I have a thread going on elsewhere about a Sako i've discovered. It's a LH Sako AV Finnbear. Chambered in 375 H&H. Barrel has been lopped to 20"...which I think is great.

I've pined over the Ruger African in .375 since it came out. It's available in a Lefty configuration.

But there is just not going to be the pool of users of either in the LH category. But I don't think it really matters? So any right hand hunters with experience with either, please chime in.

Guessing most would say this is a No-Brainer, go for the Sako in 375H&H. But I wanted to ask anyway for opinions on what I may be missing? The Sako is $1000, and the Rugers are going for about $800. And I am broke, so $200 makes a difference, but in the long run.....

Also, I already have a wonderfully accurate LH custom 375 Remington Ultra Mag in a McMillan with a nice, sightless, Pac Nor at 25". So this would definately be a niche gun. I just love that 20" tube on this used Sako.

Thoughts?

Sako..No contest.

Dink

I own a 375 ruger alaskan. Very accurate. I like the gun alot. Trigger is good and the gun will shoot around an inch at 100. I bought it because I could not find one in 375 h&h. Very interested to know more about the sako.

For the money, reliability, durability and accuracy it is hard to beat the Ruger.

Dude! Just buy the Sako. You know you wanna!

R.

A thousand dollars seems way over priced for an AV. Does having the bolt on the wrong side make it that much more expensive? You can find a lot of Sako AV rifles with a price tag of $1000, but the ones that sell are typically in the $600-$700 range.

I'd be to wondering why the tube was lopped and if it still shoots decent.

Leftys are very rare, hence the price. If it was lopped proper, it will shoot just fine. If lopped poorly, its just a touch up in the lathe.

R.

61R Round Top with Conetrols $350, New factory 20" 375 HH Tube $150, McMillan Hunter from their specials $285 topped with a VX-III 2.5-8 X 36.

The left hand action might tear up more bills only if buying in LNIB condition (collector), I would think.

Here's my Sako AIII 375 H&H 20�, close to a AV, great shooter.
Can't go wrong with the Sako



[

Nice gun! I think you stole my barrel....I might have stolen the rest of it.

You load any more FailSafes?

Think a Ruger would shoot better than that cobbled up Sako? (grins)

No 235 TSX today, had to put something with the action, scope and stock

The 20" tube is factory

Someone found some nice new 20" Sako barrels one time. One marked Finnbear, two others not.

Oddest ones were the 264 and 7mm Mag..

Not from what I've seen so far

Exactly....

Buy whichever you like. The $200 difference will soon be forgotten. P.S. SAKO's are better than Ruger IHMO...

...........Sako has its fans and Ruger has its fans. Between the Ruger round and the H&H, no difference on game. So it boils down to which rifle you prefer.

I have a 375 Ruger Alaskan myself and love it. Very accurate, handy, fast, very manuverable, and is as durable as any rifle out there. Maybe not quite as refined in certain minor areas as the Sako, but she`ll do anything a Sako will and for less money. Not that it matters, a 375 Ruger from its 20" barrel equals and can exceed longer 24" tubed H&H ballistics. So a 20" barreled 375 Ruger, will outperform a 20" to 21" barreled 375 H&H.

Here`s a little something to read on the 375 Ruger African, which aside from its longer barrel and the wood stock, will also apply to the Alaskan.

http://gunblast.com/Ruger-Hawkeye375.htm

I didn't see any Alaskans chiming in but there are reasons besides price that Rugers are the number one choice of guides in this state, like ruggedness, reliability, durability and accuracy. Sakos are great rifles but even if they were or are "more accurate" the things you need a .375 for don't require benchrest accuracy.

Here are a couple of 375 Rugers that were used on this big boar. One an African and the other an Alaskan.

The plus is it being the earlier Sako which was not a leggo set action

But I would probably pick the Ruger because i hate the Sako scope mount system. Even Sako know the tapered dovetails trouble and bullshit which is why their mount based have a recoil stop.

If paper ballistics are important to you then the bigger case capacity of the 375 Ruger will mean you can get full H&H ballistics from a 20" barrel.

I have a Sako AV 375, nice rifle very accurate - does have a shilen 23 inch barrel. Ring mounts will be expensive but other than that a great gun. It would be my choice over a Ruger but I do not care for the Ruger stock.

When you add the price of Sako scope mounts the Ruger starts to make more sense.

