Would it be dumb to do a custom LR build with a stevens 200 action???? Thinking 300 WM or .308.... Alot of the savage model 110 parts will work right?

It would be beyond dumb, but it's your money. Of all of the platforms to do a build on, why pick that one?

R.

Thanks for the laugh.

I'm building a LR hunter on a sevens 200 action. Actually, its the fire form rifle for my rem700 TMR is building for me.

I'll get a chance to shoot them side by side in a few months and report back to you.

The current F class champion team is team savage. Many will sneer, few will shoot better.

I have more expensive guns, purpose build to play tactical games or hunting. But dollar for dollar, the Savage stagger feed (same action as the stevens 200) is hard to beat.

Team Savage has been spanking the competition for a coupla years now.

Nearly all Savage parts will work on your Stevens.

Is your Stevens the older staggerfeed or the newer centerfeed?

There are more stock choices for the staggerfeed.

Good luck with your build.

Was speaking with a local guy I know... retired real estate guy..

He likes to play a lot with lead cast bullets in all sorts of calibers, especially odd ball stuff..

He typically plays with Stevens 200s, basically because they are cheap, and being an hobby machinist, he does most of his stuff at home..

Ben just had picked up one of the Savage Edges from Walmart recently, trying it strictly for the price...

He got one in a 308.... and has said he swapped a couple of barrels on it before he even shot the 308 barrel, just to see how the action compared with the 200..

He was indicating that the way the action is, he said the Edge was even better to do barrel changes on, because the action turned out to be much stiffer...

The 308 barrel he was shooting today was doing 200 grain Lead Cast bullets with a gas check at about 1900 fps... surprisingly they did a pretty good job at 100 yds...

after he wrapped up, he was over to a gunsmith buddy tho to tweek the trigger...

who'd a thunk it?

some folks are pretty comfortable with a gun that shoots good, you can bang it around, and not worry about it..

or play with it where you can swap barrels around all summer and then come fall hunting season, find a buyer for it for $150 to $175... so it only cost ya $75 to $100 to burn a barrel all summer...

Building a LR custom is not cheap, why start with the cheapest action.

It gets a lot cheaper when you can buy prefit barrels and put them on yourself without paying a gunsmith.

What's your smith charge to re and re a barrel?

R.

I might be jumping to conclusions here but from the question in in his post I don't get the impression that wyohunter99 will be doing much of the work himself.

No special talent needed to change barrels on a Savage.

My 7 year old can do it.

Don't know since I thread, chamber and fit my own barrels.

Nothing wrong with the Savage action. Changing a Savage barrel takes about as much time as changing a tire and only a little more skill.

Nice! My point being, for those of us that pay, it's not a whole pile of cash...


R.

Even a prethreaded and short chambered barrel will require more cash than a prefit Savage since the chamber is done and the shoulder is movable on the Savage.

Can't force myself to drink the Salvage cool-aid.

R.

They are far from the best looking action there is (downright ugly actually) but they are easy to work on, inherently accurate, inexpensive, and available.

They also have a fast locktime and there are plenty of aftermarket parts available.

then dont, its your loss.

they are good value for the money. not the best, but good enough to work.

It's not my loss at all, as I don't feel the need to drag junk out into the field. There are lots of better rifles to be had, both new and used, for the same amount of money. For my dollars invested, I would rather buy used good stuff, instead of new crap. It is less expensive that way, as I am only buying once. As far as the "not the best, but good enough to work" comment, if this were true, we would all field Mossy ATRS with Barska scopes. Why not, as they "work".
There always seems to be the need to pump up garbage as being superior to quality goods, citing price vs performance. A fella drinks some kool-aid, and drops some dough on a cheap rilfe, and runs some factory ammo out of it, and it shoots well, for the money, and all of sudden its a fantastic piece of kit that keeps up to full custom rigs?
Why would one back a design that is based around cost to build, and nothing more? I find that they are somewhat accurate, to be one the greatest manufacturing accidents of all time, as they sure as hell didn't start out that way.
Each to his own, and anyone can purchase whathever the hell they want with thier dough, but don't tell me that cheap junk is better than quality goods, just because it's cheap.

