I have thought about buying an NEF .45-70 Buffalo classic and reaming it out to a .45-120. Any thoughts? I figure it would be the most budget friendly safari gun around. I think it has even been done already.
To go on an expensive and potentially dangerous safari with a cheap gun is simply a very VERY bad idea. A few will venture forth with a Ruger number 1, but a break open? Icccckkkkkkkk...
For the money that would be spent, a decent 375 or 416 or 458 bolt gun can often be had. If one cn afford a safari, one can certainly afford a decent rifle. This ain't one of 'em.
Might be a fun gun to play with, but it is not a safari rifle.
I'm certainly not an expert in this area, but I believe that the advantage of a .45-120 exists mainly when using black powder. The .45-70 has all the capacity you need for smokeless loads.
I have thought about buying an NEF .45-70 Buffalo classic and reaming it out to a .45-120. Any thoughts? I figure it would be the most budget friendly safari gun around. I think it has even been done already.
I had a Ruger #1 in .45-120 about 25 years ago. I was running loads of powder under 400-gr jacketed bullets -- Barnes, as I recall -- and getting 2400 fps or so. The Ruger handled it just fine -- but I am fairly certain that is not a load you want to run in an NEF. And, having been to Africa hunting, I can assure you that the cost of your rifle is one of the cheapest articles in your effort, almost no matter what you spend for it. Anad when you're out in the woods or the grassland in search for the sort of critter you would be looking for with a rifle shooting big bullets -- you do not want to be carrying a cheap single shot.
I have thought about buying an NEF .45-70 Buffalo classic and reaming it out to a .45-120. Any thoughts? I figure it would be the most budget friendly safari gun around. I think it has even been done already.
AWW hell! If that's what ya wanna do, GO For It!!
My son used a handi rifle[30-06] in the limpopo, in 2008. 7 1 shot kills! It's yer money, take what ya want to.
Well I never actually plan on going on a safari. It was just an idea that crossed my mind to make a rifle that would knock you over when you shoot it. Something fun to hand to a friend and say here shoot this.
If I were to one day go on a safari, I would probably want something more than a single shot. That being said though, I don't see the correlation between price and lethality. Does fancy wood make a gun more lethal? I sure hope the implication isn't that NEF rifles are unreliable.
I still have my first shotgun which is a NEF 12 ga. Pardner. It is built like a farm implement. I have left it laying in the field, ran it over, left it in the back of a parked pickup truck over the winter where it was frozen into a block of ice and it still shoots perfect and it was $69.00 new.
A 45-120 in a light rifle like an NEF?? A 45-110 with full charge of BP and a 540grain bullet rocks in a 14 lb rifle. A 120 would be fairly punishing with BP loads with those big bullets. It has the same case length as the Brit 450 Express. Load that up w/smokeless and a heavy ball and it'll knock ya loose from your moorings. Don't do it. A 45-110 has basically the same case as a 458 Lott. Figure this one out for yourself.
Man go for it 45-120what a calibre to have.Idon't know what the bid deal with a single shot i have a few of the H&Rs I don't feel under gun at all what ever you want its yours
My 45-70 Handi is much faster to reload than a Ruger #1-3, you don't have to take your right hand off the grip. That said I don't hunt any game with a single shot anymore to minimize chances of lost, wounded game.
I hunt with a Sharps Business Rifle in 45-110. It weighs 11 1/2 pounds, and with a 510 grain bullet and 110 grains of black powder, it kicks a lot harder than I like.
Having said that, it is an extremely effective rifle. I don't feel in the least handicapped with it being a single shot. Hit them in the right place on the first shot with the Sharps, and you don't have to worry about tracking them or losing them. If they are not DRT, they don't go very far, believe me.
I am fallible, lost a Blue Wildebeest that I felt I hit well with a 350gr Hornaday RN at 2000 fps. If I had my odd six he would have got 2 in him. Practicing a quick second shot with my 375 Ruger Hawkeye is fun too!
Funny you should say that about Blue Wildebeest. They are really tough. I knocked one down at 312 yards in 2007, and he looked as dead as a hammer. We watched him for 5 minutes and started to walk to him when he got up and hit the brush. He is the only animal I have had to follow any distance after being hit with the 511 grain paper patched bullet of the Sharps. He traveled a good 500 yards before we found him.
