New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62

Posted by: GaryVA

New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/21/11 04:00 AM

Anyone see the New 2011 Sako Black Bear 9.3x62?

- short fluted barrel, barrel band swivel mount, Recknagel sights, synthetic stock, weighs 7-pounds, holds 6-rounds. Looks like a good all-rounder for about anything/anywhere.




Posted by: Spotshooter

Re: New Sako 85 "Brown Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/21/11 04:02 AM

Tell me you can't buy it state side.

I just got my semi-custom back from the smith. It'll still be more accurate than a production gun anyway.

Spot
Posted by: AFTERUM

Re: New Sako 85 "Brown Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/21/11 04:14 AM

I like dat..........
Posted by: Sako

Re: New Sako 85 "Brown Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/21/11 11:48 AM

I have been looking at the same gun.... also a twin in 338 fed would not hurt... I just am afraid will will be high $$$.... but I hope not.
Posted by: BCBrian

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/21/11 12:41 PM

I sure love my 7 lb Sako 85 in 375 H&H!

Best factory rifle I've ever owned.
Posted by: old_willys

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/21/11 01:14 PM

Originally Posted By: BCBrian
I sure love my 7 lb Sako 85 in 375 H&H!

Best factory rifle I've ever owned.


BCBrian

What is the barrel lengtht?
Posted by: Kentucky_Windage

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/21/11 01:21 PM

I was just at SHOT, and I can tell you it's not on their list of U.S. products for 2011.
Posted by: BCBrian

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/21/11 01:23 PM

25 inches
Posted by: spence1875

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/21/11 02:05 PM

I want one!! Looks sweet and I love the 9.3x62 Spence
Posted by: Spotshooter

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/21/11 03:04 PM

the 9.3x62 doesn't really kick with a 250 full load, so it's a good cartridge in my book.
Posted by: Spotshooter

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/21/11 03:05 PM


If it holds 6 rounds it weigths 8 lbs, then add a scope = 9 lbs.
Posted by: 7 STW

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/21/11 03:35 PM

different
Posted by: fishdog

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/21/11 05:16 PM

I really like that. Hopefully they will end up bringing a few into the US
Posted by: spence1875

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/21/11 06:14 PM

Here is the spec sheet.

http://www.sako.fi/pdf/specs/85BlackBear.pdf

I emailed Alex at Europtics to see if he plans on trying to get any in, I will let you guys know what he says. He is a full line Sako dealer. Spence
Posted by: idahoguy101

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/21/11 10:34 PM

Go to SAKO 85 web site:

http://www.sako.fi/sako85.php
Posted by: Kentucky_Windage

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/22/11 12:36 AM

Interesting that it's on the web site. It (and the Brown Bear) are not in their 2011 US catalogue at all. Makes me think it either wasn't ready in time when they printed the catalogue, which you would hope to be the case, or it won't be offered stateside. Will be interesting to find out.
Posted by: Spotshooter

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/22/11 02:13 AM

Beretta sucks when it comes to logic and importing.
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/22/11 04:42 AM

It sure sounds like a product destined for the U.S. market at some point. I'd be jazzin for that Black Bear if it does come stateside smile
Posted by: Spotshooter

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/22/11 04:46 AM

If that happen I'll be pissed, but that's exactly what normally happens, make a semi custom because they're not importing and sure enough...

Bastid's
Posted by: EZEARL

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/22/11 05:38 AM

NICE!! Should be able to keep the weight at maybe a bit over 8.25lbs IF the rifle itself goes 7lbs.

6-cartridges w/270gr bullets @ just under 1/2lb
Leupold 2.5x20 (mine w/weaver rings @ 10oz)
sling and swivels (I made one @ 2 1/2oz)


Too bad I've already got 9.3x62.
Posted by: spence1875

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/22/11 09:04 AM

Got this from Alex. No luck with the black bear coming to th US. Beretta sucks.




Hi Spence,
 
Nice to hear from you but sorry to tell you that this gun can not be had in the US.  Beretta does not import it and does not make special orders on non imported guns.

Alex Roy
www.eurooptic.com
439 Crawford Alley
Montoursville, PA 17754 
+1 570 220 3159          
Posted by: WiFowler

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/22/11 09:40 AM

Got a relative that's in the service in Europe? Have them buy one thru the Rod & Gun club and bring it into the US on an ATF Form 6 when they rotate back stateside. From there transfer it according to your local, state and/or federal laws.
Posted by: Kentucky_Windage

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/22/11 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By: spence1875
Got this from Alex. No luck with the black bear coming to th US. Beretta sucks.




Hi Spence,
 
Nice to hear from you but sorry to tell you that this gun can not be had in the US.  Beretta does not import it and does not make special orders on non imported guns.

Alex Roy
www.eurooptic.com
439 Crawford Alley
Montoursville, PA 17754 
+1 570 220 3159          


Not surprised. I was doubtful since it wasn't in the new catalogue. Although... the logic of naming rifles "black bear" and "brown bear" and skipping the North American market entirely... escapes me.
Posted by: Spotshooter

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/22/11 06:48 PM

Ok the value of my semi-customer 9.3x62 sako 85 is gonna hold for a bit longer.

Keep in mind the 9.3x62 Sako 85 has been available for ever outside the us anyway.
Posted by: BCBrian

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/22/11 07:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Spotshooter
Ok the value of my semi-customer 9.3x62 sako 85 is gonna hold for a bit longer.

Keep in mind the 9.3x62 Sako 85 has been available for ever outside the us anyway.





But - not with the short barrel, the barrel sights, the fluting, the safari band, etc.
Posted by: Spotshooter

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/22/11 07:21 PM

Correct BC

but mine's got a Lilja barrel that makes cloverleafs.

and it's in a McMillan edge Sako hunter pattern, with a 23" barrel. Balances like a dream, weights 8lbs with a scope and doesn't kick hardly with 250 TSX.

I couldn't be happier - I'm not changing a thing.

So your right - I don't want all that other junk.
Posted by: AussieGunWriter

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/23/11 06:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Kentucky_Windage
Originally Posted By: spence1875
Got this from Alex. No luck with the black bear coming to th US. Beretta sucks.




Hi Spence,
 
Nice to hear from you but sorry to tell you that this gun can not be had in the US.  Beretta does not import it and does not make special orders on non imported guns.

Alex Roy
www.eurooptic.com
439 Crawford Alley
Montoursville, PA 17754 
+1 570 220 3159          


Not surprised. I was doubtful since it wasn't in the new catalogue. Although... the logic of naming rifles "black bear" and "brown bear" and skipping the North American market entirely... escapes me.


If you ever go to college and study "Marketing" you will learn that there is a particular type of person you cannot identify with.

JW
Posted by: Kentucky_Windage

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/24/11 12:40 AM

Originally Posted By: AussieGunWriter
Originally Posted By: Kentucky_Windage
Originally Posted By: spence1875
Got this from Alex. No luck with the black bear coming to th US. Beretta sucks.




Hi Spence,
 
Nice to hear from you but sorry to tell you that this gun can not be had in the US.  Beretta does not import it and does not make special orders on non imported guns.

