Hi guys.

The old .375 HH seems to easily fit short barrels, such as 20 inchers, without suffering noticeable velocity loss.

I thought it would be the same with the 458's larger bore section but I've just read in a caliber review it needs a 24 inches barrel for proper propulsion.

Any experience with 458 WM in short barrel rifles here ?

Thanks for reading.

I've shot a few rock chucks with a 20" rig, it sure seemed adequate for the job..

I'd go 21" and rock on! 4 me, it'd be more about barrel weight than length.

Dober

The .458 Lott is popular on this forum so there must be some advantage to more velocity. I would check on the African forum and see what they say.

If there is a problem with it I have never noticed it in the past twenty-seven years.
I recently took this photo of my 20 1/2" barreled 458 and have put it on a couple other threads. I get an honest 2050fps with most 500 gr loads and a bit hotter with others and as Finn Aagaard said " a 500 gr 458 bullet at 2000fps puts a big bloody hole in anything it hits" I certainly agree.

The 458 winchester magnum has a very high expansion ratio, kinda like a 45-70, high expansion ratio cases are not as affected by shorter barrel lenght's as say a 7mm STW.

I would load the shorter barrel 458 WM with Rl-7 powder and let her BOOM.

Gunner

holy crap, Phil...that bear skull is HUGE...

Don`t have a 458, but maybe I can offer some insight about shorter barrels.

Proper propulsion should also be defined by how long a barrel one wishes to have, coupled with how long of a rifle the user wishes to handle, carry, hunt with, and so on.

If you prefer a shorter OAL`d 458 rifle with a shorter barrel, then I wouldn`t worry about the term "proper propulsion" and just live with the chrony results received.

As an example, let`s say one loses roughly 30 fps "per inch" or a total difference of 120 fps by cutting a 458 Win barrel down an additional 4 inches to a length of 20 inches. Will that make any difference in killing power on whatever game you`re going to hunt with a 458 Win? Make any real difference with the average killing distances?

Who or by what standards define proper propulsion for any given round? Sure, anytime a barrel is shortened there will always be a velocity reduction. I just don`t understand why anyone could deem that a 458 needs a 24" barrel for "proper propulsion." And at what velocity #s properly define proper propulsion for a 458?

Using that analogy, I suppose my 375 Ruger Alaskan with its 20" barrel, could instead use a 23" or 24" barrel because my max loads of RL17 @ 2800+ fps using a 270 gr bullet aren`t fast enough? Is 2800+ fps not enough so called proper propulsion for a 270 grainer coming from a 20" barrel?

My 300 WSM Ruger Frontier carbine with its 16.5" barrel and using max doses of RL17, can ship a 175 gr VLD from the muzzle at 2973 fps. The average 24" barreled 300 WSM using the same bullet and RL17 charge can probably get about 3100 to 3120 fps.

Maybe a 175 gr VLD @ 2973 fps, doesn`t have the "proper propulsion" for a 300 WSM?

If one chooses to have a shorter barrel along with a shorter OAL`d rifle in one rifle package, then whatever the reduced velocities happen to be, IS the "proper propulsion" for that particular owner.

Phil was it you or Finn who had the scope base welded onto the receiver? I think I read about it in Rifle magazine a few years back.
whelennut

I have a couple of .458 mags, one with a factory 22 inch barrel and one with a 24 inch that I turned into a .458-Lott. They both shoot well and hit hard on target! I can't imagine any big game animal realizing any difference in velocity or energy etc. The do make a very nice big hole in flesh.

Thanks for the answers, guys.

I'm still planning to build some leo scout for driven hunts and I hope someday going back to Africa. I hesitate to work on my Win 70 375 HH or trying the 458. The rifle should be able to shoot from the lightest roe to the biggest anything-dangerous-I-could-afford-someday with enough velocity for running game but also the ability to accurately shoot the heaviest slugs (300-350 in the 375 and 500 in the 458).

It looks like both the calibers could do the job.

I think you are refering to my son's CZ 416 Rigby. At his request I had a Wild West winged peep sight welded to the receiver while he was working in Zambia.

better off getting a .458 lott and having a gunsmith chop it down and put a brake on it.

Now you did type BRAKE right? Those brakes cause problems for guides and hunters! There is just to much BOOOOOOOOM period.

I just took off a muzzle brake that was installed to work up loads with at the bench. However, it will never be on the rifle when I hunt. A 22 inch factory model 70 .458 Winchester magnum. I'll never go any shorter either.

I know.. thats what ear plugs are for. Even without a brake you should always wear plugs..unless your being charged by bear.... my hearing is more important than a trophy. You can get a cheap pair of sound amplifiers/ear plugs for 50 bucks

Phil - really nice 'tacti-kool' touch to your .458WM, what with that under barrel flash lite. Ever have to use it? On four (4) legged animals, I mean...Regards, Homesteader.

Yes I do now days use those Walker game ear hearing devices but my hearing is already down to 30% in the left and 50% in the right ear. Years ago their were no such hearing devices to cut down on noise and I sure as heck was not going to stick ear plugs in my ears with a bear somewhere in front of me that I could not see nor hear.

On my first triop to Africa I hunted with Craigh Hammon. He was using a 458 Lott on a Win 70 action with a 19" bull barrel. It weighed about 12# and sat right in your hand for off hand shooting. Craigh didn't worry about velocity. It worked just fine for elephant as it was. I guess they couldn't tell the difference in velocity.