The reason we were able to find him was that the Sharps load gave complete pass through penetration, and he bled out both sides which gave the trackers more than enough to work with.
As an aside, I am amazed at the skill of the trackers in Africa. They are capable of some remarkable work. I watched them sort out the trail of a Gemsbok shot by a client with a 300 Win Mag that left little to no trail I could see.
I was advised to make a shoulder shot, 100 yds slightly quartering toward us. Shot felt good, he stumbled and swapped ends and went into the bush. We waited 2 minutes and went after him, first mistake, he rolled in dust to stop bleeding and we jumped him 100 yds in, with PH right in my way and gun muzzle 120 degrees off, missed him as he departed. Jumped him again 300 yds later and really did not have a shot, PH right in way again. Tracked him another 5 miles and lost track. The next day was mother's day and the last day of my hunt, the PH abandoned the chase, I was not too impressed, he was unarmed from the start. With a repeater and a high heart/lung shot the story might have been different. We found bright, stringy blood, looked like muscle blood. I think the bullet failed to penetrate the heavy shoulder/collar bone, probably over expanded. Just a guess, but I know these shed jackets easy. Next time with bonded core 300 gr 375s and a solid behind it the result might be better.
Well, JR, after your 1895 .458WM thread, where you started at 60K PSI, backed to 50K PSI fast, then finally retreated to sanity at 43500 PSI (might be reasons for that...), have at the .45-120 rechamber.
Just remember, in your own mind (you're the only one you have to convince) you're just ... that... much smarter than everyone else.
BTW - the "victim" role don't win many brownie points are here, save from those who resort to the same. That list, is short and notorious, though no doubt you'll fit in fine.
Fathom that sharpsguy and EvilTwin have far less than agreeable things to say about your DSMFer of an idea. And, they've a thing or three between them re: BPCR rounds and shooting.
I'll leave the questioned experience to them, as they've more than handily handed you your ass, though should you care to keep coming at me, I can do likewise.
My 45-70 Handi is much faster to reload than a Ruger #1-3, you don't have to take your right hand off the grip. That said I don't hunt any game with a single shot anymore to minimize chances of lost, wounded game.
But you do have to take the left hand off the rifle, unless you are left handed.........8-)
I was advised to make a shoulder shot, 100 yds slightly quartering toward us. Shot felt good, he stumbled and swapped ends and went into the bush. We waited 2 minutes and went after him, first mistake, he rolled in dust to stop bleeding and we jumped him 100 yds in, with PH right in my way and gun muzzle 120 degrees off, missed him as he departed. Jumped him again 300 yds later and really did not have a shot, PH right in way again. Tracked him another 5 miles and lost track. The next day was mother's day and the last day of my hunt, the PH abandoned the chase, I was not too impressed, he was unarmed from the start. With a repeater and a high heart/lung shot the story might have been different. We found bright, stringy blood, looked like muscle blood. I think the bullet failed to penetrate the heavy shoulder/collar bone, probably over expanded . Just a guess, but I know these shed jackets easy. Next time with bonded core 300 gr 375s and a solid behind it the result might be better.
Well, JR, after your 1895 .458WM thread, where you started at 60K PSI, backed to 50K PSI fast, then finally retreated to sanity at 43500 PSI (might be reasons for that...), have at the .45-120 rechamber.
Just remember, in your own mind (you're the only one you have to convince) you're just ... that... much smarter than everyone else.
But back to topic, why are you so passionately against a .45-120 Buffalo Classic? Is it just the recoil?
Well, JR, after your 1895 .458WM thread, where you started at 60K PSI, backed to 50K PSI fast, then finally retreated to sanity at 43500 PSI (might be reasons for that...), have at the .45-120 rechamber.
Just remember, in your own mind (you're the only one you have to convince) you're just ... that... much smarter than everyone else.
But back to topic, why are you so passionately against a .45-120 Buffalo Classic? Is it just the recoil?
