I hear all kinds of AI talk on here in about every caliber....except the real kahuna of the AI tribe....

I know all these blown out 375's are similar but I want to hear from guys who have used this one......loads, velocites, etc.?


Any 375 AI users? Where are you?

Let's hear about it!

I run a 375 Wby which is pretty much the same thing, it's a heck of a Yote rifle..grin

Friend of mine from Boise ran one for a long time as his Yote rig. (He's an absolute killing machine, I doubt he's ever been on a puter and yet he kills more big critters of all kinds pretty much like Scenar and Greenie)

Dober

Side note, I've had my 3-10 Leo w/M1 on board and it's a elk killing machine as well..

I had one made up back in the early 70's by Floyd Butler. Its on a Sako L61R as I did not know about CRF back then. I had the headspace set on the tight side so it can headspace on the shoulder when FL sized.

I don't think I reached any special velocities with jacketed bullets. The data may be somewhere. Back then I was into cast bullets for both targets and hunting. I shot some poor deer with it up close with a hollow point gas check bullet cast from linotype. Its MV may have been about 2000 fps. The bullet made an exit and the deer fell there.

Overall the rifle kicked too hard and is too heavy for Eastern hunting. It sits in the safe along with a pre 64 M70 standard H&H.

I am not into the so called improved cartridges these days but to each his own. If some guy wants to make one work then fine.

I did shake Lysle Kilbourn's hand if that counts!

Savage: Floyd Butler was the smith Ken Waters had do some work....from NY state,correct?

From what I have seen the cartridge builds some impressive vels over the 375H&H....

Dober: I know a couple of Boise folks who have run the AI and the velocities are right up there.....so is the recoil.I can imagine it's an elk killing machine...

Yeah some where along the way of H&H to the Wby it do become a bit cheekier.

One of these days I might put the old 3-10 M/1 back on it and sanction an elk on the moon...grin

Dober

How much faster will an AI version of a 375 H&H shoot?

How much more will it recoil?

I'll guess - it will be about 5% faster, and it'll hit back with about 25% more recoil.

Anyone? Anyone?

Mine gets an easy 100 Brian, what I like most about the improved cases are they don't need much trimming and I don't have to lean on a standard round to get to so and so speed. If that makes sense..?

Recoil, not sure how to put it but a top end H&H load is comfy and then some a top end Bee/AI load gets a bit caustic at times.

Dober

Mine do shoot the 235 TSX very well, but it do have the BC of a jelly bean..grin

Would like to shoot some of the new 250 TTSX's thru mine, that would be a super bullet I feel.

Dober

That's why I wonder about whether to do it - or not.

It seems to me that getting 100 extra feet per second if it means getting belted with say, 20 to 25 % more recoil isn't going to be worth it - maybe even more with a 375 AI - than with lessor calibers.

Still, I understand the appeal - and one can always load an "improved" version down, so flexibility could, arguably, be enhanced.

There's no doubt the round would look "cooler" - but I wonder if it would feed just as slickly as it does now? Right now, I shoot my 375 H&H well, but, if it recoiled more, I don't know at what point I might stop enjoying shooting it. For now, I think I'll leave well enough, alone.

If I did it again, I'd go with a bit less tube, cut it to 23" and go with a 6x36 w/dotz or a 6x36 with M1 on top.

Bottom line, I'd forgo the speed and set up my scope to deal with it.

I'd prefer it to be 8lbs give or take a skosh and AI'd or Bee'd and it'll be a pain 4 me!

Dober

Dober/ Brian: We had one back here that was built by one of the Idaho boys;but ownership traded back and forth between friends here and in Idaho, so I got to monkey with it.

It was built on a pre 64 H&H action,IIRC 23" SS Krieger twisted 10",and Brown stock...can't recall exact weight but with 4X Leupold I doubt it was much over 8-8 1/4 pounds.

It was dubbed "THOR" ...

I recall being at the range with a couple of friends and we chronographed the 275 Bitterroot at 2940 or thereabouts; or about what I have been getting for years with the 250 gr BBC from the standard H&H.

I never have seen it measured, but the cartridge would do 3100 or better with the 250 BBC according to friends....