I've owned two Ruger Africans, two Alaskans, and one Sako Safari grade 375. I felt that ...if the [bleep] hit the fan...I was better off with the Ruger Alaskans. I hate their stocks, but they are tough, CRF, a lot less money, and reliable...and come with mounts.

The Sako Safari was a beautiful rifle, and I hated to part with it.

Phil speaketh the truth, especially the reliability part. I own a 375R African and an AV Deluxe in 375H&H, right handed.
Bought the AV NIB in '85. Shot the snot out of it working up loads, off hand practice, even used it on PA ground hogs. Took it to Botswana in '90 and killed several metric tons of critters with it.

Came home and 2 months later at the range, the action locked up like a vault. Unbeknownst to me there's a tiny leaf spring under the bolt guide rib that has a tendency to go belly up. I'm just lucky it chose to die when it didn't matter.

Replaced the spring and everything's fine, so far. But every time I look at that rifle I wonder when it's going to break next.

Would I ever sell that Sako? Hell no, too much sentimental value.
But next time I go to Africa, the Ruger African will be along.

My $.02.

Pete

Had the same event occur at the range with my AV Sako .375HH. Earlier Sakos don't have the guide rib retained by a tiny flat spring. Guide ribs use to be drilled and pinned. Next time the Sako goes to the gunsmith, that will be something I'll have him do.

Phil, what stock are you using on that 375 Alaskan?

Thanks:)

Can you expound on this? How is it done?

I have vague memories of a Handloader article by Wootters about this very subject but can't find it.

Pete

Gremlins lurk.......given the serious work for which a 375 is intended, I'd take the Ruger every time.

Ruger, not even close.

jorge: +1

Have you owned many Sako's jorge?

Sako offers that five shots into an inch guarantee - because - they can! Ruger doesn't - cause they can't.

I think comparing a Sako to a Ruger - is like comparing a BMW to a Ford.

I owned ONE, a very expensive and inaccurate Sako Safari in 375. The accuracy guarantee is something you paper punchers love and besides the two Rugers I own, a 416 Rigby and a 338, are both half MOA shooters. The Ruger is specifically designed for African DG hunting, down to the finish, bomb-proof V sight and of course CRF which the Sako is not. Like I said, not even close. jorge

Oh my. I had a 375 Sako Finnbear and the bolt locked up shooting factory ammo. The barrel had to be remove to allow the bolt to be opened and repairs mad

Personla I like the CZ the best and yes both my CZ and Ruger are in 416 Rigby

The best way I can describe the pinned guide rib may not be very helpful unless you have access to Frank de Haas's 'Bolt Action Rifles' (revised ed)or another exploded diagram. On page 207 there is an exploded view of the L-46 Vixen Sako action. A study of the picture shows a retaining pin (#25-56), that fits in a pin hole in the guide rib, just behind the narrow part of the slot that that the guide rib collar (#24-55)fits into. The pin is put in place after the guide rib is assembled on the bolt and positively prevents the guide rib from sliding forward.

Pinning was a far more secure assembly method but Sako went to the clover leaf spring retainer. It was just plain folly, especially for the Safari class rifles.

For the gunsmith, or even a moderately talented bubba, the job is simply to drill a pin hole vertically through the guide rib and install a pin. 10 minutes of a gunsmith's time if that. For the AV action, where the bolt has two guide rib bolt collars, 15 minutes. However, I imagine that pinning only one bolt collar would be sufficient.

Alternatively, it may be (im)possible to hunt down a NOS guide rib that was made to be pinned.

Humorous to hear that point being made by a Wby slut.

Yes I am an unabashed Weatherby slut and have no issues with PFs (unless it's a Remington of course) but all my dedicated DG rifles are CRF(my preference) and oh yeah on double.

How many quality heavy duty pickups has BMW ever made?

Back to rifles ,now..

Who's the major gunmaker that produced bolt action rifles that BLEW UP in the last ten years due to material and quality flaws?

It sure was not RUGER... I think they were from Finland.

The 5 shots in 1 inch Sako thing is pretty much marketing horsemanure. Lots of Sakos around that barely do that for 3 shots out of the box, let alone 5. Besides, such a "guarantee" is WORTHLESS if not backed by the weasels at Beretta -USA..

If ANYONE who buys a Ruger at half the cost of a Sako m85 cannot find out a way to take a fraction of their $500+++ savings and get the barrel floated and action bedded on their Ruger, they are simply too stupid to own a rifle.

In 30+ years of owning BOTH Rugers and Sakos I have NEVER seen a Ruger m77(of any vintage)that properly bedded and fed good ammo would not meet or exceed Sako's little "guarantee".