R.

Based on what measure? For accuracy, Savage is the best $$ for $$.

So if accurate rifle is the measure, you are probably dragging junk into the field if its not a Savage. Never owned one, I'll bet.

BTW, show me a better rifle, new or used, for the money.

I'll check back often, 'cuase this will take you a while.....

The Savage or Stevens action will make a low cost and very accurate platform to build on. Most fella's that bash them either haven't had the experience with one or are pissed off that a $1000 Savage can out shoot there $2500+ full custom build.
I've built a 6mm BR, 308 Win and a 300 Win mag off either a Stevens or Savage action and they just flat shoot! Plus it's a big bonus being able to do the work yourself.

Hilarious stuff.

You have your opinion and certainly ostracize the counter point quite vigorously. Bringing in the buzz words of kool-aid, cheap, junk, etc.

For my criteria, an old left hand "salvage" 30-06 factory, a douglas 30-06 barrel (used), a stock built in the back yard, and a burris FFII and I was into an long range (400-600 yard) gun that did all I needed quite "cheaply".

Not sure what criteria the OP has for long range, but you're opinion on the matter doesn't mean it can't be done economically.

I understand you wouldn't do it, but that doesn't mean it won't work...


Edit to add:

The only reason I got rid of my savage is that I spent so much time swapping barrels and working up new loads from 300WM, 30-06 and 308, that I wasn't spending enough time hunting. Seems I can't control myself when it comes to tinkering. My next bolt gun will be "fiddle proof" I hope.

Hey DW you kind of lost me with the part of the "fire form rifle for you 700" bit?

Dober

Why should anyone give a damn about what someone else likes to shoot?

David, the fact that you site accuracy $$ for $$ as you quailifier is my point. Go find the cheapest pile of junk you can find, and shoot it. It will be "x-brand is the most accurate for money spent", will it not?

Accuracy is not the only measure, but it seems to be one people default to. Design, quality of materials, fit and finish, asthetics, handling characteristics, and price, are things we all look for in a rifle. As we are all individuals, we are willing to focus more on some, and not so much on others.

I haved owned several Salvages. The rest of the rifles in my safe had a revolt, and threw them out.

Rem 700's, Howa's, Vanguards, Model 70's, hell, if you wait long enough, you can find practically anything used for the same price as a new Salvage. The fact that you site the money again is my point. That the rifle is cheap (not less exspensive), and performs well, for it's price, does not make it better.

R.

I got a big kick of of a Canadian's build shown on 6mmBR.com
He selected the Savage-made Stevens 200

His goal:

"I wanted to see if I could build a rifle with match-grade accuracy (1/4-MOA or better at short range and sub-MOA way out there) without spending a small fortune. This dictated using readily-available commercial products where possible. I wanted an economical, commercial action that could shoot accurately without a lot of expensive trueing or tuning. And I wanted there to be quality aftermarket parts (bases, triggers, and stocks) for this action."

"6.5 "Mystic" Barrel Block F-Classer
Jerry Teo's Stevens-Actioned 6.5-08 AI Showcases New Design Ideas
Other Guns of the Week >
Canadian shooter Jerry Teo has created an innovative rifle system that delivers very impressive accuracy (one-ragged-hole groups at 200 yards), with economical components. Using interchangeable block-equipped barreled actions, he can switch calibers in under a minute, with just a wrench. Jerry's radical rig has proven itself in its first F-Class competition at 345 yards (300m), delivering a 749-61X, out of a total possible score of 750-75X. We're proud to showcase the efforts of a creative home-builder, whose entire gun, including optics, costs about what you'd pay for a premium custom action with rings, trigger guard and scope rail."