Alex Roy
www.eurooptic.com
439 Crawford Alley
Montoursville, PA 17754 
+1 570 220 3159          


Not surprised. I was doubtful since it wasn't in the new catalogue. Although... the logic of naming rifles "black bear" and "brown bear" and skipping the North American market entirely... escapes me.


If you ever go to college and study "Marketing" you will learn that there is a particular type of person you cannot identify with.

JW


One of those types would be people who make unwise assumptions about individuals they do not know. If you ever become an adult and study "manners" you might grasp the concept.
Posted by: spence1875

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/24/11 07:05 AM

Thanks Kentucky I was not even going to respond. I guess I am an idiot with bad manners, my wife would agree with that. I must have wasted Uncle Sam's money getting my Nuclear and Mechanical Engineering degrees. Spence
Posted by: Kentucky_Windage

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/24/11 11:56 AM

Spence - Thanks. I deleted my last response because I misread the sequence. Responded initially because Aussie's juvenile comment was posted in response to my post. His remark is a contender for one of the all-time dumbest things posted here.

Re. Carter, he remains a great embarrassment to all of us old ex-squids. And I'll forgive your former service in Marine Infantry. No one is perfect. wink
Posted by: ruger375

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/24/11 06:35 PM

pretty sure you ll can import one from Canada.
Posted by: spence1875

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/25/11 06:12 AM

Anyone know abourt how much it costs to import a gun from Canada?? Thanks SPence
Posted by: greentimber

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/25/11 10:05 PM

I handled a 9.3x66 version of this rifle at the pre-SHOT range day. Actually, I tried to buy it from the guy in charge of Sako's vendor shoot operation on the spot when we were tearing down for the day. He said it was the only one like it and he couldn't sell it to me, but the gun would be imported before the end of 2011.

We'll see...
Posted by: greentimber

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/25/11 10:05 PM

It is much better in person, btw.
Posted by: 458Win

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/26/11 12:37 AM

I shot the 9.3x66 version at SHOT and absolutely loved it.
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/26/11 04:31 AM

I wrote Beretta USA and the stocking US dealer to get the ball rolling. This has worked and I received a very positive written response. We are currently working on a special order to import a number of the Black Bear 9.3x62s. I will find out if this goes through shortly. I am only interested in one out of this bunch to purchase for myself, so there should be rifles available. I'll make sure you guys get the heads up if you'd like a shot at one.

Later smile
Posted by: idahoguy101

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/26/11 01:01 PM

I bet that the Ruger 77 African http://www.ruger.com/products/m77HawkeyeAfrican/models.html

and the CZ 550 Kevlar/Carbine http://www.ruger.com/products/m77HawkeyeAfrican/models.html

will be here before the Bretta SAKO does...
Posted by: pabucktail

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/26/11 09:09 PM

Fluted barrels look gross. I'd be grumpy if one of the only options for a 9.3 had a fluted barrel.
Posted by: zxc

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/30/11 07:51 AM

nice looking rifle, I shoot an M85 in 9.3x66. It replaces a 35Whelen and 375HH I have and had. Does everything the others do in a light low recoil package. Wonder if they will do this rifle in 9.3x66/370Sako mag?
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/30/11 10:51 PM

From what I gather, they intend to import the 9.3x66 due to this chambering with Federal.
Posted by: whelennut

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/31/11 07:44 PM

What about the Sako .370?
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/01/11 08:30 AM

The Sako 370 and the 9.3x66 are one and the same, just different names for marketing.
Posted by: Chandalar Jack

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/01/11 02:23 PM

I've a 9.3x62 & 64...what is the 66?
Posted by: BallisticPrimate

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/01/11 04:36 PM

Get this instead:



Steyr Pro Hunter Mountain, 9.3x62. 7.3 pounds, 20" barrel, holds 5, 286gr Woodleighs @ 2450fps.

Rath
Posted by: zxc

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/02/11 09:21 AM

a 9.3x66/370sako mag is built on an 06 sized cartridge that is 2.6" long. It runs a 250gr bullet 2700fps and a 286gr bullet 2550fps in a 24"bbl
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/02/11 10:56 AM

I take it that you are pleased with the cartridge?
Posted by: Salmotrutta

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/02/11 03:12 PM

Originally Posted By: GaryVA
I wrote Beretta USA and the stocking US dealer to get the ball rolling. This has worked and I received a very positive written response. We are currently working on a special order to import a number of the Black Bear 9.3x62s. I will find out if this goes through shortly. I am only interested in one out of this bunch to purchase for myself, so there should be rifles available. I'll make sure you guys get the heads up if you'd like a shot at one.

Later smile


Would you care to share the name of the "stocking dealer" and any timetable info? I think my .375 Ruger would go down the road if this Black Bear could be had, not that the Ruger is a bad gun.....I've just recently become enamored with guns from Finland and the 9.3x62.
Posted by: zxc

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/02/11 06:22 PM

yes I like the 9.3x66. On moose I see no difference to the 375HH I used to have. Found the 250gr AccuBond to an excellant all round bullet.
Posted by: Spotshooter

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/02/11 06:26 PM

Huh
Posted by: quickdraw

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/05/11 05:01 AM

I am understanding that they aren't importing something incredibly useful like this to the U.S. Is it just the 9.3mm calibers of the whole line?
Posted by: Spotshooter

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/05/11 05:21 AM

Welcome to the world of beretta logic
Posted by: sawbones66

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/05/11 08:24 AM

Merkel has 9.3x62 barrels in their modular (KR-1) rifle which is also available (or soon to be) with the American style stock. I have a hogback in 9.3 and .308 (should have gotten .243) and it is very sweet combo. I also have a CZ550 in 9.3x62. Terrific cartridge IMO.
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/06/11 04:40 AM

I am hearing that due to Federal Cartridge making the ammunition for the American version of the 9.3x66, the "370 Sako", Beretta USA might be importing the Black Bear in that chambering. If this happens, not sure which other chamberings would be offered.

I'm not so sure that any of them have been actually built yet for shipment to the distributors. It may very well be that they are in the process of judging the total numbers of how many to make and to where each of these will be shipped for distribution. The Black Bear at the SHOT show was probably a pre-production rifle for testing and show.

Later smile
Posted by: quickdraw

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/07/11 10:04 AM

I can't help thinking how awesome this rifle would be in 338RCM or 338-06. It would still have significant brush power with the heavier 250gr+ round nose bullets and tremendous diversity in lighter weights as well.

The general setup is almost exactly what I want to build in a custom rifle.
Posted by: SU35

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/07/11 01:35 PM

Quote:
I shot the 9.3x66 version at SHOT and absolutely loved it.