You tell 'em! Just look at the group this $600 Ruger 30-06 shot straight out the box. Hundred Yard 10-shot string with no cool down between shots. Bone stock and the darn rifle weighs only 6-pounds to boot!!

Wait a minute, my bad, that's a $600 Sako, not a Ruger............disregard.

You need to be sure and save that image for posterity. Since rare events should be cherished..

That group above is about like tonight's Lunar Eclipse- not the norm.

If every Sako a7 actually shot that well out of the box, they would not have had to close 'em out at under $600 last year.

Hell Gary, I've seen Ruger MK Varmints that would shoot under 3/10" at 100 with factory ammo. It does not make them the rule.

The fact still remains that bedded the same and fed good ammo, over a pretty large sample I have never seen a Ruger that could not hang with any Sako.

I'm glad your pleased with your bolt actioned "Glock"- Sako A7, but I'll trade having to do a bedding job on a walnut and steel Ruger, in exchange for Sako a7 that is mostly made of cheap plastic. Nothing like paying $80 for a Sako a7 magazine that is made no better than one from a Ruger 10/22.

Also, not very impressed that the Finns cannot even engineer a synthetic stock that does not tear out at the front sling swivel when used with a bipod.

I am a big Ruger fan:) The majority of the production rifles I'ved ever owned were Rugers.

Just pointing out that the little Sako is crazy accurate out the box. I've got two and both back up that guarantee twice over with room to spare. Not to say a Ruger has bad accuracy, just saying the Sako really does have the juice to back up the marketing "horsemanure" claim. They are outright phenominal in that department. But, we all know there is more to a sound hunting rifle than bench accuracy alone.

p.s., I'm also familiar with the story behind that bipod:)

Best:)

Well like I said, never seen any real proof all the Sakos shot like yours. Not the $600 A7s and not a $1,500 m85.Also, guarantees have to be backed by the importer and Beretta's track record sucks in that regard.

The only Sako out of eight so far that I've owned that lived up to the billing was an early 1990s Varmint A1 in 17 rem.

It would shoot about 3/10" day in and day out with Remington yellow box 25g HP loads. Every other Sako I had shot no better than a Ruger with a half hour free float, skim bedding job. I wish that were not so, because I spent a lot of coin on Sakos during that time and always liked their metalwork..

How many A 7s do you own? I recall seeing you post about a .243 and a 30-06? Actually, if I was to try out a Sako product again, a stainless A7 would be the way I would go.

With a medium to large bore dangerous game rifle my main priority is not the group size it will punch on paper at the range under controlled conditions.

Many times I hunt in nasty conditions, and in a dangerous game rifle I want a stainless steel action/barrel, synthetic stock, complete dependability and CRF. Doesn't matter to me if the rifle will only shoot 1.25" groups off a bench rest as I don't plan on using it for long range 'varmint hunting'..

I current own a very nice, accurate Win M70 Stainless Classic 375 H&H, but I am also considering purchasing one of the Ruger 375 Alaskans. I just feel that the Alaskan would be just as weather resistant and dependable as my M70, and I think the shorter overall length is a positive feature. (And no, I don't want to butcher my M70 375 by cutting down the barrel, etc..)

I'm a long time M70 fan, but from the reviews and information I've read the CRF 20" stainless Ruger Alaskan sounds like an ideal dangerous game rifle for use in extreme conditions.

I've also found new 375 Alaskan's priced in the $775 range which is a heck of a deal, especially when you consider that you don't have to spend an additional $100+ for a secure scope mounting system.

But anyway that's just my opinion, and opinions vary..

These bigger dong competitions always sure are funny...

There are presently 12 Sako's in my safe. I've never had any issues with them; of course I am not picking fights with bears, but I'd imagine quite a few European hunters do and some go to Africa with them (only with neophtes, I suppose).

Yes, I like the Rugers as well and own them too. I have fixed one that puked the mag latch and dumped its rounds after some hard use (in Iowa of all places). It won't stop me from buying Rugers in the future.

I suppose the greatest animal fighting arm needs serious consideration as to the size and accumen of its safety when SHTF; it might become a guide rib spring...or it could be it's just fine.

Was it possible that the Sako you speak of was an old Sako? One prior to their new line? I don't believe they used to have enough faith in their manufacturing process to offer any accuracy guarantees - but they do now. Why? Because of their total confidence in how they are building them - now.