Some of his ideas are great! It may be a little funky looking but he met his goal. Link for entire story: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek075.html

My opinion is mine, but well founded in fact. Long range shooting is not a cheap sport. The more competitive you get, either with yourself, or others, the more exspensive it gets. I happen to be quite competitive, and want to do the best I can. There are lots of examples of people doing all of sorts of silly things with their money, both in the shooting world and out of it. The examples out of it make more sense. Why would a guy spend thousands and thousands of dollars customizing a piece of crap car, when he could have spent that money on a better car? Does a resonably good golfer play with the cheapest clubs he can find? I like this one the best, as it is the closest example to what we are speaking about. A good golfer, can play a round with cheap clubs. They work, and he scores a 96. Not bad for money! Now he plays the same round with better clubs, and scores an 88. A pro plays, with the best that is availble, and scores a 68. The good guy plays with the pro's clubs, and scores an 83. It's all relative, and at a point, spending money has diminishing returns.

Shooting is a precision sport. It is about putting the bullet exactly at the point aim, not getting it close. Getting something to mearly work, as opposed to getting it to perform, is not a criteria I would apply to much of anything, but everyone has to start somewhere. It's a shame to see a decent shooter invest in all sorts of equipment up front, that may handcuff them on the back. By invest, I mean both time and money.
With regards to the OP, will it work? Of course it will. Will it perform? Not as well as something better, for not a significant increase in price.

R.

A fellow on Predatormasters firearms forums, "Ugly Savages" doesnt seem to think it was a bad idea, Not like getting into a snowball fight with pitcher Randy Johnson, he shows a couple of very nice rigs on the Stevens action, They work, go for it.

Jerry is an interesting guy and makes his living selling stuff. I will refrain on commenting regarding the quality of his goods and price point that he sets towards his target market. He also spent a significant amount of time and money getting that rilfe to shoot. So much, in fact, that if those costs were factored into the build price, he would have not met his own critria. Anything is possible, if you get out you wallet. There really isn't any way around it.

R.

Savages are kind of like a not so good looking women, fun to play with but you wouldn't want your friends to see you with one.

Don't do it the Savage action is a turd. LOL Build on a rem 700..

Dober,

TMR is building me a Rem 700 SA in 243 ai in a manner's T1 with badger bottom metal for tactical matches

I'm building a Savage in 243 ai for fireforming brass. I hope to develop an accurate fire forming load, and wack varmints as part of the exercise.

I'm into the savage for under $500 all up. We'll see how she shoots

David, how did make out on your reamer?

R.

TMR has one and he's doing both barrels.

So you're gonna fire form rounds in one gun to use in another David?

Dober

I'm just curious - WHY did you throw out all your Savages (or why did your other rifles revolt?)
You write they are "junk" and "crap". on what is this based?

I have shot a couple Savages (not long range) and they shot great!

My impression is that the Savage guns (or just the actions) are, indeed ugly. That is probably why I picked a different gun when I bought my varminter several years ago - I just didn't want a boring Savage. when I buy my next gun - it WILL be a savage (or a 6mmBR based on Savage). Why, because I am not overly concerned that I'm with the prettiest girl in the crowd. I want a woman who will cook, clean, do the laundry, take great care of the kid(s)... and do it all extremely well - she maybe not cook as well as Emeril or clean like Mr Clean or do laundry like Billy Mays and his oxyclean, and isn't SuperNanny; but I can't afford all of them to come to my house) - and if I could fine ONE woman to do all that she would either be way out of my league -or even uglier than a Savage .

BTW, I AM married to the prettiest girl around in real life
and yes, she cooks, cleans, launders and is the best stay-at-home mommy in the world!

Mark, I think I know your concerns, but I have done this before. Both chambers were cut with the same reamer, by the same guy, back to back. It has worked well for me, and I am only slightly neck sizing brass, as I normally would. Is there anything missed?

R.

Dober

What rman said. Plus, with the savage I can headspace off of a fired rem round to get the chambers exact.

Pretty rifles don't like to hang out with ugly ones, so in order to prevent an uprising, I removed the ugly from the situation.

It is my opinion that they are a cheap rifle with a design that is based on bringing a rilfe to market with the lowest possible price. They are built the way they are for that reason, and that reson only, nothing else. The fact that they "shoot well for the price" is a testement as to how much money can be spent on polishing a turd. Like I said, anything is possible, when you get your wallet out. These are my findings based on the experiences I have had, with rilfes I have owned.