Well,ya already done hit the tripwire, but as for the concept..not very good. There are MUCHO better platforms for a big cartidge like that. I should say that the conversion you have in mind would likely "come off the face" fairly quickly even if you used BP. Safety factor shot to hell there. It was a common malady with some old double rifles that was addressed by much more complex and much stronger locking. And yeah, the recoil IS a factor. If you ntend on making it a hunting rifle you still need to shoot it pretty extensively to deveolop loads and get GOOD with it. Flinching heavily never helped anybody's shooting. Don't be such a damned hardhead.
+1 on to each there own. My Handi is an ejector, right thumb the button, drop shell from between fingers of left hand , flip shut, right thumb hammer as left hand goes forward and fire. You do everything with right hand on #1? It seems awkward to me, but I'm pretty ambidextrous.
I'm certainly not an expert in this area, but I believe that the advantage of a .45-120 exists mainly when using black powder. The .45-70 has all the capacity you need for smokeless loads.
Now most of those that I know of that shoot a 45/90, 45-110 say that the 45/120 is to much of a problem with brass and that it just is a lot harder to tighten groups with at the range.
I almost purchased a 45/120 once upon a time and was advised to get the 45/110 as it was better at grouping shots on target. I can't complain much as it does a good job and I no longer can shoot like some of these youngsters can way out youndar way.
If I ever had a mind to go bigger than a 45/70, I could see the 45/90 but still and all I don't believe you can compare it to a Marlin 1895 45/70 for reloading purposes and power.
Probably very reliable....to fly part like a dollar watch.
I'd ask you for an example if I didn't think you'd make up a fictional story. I have found forums elsewhere on the web that discuss this conversion and it in fact has been done many times without a single failure.
Your shooting in the dark until you actually hook up pressure equipment to your firearm.The Marlin action is not one of the strongest leveractions out there.It is strong, but not near as strong as a Winchester '86 or even the Big Bore Winchesters.
If you do not exceed 40,000 CUP or 43,500PSI..Your on safe ground with Max loads but if you exceed those numbers by very much,the years of service of your rifle are greatly diminished..
Without actual pressure data I have never seen for your caliber with smokeless powder,you are in the dark.
I see you on several lever actions forum boasting of meaningless numbers that have never been pressure checked safe for the Marlin '95 action.
The point is that simply because something can be done.. does not necessarily make it wise to do so. Examples: Folks have been know to have killed Grizzly bears with nothing more than a .22lr.... Does that make it wise for me to do so?
Land Speed Racers routinely pilot their race cars to well over 300 M.P.H.,.... Does that mean its wise for me to attempt it also?
Ergo while some folks have converted N.E.F./H&R rifles to big [bleep] cartridges they were ever designed for. Granted the rifles will likely hold together and shoot. further considering weight and stock design of the N.E.F/H&R rifle, and that many who have actually fired a .45-120 on occasion find it to be more than uncomfortable in rifles with better designed stocks and weighing well over 10lbs.... Its begs the question.. Does that mean its wise to do so?
So if you are so boner-ed up to build yourself a .45-120 on what in likely is strong enough, yet still unsuitable choice. Well do it then, but don't be surpised when folks laugh at you....
JR, This was the link I was referring to in my post on the first page of this thread: http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/195100578/p/1 Tyler is the fellow in the video you posted.. Jeff Smith chambered a BC to a 45-120 and did load data work on it and posted it at AmmoGuide.com.. You have to be a subscriber (less then $20.00 annually) there to get the data.. Jeff posts at AR under the screen name 'jeffeosso'.. He is a gunsmith and has developed his own line of AR Big Bore Wildcats and knows what he is doing.. He may do the chamber job for you. His website: http://www.weaponsmith.com/ Good luck with your project and be sure to report back here when it is up and running..
-- and getting 2400 fps or so. The Ruger handled it just fine -- but I am fairly certain that is not a load you want to run in an NEF. And, having been to Africa hunting, I can assure you that the cost of your rifle is one of the cheapest articles in your effort, almost no matter what you spend for it. Anad when you're out in the woods or the grassland in search for the sort of critter you would be looking for with a rifle shooting big bullets -- you do not want to be carrying a cheap single shot. 