Howdy all,

For my upcoming birthday, one of my affluent gun-loving relatives offered to buy me a big bore in order that I might some day fulfill a long held dream of getting to Africa (not that likely in the immediate future) or Alaska (more likely) for a dangerous game hunt. I've decided on a 375 caliber, but need some help picking a gun.

For starters, he has insisted (and if I plan on going to Alaska I'd tend to agree) that the gun be stainless and synthetic. While I'd much prefer a blued barrel wooden rifle, I'm not going to say no to an essentially free rifle based on that. He's also insisted that it be controlled round feed, and again, I'm not about to disagree with that - I've always been fond of Mauser actions anyway. The price range that I'm working with is around $3000 for the gun, and whatever for the scope (I don't anticipate that I'll need a particularly pricey scope). I would prefer that, if possible, the rifle have express sights.

The problem is, I'm just not sure what a good choice is in this price range. I'd be happy with either .375 Ruger or H&H, so the Ruger M77 Alaskan seems like the most obvious choice, but I'd really like a longer barrel, a Pachmayer decelerator (or equivalent), and folding-leaf express sights. I was looking at H-S Precision rifles as well, and they seem to be of outstanding quality, but I don't know that much about them (are they controlled round feed?).

Anyway, any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for the help!

Have you checked the CZ550 line of rifles?
Butch

Yeah, and while I like the way they handle and look, to my knowledge they don't make them in stainless. (If I'm wrong please correct me - a stainless 550 would be exactly what I'm looking for)

If CRF and SS/Syn is your preference, then your options for off the shelf that come to mind:

Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan in .375 Ruger

Winchester M70 SS Classic

Kimber Talkeetna

Buy a Ruger 375 Alaskan and you'll be good to go.

Or, better yet, buy a stainless 338 Winchester Magnum. No need for the 375 on bears; indeed, depending on how much you intend to shoot in preparation for your trip, you might be better off with a 30-06.

Do you have any experience with hard kicking rifles?

No, CZ does not offer a 550 in SS.

Once upon a time CZ did have some SS rifles available. The barreled actions were MRC 1999. Very rough actions, and I don't believe they were ever available in .375 H&H

My CZ550 in 458 Lott is smooth. I think I would buy one and have it ENickel coated and forget about stainless.
Butch

I vote for the 375 ruger alaskan. It has a 20" barrel. I know you said you wanted a longer barrel, but there is not much velocity lost with the 20" and its handy as hell. Mine is extremely accurate and iwth a zeiss conquest, an awesome package. I also have a 458 lott in a cz and they are wonderful rifles. They do not make them in synthetic though. The ruger seems to be the one for you.

Correction on the cz, they dont make them in stainless.

I vote for a 375 H&H in a CZ 550 with kevlar stock. They are a bit heavy which I like in this caliber and hold one extra round over others. In terms of finish, no CZ doesn't have stainless models but with your mentioned budget you would have more than enough to purchase the rifle and send it off to get a fantanstic finish much better than stainless steel IMHO. Also, CZ rifles plain work and like a wide variety of reloading recipes and in my experience are not at all finicky. Good luck and have fun with it.

Are they making the M70 375H&H stainless again? If so, work one over and add good sights. The CZ is a monster for a 375 and is better suited for a larger cartridge IMO. The Big Ruger Magnum is even more of a lead bulldozer for such a cartridge. I built a semi-custom copy of the 416s Phil Shoemakers built using a M70 416 Remington that shares the same barrel contour as the 375 H&H making the rifle lighter and handier than the 375 version. I'd not trade it for the world. The stock fits me perfectly and recoil is extremely manageable. Recoil on a 375 is even less and is no big deal. There is no need for a rifle built around a 375 to handle like a truck axle.

You could also just pick up a 375 or 416 Ruger and save the rest of your money for trigger time and hunting. I put a 375 Ruger in a light synthetic stock and it's not too bad. It's no equal to my Shoemaker 416, but it is a heck of a good rifle in its own right.