This is the one I want.
Posted by: quickdraw

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/07/11 04:17 PM

I'd be all over the 370 so long as there was good brass available
Posted by: croldfort

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/08/11 12:15 PM

Wow. Life is good, on 9.3x62 carbine decisions now. Sako 85 "Black Bear", a Steyr Pro Hunter "Mountain", or a CZ 550 FS wood stock "Mannlicher". How could one go wrong? Best or even better. Man, I love this stuff.
Posted by: tbear

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/11/11 10:38 AM

Sako makes a nice rifle just hope you never have a problem & have to deal with Beretta. I have had a problem & after preparing to sue they finally got resolved. Beretta specializes in lack of customer service. I will never buy another Beretta product.
Posted by: Omnivorous

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/12/11 12:29 AM

Why would you prefer this guy over Sako's short barreled stainless 375 h and h?
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/12/11 06:10 AM

Which model are you referencing?

The 375H&H uses the larger L action. They are heavier, they are longer, they hold less rounds, they have more recoil, and they are less handy. If you get the non-sighted slim barrel Synthetic, it will weigh the same, but it is longer, holds less rounds, has more recoil, and is less handy.

The 9.3 Black Bear uses the smaller M action. They are lighter, they are shorter, they hold more rounds, have less recoil, are more handy, and are near equal in terminal performance. Compared to the synthetic, the Black Bear has excellent iron sights and is compact in size.

Best smile
Posted by: Omnivorous

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/12/11 07:53 AM

I was referring to the Sako 85 Kodiak in either 338 or 375 h and h. It weighs 8 lbs, holds 5 rounds, and has an identical length 21 1/4 inch barrel.

5 is 3 more than anyone should really need, unless you are huntng DG.

6 is complete overkill.

So, very specifically, why the 7 lb Sako Blackbear 9.3x62 with 21 1/4 inch barrel over the 8 lb Sako Kodiak 375 H and H with a 21 1/4 inch barrel?
Posted by: zxc

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/12/11 08:07 AM

Originally Posted By: quickdraw
I'd be all over the 370 so long as there was good brass available


I had no real trouble getting sako headstamped brass, its probably Norma, I have 200 when I bought the rifle, and for a big game rifle it will last a long time.
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/12/11 11:32 AM

Very specifically for me, it is a good deal lighter in weight making for a handier package, while having reliable big gun performance with the recoil of a Whelen. I'm of the opinion the Black Bear appears to be an excellent platform for the 9.3x62/66 if one was looking for such chambered rifle. Eight pounds is no slug for a 375, but for me, at 8 pounds, I'd rather it be chambered 416.

Best smile
Posted by: Omnivorous

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/12/11 12:01 PM

Gary,

I have not done the recoil calcs yet, but I'm betting that the recoil in an 9 lb(with scope/rings/ammo/sling swivels/sling 9.3mm Black Bear is going to be un-noticeably different than in the 10 lb 375 H and H Kodiak. Given equal bullet weights.

So, we are left with the weight issue. I will leave it to the reader to decide if 9 lbs is much different than 10 lbs, in the arena in which these two rifles will be carried. I'm guessing that pound won't make a bit of difference.

What about available factory ammo? Why would anyone going on a DG hunt in Africa or Alaska put themselves at such a disadvantage?

The other issue is stainless vs blued steel. I'll take stainless every time.
Posted by: Omnivorous

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/12/11 01:30 PM

Out of curiosity, I went ahead and used HuntAmerica's recoil calculator to run the numbers-

With Federal Ammo's factory TSX loads for each-

(actually surprised Fed even made ammo for the 9.3)

9.3x66 BlackBear with 289 gr TSX at 2300FPS yields 28ftlbs of recoil energy and 13 ft/s velocity

375 h and h Kodiak with 300gr TSX at 2400FPS yields 32 ftlbs and 14 ft/s.

Please note I lopped 60fps off the BB for barrel length and 70 fps for the Kodiak.

Both are surprisingly pleasant compared to a 300 ultramag running Remington's 180 gr Swift Scirocco factory load.
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/12/11 01:49 PM

You're all over the map talking in circles.

Are you talking cartridges, rifles, or finish?

I'm not speaking for anyone else but me:

A 375H&H does not have significant recoil, but a 375H&H will have more recoil than a 9.3x62.

An eight pound rifle will be heavier than a seven pound rifle no matter where you carry that rifle on planet earth. A person looking for a seven pound base rifle will probably not find what they're looking for in a heavier eight pound base rifle. All else equal, the seven pounder will be handier.

Stainless steels used in production rifles are not created equal and are not rust proof. They will rust with exposure to salt spray, sweat, and chlorates. A proper barrier finish is needed to reduce this damage and a chrome moly substrate does not preclude one from having a proper barrier finish.

As to ammunition, I doubt you'd be at some sort of disadvantage for finding ammo with a 9.3x62 compared to a 375H&H.

Don't follow your point or logic. I have a chrome moly rifle with a durable finish more rust resistant than any factory production stainless rifle sold with the exception of maybe the factory stainless/Ionbond type finishes offered on a couple. It's the barrier finish that is the deal breaker and quite a number of plain old blue steel finished rifles have been pressed into some extreme service over the decades in both Alaska as well as Africa proving this point.

If you have a dislike for the 9.3x62, that is okay. If you have a dislike for a 7-pound rifle, that is okay. If you have a dislike for chrome moly rifles, that's okay too. But none of this changes the facts that a 9.3x62 is a good cartridge and that this new Black Bear appears to be an outstanding platform for this cartridge, even if it is made from chrome moly steel.

Best smile
Posted by: Omnivorous

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/12/11 01:57 PM

Gary,

I agree with much of what you say in general terms.

I am speaking to the Sako Black Bear vs the Sako Kodiak, however.

I simply cannot understand why anyone, knowing the above facts, would choose the Black Bear over the Kodiak other than having a 9 lb rifle vs a ten lb rifle( a meaningless, unnoticeable difference in my book).

Now if you will finally admit that you like the BB in 9.3 because it's the trendy thing to do, well then ya got me.
Posted by: quickdraw

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/12/11 02:06 PM

I really like this rifle. I think it's a much more useful version of the Remington 600 350 Rem Mag. That's really what I'm after.
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/13/11 07:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Omnivorous

I simply cannot understand why anyone, knowing the above facts, would choose the Black Bear over the Kodiak other than having a 9 lb rifle vs a ten lb rifle( a meaningless, unnoticeable difference in my book).

Now if you will finally admit that you like the BB in 9.3 because it's the trendy thing to do, well then ya got me.


Omnivorous,

I just built a second 416 to improve upon and replace my older 416. My older "Shoemaker light rifle" M70 416 weighed around 8 1/2 pounds with mounts less scope. My newer version is better balanced, better fit, and weighs approx 7 3/4 pounds with mounts less scope. The scope weighs 6 1/2 ounces and the ammo weighs 6 ounces which brings my new rifle to just over 8 1/2 pounds ready to roll. The difference between my old and new rifle is around 3/4 pounds and that difference is night and day. I like my old rifle, but my newer version is markedly improved and unmistakably better in my hands. To further place this into perspective, my scoped Sako 30-06 weighs 6 pounds 13 ounces. I completely and whole heartedly disagree with your statement reference weight if you are attempting to apply your personal preference as being factually the same as others, such as myself. Your thoughts on the matter apply to you, but they certainly do not apply to me.

