Anyone read Boddington's article in the most recent G&A on the new .370 Sako? Not an overly warm report and I think it was clear he too was asking: "WHY?"

What are your thoughts?

Read it, will be surprised if it goes anywhere,
Course it will be heavily promoted on any show that Barreta is involved with.
Boddington called it--A 35 whelen on steriods.

Would be nice if they'd brought it out back in the day, but competing against the old standards I'm not going to get my hopes up. Would prefer it to the Whelen, and 9.3x62, availability aside.

I think it is a great cartridge design.

This cartidge, known as the 9.3 X 66 in Europe, is only about one one hundredth of a inch smaller round than a 375 bullet. It produces close to the same velocities as a 375 H&H, when shooting bullets with similar sectional densities - with a kick that is closer to a heavily loaded 30-06 than a 375 magnum. The 250 grain bullet has a sectional density almost the same a 270 grain 375 bullet, while the heavier 286 grain bullet in this caliber has sectional density exactly the same as a 300 grain 375 caliber bullet - thus penetration will be similar.

Not only that - this cartridge allows 5 rounds in the magazine in addition to the one in the chamber. That's a lot of firepower - something that can really feel good for people who hunt bears without a guide.

Admittedly it's a proprietary round right now - as was the 375 Ruger, just a year or so ago. Personally I'd much rather own a Sako than a Ruger, but that's just a preference thing - both brands have a lot of fans, and both companies produce fine rifles.

I wanted one to be my "B.C. big-bear" round. But after reading about "Furprick" waiting for more than a year for his - I changed my mind and went with a 375 H&H (which the store had in stock) to suit the same purpose.

That doesn't mean that a part of me wouldn't have liked a more "unique" round, with a bit less kick, basically the same killing power - and the ability to have an extra round in the magazine.

If you hunt big bears - without a guide (like most British Columbians) or alone - every extra round available to you makes you feel just that much better.

I hope it succeeds - but, sadly, wouldn't bet on it - North Americans seem to prefer faster cartridges.

The HH could beat it handily if loaded to the same pressures, but the Sako sure looks nice. I might build one at some point, with the understanding that it would essentially be a wildcat here in the US.

Aside from the Sako rifle itself which is a very good rifle, my gutt instinct on the .370 Sako as a cartridge is this.

Too close in diameter to the 375`s to offer any more benefits.

The 370 Sako cartridge imo, will never see the growing popularity like the .375 Ruger has had since its inception. Sako (Beretta) I don`t believe, has the marketing savy or the influence on the shooting public like what Ruger/Hornady had and does in promoting worldwide of the .375 Ruger.

Even with their M/85 in the 21.5" barrel, to any potential 375 buyer, ballistically, the 370 Sako cartridge brings no advantage over any other 375. Where`s the advantage in this cartridge?

On the other hand, Hornady and Ruger designed the 375 Ruger to at the very least, offer an additional benefit in giving the shooter/hunter the same or slightly better ballistic performance as the longer tubed 375 H&H and do so from shorter rifles.... So now, here comes Sako trying to do the same thing by following Ruger`s lead and trying to do so with a brand new cartridge.

Imo, and since the .375 Ruger is not a proprietary cartridge, Sako should have just chambered their new Model 85 in the 375 Ruger, which is and will continue to be a far more popular round than the .370 Sako will ever be. As a result imo, they`d sell far more rifles in the .375 Ruger chambering. The public appeal and appeal from the gun writers, would be many times better, if Sako had put the .375 Ruger chambering in that 21.5" Model 85. Then, they`d have a real winner!!!!

Not a brilliant or smart idea from Sako.

I know nothing of this cartridge other than what I've read above, but it sounds to me like an equivalent to a 9.3x62 or maybe 9.3x64. Those have been around for many years, as someone else said, classics. I don't see a need for this one, but I don't have to. I'm glad these companies are developing new cartridges and developing new ideas. Sako obviously make fine rifles and this round may do well elsewhere in the world, but I don't see a big market for it here. Good to have choices though.

It has 200 fps on the 9.3x62, and the 9.3x64 has 100-150fps on it. I like the idea of the 9.3x66 because it fits in a 30-06 action and I can fit four or five rounds in it easily. That said, a better commercial offering would indeed be the Model 85 Kodiak in .375 Ruger--I would certainly buy one.

I think that some brainiac wizard at Sako or Beretta decided that this chambering would sell well given enough time. Like throwing the **** on the wall to see if it sticks without doing the necessary marketing homework! If you`re going to offer a new cartridge to the market, WITH THE IDEA OF SELLING IT, you`d better offer something new, exciting, distinctive and a product that will have a broad base appeal.