Good Luck!

Considering the $3000 budget, go custom. Go with a stainless M70 (.375 Ruger unless you find a long magnum doner) or stainless MRC action (.375 H or Ruger). Have a smith chamber and install a stainless barrel of your choosing for contour and length and have sights installed. Put it in a McMillan. You'll still have $ left over for a scope and mounts of your choice.

You have very generous relatives!

GaryVA - It looks like Winchester is only making the 375 H&H in the Safari Express in wood and blue. It would be interesting if they chambered it in their Extreme Weather. The largest diameter in that is 338 Win.

Ruger Alaskan. Phil Shoemaker recommends them.

Goo enough for me.

BMT

Stainless Model 70. Put new sights on, a Williams extractor, Tally rings and bases, a McMillan Safari stock, Sunny Hill bottom metal and a Schmidt 1.5-6x42 flashdot.

The Ruger can't compare.

For reference, I've hunted hard with Ruger, CZ and Winchester rifles. If I need a .590 case head I will get a CZ. For .532 I will get a Winchester. I am done with Ruger.

I agree with Ryan Scott.

1. Winchester Model 70 set up to your liking.
2. CZ with some kind of coating on the metal. I owned two 375 CZ's and there are too big for that cartridge IMO.
3. I too, am done with Rugers.

I have used all three in various calibers.

If you have a can of gun oil and a rag kept in a ziplock bag forget about the stainless steel.
You should be able to find an old Browning Safari Grade that will feel much better than anything made recently! JMHO
whelennut

Go with a Winchester safari custom classic in 375 H&H, you can have a synthetic stock made for and you can get ammo anywhere in the world

...................A $3000.00 budget will simply buy you a fancier rifle with the same capabilities as one that is much less expensive.

As a 375 Ruger Alaskan (matte, but available in stainless) owner, I will vouch that this is possibly the best buy for the buck in a 375 caliber.

In the performance category, don`t under-estimate the Ruger Alaskan`s 20" barrel. Depending on the rifle, right on par with a 24" and 25" tubed 375 H&H. A handier, easier carrying, faster and more manuverable, 4" to 6" shorter rifle with the same ballistics.

From the box, extremely accurate and with my more accurate reloads, moas and a little less. They are an extremely durable go anywhere in the world and in any weather rifle. It`s not a pretty rifle, but instead is a no-nonsense, functional rifle, that can do anything that any $3000 custom 375 rifle can do. It is a rifle that you won`t need to baby in the field either.

If the bulkier Hogue stock is not to your liking (designed for larger hands), then it can always be swapped out.

Save your money and use the difference towards other things.

A lighter and more compact 1.5-5x20 VX111 sits atop my Alaskan!

My thoughts would be Kimber Talkeetna, Ruger Alaskan and or my fav and it doesn't fit his CRF mould but would be the 700 XCR, cut the barrel to 23", add Talley's and a 6x36 Leo with LR dotz. Shoot the dog beans out of it for all that moves!

Then go forth and fill up an ark or three...


Dober

Another vote for Winchester..They have had there moments but they are the first and last word in serious rifles or shotguns,for that matter.Plus,there perty!!

Jayco

I, personally, want to give the Kimber Talkeetna a shot. I have a couple M70 SS (factory stocks/sights, yet to be replaced), a Whitworth, a 375 Ruger African, and a 375 Ruger Alaskan semi-custom (Lilja 23.5" SS/Bansner stock/ Rifle Basix trigger/ etc/etc). If the Kimber Talkeetna would have been available at the time, the 375 Rugers (had another SS with 22.5 Lilja & McMillan built for my son at same time)likely would not have been built.

Several years ago I had AHR build me one of their DGR .375 H&H based on the CZ550. Beautiful rifle and balances well.... but it's still a pig IMHO (over 10 1/2lbs fully loaded).