Phil,

Is that the 458 with a Brockman pop-up peep?

If so, how well has that sight held up?

I'm curious, I had Jim make up a couple sets of them for stainless Talley bases to go on my M70s, but none of the calibers are heavy kickers.

I have been thinking about putting one on a big bore.

Finn was right....a .458, 500 grain bullet at 2000fps makes a bloody big hole in anything it hits. By the way, so does a 450 or 400 grain for that matter.

John

I have a new winchester safari, barrel was cut back to 21",I get just shy of 2600fps with the 350gr X, and 2387fps with the 400gr X.The 458 does very well in barrels from 20"-22"

Those loads are great in the .458 and will kill 'cleanly" all but a very very few animals in this world. I always liked the 400gn X bullet. After it was discontinued, I went to the 350 TSX for general hunting and the 450 TSX for heavier or dangerous game.

John

I feel this is one of the best looking .458s I have ever seen! I have liked it since I saw it in Rifle Magazine 5-6 years ago. IIRC it was on the cover. perfect finishes are nice to look at, but real working rifle always pique my interest.

There was series of articles in "Precision Shooter" about 20 years ago about some experiments done in a climate controlled warehouse in Texas by some diehard benchrest guys. This thing was 1400 feet long and they could shoot from a 700# concrete rest. One of the things they found out was that shorter barrels gave better accuracy. IIRC 20.5" was ideal. I'm sure someone else remembers the articles.
A friend cut back the barrel on my 450 Dakota and just by chance it came out to 20.5". It shoots everything to one 3" spot except Hornaday solids. Doesn't matter about the powder,charge or bullet except for Hornaday. The groups themselves are one hole groups with almost everything.


That certainly is a handsome rifle.All business!

Aussie you try any of those 450 grain bullets? I really like the .450 grain for my model 70 .458 and my .458-Lott.

Not yet. I have a couple of loads in the 2350fps range with a few more to test. So far they are proving very accurate and at those velocities would serve as an allround load.

John

I have a model 70 Win. .458-mag in the vault in the 22 inch barrel. It is very easy to handle and with those 400 or 450 grain bullets it makes for one heck of a killing machine. I have also killed hogs with those Hornady XTP 350 grain bullets and it stops them in their tracks! Now I am speaking of 300 pound porkers, simply backs em up on their hunches when hit in the front chest or head.

I have a 18inch 458WM in a ruger #1... It's awesome. A real brush gun that burns any brushes in front of it. Working on a 16inch barrel now.

That rifle even has a name, "Ole Ugly" IIRC.

But, as Forest Gump said, "Pretty is as pretty does." So, from that perspective, Ole Ugly is an attractive lass...

DF

WOW....HUH, whats that? , sounds like a helluva boomer

the 458 Winchester has such a huge bore volume in relation to the amount of powder burned, that I'd not be concerned over any efficiency loss with a shorter barrel. If it were a mega magnum case holding a ton of powder with a tiny bore, concerns over efficiency loss with a short barrel would then be valid.

Agreed, high expansion ration with the 458WM, I wouldnt be as concerned for velocity loss as I would be the custom eyebrow trimming from the muzzle.

Gunner

Maybe the 458 will be included at this website one day:

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/index.html

I have a rather unusual 458WinMag. It is on an 03 A3 action. Custom stock. Seems to be birch nicely checkered with schnabel foreend. Trigger guard has been neatly reshaped and floorplate release is a large button. Action screws are Allens, Buttplate is a Neidner checkered steel with a matching checkered steel grip cap. Three crossbolts with epoxy filler over top. Timney trigger,Mdl 70 style 2 position safety,Griffin & Howe side mount. Lyman alaskan scope. Bolt handle has been forged and root is marked with Les Womacks distinctive stamp.Rear sight is a Williams fully adjustable wide vee on a short ramp. Front sight is a Lyman banded ramp with a long patridge brass inlay front sight. Front barrel band swivel is a custom one that does not completely encircle the barel. The unusual thing is the barrel is marked A&M Rifle Co., Inc. and is 16 1/2" long. All appears to be original. It is the quickest mounting best handling of all my bigbores. Would have loved to have taken it to Africa. I would assume it was built in the late 50's when Atkinson & Marquardt were building barrels in Prescott. They graduated the year before I did at TSJC. Funny thing is I have 2 16 1/2" barrel rifles with LesWomack forged bolt handles. Both are on 03 actions and both have Griffin & Howe with Lyman Alaskans. The other is an 06 and is in full military configuration except stock is shortened to match the 16 1/2" barrel. Just an unusual pair, both beautifully executed.

My .458 WM Model 70 has a 22" barrel and 500 grain bullets chronograph 2200 fps from it using AA2230 powder.

My African hunting load was 450 grain bullets at 2250 fps.

Someone mentioned 350 grain bullets. I can get 2750 fps with no sweat using H4198 and 350 grain TSXs. According to the computer, that will give you 3000 foot pounds of energy--at 300 yards.

I'm loading 40.7 grs of IMR4198 under a 300gr Hornady hollow point to shoot in the short barrel. Very accurate and recoil is manageable with a Past shoulder pad.Have only the book speed as I don't have a chronograph. Just wanted to shoot something in it that wasn't TOO punishing.

The .458 is a lot of fun to play with and awfully adequate if you really need it.