course, when I choose my favorite front-stuffer, out would come the buckskins.

The possibilities are endless. Truly some ad exec's wet-dream!!!

Chris

The humor is not lost on me....but what would happen when our intrepid nimrod loses said cart during air travel? Would it still be considered bad form to laugh at the new hog hunter with .7ultrashortfatmediumrebated40degreethumpermasher complete with 6x24 72mm scope and we're all toting .30/30s and .35 rems. and 12 bore slug guns?(my personal pick) sorry,no carts for this Redneck.

How about this hog erradication cart

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c278/marshmonkey/Dehogger_1.jpg

Mule Deer:

I see your idea mixed with mettalic silhouette shooting. Take the general idea of golf. 20 Stations per round. Each station having a slightly different challenge:

Par(5): Prarie Dogs at 500 yards.

Par(4): Deer stalk

etc.

In the course of a round, you might have a 5 second window in which to shoot a charging lion-shaped plate, or you might have a grouse-shaped target bust in front of you. At the "Tee" you would get a brief description of the scenario and the allowed firearms, and the scoring. A limit of 5 firearms would be enforced.

If you manage a perfect brainhot on the charging elephant with your 30-06, you get a better score than felling it with 2 from your 375 H&H. Knocking a grouse out of the sky with a .410 yields better scoring than the same shot with a 12 GA and so on.

MD,

Your idea may have been a bit tongue in cheek, but it may have some validity. Sporting Clays has grown like a wildfire and has made for some deadly shots in the field. In fact, many of the better Sporting Clays courses are much more challenging than any hunts I�ve been on. It has also done a lot of good for equipment. Most shotguns coming out these days have adjustable stocks, something that was almost unheard of before Sporting Clays.

Although IPSC has little in common with anything practical these days, it has done wonders for handguns. I have a permanent scar on the web of my right hand from shooting original style 1911�s. I now have a beavertail grip safety that protects my hand, and actually disengages when I pick the gun up. I have fully adjustable no-snag night sights and a thumb safety I can actually operate�All of this has come out of gaming.

Benchresting has done wonders for both Varminting and Tactical (sniper) rifles.

If we did create some sort of sport that closely emulated real big game hunting, who knows? We may just see better shooters and better equipment.

There used to be a sport called the Keneyathalon which required a competitor to walk a course and spot game. Once game was spotted, the shooter had to decide if they would take a shot or pass on the shot. Points were given for game spotted, points deducted for game not spotted. Points were given for hits and points deducted for misses when you decide to shoot. For each shot, a time was assigned that was appropriate to set up the shot.

I�ve never competed in Kenyathalon but it seems to me it died a premature death. I think it was poorly marketed (speculation on my part, I don�t know what really happened to it).

You could have spot and stalk (American Style) games. Moving game events like the Swedish Moose qualification and a Dangerous Game course like the Zimbabwe Rifa course.

Could be fun?

Mo..,

Oh,muhgawd!!! I'm in love. Screw the new Daytona I was looking at today. Where can I get one of those?!!

This goes along with what I've been suggesting for years: The KrautShoot.

This would be an event for only WWII allied firearms. Folks would get to shoot at silhouettes designed to portray:

The standing kraut
The kneeling kraut
The prone kraut
etc.

Heck, I'm half-German, and I'd love to go shoot Krauts. They're about the most shootable thing out there! Bigger than a prarie dog, more wiley than a coyote, and slimier than snot! -- at least that's what all those old B&W movies taught me growing up. Shooting a Garand isn't as much fun unless there's a grey uniform and a fritz helmet in front of it.

You'd also have to dress in a WWII uniform and perform various acts on the course like diving into a foxhole, crawling in a ditch, shooting from behind rubble, etc.

It would be kind of WWII mixed with CASS.

With all the CMP Garands, Springfields and Carbines out there, I think this would be a huge draw.

We could have other events too:

1) Fix up an old Norden bomb sight on the front of a pickup truck and "fly" it over a football field sized map of Cologne. You loose if your beanbag bomb hits the cathedral.
2) Hand grenade toss
3) Dunk-the-Hitler dunking booth
4) Find-your-buddy games in the dark with a cricket clicker-- only one guy is the German with the bolt gun. You have to figure out who's who.

