For a long range hunting/tactical type rifle, I'm considering building one in 7MM Rem Mag, or 7MM Short Action Ultra Mag (SAUM).

Does one of them have one or more advantages over the other? What would that/those advantages be? Which way would you guys go? And also, what target weight would you try to achieve?

The big thing with the SAUM seems to be that it's got a longer neck, and fits in a short action better than the WSM.

If you check out sniperhide, there's a couple guys that built some majorly badazz 7SAUMs and are running 180 Bergs at like 3015 (albeit a 28 inch tube ;)). I think the SAUM is a great little cartridge, I'd like to slum one soon.

That being said, I don't think you can go wrong with the tried and trued 7 Remington! But you'll be different with a SAUM

7MM RUM or 7MM STW . Of the two listed the 7mm Rem Mag would be my choice

I would go with a 7mm RUM because I just picked up one I got some Nosler 160 grain Accubonds didn't get a chance to try it out yet.

Next build will be a 7mm rem mag throated to run 168 bergers and 180 bergers at 3.5 OAL. Son's is just that and is a very nice rig. Only trying to figure out if I want to go lightish or heavyish for long range gunning. Action options are more limited though for lefties.

I could see a 7 SAUM in a Model 7 for a nice long range righty.

I think if you look at what is winning in 1000 YD BR and F-class open, there are a heck of a lot of 7RUAM, 7 WSM and no 7 Rem mags or 7RUM.

That says something right there.

Kill zone on an elk has me thinking a 7mm rem mag will do fine. WSM would be nice but try to find a lefty short action mag boltface other than custom.

The 7mm Reg mag will do fine for sure. In a hunting rifle, it is doubtful you will find much difference in accuracy between it and the two short fatties.

The SAUM has the advantage of fitting in a SA. The 7mm RM has every other advantage for a hunting rifle. If a SA is important to you then its a no-brainer (SAUM or WSM), otherwise go 7mm RM and never look back.

7MM Weatherby !

Any cheap way to get 7mm Weatherby brass? That is main reason I haven't run one yet.

There is a gentleman from Montana that will be posting here shortly. He is saving the world one 7 XXXXXX at a time.

I think he might have an idea for you

Dober I opened the door for you to save one more!

Model 7 7SAUM, plop it in a TI stock and kill stuff...

JMO

W

I'm thinking A3, and Rem Varmint contour, or heavier. But we'll get to that a little later...

Neither Dober or Bob is going to talk me into a Mashburn until one of them invites me hunting, so I can get a firsthand look at what it does.

Oh, that tactical...

A sendero in any big 7 would do fine to start... JMO

W

just come in from shooting the 7 rum with 140gr accubonds i am really liking this sendero the stw get futher back in the safe.

Tried and proven for years...7 REM Mag..
Certainly not in the current fad group, but it'll do all you could ask it too.

Al,we can go hunting....maybe chase a black bear with Dober this spring? I dunno....we should at least go bass fishing.

On the cartridge, notice I ain't said a single word.... Just reading here.

Things you will never hear a Southerner say:

I'll take the small bag of pork rinds...
Wrasslin is fake...
Elvis Who?
I prefer the 7mm Mashburn to mah 30-06...

dogger: Given that the Mashburn was conceived sorta south, and west,of the Mason Dixon line, I could comment but won't......

I'm aware of some southern boys stacking stuff up with the Mashburn...they are having a good time...and Kenny Jarrett,having gotten off the 280AI kick a bit, is now hawking a 7mm very similar to the Mashburn,,and calling it "new"..

BTW, I never knew Virginia was the "south".....I always thought of it as part of the DC/NY/Boston metroplex....


Anyway, it took Yankees to make the 7mm Mashburn.....and the 30/06...well known.

Good catches BobinNH, but I could not resist...

Yeah, I am originally from Tidewater, and we consider ourselves southern, since we were occupied by the Yankees for awhile (eg Fort Monroe), and my namesake served in the Surry Light Artillery... but Northern Virginia where I live now sure has a bunch of Yankee sympathizers runnin' around...

When you go into the local gun shops and mention 7mm, if it ain't the 7mm Remington Magnum, or 7mm Weatherby, their eyes will glaze over... i dare not mention 7mm Mashburn Super...

Que banjo's

W

Dogger, I don't blame you....LOL!

