Hi all,
I am in the process of developing loads for a 505 Gibbs with Woodleigh 600gr PP.
Data is thin on the ground and what I can find is for very fast (in this case capacity) powders, such as RE15 and Varget. I have tried H4350, RE22 and RE25 with mixed results. I am after ANY sources of loads with modern slower powders in the 2300fps range with 600gr bullets. I realise that these levels will be higher than the original pressure parameters, but it is a modern rifle with modern brass and will handle the increased pressure, as the same basic case is used to make both the 505 and CheyTac hulls.
Thanks in advance guys.

Cheers.

I don't have it handy but Phil Shoemaker had an article on the 505 in the August 1999 issue of Handloader.

Even though RL15, Varget and H-4350 are on the fast side for the case, 600 gr @ 2300 should be no problem with those powders. In my 500 Jeffrey my starting load of 100 gr of RL15 pushed 600gr 2200 fps.

I don't have my loads at hand but had great luck with both Norma MRP and AA 5744.

Gunner500 has one and I'm sure he would share his pet load(s).

Send him a PM.

DF

Buncha fuqkin masochists!!!!

Now, you know you're including your ole black powder, Sharps shooting bud, Gunner500...

DF

When I wuz young (17)and DUMB and fulla come, I fired THREE rounds of 505 Gibbs. Lesson learned!!!!!!!

The 505 is gunner's truck gun.

He needs the firepower for those great big ole Okie 'dillers...

DF

A ten and a half pound 505 Gibbs with the original Kynoch loads pushing a 525 gr bullet at 2150fps ( yes that is what they and virtually all the older English rounds actually chronographed) is not much more punishing than a 458 or 470.

When the 600 Overkill was being developed I thought, oh I gotta have one. Then I got my 500 Jeffrey back from the gunsmith and put together a few starter loads. After lighting off three 600 gr pills over 100 gr RL15 that clocked right at 2200 fps my enthusiasm for something bigger was completely gone.

While I appreciate the wonderful history of the Gibbs, I just can't see burning even more powder in a sporter weight 50. If I was to do a 50 again it would be the 500 A-sq. More than enough in the fuel tank and relatively speaking easy to come by brass.

Guess I'm a wuss...

I traded my .404J after rotator cuff surgery...

Kept my .375 H&H, both guns, SS M-70 Classic NH actions.

DF

I read the thread title, and said, "Ouch. Ack"

And I'd like to have a moderately lightweight .416 Rigby

One thing about buying a used LW .416R, the barrel should be in good shape...

Gunner's 505G is a rebore of his .416R that he actually shot out. Yeah, you heard that right...

DF

My 24" barreled 505 Gibbs with 145 grs Retumbo under a 600 gr Woodleigh PP bullet will run a very accurate 2450 fps, same/same with 143 grs of the same powder under the 600 gr Woodleigh solid.

I ran these loads to max power to check relative relation between stock bolts and bedding with the walnut, all was good at those velocity/recoil levels.

Subsequent loads are loaded to a more sedate, yet I believe to be as effective 2150 fps, good luck, she's a helluva round.

, hey, that was our little secret.

Out of the closet now...

Thanks to all that replied. I am having internet problems here in Australia.
Currently, I have tried RE22, RE25, H1000, H4350 and RE15, RE15 was no good without filler being used.
I have Retumbo on hand, so I will give that a try next. My rifle is a CZ 550 custom shop rifle with a mercury recoil reducer, recoil is stiffer than my 500 Nitro double, but that rifle is a few pounds heavier and only pushes 570gr pills to close on 2200fps.
I have pushed 600gr PP's above 2350fps in the 505, but a visit to the dentist may be in order if I shoot 15-20 of those off in a session!
Thanks again Gunner500.

Cheers.

You're welcome 416RH.

My favorite buffalo hunting round is a 525 grain TSX over 145 grains of RL-25. It is a bit more accurate over 145.5 grains of powder, but that is moving faster than I need and gives a huge muzzle flash. Out of my Ruger they will shoot a 3 shot group with all the holes touching at 50 yards. And it shoots within about 3" of that POI at 100 yards... I would not be afraid to shoot PG, or a follow up (not that is has been needed, so far) on a buff at 200 and expect to hit on target, with some force.

I actually don't hand load but have a buddy making these for me. There are probably better powders out there, and I think there is some filler used.

Found a used (well sold as used, but not very!) and very fancy CZ 550 in the 505 Gibbs and ended up owning it. Had to send it back for action/magazine work... Probably should have sprung for the AHR upgrade? Then ended up with a customized Ruger RSM in the same cartridge (rebored from a 416 Rigby). I've hunted in Africa with both, and I can tell you there is no recoil when shooting at big dangerous critters!