I guess you are unfamiliar with the newest model they make - the Sako 85. My 375 H&H is a controlled-round-feed.

It's also the finest built factory rifle I have ever owned.

First, it's not two pounds over-weight - it is 7 lbs naked. It's the weight a 375 H&H should be.

Second, it easily meets it's accuracy guarantee - even with cheap ammo. With hand loads the groups shrink further.

Third, it has a clip system - ideal for dangerous game - like the real danger that comes, when you hunt without having a guide backing you up. When you, and you alone, have to deal with trouble you get yourself into. Within seconds I can drop an empty clip, and then I can quickly put another clip with another 4 rounds in my rifle - with one hand.

Fourth, it's trigger is flawless, smooth, crisp and so predictable.

Fifth, being that it IS a CRF rifle - contrary to what you stated, mine feeds upside down, downside-up, left-side up, right-side up, always feeds so slickly, it makes you wonder if it has actually chambered a round. It might be the smoothest and slickest factory-built CRF action ever made.

I have no doubt Ruger makes good rifles too.

But in comparison to the Sako 85, they are overweight and they aren't confident enough in their own manufacuring process to offer any accuracy guarantees. That - in itself - is way more important, and way more telling, than needing sub-moa accuracy in a DGR.

Of course we don't NEED sub-moa DGR's. What we really need in a DGR - is that they are built impeccably.

It's the company's confidence in it's own tolerances and their quality that matters. Only companies with total confidence in the quality of their products can ever afford to offer such guarantees - even if that extreme amount of accuracy is unneeded. Still, the presence of such a guarantee - speaks volumes about the company. The lack of one - says even more about those other companies. If they could guarantee their product - they would.

The Sako 85 isn't a rifle you buy - before you visit your local gunsmith, to have it worked on. It's a rifle guaranteed to be good, right out of the box. That means a lot - at least, it does, to a lot of other folks.

A clip system on a DGR? LOL! That right there is enougn for me (and probably 100% of the PHs out there) not to buy one. If the SAKO makes you happy, fine, but as a DG I'll take the Ruger.

I don't think the clip-system in a Sako 85 - is like any other you have ever seen.

Again, things are perhaps different - in multi-rifle situations, like those that always occur on guided hunts in Africa.

When you are hunt alone, a clip, like the one in the Model 85, is a good thing.

I'll agree to disagree with you, on the quality built into the newest Sakos.

Regards,

It also appears that the M85 does away with the guide rib so there is none to FUBAR a reload while being charged.

Sorta fits the latest 24CF member war chant; "Best in the world...the whole world."

I think SAKOs are great rifles, don't get me wrong, but for this specific application and using the "whole rifle" concept, the Ruger, at least in my limited African experience is the hands down winner. jorge

Your African experience - however limited in your eyes - absolutely trumps mine - as I have zero experience there.

Over there, I'll concede you just might be right.

Why would the Sako 85 detachable magazine be a deficit? It's near battlefield proof with its latch system to eliminate any dumping of the mag from error or recoil. The design makes for a very effective magazine change. And in addition it is double stacked like a military mag so you can charge from the top. I just cannot see any situation where it would cause a fumble as the design is well thought out for use under difficult field conditions.

Thanks. In my 3rd edition DeHaas it's on page 383, but there's also a diagram of the L61 showing one pin located at the front collar.

Now to find a smith.

Pete

Jorge i agree with most things you say but what is wrong with a clip in a DGR? I have a Ruger Alaskan 20" barreled 375 Ruger in the mail to me right now and one thing i thought would be nice if it had a clip. Like military guns a quick reload is very good to have in a fight. Dan

gunbug: I really don't have an air-tight reason for you other than my gut feeling of having to fumble with the latch to open the receiver and also, I measure DGRs by what the PHs use and I can't think of a single one I know that uses a detachable magazine. Just a preference I guess. jorge

Hi: Before this the only clip rifles i have used are military and a couple of .22s but my wife got a clip rifle for xmas last year and i really like it.The Ruger Alaskan i have coming will not be wearing a scope so it will be much quicker to load.Hop eyou and yours have a great xmas. Dan

You too and go kill something big up there with it! Man I envy you guys that live up there!

Thanks JWP, you said it better I ever could have!!!!

Language does matter.

Pete

jesse, if you get the sako, I hope it is a good one, mine was not. I also have a grip of ring screws that are actually high quality. if you need a set lemme know...you can have em'.

I know I know but everyone here calls it a clip and i got tired of correcting them so i switched