Ok! So you can put an extra round in the magazine and have 5 all-together including one in the chamber instead of 4!! Big whooopie doooo!!! The 375 Ruger is also a 30-06 length action, so there is no benefit to the 370 Sako in that dept.

Commercially for sales here in the US and in many parts of the world, with maybe the exception being in Europe, the 370 Sako will FLOP and BOMB out!

The 21.5" tubed M/85 rifle is wonderful and very appealing, but people have to buy the cartridge too. A cartridge that has no distinctive marketing appeal, along with no distinctive advantage vs its competition, even though chambered in a great rifle,,,,won`t fly!!! They did a great job with the rifle, but that`s only half the equation!

A cartridge a 1/4 of an inch shorter - only makes for a rifle 1/4 of an inch shorter. The rest is just barrel choice. If enough shooters wanted 20 inch barrel 375 H&H's - I'd think the market would provide it.

I can't get excited about a quarter of an inch - or 50 to 75 fps.

But, perhaps that's just me - I prefered the longer barrel and the much lighter weight of the Synthetic Model 85 (7lbs) to the heavier Kodiak model with it's shorter barrel, and I prefered an the extra round, the better trigger, the slicker action, the lighter weight, the clip feed, and the guaranteed accuracy of the Sako over anything Ruger makes.

But it's a better world for the added choices!

In a DGR rifle - if you NEED the extra shot - believe me - it WILL be a "big- whooopie doooo!!!"

Besides with the Sako 370 - you get TWO extra rounds compared with the 375 Ruger. Five rounds in the magazine of a DGR rifle - is quite different than three. That's what - 66% more fire-power?

Hmmmm...do I need 50 to 75 fps more - or would I like to extra two rounds - when alone in the woods with a big bear nearby. Hmmm...

..........Well! A .370 Sako chambered in the M/85 with say a 1/2" or 3/4" or even less with a consistent 3 shot group would appeal to me far less, than say my 375 Ruger Alaskan, which consistently averages 3 shot groups at 3/4" to 1 1/8" (outside to outside) or outer group dimension depending on the reload.

These are big game hunting rifles and cartridges here, not match shooting, paper punching target rifles. For any big game and at the distances they are hunted, ANY success or failure between them, won`t be determined by the respective differences in group sizes or by their names, Sako and Ruger. Instead and for these calibers, success or failure between a Ruger and a Sako, will be 100% determined by the guy pulling the trigger.

Grizzlies often are in groups - I'll always prefer extra rounds when hunting bear without a guide - one round extra is enough to matter to me - two rounds is - well, "case-closed".

......If you`re hunting dangerous bears alone or in an area where there are dangerous bears, that`s a concern......But I never go alone and I always have the backup!! That`s quite another thing. I have no need for a 5 or 6 shot chamber and magazine capacity.

I read a recent gun test where the Ruger was shooting 2/1/2 inch groups at 100 yards - and if that's what you buy - with Ruger - that's what you own.

Sako guarantees 5 shots into an inch.

Why?

They KNOW their rifles are put together in a manner that will enable them to deliver that kind of exceptional accuracy.

But - to each - his own.

That's the difference between us.

Never had a guide - never will.

........BUT!!!!That ain`t my rifle there pal!!!. .....My 1st 3 shot grouping with factory 375 Ruger Hornady ammo was,,,,,1 1/4" (outer dimension). Some of my reloads are more accurate.

Hey - you are a lucky man! Nothing like being happy with the rifle for which you parted with hard-earned dollars to get.

I won't buy from a company that won't guarantee their product anymore - after the experience I had with my Remington Ti. I love that rifle now - but it should never have left the factory the way it was.

Reputations are hard to build - easy to destroy.

I like to "stir-the pot" and you took it in the spirit it was intended - truth be known - the Ruger in 375 was a top contender for my dollar!

Has any one dealt with Sako on there accuracy? Honest question
my hunting buddy had a LH Sako 375 that shot 3" at best with all
ammo we tried. It was in the late 80,s when Sako chambered in LH
Sako said that accuracy was acceptable? Have not dealt with Sako and want to know if accuracy guaranty is a new policy?

IIRC the guarantee started with the M75. My L61R is a very accurate weapon, I regularly shoot birds in the head at 50 yards.

.........Each rifle is its own individual with or without an accuracy guarantee. The M77`s have improved quite a bit over recent years. They improve every year.