An M113 (my mech infantry background...sorry). Tracks will go places wheels won't. You can float the beast so you won't have to get wet if a river crossing comes up. The hatch could be equipped with the latest high speed low drag (tactical) spotting scope. Already has gun racks and you can sleep in the thing. Lousy on fuel though and you really don't need the armor, but then again during public land deer season....

I shoot Sporting Clays and last year at the Nationals (think triple diget temps) and the ammo, and stuff required on a long 3-4 days shoot - a guy would sell his house for a cart. Carts have their place and no one requires a shooter to view it as a target sport -- there is still practical hunting in it.

As to the multiple rifles - I have seen guys carry their pistol to the stand - hoping for that close shot and if the shot doesn't present - no biggie.

So I propose that we start doing this with big game hunting. We could invent some sort of cart (or for the younger, stouter among us) or backpack to carry several rifles, along with ammo finely crafted to different situations. There could be a 6.5x55 with various loads from 85 to 160 grains, for instance, for all manner of small varmints to medium game, a .300 magnum with different bullets for animals from 500-yard trophy mule deer to up-close elk and moose, a .416 with everything from light cast loads (for grouse, rabbits, etc., as everybody knows cast bullets kill better in larger diameters), along with an expanding bullet for charging grizzlies, and some solids for the really big stuff.

MD [/quote]

Mule Deer,

This is one of the many reasons I enjoy African safaris so much. Trackers, porters, cooks, camp staff, all spoil you to some extent. Hunt with one rifle, and have the porter carry your other. I've softened up to the point where I'm not so sure I desire anymore Jeramiah Johnson worthy treks after Ovis Ammon and such in remote, desolate reaches of the globe.

My father as a keen observation on why hunters are dwindling in numbers, as well as the root of other societal ills.

"Americans have been off the farm too long. They forget where food comes from."

you've got to get water-navigational capability into the mix. why? can't be just rifles. waterfowl on the menu, too. and then there are quail and pheasants.
the f150 (or doge or chevy) is just a start. it's gotta have a long bed so a pimped out atv - and dog box - can be carried there. gotta have a hitch for the duckblind boat. all vehicles equipped with pipe-insulation padded pvc gunholders.
whew, this could get complicated.

I have been wondering for the last few years how I was going to carry my B29. Now I know. reflex264

You might laugh, but I actually have hunted with two rifles. I had a new rifle in a light caliber, with unproven (to me) ammunition which I really wanted to hunt with. On the other hand, I didn't want to run the risk of having to pass up a less-than-ideal shot on a monster animal. Due to the time constraints I was facing that season, I could think of no other alternative than to carry two rifles at once.

In case you are wondering how it turned out, the new rifle and ammunition performed without flaw, and have now achieved "trusted" status. I think of it as sort of an "apprenticeship" for this hunting rifle.

I think, (hah!! says my wife), that me and my Encore are already well suited for this type of hunting. It is not as fast as pocketing one rifle and grabbing another which in plains shooting would be the only way to go. However for mixed hunting over screwy terrain I think (maniacal laughter) that the extra minute it takes to drop the pin and change a barrel would be easily offset by the weight savings and portability. They seem to hold point of impact very well when interchanging on and off so I think (again laughter...hmmm) that I would have to go that route and take the bottle of Makers Mark as beer is to cumbersome in a backpack.
MCS

I think you're right on about a dwindling number of hunters. Your proposal is comical and intertesting to think about.

I've heard some marketing pitches by FN reps and I have to say I kind of agree with them. The companies making sporting guns are all bidding for a smaller and smaller market.

The growth markets will probably be hanguns and "black" guns. It's easier to collect handguns in terms of space required to store them. The "black" guns are serving a growing number of recreational shooters. That is, shooters who just plain enjoy shooting and could give a rip about hunting. Plinking with an FS2000 with a good optic at 200-300 yards is a whole lot of fun, believe me.

I really enjoy hunting and am an avid varmint hunter. But, I simply love to shoot for the sake of shooting. To see how good I can be and to gain familiarity with the ballistics of the gun I am using. And, to make gongs gong and rocks and dirt clods disappear.

TM

MD

After reading Berrits Buffulo in Rifle it would seem that your proposal isn't as comical as some think.