As to being trendy; the 9.3x62 is about as far removed from modern trendy as a cartridge can go. If anything, it is an antiquated cartridge that is too old and vetted to be considered new and trendy. Compared to the trend for speed with the newer designs, I'd think many consider the aged 9.3x62 to be sluggish.

Going back to your complaints; each point you raised can be turned on most every cartridge, rifle, or finish. One could easily proclaim with authority; "With knowing all the facts, why would anyone choose either a 9.3x62 or a 375H&H Sako, when they can choose (fill-in-the-blank)."

Best smile


Posted by: RyanScott

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/14/11 08:26 PM

My 9.3 recoils far less than my .375 and hits like the Hammer of God. What's not to love?
Posted by: Tophet1

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 02/15/11 09:54 PM

Recoil can be very subjective.

I love my custom C/M 9.3x62 but when I fired it with full house 286 reloads next to my PH's .375H&H Ruger 77 with 270 grain Barnes reloads, the recoil was noticeably less and more 'controlled' in the Ruger. The Ruger appeared to weigh substantially more than my rifle.

After a few hours tracking on foot though, the lighter 9.3 was the pick.
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 05/05/11 09:02 AM

Originally Posted By: GaryVA
Anyone see the New 2011 Sako Black Bear 9.3x62?

- short fluted barrel, barrel band swivel mount, Recknagel sights, synthetic stock, weighs 7-pounds, holds 6-rounds. Looks like a good all-rounder for about anything/anywhere.






Sorry it took so long to get back, but I promised I'd give an update on the New Sako "Black Bear" 9.3x62. Everything worked out with a limited number of 20 rifles special ordered with an expected delivery date this December. I have my order in to reserve 1 of those 20. If anyone is interested, contact Alex Roy to get your name in the hat to reserve one of the remaining. By the time the order comes in, they may all be spoken for and gone.

Best smile

Alex Roy
www.eurooptic.com
439 Crawford Alley
Montoursville, PA 17754
+1 570 220 3159
Fax +1 570 368 3923
Posted by: bigsqueeze

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 05/05/11 10:19 AM

Very good looking rifle. Don`t see why the need for the flutes on the barrel though. Weight savings? Won`t be much.
Posted by: 458Win

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 05/05/11 11:26 AM

I imagine the flutes are there as much for "bling" as for weight reduction but when I handled and shot the rifle it was noticibly lighter and far better balanced and quicker to the shoulder than the 375 H&H Kodiak and Brown Bear versions.
Posted by: bigsqueeze

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 05/05/11 11:32 AM

Originally Posted By: 458Win
I imagine the flutes are there as much for "bling" as for weight reduction but when I handled and shot the rifle it was noticibly lighter and far better balanced and quicker to the shoulder than the 375 H&H Kodiak and Brown Bear versions.
..........I won`t be trading in my 375 Ruger Alaskan for the Sako.
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 05/05/11 08:57 PM

I decided to thin my collection. I'm a big 416Rem fan and have that want covered well. I'm also a big 30-06 fan and have that want covered also. There are times I want a bigger bullet than the 30-06 without jumping up to the 416 and over the years I've found myself keeping and running examples of 375H&H/Rugers, 338WM/06/RCMs, and some other in-betweens. I recently decided to keep my 30-06 and my 416, but to sell off and replace all my other in-betweens with a single 9.3x62, which in a pinch could also replace my 30-06 as well as my 416. We'll see how it goes, but for now I don't mind so much selling off some of my rifles to have a bit of cash on hand during these hard times. I'll give this new rifle a run to see if it fits the bill.

Best smile
Posted by: pabucktail

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 05/05/11 08:59 PM

Gary, how much are those rifles going to cost?
Posted by: Spotshooter

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 05/05/11 09:22 PM

on his site they are 1,695

Spot
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 10/26/11 05:30 PM

It finally came in and I gave it a cursory look over tonight. Far better than I had expected, very impressive rifle that appears near perfect for what I wanted in a 9.3x62. I'm going to run the rifle with Optilock Ringmounts and a Schmidt Bender Zenith 1.1-4x24. Alex Roy did a great job getting the Black Bear into the States when no one else could, I'm pleased.

I'll try and post a photo review of the rifle when I get a chance to sit down and spend some time with it. I'm thinking she'll turn out to be a stellar rig.

Later smile
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 10/26/11 05:49 PM

P.S.,

Alex brought in some of the Black Bears in .308 and 30-06 as well as the 9.3x62. Not sure what is left, but if you're interested, I'd give him a call.

Later smile
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 10:46 AM

The Black Bear is half a pound lighter than expected. The standard listed weight from their prototype rifle is 7-pounds, but mine weighs in at 6 1/2 pounds with magazine box. Very pleasant surprise, the rifle appears closer to a Finnlight than to a Brown Bear. The balance and handiness is outstanding! It basically handles like a Finnlight with fixed sights. So far I'm pleased. I'll give it a shake down when I return from my trip.

Later smile



Posted by: verhoositz

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 11:46 AM

Oh CHIT ...another one to add to the "I gotta have" list...guess I'll just have to make do with the heavy arsed CZ "Ahmellican" and it's elephant snot finish to work some more of it's one caliber for everything magic until the Recession is over! Stout loads of RL15 under the ancient 250gr Ballistic Tips work great on WTails...hope the load works the same or better in NAB's.
Ron
Posted by: dhg

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 12:28 PM

Sakos are always lighter than their listed weight - ususally by some margin with the synthetic stocked versions. The finnlights are actually under the 6lb mark, and not much more than the Kimber montanas. The Sako synthetic stock is very light - only a touch more than the McMillan edge.
Posted by: jim62

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 01:02 PM

Originally Posted By: dhg
Sakos are always lighter than their listed weight - ususally by some margin with the synthetic stocked versions. The finnlights are actually under the 6lb mark, and not much more than the Kimber montanas. The Sako synthetic stock is very light - only a touch more than the McMillan edge.



Sakos do NOT have a rep for being lighter that their listed weights. Most of them are actually heavier, especially their wood stocked rifles.

And their synthetics stocks are schit compared to a hand laid up fiberglass stock like an Edge.. Basically, injection molded crap on a $1,500 rifle. Great.
Posted by: dhg

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 02:06 PM

I wasn't saying the sako stock was as good as an edge stock; it is just an injection molded stock (personally, i am pretty happy with the best of the new injection molded stocks, anyway). I was saying they were about the same weight. The sako is probably the best of the injection molded stocks - and remember it is the stock shape that McMillan quite openly admits to copying for much of its own line. I thought the edge was carbonfibre, not fiberglass. I am suprised they can make a glass stock that weight.

Weigh any of the synthetic stocked 85s - they are way lighter than their listed weight, often by about half a pound.
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 03:03 PM

I see nothing wrong with the Black Bear ST stock, it's very stiff and utilitarian, the ergonomics are near perfect for me, and I expect it to be durable and accurate. I'd not want to switch for a laid up fiberglass stock because that would add unneeded weight with little to no gain in performance. I'd also be leery with using a benchrest constructed "egg shell" stock as this would be a weaker construction which would save little to no weight and would have no performance gains. If I manage to break this stock, I'd probably also manage to break an "egg shell" constructed stock.