I picked up a Ruger Alaskan last year. Dumped the Hogue and dropped it in a McMillan and added a Swaro SR 1.25-4x24mm with the illum. reticle. Just tips an ounce or so over 9lbs fully loaded. Balances and shoulders nicely. Recoil while stiff, is quite manageable.

I previously contemplated a Kimber Talkeetna. I'd personally chop the barrel back to 20 - 21", coat it and rock on. I've heard mixed reviews, so would personally want to fondle one for a bit before buying. If it feels and shoulders like Kimbers current 8400 Long Actions.... I'd pass.

There are plenty other great options in that price range, but I went with a Weatherby Dangerous Game Rifle in .375 Wby topped with a Bushnell 6500 Elite 1.25-8x30 and Near Mfg. rings. I think I came out in total to about $3,100. Though I did get the rifle used but unshot for about a $500 discount.

Taking it to Alaska for brown bear, black bear, and wolf on Sept. 5.

Ditto. For a stock I'd get an Echols Legend standard fill,but that's just me

Forget Alaska. The only thing you'd need a .375 for there would be a brown bear. On a cost per animal basis, it's cheaper to go to Africa and get an elephant, buffalo, hippo, and some plains game than a good brown bear hunt in Alaska.

In Africa you can take a shower every night, eat sitting at a table with silverware, have your laundry done daily, and never ever worry about rain or cold weather. And forget those miserable hip boots.

So get yourself a .375 (Holland and Holland) in Model 70 with a wood stock and go to Africa. You can buy ammo anywhere if you lose yours and the cartridge won't be obsolete in 20 years.

Forget the CZ550 and the Ruger MkII. Those firms save money by making "one part fits all" so their rifles are too heavy for the smaller .375 bores. And forget the .338. It's illegal to use it on dangerous game in Africa.

Kimber Talkeetna, 1.75-6 VX-III, I'd shorten the barrel to 22" but that is just me.

The Ruger Alaskan in 375 Ruger is the obvious choice. Since you have a lot of extra cash to spend to customize it I would spend it on a good synthetic stock - a lot of great choices as long as they don't make the finished rifle lighter than factory- a reliable scope can add another $500-1500 depending on what you choose, and you should have a few $s left from that $3000 with a complete rifle that is as reliable, handy, powerful, and weather proof as they come. BTW, CRF to boot, 3 in the mag and 1 in the chamber.

Having chased around AK several times after brown bear, the handiness of the Ruger is welcome in tough terrain and the short barrel and cartridge pack a definitive punch. I don't think you need extra inches of barrel to close the deal on a bear.

Now, if you still have some $ to spend, think of re-boring the little Alaskan to 404 Ruger and then you'll have the ultimate DG rifle, and it would only add about $300 to your bill. There, we burned up that $3K right quick!

It will also work in Africa, when you get there. If it's a 404, even elephant isn't out of it's power range.

Here's the deal for you. Stainless, CRF, McMillian, Ziess scope, ready to go...

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2711043/m/3391062531

What a deal! SPF though.....

A Ruger 375 Alaskan would be a good choice. I have a CZ550 which I like very much and which shoots 3 shot groups at 100 shooting Hornady 270gr with all shots touching. The only thing that would be the tie breaker for me as to which rifle to choose would be ammo
Is 375 Ruger available everywhere? As for the wood stock withstanding the Alaska wet, I would not worry about it. Take the rifle down in the evening, dry it out, and retorque your action screws to 55inch lbs or so and you should be good to go. The CZ550 is the working weapon of choice for lots and lots of PAes in Africa.

I want a 375HH and I have my sights set on an Interarms Whitworth Mauser.

If the Echols Legend was made to fit a drop box magazine it would be far and away my first choice. It is undoubtedly the finest synthetic stock I have ever handled. Anyone else notice the checkering is significantly better on that one than McMillans other stocks?

Ryan,

I believe the Echols Legend was originally designed by D'Arcy to accomodate his slightly wider mag box which allows him to get a 4+1 geometry in where the regular M70 factory box is 3+1. someone on AR mentioned it was merely a matter of millimeters. Frankly, I'm surprised no other gunmaker has done something similar.