I been to Virginia and rural Tennessee...as well as Georgia and rural Florida....now that's the South!

But I know you'd treat me to Southern hospitality if I showed up in Northern Virginia....even if I am a damned Yankee (which is what they called me first night in Tennessee).

I even got invited back!

In truth, there are lottsa good 7mm's today.

If I ever feel like somethign different than the 7wby, I'm going to out loony the mashburn. Think 7x68AI..or 6.5x68AI

rosco that IS pretty looney!

7mm Allen Mag if you really want a BIG 7.

7mm rem mag.... Years of "been there and done that" experience come with it, not to mention the plethora of loads be it factory, reloads, match, hunting, or reduced.

Can't 'member who said this saying, 'The 7mm rem mag is what the 06' wishes it was and what the 270 dreams to be'.

I agree

Short action, I'd be all over the 7 WSM, long action slamo dunk for me it'd be the Mashburn Super.




Anutha take via Flight 7 MSM...

Dober

See? Too much power. It completely blew his head off his body. You're gonna miss those backstraps.

Costco always has plenty of pollo 4 sale...

Dober

Me, too...30-40 years with the cartridge tells me it's a good one all right.

But if I could do it all over, it would be the Mashburn.Just does the same things,and more,easier and more consistently, rifle to rifle.Everyone who has tried it, says the same thing.

Dober I know this has been asked before but what's the difference between the mashburn and a 7mm/300win?

Bob, I'm so happy that you and Mr. Mashburn found each other, even if so late in life.........

Great bull Mark.

Your sarcasm is palpable.....what makes you "happy" is of little concern to me. Grow up.

Sweet bull Dober!

Bob can chime in here as I haven't paid much attn to it but I think that the Mashburn has a longer neck and a bit more case capacity. And of course, the gun loony's down fall a truck load of Panache...

Dober

Man, you think you know a guy well enough to leave off a smiley, but nooooo.......

Agree, except that I'd probably just roll with the 7RM in a long action. Both the WSM and the RM perform about identically, and easily do all that I need.

If I just wanted a project that I could screw around with, and bewilder the local resident hunters with, then I would consider building a Mash The fact that it's called a 7MSM would be the reason, though, not because of the subtle increase in performance over the WSM or RM.

Assume the Mashburn cleans up a rem mag chamber?

W

Nevermind... It does...

W

My experience has with the WSM and RM has been a bit different than yours Jordan. Not much but a bit different. My experience with the WSM is the same as other WSM's verses the standard mags. I've found that the standard old mags generally will top the WSM's by 100 fps or so. Now I can lean on the WSM's and get them to the standard mag speeds for sure. But leaning on a round to get to a certain number just isn't my style anymore. And that's coming from a fella who was for years President of the Red Liner club...

This is my experience with the 160's but I've found the WSM to be good for 2950 and up to 3K if I push it. The standard 7 RM I can run at 3050 and up to 3100 if I push it. All 3 of my Mashburn tubes have done 3200 with ease and can be run harder if I wish.

Once again this is just me but, for the most part anymore I when working with a new barrel I work up to what I feel is top end and then I back off 100 fps. Then I get to it, but that's just my way.

Any of them of course will get it done, it's up to the individual shooter to sort out which one turns their crank. Cause any of them will get it done.

Just the way I've found it.

Dober

Well, then, I'm glad that YOU and Mr. Mashburn have found happiness together so late in life, too.........

Hey Dober,

Good stuff. Experience is what counts here, rather than theory, that's for sure.

The Ramshot load data shows a max charge of Magnum giving velocities close to 3100fps for the 7WSM with 160/162gr bullets. This is in line with my own experience and load data. I use a load of IMR7828ssc that is 0.5gr over the max load listed on the IMR website, but I see an average of 3081fps from my rifle. My experience with the 7RM has been nearly identical (which it should be, since the case capacity of the two cartridges is almost exactly the same), except that if you push it really hard I've seen 3100-3150fps at the top end with a 160gr bullet. I'm perfectly happy to run the WSM or RM at 3050-3100fps with a 160.

I know the MSM could get me an extra 100fps, but I just don't think that would affect my hunting or shooting even one iota. Like I said before, I certainly wouldn't mind building a Mash, but it would be for conversation's sake and the "cool factor", not for the "performance gain".

It's blowing snow sideways here right now. How are things going down that way?