R.

"BTW, show me a better rifle, new or used, for the money."

I think that the Marlin XL/XS-7 is a better rifle than either the Savage Edge/Axis or Stevens 200 in terms of stock ergs and trigger for approximately the same $$. I think that it has a better stock design than the Savage 111/11FNS, the Savage rifle that it is most like, for about $100 less. For <$300, I don't know how you could do better in a new CF bolt gun than the Marlins.

That said, the Savage 110 series has been around for over 50 years, so there are lots of Savage after-market parts available. I think that Marlin could knock Savage/Stevens out of the <$300 retail CF bolt gun market if they would expend the cartridges being offered to include quick twist 223s and 22-250s in the XS-7 and the 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag in the XL-7.

JEff

One can't discount team savage, but one also has to wonder how many guns they had to pick from... Much like Ruger thinking their actions were good enough for Palma and building palma guns for the US team and finding that 2 of the 12 IIRC< were good enough in the end.

The bottom line to this, is if it shoots good enough, then the platform is good enough and personally I could care less what folks use. OTOH the 700s and the better clones and the better BR actions are PROVEN to be able to do the job... on the front side its probably cheaper in the long run to build off a proven action.. much like a douglas barrel MIGHT be good enough, but we know a Krieger will be....

Sounds like it depends on who you listen to
You could have a very good gun using a stevens action. THere are A LOT of folks who have used them and continue to use them.
Or you can spend more $$ and still have a very nice custom LR rifle - and it will look nicer too.

maybe it comes down to: it depends on what your priorities are.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but exactly the same thing can be said about the Remington 700 and everything else Remington has designed/produced in the past 70 years or so.

beauty never trumps accuracy IMHO. That being said you often need to specify your own accuracy goals first, and at what distances and then folks can say, get after it OR you'll mostly only get there with 4000 bucks etc.....

Had I to bet, I'd bet that a 200 and a new barrel won't shoot in the zeros at 100, but done correctly the right action and barrel will.

Where your need falls makes a big difference. Too many ifs ands or buts

Square the rear of the lugs with the bolt face, square the lug abutments in the receiver and the front of the receiver and given equal qualty barrels I see no reason whatever why the Savage action wouldn't shoot right with a 700.

I wouldn't bet on the 700 to shoot in the zeros or ones either actually unless hundreds were spent truing it... hence the other posters point of starting with what you need. Again its all dependant on needs.

Savages have "floating lugs" that allow the round to enter the chamber stress free. Some call it cost cutting. I call it ingenious.

Squaring the front of the action might work, though. Most of my Savages shoot so darn well, I never get around to mucking with the action too much.

Like a Glock, but more better!

as for accuracy of rifles using a savage action.

the year end aggregate award for best group and score averages over 10 matches is awarded each year at the original 1000 yd. benchrest club at williamsport pa. that award has gone to shooters using rifles built on left hand 110 savage actions 3 times. twice by the same shooter, lowell amand of lititz pa.
and by j. bradley also from lititz pa.

Holy cow!!!!!!!! Didnt mean to start the whole "Chevy vs Ford" debate..... Which Chevy is definitely the winner I could care less how a rifle looks as long as is feels and shoots right.
I am just weighing different options. Thanks for the replys guys..

well, if you're a Chevy guy...
You probably should go with a custom BR action since it is obvious you want the BEST

It's kinda more like Chevy vs Yugo, or Ford vs Lada, but I think you got the gist of it.

R.

Thats interesting, I was not aware of that trend since I dropped PS when I quit shooting.

Personally, I have no qualms about fugly, its how it shoots in the end. If this is the case in 1000 yard BR, then I expect the savage actioned guns will start showing on the short range BR winners list really quickly then too. That will be interesting to see.

Me... I've never seen a savage not shoot decent from the factory and often sub moa....