Hey Bob - great to see you here!

Are you saying you can tell the difference between 145 and 145.5gr of powder in the 505??

Tim

My .500 A2 will approach 2500 fps with 600 grain bullets, so I'd think the larger Gibbs cartridge will do something over 2600 fps with the right load. In my view, there is a very different experience shooting the 570 or 600 grain bullets at 2250 fps and at 2450 fps. That extra 200 fps adds a sharp edge to the existing very significant recoil. Since a solid pushed to 2250 fps from a .50 caliber rifle will kill any elephant on Earth from any reasonable angle, I think the only application where more velocity might be helpful is with soft points on cape buffalo, etc. Bear in mind that the Woodleigh bullets are designed for the classic .500 NE and .505 Gibbs loads at the standard factory velocity. Pushing those bullets another 400 fps faster is using them totally outside of their design parameters, so you're really on your own. If you do want fast soft points, then use GS Customs, Barnes, or CEB, etc.

BTW, the best all around powder for these big low expansion ratio cases is quite possibly H335, with Federal 215 magnum primers, of course. It's very predictable from a pressure standpoint and, in general, behaves nicely. I'm sure that you can get a little more velocity from one of the new super powders, but I think that falls into the "why bother" category. Shooting the 570 grain bullet at 2500 fps means you really have to watch where you put your feet when you squeeze the trigger. If you're the least bit off balance, you'll certainly know it.

There are other reasons why the slow powders can be less desirable in big bores. Here's my A2 pushing about 120 grains of IMR 4350 down a 23" barrel.

Another Hannibal owner eh? Good rifles. I like my .500 too.

Hello, I use mid range powders almost exclusively in my 505. RL15, 2520, 8208, Varget. Mostly with 525's but also with 600's. 5/8" backer rod (closed cell foam) filler.

Hi all,
OK, just a quick update, I have settled on 148gr of Retumbo with the 600gr Woodleigh PP, am yet to get my hands on some solids in that weight.
Unfortunately, my chrony stopped working at 146gr, one round at that weight registered 2284fps, I then proceeded to 148gr but the chrony didn't register any of the 3 shots.
I was a little taken aback, the velocities with this powder were quite a bit slower than I expected, the 140gr load only registered 1804fps! The primers were also backed out and rounded.
The recoil at 148gr is stiffer than I would like, but the rifle groups so well at this powder weight/velocity.

Thanks again to all those that helped me out, your info was invaluable to me getting this thing shooting right.

Cheers.

Buddy I grew up with is leaving for Zim, end of May, going after Cape Buff. He's shooting his Ruger 77, .416 Rigby, full house off hand at a hundred. He's putting most bullets in a 6" bull, the others, pretty darn close. He'll keep practicing until he leaves. He should do well.

Even as a youngster, he was known to be quite a marksman. Once a neighborhood dog came up crippled, had been shot. The owners accused this young lad of shooting their dog. Lady across the street let them know this boy didn't shoot their dog. Asked how she knew, she replied, if this boy shot your dog, it'd be dead...

Sorta sums him up...

DF

Hey all,
I measured my twist in this rifle, 5 passes told me that it has a 1:10.25" twist rate.

Do you think this fast twist could be causing my low velocities with Retumbo, or is it something unrelated?

I don't recall being asked what twist rate I wanted when I ordered this rifle, just that it was cut rifled and rust blued.

Cheers.

Twist rate will not affect velocity, that is a repeated false hood. I have a friend that works in a ballistics lab and they have tested the same load from a 14 twist to a 7 twist and it doesn't influence pressure or speed.

416,

I need my ass kicked for quoting my load info [WITHOUT] referencing my load book, my 505 Gibbs loads are made up using H-4831 short cut powder, not Retumbo.

If you'll substitute Retumbo with H-4831 the speeds you seek will be there.

Very sorry for the fu-k up.

Gunner

Thanks Gunner, no problem with your mistake.
H4831sc is the only powder I haven't tried.
H1000 was very promising, but I ran out of it just after load testing.
RE22 is another good one, but recoil is sharp and not pleasant for me, even with a shooting pad on.
I fired 6 rounds last Thursday trying to get good chrony info @ 148gr of Retumbo and my chrony just doesn't like this cartridge, I kept getting error2 readings, then the final shot registered 2100fps, almost 200fps slower than the last velocity reading with 146gr. I am confused!

Anyways, I will persist with it, I have a big bore shoot this coming weekend and will use up what rounds I have left for it.

Cheers.

416RH, Thanks just the same, but i messed up big time, I safely ran those 600 gr Woodleighs upwards of 2465 fps with the H-4831 powder, no over pressure problems at all in my rifle.