Later smile
Posted by: jim62

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 03:23 PM

Originally Posted By: GaryVA
I see nothing wrong with the Black Bear ST stock, it's very stiff and utilitarian, the ergonomics are near perfect for me, and I expect it to be durable and accurate. I'd not want to switch for a laid up fiberglass stock because that would add unneeded weight with little to no gain in performance. I'd also be leery with using a benchrest constructed "egg shell" stock as this would be a weaker construction which would save little to no weight and would have no performance gains. If I manage to break this stock, I'd probably also manage to break an "egg shell" constructed stock.

Later smile


I am glad you like you rifle ,Gary, but those stocks are NOT full equal of a McMillan Edge stock in weight, stiffness OR strength.

To claim such is laughable. The Sako koolaid has made you drunk.




Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 04:17 PM

I'm glad you edited your original post and turned it down a notch, you were getting a bit ugly.

Do you actually believe that a benchrest construction "egg shell" graphite Edge is stronger than a solid fill??? You save weight over solid fill, but you lose strength which is why they break when used on bigger chamberings. In addition, do you truly think that by installing an Edge stock that this rifle will somehow shoot more accurately or kill more game???? Do you truly believe that this stock will break from shooting or handling afield?????

I'd wager that this Black Bear ST stock will shoot hunting loads with ample accuracy. I'd also wager that the stock will be durable with many years of dependable service. I already know that it is light, stiff, and has great ergonomics. I just do not see how installing an Edge at this point could add any utilitarian value to the rifle. I can see how a solid fill could add some strength, but the extra strength will be unneeded for performance and I don't want the added weight. An Edge is not a solid fill, it is an "egg shell" that is stiff but with limited strength due to its construction.

It almost sounds like you were beaten as a child with a synthetic stock. A day in the field hunting with a wood stocked blued rifle would do you much good, this would help clear your head from drinking too much Edge Koolaid smile

I'd relax, there are plenty of Finnlights the world over that work well with their "laughable" factory stocks.

Best smile
Posted by: Phoneman

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 04:32 PM

i wish that i could get this guide gun gone so i can order a kodiak. Gary, I've been searching for scope mounts for them, wondering which you put on your bear? I'd like some detachable ones so i can utilize the iron sights if i wish.
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 04:48 PM




I'm using these, the Sako 1-pc Optilock Ringmounts. They are lower than the x-tra low 2-pc Optilocks, and are cleaner with less bulk. They require a Torx key to loosen, but Sako published that they are designed to be removed and replaced without loss of zero. They have a solid fit with a positive stop. I much prefer these over the bulkier 2-pc version.



I'll be running this scope, 1.1-4 power.

Good Luck smile
Posted by: jim62

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 04:48 PM

Originally Posted By: GaryVA
I'm glad you edited your original post and turned it down a notch, you were getting a bit ugly.

Do you actually believe that a benchrest construction "egg shell" graphite Edge is stronger than a solid fill??? You save weight over solid fill, but you lose strength which is why they break when used on bigger chamberings. In addition, do you truly think that by installing an Edge stock that this rifle will somehow shoot more accurately or kill more game???? Do you truly believe that this stock will break from shooting or handling afield?????

I'd wager that this Black Bear ST stock will shoot hunting loads with ample accuracy. I'd also wager that the stock will be durable with many years of dependable service. I already know that it is light, stiff, and has great ergonomics. I just do not see how installing an Edge at this point could add any utilitarian value to the rifle. I can see how a solid fill could add some strength, but the extra strength will be unneeded for performance and I don't want the added weight. An Edge is not a solid fill, it is an "egg shell" that is stiff but with limited strength due to its construction.

It almost sounds like you were beaten as a child with a synthetic stock. A day in the field hunting with a wood stocked blued rifle would do you much good, this would help clear your head from drinking too much Edge Koolaid smile

I'd relax, there are plenty of Finnlights the world over that work well with their "laughable" factory stocks.

Best smile


Whats getting "ugly" is your total LACK of intellectual dishonesty here...

Dude, when a $1,500 + Sako has a stock no better constructed than one on a $300 Marlin XS7, something is wrong.

And for the record, EDGE fill stocks have worked JUST FINE on a 9.3x62 ( which is NOT a magnum cartrdge).

If you REALLY believe that the milk jug stock on your overpriced Sako is better than a hand laid up Carbon fiber McMillan EDGE- then you'd better call McMillan and tell them.

You also better tell all those aircraft engineers that use carbon fiber to build advanced Jet aircraft frame components.

And ,of course tell the benchrest shooters that if they just used new Sakos with injection molded stocks they would have better BR rifle platforms.





Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 05:00 PM

You're having a meltdown. I have an Edge on my long action M70, they are good stocks but not worth having a total meltdown over. You need to relax.
Posted by: jim62

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 05:10 PM

Originally Posted By: GaryVA
You're having a meltdown. I have an Edge on my long action M70, they are good stocks but not worth having a total meltdown over. You need to relax.


Not having a meltdown. And I am relaxed. wink

I just think its sad when some Sako Koolaid drinker claims their milk jug stocks are something that they are NOT- like the full equivalent of a McMillan edge.

Its laughable and you are wrong to do it.
Posted by: bh444

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 05:15 PM

Nice,Im liken it GaryVA.
(Comming from a guy that has one two many KoolAids in him)
Don't mean to hijack but
Phoneman,check out the Leupold QR bases for Sakos.I have a set and they are pretty slick.I think they would work best for what you want.
Posted by: dhg

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 05:43 PM

Gary, that combination looks absolutely spectacular. That is probably the definition of a well-balanced, hard-hitting hunting rifle.

Jim, you don't need anymore koolaid. You need a nice camomille tea in a quite room in a nice comfy chair, a few deeep breaths and to relax, dude.
Posted by: jim62

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By: dhg
Gary, that combination looks absolutely spectacular. That is probably the definition of a well-balanced, hard-hitting hunting rifle.

Jim, you don't need anymore koolaid. You need a nice camomille tea in a quite room in a nice comfy chair, a few deeep breaths and to relax, dude.


I am sure a chick like you thinks drinking tea is a solution for swallowing big lies(among other things)..

Which explains why you would think an injection molded stock made from recycled Finnish milks jugs is the full structural equal of a McMillan Edge.

Go drink some more tea , Francis.. wink
Posted by: 65BR

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 06:52 PM

No doubt, wouldn't it be nice to see Sako's w/McMs at the current price point......NOT holding my breath.

That said, Sako takes pride and is not going to put JUNK on the market. I don't get excited about Tupperware, yet a rifle is a tool in the end, and if accurate and functional, as historically all Sako's have done very well in those regards.....I have no big beef.

If you want a sub MOA guaranteed rifle, get a Howa or Vanguard and drop it in a McM, for 1K. Afterall, they copied Sako's design and are well made, yet if you want a REAL Sako, you get what you get and Sako gets the price the market will bear.

The quality workmanship and accuracy has tom come with some price tag.