Dober and Bob---how many shots have you guys got out of a 7 Rem Mag before either accuracy really started to drop off...or you felt you had burnt out the barrel?

If you lose that much meat with the 7's, you can keep em'.


Travis

Seems to me that a .284" pill with a bitchin' BC run over 2700+ is pretty much awesome

Jeff:Sorry about that...I thought you were giving me the needle....

I agree with Dober....the case gets more velocity, easier, with the heavy bullets than the smaller 7mm mags,from 24" barrels as well,and across a wide range of rifles and barrels.

Everyone who has built one has been happy....

Got a set of dies you want to sell?

30338, A while back,you ask about cheap 7mm Wea. brass...I make my 7mm Wea. brass from 7mm Rem. Mag. brass, just run it though the die and it comes up a bit short...works wonderful...on a long Rem. 700 action it has been moving the 160's out at over 3200fps.. but it has a 26.5 in. barrel and the 160's are seated to the base of the neck...probably longer than can be achieved in a Wea. rifle.....
Still, I like the sound of the Mashburn...my old 7mm Rem. could achieve new life with a rechambering job...

I have had just the opposite experience. I have played with a grand total of ONE 7WSM but I can easily get 2950 with 180s from it and I can barely get that with 168s in the THREE 7mm Rem Mags I loaded for this year. Maybe I need to find better recipes. I dunno.

I get 3150 from 7x300 Wby and 3200 from 7RUM so I think the 2950 is about in line.

Or you could go with a 7 mm LRM. 375 Ruger necked down. I think you could easily get 3150 with 180 Bergers maybe more. I'm shooting mine with 71 gr of H 1000 and am getting 3035 but its so darn accurate its scarey. I might try to see what I can get after I run out of the ammo I have loaded.

I wondered about that 375 case.

Getting 3050 from my 7mm dakota with 180 grn vlds, 1-8 and 25 1/2 in barrel

30338: Unfortunately I don't... I have Reddings and they now have the prints for them as I think my pal and I had the first sets thay made. These are FL, but RCBS has them for Form, Trim,and FL. Some guys are just using the FL dies to form the shoulder and new neck; I have not tried it.

Reading the other posts is interesting on the velocities of the Dakota (had one) and the speculation on the 375 Ruger case.These are all about the same capacity as the Mashburn, but use less available and more expensive brass than the Mashburn, which is formed from common and available 300 Win Mag stuff.

I don't see any velocities from any of the others listed with the 175-180 that the Mashburn could not do as easily. They all have about the same case capacity.It would be no trick to break 3000 with a 180 from a 24" tube.

Plus,if I ever get tired of the Mashburn, my rifle can become a 300 Win Mag,an STW,or a 7RM with a new tube.

With the Dakota, I was stuck with the Dakota cartridges, and brass I could not form from anything else at $2 bucks a pop.

Al, I never really did a round count with the 7 Rem Mag but have cooked...I dunno...4-6 tubes(?). I am guessing they hung in about 2000-2500 rounds, maybe more(?).

If I were going tactical/target I would not build a Mashburn; I'd go with something like a SAUM....but this is my hunting rifle,my "big rifle",built to use where others would grab a 300 magnum of some sort.I shoot it almost every week,but not a lot. I only shoot to stay in touch with it....my bullet and load development is mostly done.

BTW any Rem 700 in 7 Rem mag becomes a Mashburn with a simple pass of the reamer...no need to do another thing. Pretty easy.My next one will be done that way.

Here's a good example...Joel is getting 3035 with 71-H1000 180 Berger (barrel length not stated)with the Dakota. I get 3075 with the 175 NPT and 73-H1000 from a 24" Mashburn.Close enough.

A necked down 375 Ruger is the 7mm Dakota,for all practical purposes.All three of these cartridges are different versions of the same thing.

In the Mashburn,I have seen the same velocities with H1000, Retumbo, RL 25 and H870,with different rifles and Krieger,and Rem 700 tubes.....all are 24".

Some of this will vary depending on barrel length,and type of barrel;but across the board these cases all give up the velocity easier than the smaller capacity 7mm's,especially with 160-175 gr bullets.