If a rifle shoots 2" groupings with factory ammo, the groups will in most cases, tighten up with reloads. I don`t look at what a rifle does with factory ammo, I look at what it does with the reloads. That`s where my accuracy concerns are. I`m not worried about a gun writers report of 2" to 2 1/2" groups coming from out of a M77 Ruger.

If after reloads are tried and accuracy remains piss poor, then I`ll have a beef. Until then; nope!

I like the 370 Sako Mag./9.3x66. I like it so much that I picked up a chamber reamer from PTG about a year ago as I was looking at building one in the future. (Still looking at doing one but, in the meantime, another project took priority.) When all is said and done though, I think it is a fairly redundant cartridge, especially when compared to the 9.3x62. In fact, the original developer of this case used a standard x62 reamer and simply ran it in an additional 4mm. I don't own any 9.3's yet which is why this is the cartridge I'm looking at to fill this slot in the battery.

At that point accuracy would have to improve by a factory of two times for me to be interested.

My experience has been tight-shooting rifles tighten up a bit with re-loads - just the same way loose-shooting rifles tighten up a bit with reloads.

I've never seen a crappy shooting factory gun - become a shooter - due to some re-loading technique.

I think that's why Sako makes the point of bragging about 5 shots into an inch - with factory ammo. Meaning a re-loader can even do better than that.

On another post dealing with CRF v. PF actions there was a lot of discussion about how Mauser actioned rifles are the best choice for close encounters with dangerous game. It is not simple to convert a mauser to any cartridge other than those for which the action was originally designed specifically those in the 7x57 thru 30-06 class. If you accept the proposition that mausers are the very best, then consider that a 370 or a 9.3x62 will easily and reliably run thru the standard 98 actions most commonly available and will hold 4 or 5 down.

For a long time I wanted a Sako Hunter in 9.3 x 62 for some odd reason, they will not even bring them into the States, so they come up with this 370 Sako, fine, great. We should be happy that they even bother at all. It took a few decades for the 338 Winnie to gain popularity it has today. I have no need of a 370 Sako, this is not to say that at some point I Would not give one a try. After all what is wrong with 286 gr bullet out of a barrel? and you can have five more besides!

I like the concept of the 370 Sako. It has some benefits that our current list of cartridges in this class do not offer, enough that there should be room for both types. I hope it is a success. I kind of like the idea of some offspring from this case too. Some of us like a bit more than can be obtained with a 30 06 class case without going the full blown mag route.

I wanted one to be my "B.C. big-bear" round. But after reading about "Furprick" waiting for more than a year for his - I changed my mind and went with a 375 H&H (which the store had in stock) to suit the same purpose

hey, Brian, they say I should have that Sako in 9.3x66, in a month or so, at least when Sako starts shipping to Canada again. they had some metal problems in their factory that slowed orders, from what I understand this is behind them now. The 9.3 is a special order so I hope I get it soon, alternatively I will take a 375 HH like you have. And , my other Sako 3006 does shoot <1" groups with the first handloads I tried. it has been termed a 35whelen on 'roids and thats just what I want. My 35whelen pushes a 250gr FXB to 2684 fps the 9.3 will run a 250 to 2750fps and a 286 to 2550fps, I like that and it will be in a quality rifle with guarenteed accuracy.

I think it's a big yawner.

If you handload, you can get 2500 from a 9.3x62 with 286 grain bullets. So the .370 is only 50 fps faster. Not much progress since the 9.3x62 has been around since 1905.

So they paid Boddington some $$$ to go shoot a buffalo. Yawn. The 9.3x62 has been considered an excellent buffalo cartridge for decades.

If you handload, you can get 2500 from a 9.3x62 with 286 grain bullets

Is that with a 22" bbl ?

Ask Mule Deer. He posted it.

I've read the piece by Boddington, and if I were looking for the holy grail in rifle cartridges it would not be a 9.3mm to start with. It doesn't make any sense, compared to American cartridges of the same ilk, as it fits into a too narrow slot in the 9.3mm's to begin with. But for the person who thinks they must have "the latest" or "all there is" to make them happy, hey, go for it!

But I must say that if the rifles I have now can't keep me happy, I honestly doubt that adding another would alter that mood! Just my experience and what I observe in others. Or, shouldn't we mature enough in our thinking to get over the rationalization that there's a real "need" for such a rifle and cartridge? In all honesty, we probably have too many already that are more than adequate for that supposed "need", that are languishing unused in our safe, with a layer of dust on them creating the impression that they are truly ugly rifles and a "new" 9.3mm SOMETHINGOROTHER would cheer us up!