I think I could REALLY like that rifle above if I get a trip to AK together. No doubt, if they could come in at half the 1695 they'd be all the betta!
Posted by: 65BR

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 06:54 PM

One more thing, a few years ago at SHOT, I talked to the folks at the McM booth re: Sako and the possibility of McM stocks, they said 'No go' so it's surely a 'bean counters' decision at corporate.......
Posted by: Phoneman

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 07:05 PM

I just found out that talley makes em. I had talley quick release ones for the sakos. I have them on another rifle and really like them. And they are a whole lot cheaper than the optilock ones. I'm planning onputting a leupy 1.5-5 on mine.
Posted by: Phoneman

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 07:06 PM

I found the kodiaks for 1500 shipped. Figured that was pretty good
Posted by: jim62

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 07:42 PM

Originally Posted By: 65BR
One more thing, a few years ago at SHOT, I talked to the folks at the McM booth re: Sako and the possibility of McM stocks, they said 'No go' so it's surely a 'bean counters' decision at corporate.......


No doubt.

I also think it's interesting that when SAKO decided to upgrade their A7 stocks on the Tecomate rifles, they went with Bell and Carlson..
Posted by: Hizzie

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/04/11 08:08 PM

Gary-

Lovely rifle. Perefect sights. I look forward to more pics and a full range report.
Posted by: LRCampos

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/05/11 04:36 AM

Originally Posted By: 65BR
One more thing, a few years ago at SHOT, I talked to the folks at the McM booth re: Sako and the possibility of McM stocks, they said 'No go' so it's surely a 'bean counters' decision at corporate.......



McMillan makes several stocks for Sako 85, including the recoil lugs in the stocks.

I know because I just received mine McMillan stocks two weeks ago for my Kodiak 85 and my Classic 85.
Posted by: 65BR

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/05/11 08:31 AM

Jim, to your point, IF gun mfg. would offer say a nice $250 discount by selling a bbl/action of choice, w/o stock, then us Loony's would surely be better off just ordering what we want, unless the wait time for a McM is an issue.

Come to think of it, mfg. production speed may be an issue for McM I don't know, to keep up w/mass produced rifles on an assembly line. But I do know from that SHOT conversation, it's 'cost control' as many corporations do that dictated McM or not.
Posted by: SU35

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 11/08/11 08:53 PM

Gary, great to see your new Sako rifle in 9.3. I'm envious for sure and hope you show us some groups.

I have two Sako A7's that out shoot my custom barreled rifles with McEdge stocks.

They are shooters for sure. One 25-06 has put 75 bullets under a .8 so far. I've still yet to clean it.

Their stocks are durable and I like the ergos.
Posted by: WiFowler

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/01/12 10:28 AM

Originally Posted By: GaryVA
The Black Bear is half a pound lighter than expected. The standard listed weight from their prototype rifle is 7-pounds, but mine weighs in at 6 1/2 pounds with magazine box. Very pleasant surprise, the rifle appears closer to a Finnlight than to a Brown Bear. The balance and handiness is outstanding! It basically handles like a Finnlight with fixed sights. So far I'm pleased. I'll give it a shake down when I return from my trip.

Later smile






If I may ask, what is the dia. of the barrel at the muzzle? Trying to get an idea of what contour the barrel is.
Posted by: 458Win

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/03/12 11:59 PM

I have a hunter coming up this spring who will be using the .370 Sako - aka 9.3x66 - and I'll let you all know how it works.
Having killed big bears with the 9.3x62, 9.5x62 ( aka 375 Scovill) and the 375 H&H and never noticed any difference between any of them I am betting the .370 does just as well.
The beauty of the Sako Black Bear model in my opinion was it's light weight and lively handling.
Posted by: mlg

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/04/12 02:08 AM

I just bought one of these today in 308win. Should have it in a week or so and I am looking forward to it.
Posted by: jfo4

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/07/12 11:10 PM

Just picked up a 9.3 black bear over here in Kodiak.

We'll have to get Taj, out shooting one of these days!


Jason
Posted by: 458Win

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/08/12 09:53 AM

Jason, the weather still has him and his plane stuck there. As him to show you his new 375 Ruger McMillan purple swirly blush
Posted by: 9.3x62

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/09/12 10:12 PM

Tikka T3 SS synthetic, 7lbs. even with a 1.75-6 Leupold in steel rings, limbsaver pad + 5 shot mag.
Posted by: WiFowler

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/10/12 05:58 AM

Originally Posted By: 9.3x62
Tikka T3 SS synthetic . . . .


Presumably not available in the US ?
Posted by: jfo4

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/10/12 09:22 PM

Paul,

Purple Swirl! That's great...
Good thing he carries a mt. gun or I'd have to tease him.

Saw his plane flying out of the airport and figured he'd left.

Jason
Posted by: jfo4

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/10/12 09:25 PM

Back to the 9.3,

Does anyone have experiences with the barnes 250 grain?

I have a few different factory loads coming from Anchorage; but I'm hoping to craft loads for the Black Bear around the 286 Nosler Partition and 250 grain Barnes.

Jason
Posted by: 458Win

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/10/12 11:21 PM

Jason, he stopped by the valley and had lunch with us and made it to Fbks a little after dark. He is back flying in Fbks now for awhile. Guess you won't get to see his McSwirly. He had to replace his beat up 375 Ruger as it walked away from behind the counter at Andrews Air. As he said, somebody is in for a rude suprise when the open the gun case.
keep an eye out for the ugliest 375 ruger on the island
Posted by: jfo4

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/11/12 06:36 PM

Phil,

I've seen it...I think a blender attacked the stock. To bad it walked off, it's easy to have happen down there at Trident.

I'll have to try hard to make my black bear as worn in as his .375 ruger.

Jason
Posted by: CrazyIs

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 03/23/12 04:31 PM

I just picked up my Black Bear in 9.3x62 and it's short and light. 6lbs 8.6ozs by itself. Should be quite a handy little thumper. The open sights are very visible as well.
Posted by: mlg

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 05/11/12 12:34 PM

Any range reports yet on the Black Bear 9.3s?

mlg
Posted by: bigwhoop

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 05/13/12 07:57 AM

I hope Gary gets back to us pretty soon with some stats and groups.
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 05/13/12 03:26 PM

I will smile
Posted by: snowwalker

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 05/29/12 10:26 PM

Does the stock on the Black Bear have a raised cheek on left side?
Anyone shot one in 338 win mag?
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 05/30/12 10:03 AM

This should give you an idea. I'm 5'10" with an athletic build. The stock and comb height fits my shape very well with my cheek weld and line of sight falling into the correct place. I'm currently running one scope with its center mounted 1.64" above the bore center line over the chamber. I have no difficulty making the transition between this scope and the fixed Rechnagel sights. Someone with a large round face or possibly a small skinny face may think differently.





Not in English, but it's easy to understand and will give you a good visual of the ergonomics.



Reference the 338WM, I don't think such animal exists. This particular model 85 was built by Sako with black bear and wild boar hunters in mind. They have it in the S-action chambered 308win and 338fed, and in the M-action chambered 30-06, 8x57, 9.3x62 and 9.3x66. I've yet to hear plans for a 338WM. Based on my limited involvement in getting this rifle imported, I understand that the original intent was for Beretta to market the 370Sako(9.3x66) in the US due to Federal Cartridge wanting to push that chambering. But as of date, these plans were changed and Beretta brought over the 308, 30-06, 9.3x62, and will soon bring over the 338federal.