WyomingCoyoteHunter: There was a Mashburn put to use on that ranch I told you about this past year

My bbl is 25.5 without break 26 with. It seems to be a slow bbl but extremely accurate so I won't complain. Aaron said with the same load most of their rifles were staying at 3100 with 71 gr of H1000.

joel that seems to make sense with the longer barrel and all...

88Man is tracking the same vels basically....see his post above.

Hey Bob, when did the 7RM become a "Small 7"?

Jordan, when I got smart and got the Mashburn! LOL!

Haha, I was just going to say that the 7RM went from being a "Big 7" to a "Small 7" about the same time you were introduced to the MSM *grin*

I like my lil' popgun 7 WSM. I get velocities right in line with Jordan's.

It's not hard to get excited about +/- 100 fps. On the other hand it's not hard to not get excited about it, either.

I've been in contact with Gunwerks about their 7mm LRM (7/375 Ruger). It is essentially a 7mm Dakota with a .532 bolt face. Dies are available and supposedly Hornady is coming out with brass in Feb/Mar of this year. 180 VLD at 3100 w/o the magazine constraints of an STW. There's alot to like there...

Age and maturity do tend to help us out a bit. Back a couple decades or so ago when I was in my 30's I thought and thought was the key word I thought I had a good grip on things. Now that I'm approaching mid life at 53 I realize all to well how lil I know...

Dober

Yes, there is. That would get my vote. I've been waiting for a configuration like that for a long time.

Page and Hagel stopped their waiting about 1950 or so...

Dober

Now there ya go! Someone finally woke up!They probably read about the Mashburn....

Jordan/Jeff: You have to think about it like this....these larger 7mm's do with a 175-180 gr what the smaller one's do with a 160.....and with a 160, what the smaller one's do with a 140.

As to powder charges,they burn a bit more, but less than many 300 mag loads....I figure 73 gr of H1000 is not a bad trade off for 3075 with a 175 gr bullet.

Whether we need it or not is another matter...not up for discussion.

I just had to enter the dog fight.

A big 7 on the .375 Ruger case is a nice thought but you can't shoot anything else in it if you lose your ammo. Using the Mashburn you can run 7 Rem and 7 Roy in it if your luggage goes to London rather than Wyoming.

Maybe that isn't a consideration but for those who travel it is something to ponder. 7 Rem is available just about everywhere and makes reasonable backup ammo.

Wonder if those thoughts are too practicle for a rifle loony?

The balance between powder consumption and bullet speed sits differently for everybody, but I'm perfectly content to burn 9gr less powder per shot and get 70fps less velocity. IMO, 3000fps with a 175/180gr bullet is a winning combination.

he he...

NOW YOU'RE COOKIN' WITH PEANUT OIL!

Doc, I did not know that....really? That's interesting....

Al, I figure, it sure can't hurt!

you could probably get a 280 to go bang in there too..Very versatile

Barrel life would factor heavily into any "big 7" I bought.

Bob:

There has been at least one Mashburn on our local public range that someone inherited from a GF. The fellow was shooting it and someone asked to see it because the discarded brass looked weird. The young fellow was using 7 Rem in a 1950's Mashburn custom. It blows the shoulder forward and makes the neck very short.

rosco: I suspect that might be a problem in a Mashburn chamber.

Doc good to know in dire circumstances!

Gentlemen, can't all this discussion about "which Big 7" be put to rest with this simple solution:

drum roll...
...
...

A 7mm Mashburn Super necked up to 8mm!!!

The 8mm Mashburn Super!!!

Now there is a Looney's Cartridge!!!! Stoke Nosler's 180BT in it and you are off to the races...

From Handloader #200 Aug/Sep 1999:

Today�s shooters regard the 7mm STW as the cutting edge of modern magnums, but it�s almost exactly the same round as the 7mm Mashburn Super Magnum that Field & Stream�s Warren Page used all over the world in the 1950s, and basically the same as the 7mm-300 Weatherby wildcat that�s seen use over the past couple of decades. All three are "full-length" belted magnums, derived from the circa-1912 .300 Holland & Holland case, so have almost identical powder capacities and ballistics.

Don�t get me wrong. Layne Simpson�s dream-child obviously provides velocities a notch above the 7mm Remington and Weatherby magnums, though it doesn�t outdo the Mashburn round, even back when Warren Page filled its case full of war-surplus H-4831. But Layne�s variation uses the 8mm Remington Magnum case, with no need to be fireformed like the .300 H&H brass Page used, and is much cheaper than the .300 Weatherby cases needed to make the 7mm-300. An STW fan just needed to run an 8mm case into an STW die and presto! Super Seven!