The AI version could also take heavy charges of slow burning powder that just would not fit into the standard case.

So what it seemed we had was a cartridge that beat the standard H&H by about 150 fps with 250's and 275's....but this is why guys built it if they were using BBC's which could withstand as much vel as you could give them,and even behaved somewhat better, expanded more fully, with more velocity and more twist. They wanted max vels with the 275 gr bullets.

After dorking around with it I stuck to the standard case and used the 250's at 2900,which are good for anything here....it was more manageable than the AI version.

And yes it kicked alright;manageable,but it certainly recoiled.

If a guy has a favorite 375 I would not rechamber myself......I'd get a second rifle and punch it out.....don't mess with what works.

I am not sure it makes much sense today with the 375 RUM around,but that doesn't mean it isn't still good.

Bob, I have a rechambered M-70 classic stainless w/ the 24" barrel and I have developed a few loads in mine, all are .5 to 1.25" loads in calm conditions.

300 gn SAF 2900 fps w/ N-205....discontinued powder
300 gn SAF and Np's 2800 fps w/ N-204...available
270 gn TSX 2980 fps W/ N-204

Been wanting to try RL-17 with the 270 TSX'x and the new 250 TTSX bullets, it may be a real dark horse and give very high vels.

Gunner

"Thor" sounds about model perfecto to me! I had "Thunder", my 8.25 pound 700/340 with a 3-10 Leo on top. With the 250's and 275's it could be a bit feisty..grin

Thor is to me the ultimate big bore for me which of course is actually a mid bore and one heck of a yote rig! If'n I can't do it with a 375 then it aint been hatched yet.

Dober

gunner I do recall that N205 was very good in the Improved 375....old article in Rifle, as I recall....and your vels are about spot on...

I never saw what the 300 gr could do,but recall that the 270 gr got to 3000 (Whew!).That is smokin!I do think RL17 would be good with either.....from the sounds of things R17 might not be a whole lot different from the old H205....which means it'll work well in the standard H&H as well...


DOBER: You would have LOVED Thor! Killed on one end, and maimed on the other!

I opted for the Bee reamer over the AI when re-chambering time came. Just did it because factory Wby (Norma) brass is available. Call me lazy.

I named it Whomper.

From a 26" barrel, 250 SGK's over H414 go 3060 fps with a little room to spare. 300 Hornadys over 4350 hit 2800+ fps.

At 8.5 lbs. scoped & loaded it's a brisk ride. You'll definitely notice it's not an H&H. With a Limbsaver pad out back, it's not painful. But it is approaching the limit of what I'd call "fun" to shoot for prolonged sessions on the bench.

The bench doesn't bother me much, it's some of the weird field positions that one finds themselves in from time to time that gets a bit sporting for me.

Dober

My father has one. Tom Burgess built it for him on a Pre-War M70, and George Hoenig stocked it for him. It is an incredible rifle. I wish I had pictures to share... The next time I visit him I will take some pictures.

Link to Floyd Butler threads.

Another Butler link

Dober,



I used to shoot 'yotes with my 416 Rigby loaded with 350gr varmint bullets...just for practice.

I think anyone who wants a 375 AI should just opt for the Weatherby version.

Whitebird, love the see that rifle by Burgess/Hoenig.

Savage thanks for that link.

Yes on the RL-17 Bob, my thought is its burn rate is very close to the 4350's, and in some cases gives a couple hundred feet extra velocity over the 4350's at like pressure levels, may be big fun

Gunner

mine gets a 270 gr. TSX over 79 gr RE15 for about 2750 fps from 21" barrel

I'll have to try RL-17 in my 375 Weatherby. It only has a 22" barrel but gets just over 2700 fps with 300g Nosler Partition factory ammo

Bob, at one time tinkered with a Ruger No. 1, an H&H blown out to the 375 Mashburn. I found eventually, it was just too heavy IMHO, to carry around between shots. But a 300-grainer at close to 2700 fps was pretty authoritative.

It was just another of a fistful of 375 "improved" that all do about the same thing. I liked the concept of power but need a lighter package, one of the motivations that finally resulted in shooting the 340 for years.