+1

And have to add, how can people say a Remington action is so much better, when they are both so similar to each other? Both are built off a piece of tube. The only thing holding Savage back is the nut is ugly, but that is just an opinion.

the barrel nut serves a purpose and serves it well. it can be eliminated and often is when adding a custom barrel.
long range benchrest shooting has become so competetive that few factory actions of any make are currently used.
point is however that opinions for whatever reason are fine.
but facts are facts and based on those alone its best not bet against a savage for accuracy.
personaly i have both remington and savage rifles as well as weatherby and a few customs.
im equally fond of all of them.
i will admitt to a soft spot for savage for 1 reason.
back about 1960 i wanted a left bolt rifle so bad i would have stolen it.
savage offered me one, and none of the rest thought us leftys worthy enough. some still dont.

Well I guess we can put this one to rest I am going to build my first custom on a Savage model 110 action......

yeah!!!!

Take a look at the Montana 1000 yard bench rest site. How many savage actions do you see in the results standings?? Tons of rem 700 or rem 700 clones. These guys are hard core and know good equipment. A couple guys that live local here are mulitple world record holders. Their not shooting savages. Do your self a big favor and start with a quality action and make it a awesome project.If it's rifle you decide not to keep it will be a pain trying to get rid of a custom built on a savage 110 action because most people don't want one.Just trying to save you some grief.

Good job wyohunter99. You made a great choice.

It takes a lot to wade through all the crap that gets spewed here. Most of the guys that have posted here with their opinions don't know much more about long range hunting than what they have read on the internet.

Ignorance is bliss. I'm glad they're happy with their overpriced, precision machined, zero-shooting, bench rest winning, pretty rifles.

I shoot several Savage actions. I don't care that they are not a copy of a Remington. I don't care if you think it's ugly. I don't care if you think it's junk. It probably won't ever win a bench rest competition either.

It does what I want it to and it does it very well.

Montana? Bench rest capital of the known universe?

My reservations with Savage have always been the cheap finish work on the metal, and their stocks. Those two things are easily remedied though. The accuracy potential was never a question.

That is exactly how I feel about the Remington 700. At least Savage doesn't pretend to be a premium rifle, and price accordingly. Besides, most of the reports I read about Savage 110-based rifles in general and the Stevens 200 in particular talk about sub-MOA groups out of the box, not after spending lots of money. Most people who buy them for precision shooting seem to just knock the sharp edges off the stock, work on the trigger a bit, and are then happy.

+1 and sometimes it isn't even the $1,000.00 savage that outshoots it. It may be the $300.00 stevens 200 that will . They're ugly as sin, but shoot like nobody's business. Nuf said.

The only thing I like about Remington is the vast array of aftermarket items for them. Other than that, they are just another bolt gun. People act like a bolt gun is some hot new, complicated technology for some reason...

wyohunter99,

So often I read posts by folks who speak from predjudice or shear ignorance.

A few years ago I did exactly what you are talking about. At the same time I did one on a Remington 700 action with a custom barrel. The Savage ALWAYS fired groups in the 3's. The Remington never did.

The custom had a Pac-Nor barrel on it. When I told the owner of Pac-Nor he sent his son here, since I am close, with a rifle holdoing devise to prove me wrong. The Savage still shot four 3/8" groups while the custom Remington couldn't come close.

Play with what you like.

By the way I recently had a Savage sorta custom done with a Nitride bath job on the barrel. I am waiting for it to be returned from Joel Kindrick now. It will sport a 5-25X52 Swarovski. One never spends too much on a scope as long as it doesn't take from his faimily, but one certainly can spend too much on a rifle.

I have a safe full of s/shot Savage actions with heavy Pac Nor tubes on them...from 20 Vartarg to 260 Ack Imp...the newest still on its way is a 28" large shank no taper 6.5x55 8 twist getting screwed into a Savage s/shot target action...Savage is not the same rifle it was 30 yrs...back when Remington was top dog....take a look at the product line for Savage 2011..lots of new & interesting calibers & rifles...as mentioned Savage rifles are easy to switch barrels with minimum tools...a big plus for shooters...pre fit barrels are very available also.