Handloader article was wrong and was confusing 2 Mashburn cartridges. There were both a full length STW version and the SHORT version that used shortened .300 H&H brass. The SHORTENED version is what Page, Hagel, Duber, and Bob use.

Dang docbill, that is an interesting clarification. of course, you just doubled the life of this thread with that post!!



two Mashburns to discuss now. i'd be curious to know who shoots the LONG 7mm MASHBURN these days...

I don't know for sure but I'd think that the Long version wouldn't have anymore case cap. In fact I wouldn't be suprised if it wasn't less...?

But, I've been wrong b4 and will again

The authority on this trivia is the old PO Ackley book. Art Mashburn had a whole series of wildcat cartridges from about .25 up to at least .375.

Find PO"s book and use as a reference just DO NOT repeat DO NOT use the load data.

Does anyone know who's reamer the RCBS dies are spec'd for? Redding told me that their custom dies are based on the JGS print, which is a little different than the PTG print. I am interested in doing a little experimenting. I have been running 180's in the 7RM at 3050 in 26-27" barrels and wanted to do a comparison with the larger case as well.

So does this mean that Mr. Dobrenski will have to clarify his sig line, with a foot note as to WHICH 7mm Mashburn he is doing the saving?

The JGS print is for the short/Super Mashburn using .300 Win mag brass. Call JGS and ask them to fax you a drawing and do the same with PTG and compare to be sure. The Mashburn I run is off of the JGS print and I own one of their reamers. That is also the one RCBS dies match.

Docbill,

I have both prints, and the PTG version is slightly different. I will order the JGS reamer so the dies match up a little better.

Dogger, no, not needed....Docbill is right..Art Mashburn found the full length Mashburn case less efficient back then and the shorter case that we are all using to be the more "efficient" of the two.As a result he named our case the 7mm Mashburn Super

The full length case was much like the 7mm/300 Weatherby or STW of today.....of course they both work, and we have more powders today to help them.Both these cases are peas in a pod, both being full length 300H&H cases blown out and necked down.

But even today neither one really shades the 7mm Mashburn Super by very much. The "Super" is the cartridge that Hagel and Page used for their hunting for years,and the case Dober uses also.That it is formed from 300 Win Mag cases today should tell us the case is more intermediate in length, sitting between cases the length of the 7mm Rem Mag and Weatherby mag on the one hand, and the 7mm STW on the other.

If you call RCBS to order dies, this is the one you will wind up with far as I know..

Interesting... so... the easiest way to get into a 7mm Mashburn Super is to take a 7mm Rem Mag of your choice and have a smith ream the chamber? Order the dies from RCBS... obtain the 300winmag hulls, and bingo, you are in bidness?

My wife is going to shoot me...

The simple answer is ............YES !!!!!!

And use the Hornady loading manual 7 MM Roy load data. If it is safe in the Roy it should be safe in the Mashburn and remember to use a chronograph.

Gonna need at least a 26 inch tube to realize the gain, I am sure?

Hmmm... are you gentlemen running 24 or 26 inch barrels on your Mashburn Supers?

This may sound weird to those who love walnut, but my idea of the perfect 7mm Mashburn Super (for me) would be a stainless M700 settled into their black LSS stock... will I be disappointed with a 24 inch barrel?

I've had them in 23" and 25", thinking Bob and most normals run 24".

The Black LSS looks nice but I like the weight out front not rearward so I tend to avoid plywood handles. But, that's just my way.

Dober

Now try this on for size to be different. .280 Dubiel Mag (full length .300 H&H necked down) running .284s in place of the original .288. Feeds slicker than vasoline on a brass door knob!

I bought Remmies

Dogger: No, I doubt it. Mine and my pal's rifles were built from a pair of Krieger #2's, both 9 twist,on M70 Classic actions.Warren Page's rifle, Old Betsy,had a 22" barrel and he got 3050 with the old 175 Nosler partition with 73 of WW II 4831.

In my barrel I get the following velocities:
73-H1000-175 Nosler Partition for 3075 fps.
75-H1000-160 Nosler partition and Bitterroot for 3175 fps.75.5 puts either bullet over 3200 fps.