George yes, they all do pretty much the same thing..you do see an improvement in velocity no matter how you slice the pie....in truth I think it is pretty tough to tell an AI from a 375 Ruger today....at least from what I can tell.....that Thor rifle gave you light weight,but it rocked pretty good ,too.

I talked to Bill Steigers a few months back;he loved the 375AI,but said if he were doing it over today he would be reaching for the 375RUM,simply because it provided more capacity,and reached the velocities he wanted without having to lean too hard...

My .375 Ruger will run a consistant 2735 fps. with 300 gr.s. in a 9 1/2 lb. gun. That is fast enough for both me and the game.
I use a .375 Hawk at 8.5 lbs with 235's at 2700 for other stuff. The Hawk burns less powder and is more fun to shoot with less recoil.

I just use factory ammo. In my .375 Wby (DGR with 24" bbl), the Nosler factory 260gr AB load averages 2,974 fps chronographed out the muzzle. For apples/apples comparison, the published MV is 3,000 for that load (pretty close to what I get), and 2,750 fps for their factory .375 H&H 260gr AB load. That's about 250 fps faster. The Weatherby factory 300gr NP loads leave my rifle's muzzle at about 2,760 fps. That's about the same as most factory 260gr H&H loads, and about 60 fps faster than the typical factory 270gr H&H loads. Most factory 300gr loads have a MV of around 2,470 fps.

So, the way I see it, something like a .375 Wby will push a 300gr bullet about as fast as, or a little faster than, the H&H will push a 260gr/270gr bullet. I like that. I can't argue that it's necessarily better than an H&H in most situations, but I absolutely destroyed a 9'-2" brown bear with one of those 300gr Partitions at about 97-yds. The bear collapsed less than 25 feet from where he was shot. Though my experience is just annectotal, I wonder if that 300gr bullet moving at the appx 2,530 fps at that range might have worked a little better than the same bullet moving at a decent, but not as violent, 2,255 fps or so at the same range out of an H&H.

MH: There is no doubt that the various improved 375's(the Weatherby among them)move the entire range of 375 bullets faster than a 375H&H,which makes sense because they hold more powder,and I suspect in the case of the Weatherby,is also loaded to much higher pressures as well.....in the aggragate, this stuff adds up..

Do they show a material improvement in terminal performance? I dunno and I think you are already dealing with a pretty potent package with the standard H&H round,fully capable,so it's hard to say.....some would say "yes",but I suspect it has more to do with the bullets used than anything else.I would have to see a lot more animals shot with either one before I came to any firm conclusion myself.

Factory numbers are what they are...but I have seen a couple of brown bears killed with the 375H&H and 300 gr Partitions,and they went no where ...my last one (a 9'2")was killed at about 180 yards with a 250 gr Bitterroot started at 2940 from my 375H&H...(a load I have been using from the 375H&H for about 30 years now) he went no where at all,and exits were pretty impressive).

So, looking at that 260 AB load from the factory 375 Weatherby,it appears we are picking up about 60 fps,and 10 gr of bullet weight...no doubt the spread increases with the heaviest bullets,the larger case clearly having an advantage.

With the Improved versions of the 375, you get higher velocity, increased recoil levels;from a handloading perspective a shift to slower powders may be helpful in the larger case.Beneficial if we are to crunch numbers....I doubt the animals can tell the difference,

I got a couple lbs. of RL-17 and some 270 gn TSX'x, I need to go out to the shop this morning and see what they will run at in my old AI

Gunner

gunner, run it and let us know!

Load report coming up.......WOOOWWW! Bob you aint gonna believe this

Gunner

LMAO! You sound excited! tell us more!

Marine Hawk will be ecstatic!He might even take up handloading...

i'm runnin' RE 17 in my .375 RUM.

90 gr. RE 17 under a 260 NAB yields ~2990 fps at a calculated mild 60K psi from a 23" barrel. 90 gr. seemed like a nice round number

recoil is lively in an 8# rifle, but it shoots ~1 moa.

Bob, see new thread above

Gunner

toad that even sounds lively...

Gunner I will check it out.