My loads now run 2150 fps, I gotta believe that's plenty for any game animal worldwide, my 505 is relegated to the excellent iron sights that came on the gun, I'll only use it for very big animals up close, it has killed two scoped in the past.

Your chrono is most likely giving you fits from the massive gas wave from burning 145+ grains of powder, I chronoed my 505 from 25' back, works just fine, make sure your not shooting next to a structure, or under a low roof, the gas has nowhere to go but straight into the machine if confined, also check that you have a good hot battery too.

Gunner

Gunner,
I got 2550fps with H4350 and those 600gr Woodleighs, but the recoil is way past my threshold. I would have to practice every day at that level and I doubt I would ever get accustomed to it.
I was happy at 2300fps, so I assume it's my chrony that's giving false info.

The battery was brand new 2 tests ago, so it should still be highly charged.
I will test again this weekend and see how I go.
I would like to re-test H1000, as the recoil was tolerable. This rifle kicks much more than my double in 500 Nitro, but it does only weigh just over 9.5 lbs with mercury recoil reducer installed. It's a bit light for me I think.

Cheers.

Okay, I see, thought you were never able to get the speeds you wanted, thought it was due to my bogus Retumbo load data.

Thanks Gunner, I had a big bore shoot again this past weekend.
I managed to run the 148gr of Retumbo, it was clocking 2380fps, so a 145gr load should be somewhere around 2150-2200fps.
I also re-tried RE22 @ 144gr, the recoil was mind numbing and a fellow shooter wanted to try it and regretted it for a week. He had a concussion headache for this past week.
I think I will have to drop my charges, this rifle is way too light for these speeds, just too snappy.

Anyway, thanks again to those that helped me out, it's all falling into place, albeit slowly.

Cheers.

Follow up on Zim buff. Just got i-phone photos, no details other than 41.5" and he used the Ruger/Rigby. He's happy.

DF

Nice bull!

He was happy with it. It is 41.5"; he said folks start gettting happy at 42". I get the feeling he's "happy" at 41.5"...

This probably should have been posted on the Africa forum, but because I had aready posted here about him and his .416 Rigby relative to shooting big guns like the .505 Gibbs, I posted it here.

His message to me under the first photo was, "Only hard men with Rigby rifles stalk the veldt in Zimbabwe".

My reply: "Bad looking buff, bad looking dude".

Think that about sums it up.

DF

Nice, congrats to your buddy, bet the old Rigby didn't leave him lacking, what bullet?

42" is a great buffalo,but I would be happy with either one of these two bulls...

400's, not sure what kind.

I know he had solids for back up.

Will get the gory details later and when I do, I'll post.

Said he "hunted hard and close, earned the buff".

Great symmetry, no broken points, good bit of drop and back sweep, good boss.

He's getting it mounted in Lake Charles by a guy who specializes in African stuff.

Shoulder mount, feet for book ends, tail for "fly swat while sippin' mint julips on the veranda".

DF

Yep, I agree.

Old battle scarred warriors.

Too cool.

Like Capstick or maybe Ruark said, looking at you like you owe him money...

DF

Yup,Ruark wrote that.

Couldn't remember which, but that thought came to me seeing those two old bulls you posted.

DF

Some day,I'll be lookin' at one with a rifle in my hands.

With a safe full of candidates, which rifle?

DF

Either my .460 Wby or .450 Howell.

And for the second rifle,either a .375 H&H or the .375 RUM.

Can't judge those guns by how they penetrate on NM jackwabbits.

DF

True,but I don't own a 6.5 creedmoor or .223 ai.

How do you hang here on the Fire, with no .223 AI or 6.5 CM?

That's gotta be tough...😳

DF

Not tough at all,I'm a azzhole.

Nah...

Think you're over selling yourself...

😇

DF

Nope,just being myself.

400 gr. TSX, solids in the mag. One shot at 25 yds in heavy brush, hit just behind diaphragm, left side, 50+ inches of penetration to off side shoulder. Recovered bullet, .82 cal. expansion, all petals intact for photo finish (bullet at least). Hornady brass, Fed 210 Match primer, 100 gr. H-4831sc.

Buff down in 30 yds. PH tracked him too soon, he got back up, he and PH entered heavy brush, their .416's at the ready, only to find a dead buff. Final comment, "that buff was one tough SOB".

"Never asked to slow up, never asked tracker to carry Rigby, a true hunt, not an old man hunt."

"Rode 70-80 miles on bad trails, 5-8 miles stalking, up at 4:30, down at 8:30".

I'm not that tough. Although just a few years my junior, he's fit. Thus, his comment,
"Only hard men stalk the veldt".

Can't argue with that.

DF

I realized I hijacked the .505 Gibbs post, am moving thread to the Africa Forum.

Sorry about that.

DF

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