But, of course, we must convince ourselves that what we want is going to satisfy, in the short term at least.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I get 2500 fps with 286's in a 23.6 barrel from a 9.3x62. The loads were pressure-tested and were right around 60,000 psi.

The .370 is basically a new round that's factory loaded to what we can handload the 9.3x62 to. The factories could load the 9.3x62 to the same basic level, but there would be the problem of 100-year-old rifles, just as there is with the 6.5x55, 7x57, etc.

The .370 is another in a recent spate of factory cartridges designed to appeal to real rifle loonies who obsess over such things--and who also tend to handload, so aren't going to use the factory ammo much anyway. This seems a little weird, but there you are. Or we are.

I like the power of a 250gr bullet at around 2650-2700 fps, the whelen i have will do this, although at or above max, but has proven itself over 15yrs of shooting moose , b-bear and the odd mule deer. Also, I like sako rifles, the 9.3x66 will easily do what my whelen does and then some with a better selection of bullets on the heavy end. So basically i am changing from a 35whelen to something a little better in a quality rifle. I know it will down big animals at the ranges they should be shot with little difficulty.

I'll keep my 9.3X62.

When it came out, we in Europe woundered, what Sako had in mind with it. After all,

9,3x62 - common in Germany
9,3x64 - steady following
9,3x74R - common in doubles or combination rifles
9,3x57 - moose mainstay in Scandinavia

there really is not that much ground left in the .366 bracket.
Having a 9,3x64, I am set it that one.

And so will I.

I was curious about what Craig Boddington had said in the G&A article that was referenced at the start of the 370 Sako thread, so looked it up. Far from being "hoh-hum" about the round, he really liked it! He even ordered one on a left hand action and stated he had come to see it as an excellent cartridge (paraphrased). His opinion can be found on the last page of the article.

Yes, the 9.3x62 can get 95% of the 370, and the 9.3x64 gets 105%; however, to claim that the new round is thus redundant makes about as much sense as claiming the 30-06 can get 95% of the 300 WSM and the 300 RUM gets 105% of it, so the WSM is redundant.

The 370 Sako kind of reminds me of the idea behind the 427 Shelby Cobra - adding extra horsepower to a preexisting small package.

Living in brown bear country, 6 in the gun beats 4, especially when the debate is mostly about .009" in diameter.

Hmmm, G33/40 action that needs a project, 22" barrel...

I had the chance to test the 9,3x66 when it hit the french market years ago. I was well surprised by the easy to control recoil, the power and accuracy of that cartridge . Even if it's easy to push the 9,3x62 to higher than factory velocity, (i've done it too) the 9,3x66 do that in factory loads. The standard Mauser case head is a plus compared to H&H or 9,3x64 cases head and the Sako rifle hold 5+1 cartridges.
Note: if the 9,3x64 is a bit faster on paper such velocity is from 65cm test barrel. Take notice also that the 9,3x64 is only loaded by RWS even if not a best seller they keep it loading. The 9,3x66 aka 370Sako can serve well hunters who don't want a magnum rifle, who want a bit more power and speed than the 9,3x62 and don't handload or have difficulties finding 9,3x64. Then as MD says there are enought rifles loonies to buy some. I thing it's closer to the 375H&H than to the 338Winch. Last year i used one Sako synthetic in such caliber to hunt mouflon (corsican ram) overkill for sure but fantastically effective with 250grs Powerhead (Barnes. Rifle is light enough yo be carried all day long and power is there and i agree with BCBrian.
I lived some years in Canada, knows a bit the BC and Yukon and north of Quebec where a resident can hunt alone if he get the right licence. Sometime 2 shots more can be a god thing.
If i had'nt two 9,3x62 in my safe i think i'll buy a 370/9,3x66, but thinking to re chamber my Steyr Pro-Hunter...

Sorry for bad english writing above...Here some pictures of a Sako 9,3x66/370Sako synthetic with mouflon ram and ewe shot with it. Optic is a Swaro 1,25-4x24 battue scope in Sako mounts. Third photo give an idea of the landscape where this hunting occured.

Nice mouflon! Too bad about the loins.

i finally got my 9.3x66/370Sako a month ago. Still testing loads but at this point it is easy to get a 250gr Accubond to 2700fps. same rifle as pictured above, weighs 7.25 lbs and is easy to handle with the 22" barrel. There are cheaper ways to go with similiar effectiveness. but i wanted a stainless good quality rifle that would be like a 35whelen on roids and thats what I have.