Indeed it was, but that magazine box is unavilable to us.

I can say I really agree with all the different suggestions mentioned above and you would do well with whichever choice you make. I do want to suggest that you do not cut corners with the scope. You mention express sights which can be very effective when practiced with. You are talking about a hard hitting rifle to be used in tough locations under harsh conditions. You do not want a scope that goes south when the temperatures drop to below freezing or when temps go into triple digits.


"I want a 375HH and I have my sights set on an Interarms Whitworth Mauser."
My personal choice and used one in Africa for Cape Buffalo and Eland and Koodoo and Black Wildebeest.
Frank

Oh hell, just to be different. Get a Ruger No. 1H, tropical. Beautiful wood! Put a leupold VX3 1.5-6 power on board. Buy the dies, bullets, powder, brass, etc. You can do all the above for under $3,000, then get him to give up the rest of the money for trophy fees....!


maddog

Ryan; yes and it isn't cheap when you can get it....but it costs a lot of money and time to make,too.

A buddy just had his pre 64 M70 375H&H dropped into a Legend standard fill....sweet!

For $3K plus whatever for a scope I'd recommend a whole kit:
a 416 Ruger Alaskan
a 375 H&H Ruger safari or Winchester model 70
3 Zeiss Coquests in 1.8-5.5 and/or 3x9
a Pelican 1720 case

The short barrel 416 would be good for anything you run into up close in the thick and the 375 H&H you can get ammo for anywhere.
Loosing your ammo or busting a scope is more likely than having a gun rust up to the point where it won't work.

I think I would go Weatherby if picking a new rifle.
Second choice would be a Howa in 375 Ruger.
whelennut

I recently got a Sako Kodiak in 375H&H, put a leupold VX3 2.5 to 8 scope in extra low optiloc rings. Very happy with it, accurate, handy, knocks lighter game down with authority. The front sight is a bit large and the recoil pad is a bit thin, but off the shelf I could not be happier. Even the cheaper ammo shot well, so premium stuff is only for the projectile.

Smart man.....

My first 375H&H was a Whitworth Mauser that I wish I had never sold! The Remington 700 Classic in 375 ( if you can find one) is also a very well handling and trim gun, if you can live with the push feed.Currently shoot a Winchestor Custom Model 70 with a fairly trim contour barrel, fold down express style sight, and Leupold quick detach bases with a Bushnell Scopechief 1.5 X 5 on it. Nice rifle, but recoil is extreme compared to the two prior rifles I mentioned.

No one has mentioned my personal favorite rifle - so I'll write a bit about it. I am in love with my 375 H&H Sako Model 85 Synthetic Stainless rifle. It's without a doubt - the finest factory rifle I have ever owned.

Why do I love it so?

First - it's about THREE POUNDS lighter than many other brand's 375's. A light rifle makes packing it all day long, or up and down high mountains, as good as it can possibly be. It only weighs 7lbs (yes SEVEN!) pounds naked. Compare that to other brand's 375 H&H's!

Secondly - it's action is smoother than any other rifle I own - blindfolded, I think I'd be hard-pressed to tell if. when playing with the bolt, I'd just chambered an actual round, or had just cycled an empty bolt. It's that smooth! It also feeds flawlessly right or left side up, right or upside down, barrel up or barrel skyward, and every other possible angle with it's perfectly designed controlled-round feed.

Thirdly - it's trigger is as smooth, light, and creep free as any factory trigger I have shot. It's a delight to shoot small groups with this rifle. Not only is this rifle capable of very small groups for a big-bore, but to me, it's comforting to know that the Sako company stands behind each of their rifles sold - guaranteeing five shots into an inch at 100 meters - not something many other brands (if any) will offer on their own factory-built 375 caliber rifles.