Hope this helps.

Best smile
Posted by: snowwalker

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 05/30/12 10:44 PM

Thanks to you sir as that is what I was looking for. My reason for asking of the 338 winch is Beretta is listing it in 338 winch, 375 H&H, and 9.3X62 HERE
Thanks to this thread I now have a serious craving for a Black Bear!
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 05/31/12 05:56 AM

That's a typo. JRSA534 is a 338WM Brown Bear, and JRSA537 is a 375H&H Brown Bear. The Brown Bear is built on the L-action. The third rifle listed JRSB554 is indeed a 9.3x62 Black Bear. That particular page you linked to is a bit goofed up. Even the description they give for the Black Bear is actually the description for the Brown Bear.

Here is the correct Sako description for the Black Bear, but keep in mind the additional chamberings in 338fed, 8x57, and 9.3x66.

http://kjergaardsports.com/wp-content/uploads/Sako-85-Black-Bear.pdf

Best smile
Posted by: snowwalker

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 05/31/12 06:13 AM

Gotcha. Thanks again.
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 06/08/12 10:16 PM

Adding onto my thread, I had some spare time while down at the farm to work a bit more with the Black Bear. Forgive the photos and video because I was working out of my jeep with an old camera.

I stuck it up on a fence post as I guess this is now a mandatory requirement here on 24hourcampfire.



Nothing fancy, but I keep a homemade portable standing bench at the farm house so I can check zeros. It's not solid like a traditional seated bench, but I can easily move it around and it closely matches my zeros for field positions shooting off-hand, kneeling and sitting.



I have a lightweight portable target stand that holds a cardboard FBI Q target backer and I stick it out to whatever distance I need. I use a compact laser to verify distance and there are fields around the house where you could shoot out to a maximum of just under 1,000 yards if you cared to do so. Today I was shooting 100 yards to confirm my base zero and I shot field positions. I was using factory HDY 286grain fodder.



I also shot a bit testing the rifle with my favorite homemade staff and shooting sticks for off hand support. They worked very well at making otherwise long iffy off handed shots very solid and doable.



My shooting sticks easily convert from a one handed walking staff, to shooting sticks, or to two individual staffs.



The rifle fits me well and was very easy to shoot accurately. I had no problem shooting good groups with the factory Hornady ammo. Here's a three shot group from 100 yards off my standing bench. I'd expect my handloads from off a solid seated bench to be even better. The rifle is not finicky and does not walk as the barrel heat up.



As for feeding, all I can say is to repeat that this is the single best feeding factory stock production rifle I've ever handled. It will cleanly feed out of the mag box and then eject the fired case well clear of the rifle without a blemish. I shot a short video to show how quickly it will run through six rounds. The first one out the tube is a fired case which is cleanly ejected and thrown a fair distance farther than the remaining five loaded rounds from out of the mag box.



I can cycle the rifle and eject the fired case as hard as I please and it will leave the rifle without a blemish in perfect condition.



The rifle is ugly as sin, but it does work very well. It is very fun to shoot being it handles so well and is nearly foolproof. The ergonomics of this rifle fits me like a glove and it makes a great platform for the 9.3x62. I am more than pleased and look forward to working up my handloads. I'll keep you guys posted.

Later smile
Posted by: Slavek

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 06/09/12 07:45 PM

Looks like very functional "meat rifle". The stock dims look about the same as that found on 1950s Sako sporter assembled around FN Mauser action. It was nice knockabout rifle with medium contour barrel and 100m & 200m rear folders chambered for the glorious .375 Magnum. I remember it was easy to carry, but what I remember the most was brutal recoil it produced when fired.
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 06/10/12 07:44 AM

Though my Black Bear is lighter, I have these calculated figures on hand using the same rifle weight of 8.5 pounds. Looking at the numbers for recoil energy in ft-lbs and recoil velocity in fps, on paper this is how they stack up:

375H&H...w/ 270grain load = 41.8 ft-lbs / 17.8 fps
338WM...w/ 250grain load = 35.7 ft-lbs / 16.5 fps
350RM....w/ 250grain load = 29.0 ft-lbs / 14.8 fps
338-06...w/ 250grain load = 28.2 ft-lbs / 14.6 fps
9.3x62...w/ 250grain load = 25.7 ft-lbs / 14.0 fps
35Whel..w/ 250grain load = (about same as 9.3x62)
30-06....w/ 180grain load = 19.7 ft-lbs / 12.2 fps

Using the 30-06 and 375H&H as bookends for comparison, there's a marked increase in recoil between the two being doubled with some extra recoil added in for spare change. The 338WM is at the upper end of that gap being closer to the H&H as the 9.3x62 is at the bottom end of the gap being closer to the 30-06. In my quest for finding the biggest bang for the buck, I'm really liking the big gun performance offered by the 9.3x62 for the little increase in recoil added over a 30-06. It has a marked reduction in felt recoil compared to that Sako .375 Magnum you remember. This rifle is a pussycat in comparison.

Best smile
Posted by: Slavek

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 06/11/12 11:20 PM

You are massaging those numbers to make 9,3x62 look like pussycat. The poor Rimless Nitro Express Holland is throwing the 270gr slug at over 2800fps with >85grains of powder. That is where the dreadful 41.8ft-lbs comes from.
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 06/12/12 05:12 PM

Not sure I follow?? I used my load data for the H&H:

270grain bullet, 83grains powder, 2,690fps, 8.5lbs rifle.

Loaddata recoil calculator crunches those numbers at 41.79ft-lbs of measured free recoil, which I rounded to 41.8ft-lbs. Loaddata is a bit more forgiving compared to Charlie Sisk's recoil calculator which crunches the same numbers to 46ft-lbs of measured recoil. The numbers you gave of 85grains and 2,800fps on the Sisk calculator runs 51ft-lbs!!

Point I made was the rifle you remember and described was magnum chambered using a larger magnum load of powder. The 9.3x62 I'm describing is a non-magnum chambering using a smaller non-magnum load of powder more related to the 30-06. I've had such H&H for a number of years, and yes, IMO, the 9.3x62 is a pussycat in comparison because of the smaller case capacity and reduced powder charge.

Best smile
Posted by: Slavek

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 06/13/12 02:20 PM

Oh I'm just fooling about that is nice rifle much nicer then CZ500 'Medium' Mannlicher crowbar I used to own briefly. Surprisingly sightless 'American-style' ones with composite stock and 23" barrels are sweet handling rifles. If I got one of those instead it would still be with me. Anyhow I feel blessed as today I actually held 30 shot Keltec .22magnum pistol which is made of unobtainum at this time.
Posted by: mlg

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 06/16/12 04:58 AM

GaryVA

You are indeed fortunate that your rifle ejects the rounds cleanly.

I recently bought the same rifle in the same caliber and believe me, the empty cases were hitting the bottom of my scope, so much so it was chipping the finish off the scope.