Fourth - it has a detachable magazine box that is the best design I have ever come across. Without looking, I can drop the magazine out in seconds with one hand - and yet, there is no way that it can drop out accidentally. Also, this rifle holds FOUR rounds in the magazine (not the usual - three) - and still has it fit flush to the bottom of the rifle. I like the extra round in any rifle - in a DGR rifle - I appreciate it even more! When hunting alone in grizzly country - I can even have an extra four rounds in a spare magazine sitting in my pocket. Ready to snap in at a moment's notice. It it's a confidence-inspiring feature, at least to my way of thinking.

Fifth, it has a synthetic stock with rubberized inserts, providing great grip.

Sixth, the synthetic stock has a patented recoil attenuation design that actually works! The stock design, in combination with the recoil pad design really does smooth out the recoil to an amazing degree - it also deflects the rifle down and away from one's cheek - making this lightweight big-bore fun to shoot. I have 30-06's and 7mm Magnums that are far more unpleasant to shoot.

Seventh - it's stainless. Long hunts in wet places won't make their mark on this rifle.

I could go on and on. Actually, I guess I have.

The Sako Model 85 is - without a doubt - the finest factory rifle I have ever owned - or shot - in my life - and I've been at this for more than 40 years now.

Here's some pics of my rifle and Sako's web-site. Do yourself a favour and give this big-bore some real consideration. If you buy one like it, I'm sure you'll be more than satisfied with your purchase. Mine cost about $1700 and was worth every penny.

Here's a close-up view of the butt and the cleverly designed recoil pad.


This shot shows the detachable magazine.


Another view.


Probably will never need all this power - but when alone in Northern BC, with lots of bears around, it just makes me FEEL better! Note the very soft squeezable and grippable rubber inserts in the harder synthetic stock. Ingenious.


Finally a picture of my very first group shot with this rifle. It was shot in a gravel pit behind my house - after taking the brand-new rifle out of the box after driving home with it. I got so excited at the accuracy (and unexpectedly pleasant recoil from such a light-weight 375) that I pulled my fourth shot - and called it. I shot two more rounds to get the five touching bullet holes. This group was shot with the cheapest factory ammo I could buy - and with no tuning or prep whatsoever. To say I was pleased with what I had just purchased - would be an total understatement.


Next week, I'm heading into the Northern Rockies of B.C. for a hunt with this rifle - I hope it collects a moose, sheep or big bear for me while I'm up there. If I get a shot - and miss - with this rifle - I'll have no one to blame but myself. So far, the only thing living things that I've shot with this rifle was the heads off of enough grouse to make a good dinner one evening. All of the deer that I had in it's sights last year, were allowed to continue growing for another year.

Here's Sako's own spec sheet.

http://www.sako.fi/pdf/specs/85SyntheticSS.pdf

.................Very nice rifle!!!........If Sako ever decides to cut the barrel down from slightly over 24" down to 20" and then chamber that same rifle in the 375 Ruger, then I`ll be MORE than happy to sell my (8 lb naked) 375 Ruger Alaskan and pick me up a sweet, new and very handy Sako Model 85!!!!

I'm not particularly attached to CRF vs not CRF. I've had some push feeds that fed and ejected better than some CRFs. And of course, some that did not. Depends on the individual rifle. No matter what you pick, test it a lot before you bet your nut sack on it working.

My most reliable feeding rifle these days began life as a 700 XCR in .375 which got rebarreled to .338. Since the only problem with it as a .375 was an egg shaped chamber which affected resizing fired cases, not function during shooting, if I wanted a .375 H&H I'd buy the XCR II and give it a shot.

Otherwise, I'd get the Ruger Alaskan in .375 Ruger.