The rifle was sent back to the agents here and it came back about 10 days later. Their gunsmith acknowledged that this was happening but stated that there was nothing that could be done about it.

To cut a long story short, the importers graciously accepted the return of the rifle for a full refund.

The problem does exist in at least the 30-06length actioned Sako 85. Don't know about the longer action models. The local Beretta Rep also saw the problem & agreed that this was indeed happening, though he did not think it was a big deal. . To me it was unacceptable.

I should also like to point out that I have had the same rifle in 308 for some time and that this ejection problem does not occur with the shorter action.
Posted by: bigwhoop

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 06/16/12 07:51 AM

Its too bad to read the consensus was that "there was nothing that could be done about it" and "it was no big deal". That is not customer service or being attentive to a design flaw. That is sloppy approach that tells the consumers they aren't thought of very highly. Shame on Beretta/Sako.
Posted by: mlg

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 06/16/12 12:08 PM

Bigwhoop

Yes - you got a point - however they were quick to offer me the option of the refund so I guess thats fair enough. Makes one wonder how many times they have come across this problem before.

I now know of at least one other rifle here that does the same thing - an 85 in 30-06 but the owner, a friend of mine says it does not bother him too much. He thought I was making too much of a fuss out of a minor thing and he may be right!
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 06/16/12 08:02 PM

Sorry to hear that mlg, mine is pretty close to perfect straight from the Sako box. Smooth bolt, slick feed, and it refuses to misfeed no matter how hard I try.

Kinda odd that a smith would say your particular rifle cannot be made to feed reliably. I hunt with a guild smith who has taken production rifles that fed like can crushers and turned them into slick feeding machines, don't see how your 85 would be any different. I've run the 85 chambered as large as the 375H&H, and though not as slick out the box as this 9.3x62, feeding for that big cartridge was reliable and well above average. If that huge cartridge fed well, don't see why yours cannot be tuned. Quite a number of production rifles have benefited from a bit of quality feed work.

By any chance did you shoot any video of your rifle jamming up? I've yet to see one with this problem and am curious to see the mechanics in action. If available, I'd appreciate if you would post it.

Thanks smile
Posted by: mlg

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 06/17/12 02:23 AM

GaryVA

No I did not take a vid. To be quite honest I dont know that it would have been easy to show on a video. When I showed the Beretta rep it took about 4-5 goes before he realised that the ejecting case, was, infact, hitting the scope tube. It happens real fast.

I suspect that this is the case many times with this rifle as it happens almost too fast for the eye to see - but it certainly does happen - the "ping" when it hits the scope is quite audible and the dented case mouths are further evidence.

I really cannot understand why some rifles do it and some dont (give same action & caliber).

They did offer me another rifle in same caliber but I at that time did not see the point. I was almost tempted by the offer of a 338 fed too and if I had not been planning to use the rifle on Buff I may well have done.

Anyway good luck with your rifle. My 308 is very slick & absolutely no problems with that rifle!

Rgds

mlg
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 06/19/12 03:49 PM

Don't think too many are running this S&B, but if you are, thought I'd share my experience with covers. I disliked the factory stretch covers but didn't want to run the scope naked. I tried the Scope Shield, but I'm a hardcore scope tube handle grabber and couldn't warm up to the full neoprene cover ergonomics. I ended up taking the drive to town where I went through a pile of Butler Creek caps to find the correct sizes. Ended up the 2A-OBJ and the 18-EYE were a perfect fit. So anyone running this scope interested in the BC caps, that's the sizes to get. Butler Creek had a new 1-piece tactical flip scope cover at the SHOT SHOW which I like, but I haven't seen them hit the shelf yet. If they come out with a set that fits, I may make the switch.

In addition, last time out I got the actual bullet drop on paper for my standard 285/286grain load out to 250 yards in 25yard increments. Took a Word program and made up a table and simple drop chart which I mounted on the scope tube. It covers range, drop, come-ups, and crosswind for a quick peek and easy in the field corrections. I've got this load dialed in real good.

I'm waiting for re-supply of my 250grain components so I can get that load dialed in. I'll post those results when I get 'em.

Later smile

Posted by: BravoFoxtrot

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 07/22/12 04:15 PM

Sorry to bump an old thread...but this rifle in a 30-06 (and the Kodiak in .338 WM) has piqued my interest.

GaryVA - Great pics and information! The Black Bear version appears to be blued...is this correct? Not a fan of blued rifles and much prefer stainless, but the BB is lighter, and according to reports, better balanced. I also prefer a 30-06 over a .338 WM (Kodiak). Might be worth the compromise....
Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 07/24/12 04:41 PM

Yes, blued. This thread has gotten a bit long so it's easy to miss some of the posted info. This was discussed earlier in the thread. All the working inards on the rifle are same as a stainless, only change is the receiver and barrel. As I've already noted, I expect zero issues from the substrate on those parts.

Originally Posted By: GaryVA
Stainless steels used in production rifles are not created equal and are not rust proof. They will rust with exposure to salt spray, sweat, and chlorates. A proper barrier finish is needed to reduce this damage and a chrome moly substrate does not preclude one from having a proper barrier finish.

I have a chrome moly rifle with a durable finish more rust resistant than any factory production stainless rifle sold with the exception of maybe the factory stainless/Ionbond type finishes offered on a couple. It's the barrier finish that is the deal breaker and quite a number of plain old blue steel finished rifles have been pressed into some extreme service over the decades in both Alaska as well as Africa proving this point.


I've already owned a Kodiak 375H&H. I'm a bigger fan of the 416Rem, and am also a huge fan of a light 416Rem built on an M70, so the Kodiak is gone. In comparison to the Kodiak, I much prefer this Black Bear, it is a much handier rifle, by far.

Best smile
Posted by: BravoFoxtrot

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 08/08/12 10:19 AM

Thanks, Gary! I just found your response today. I really liked what I read about the Black Bear, but I just can't become a fan of a blued for my daily driver. I have a Kodiak .338 WM enroute, so we'll see! I think I would have rather had a .284 or .30 caliber than a .338, but I'll give it the 'ol college try.

Thanks again!
Joe
Posted by: RJM

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 08/09/12 03:37 AM

These are such great rifles...why aren't they on the regular import list?

Bob
Posted by: Spotshooter

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 08/09/12 05:22 AM

Before the big bear existed I got tired of waiting for a state side Sako 9.3x62 so I converted a 25-06 into one.

I matched the barrel length and faster twist of the CZ in a match barrel - works pretty good.



Posted by: Spotshooter

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 08/09/12 05:23 AM

I thought euro optics had some 9.3's in stock...
Posted by: Spotshooter

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 08/09/12 05:31 AM

Here ya go - looks like he's stil got some in stock.

http://www.eurooptic.com/sako-black-bear-93x62-jrsb554.aspx

Mines weights 7.25 lbs and is in a McMillan stock

Posted by: GaryVA

Re: New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62 - 01/16/13 09:07 PM

Spot shooter, Would you be so kind to post a full shot of your rifle on this thread. You have a great rifle and I'd like a full pic. Thanks smile