Tom

I can�t say that CRF doesn�t have a slight edge if the manufacture and design of it is flawless, but I�ve talked to a lot of experienced hunters who think that the CRFs, since the designs are more complex, are more likely to have manufacturing issues that cause failures than with a good push feed. Overall a CRF may be better, but I have fired more than 10,000 rounds collectively through my 1980s Ruger M77 30-06; 1980s Remington 700 BDL .300 Win Mag; 1990s Mk V Accumark .340 Wby; and newer Wby Mk V DGR .375 Wby. These have been fired at the bench; target shooting in the mountains; hunting in good weather; hunting in rain/mud; hunting in sub-zero temps; hunting in the mountains; hunting on farms; etc � With all of those thousands of push bolt rounds fired (only high-grade factory ammo�I don�t reload or buy cheap ammo), I honestly never once have had a single FTF. Every single time, for more than 10,000 times, I have pulled the trigger, those push feed bolt guns went boom. Every time. In countless positions and configurations. The day that I have a single double-feed or any FTF on my bolt guns for any possible reason, I will start to worry about getting a CRF. But I know of almost no gun that will fire more than 10,000 times without a single problem.

Basically, I agree with this guy:

Super T there is a Whitworth Mauser on Guns International, with scope. Looks real nice

I would check around, taking my own good time and buy a good used custom rifle by a well know maker for $3000. It can be done very easily..I know that I can find them for that.

With such a generous budget, you can weather proof any blued/wood rifle. Have the metal parts covered in a black weatherproof finish, like cerakote/gun-kote. Then have the rifle bedded in a nice synthetic stock of your choice and, presto, you have a quality all-weather 375 H&H. The nice thing about going this route is you can always put the rifle back in the wood stock for that classic look when hunting in Africa.

As to what rifle to go with. I have a CZ550 and really like it. A rifle based on the Zastava action (Whitworth, Mark-X, Charles Daly, Remington 798) would also be nice choice as would the new M70 safari express.

I am a control feed fan of the last order, I would not hunt danerous game without one unless I had no other choice...I doubt that one could make one of my Mausers jam but they have been tweeked and tested and been shot a lot..A new Mauser that has not been tweeked and polished out and tested can jam easily enough...

BUT all the tweeking and polishing in the world cannot prevent a double feed in a not control feed rifle as that is operater error on a faulted design, and you actually have a round fall out of the action with a non control feed action and I have seen this on more than a few ocassions, again a operator error with a faulted design..

As far as non dangerous game their is little if any risk, but you might lose a fine trophy..

The choice is yours to live with, and I chose the control feed long ago and am firm in my belief, but only speaking for myself.

I know I am late to this discussion.. but if I had 3K

I would go with..

A Hawkeye African for the 23" barrel and add..

A trigger job or a Timney

A MKII classic from McMillan (Keeping the factory wood as well)

Send the rifle to someone who works with CRF's and have it checked for function and then smoothed out.

Buy a set of Warne QR's for it.

After all was good for function I would have it Cerakoted.

Probably just put a 4x leupold on it and spend the rest on brass and bullets.

A MK X Alaskan tuned up is a great choice, also, and they are about 1/3 less money.

Of those mentioned, I'd vote for the M70 first, Kimber second.

Sako action, Kreiger barrel, McMillan stock, coated by ROBAR with NP3 and called perfection.

Watch out for the CRF experts. They will be out in droves now.

JW

CRF? Ah, Ha Ha Ha ha!

I think that whole CRF thing is a failed philosophy based on screwing up the first shot, and being to get another screwed up shot into action quickly......

I've got a CZ in 500 Jeffery and am very happy with it, but if I was buying a 375 H&H, I'd get the new Win M70. Neither a 338 or 375 is a hard kicking rifle in my book, but then again my brain has probably softened up after 300 or 400 rounds through the 500 Jeff.

Regards,

Chuck

i vote for a 375 ultramag in a rem 700

Imagine that! ..... A push feed, pushing a belted case.

Yikes. I think I'd rather just stay home altogether rather than having to carry a gun and worse yet, run the risk of a hangnail.

I must be missing out on something..I had to carry my own .375 in Africa, AND I dang near got a hang nail from a leopard...
And oh yeah...I got to take one shower per week..in cold water...

Am I doing it wrong???

Ingwe

No showers is the key to experiencing Africa like the Africans.....