Matt's rifle takes a grain or so more powder for the same velocities.The cartridge gets these velocities rather easily. I am getting data from other folks indicating these velocities are "typical".

I do not push the envelope with this cartridge as there is no need for it....there is "room" in my loads and I could go higher, but the cartridge in a 24" barrel is basically a 175 at about 3050-3075; a 160 at 3175-3250 (max).

No doubt you would get more speed from a longer barrel, but I wanted a general purpose hunting rifle weighing 8# or under with a 24" barrel.....that is what I got.

Docbill is right about using 7mm Weatherby data but from our experiences watch out for the maximimum loads of Retumbo in the Nosler manual with 160's. In Matt's rifle 79.5 of Retumbo (Nosler max in the Weatherby)gave the 160 AB 3250.I dropped back to 78 gr in my rifle and got 3330(!)No blown primer but over the top. This is still a wildcat,so be cautious and work up.

That's right. I was just ready to write about the one Page used and the page turned and there was your post.

Yes you are in business, and yes, you will be hung.Join the club.

Lordy. I am slipping fast into the Mashburn Super Vortex...

I need to get my hands on an M700 7RM so I can convert it...

Thanks for the heads up on the rifle balance, I also like weight forward, but I sure do like that LSS stock!! Perhaps a heavier contoured 24 inch tube will restore the overall setup to weight-forward righteousness?

My latest Mashburn Super, designed to be a walking gun, is a 1970's Rem 700 in 7 MM Rem punched out with 24" tube. I replaced the stock with a Brown pounder and X coil sporting clays pad. Glass is 6x33 Lupy with LR dots in Talleys. Weight is just at 7.4 lbs and calculated recoil 33 ft.lbs. I am currently doing load development and am at 73 gr. H1000 giving 2950 fps. with 175 Sierra's. Target is 3075 or so and will swap Sierras with Nosler PT when necessary. COL in this gun is 3.6" This gun is designed to be slightly weight forward.

My other Mashburn, a blind gun, started life as a Brown Precesion 7 MM Rem 24" punched out with 2.5x10 Swarvo Habitch at about 8.25 lbs. I shoot 162 gr Hornady BTSP Interlocks at 3269 fps. using 76 gr. RL-25 and get groups of .6" When sighted in 3" high at 100 it is on at 315 yds. or so. COL here is 3.56" Both COL's are bullet to the base of the neck.

All good !!!!!

7 allen mag

Doc loves this cartridge....don't blame him!...gets me in a lather to shoot something!

It's a fun one for sure...

Hornady says "No". Not sure what to think as Davidson says "Yes" and brass will be $1.80 a pop!!!


Further conversations confirmed this. I think the brass will have Gunwerks stamp on it. Too pricy for this conversion. A Mashburn would be the way to go.

Uh... where does one find someone with the tools to ream a 7RM to 7 Mashburn Super, taking into account all the subtle things that make the Mashburn do what it does in a 24 inch tube?

Rent Dubers reamer, rent my reamer, buy your own reamer and take it to a smith.

Call JGS and ask who has bought that reamer from them and then rent it. That is what I did before I bought my own.

Ah so, many thanks... is there a short list of recommend smiths on the fire for a Mashburn conversion?

thanks

I got the same response. I am guessing its going to be only sold through Gunwerks.

Dogger:

Almost any compatent smith who can PROPERLY ream a chamber should be able to punch out an existing 7 Rem to Mashburn. Some may want to turn off some part of a thread to get a good bottom on the belt, otherwise it will clean up the chamber nicely. The other thing is to make up a dummy round for proper throating. The original Mashburn spec. had a short COL. Mine is set up for 175's seated with the base of the boattail at the base of the neck. That gives a COL at 3.6" with a Sierra 175 GK. One of the nice things is that with a long neck you can load all your bullets down to 140's using the same COL and keep the same jump to the lands.

If you decide to throat for Bergers then use a smith that knows how to throat for Bergers or Matchkings and set the gun up to run those bullets with your max. box length, +/- 3.65"

Given the profile differences between Bergers and Sierra Matchkings, the throat should be pretty differant from normal ogive bullets such as Hornady Interlock, Nosler Pt & AB, Sierra GK, etc.

Most of those reamers are going to have a 1.5* throat. This works on those long range bullets pretty good. As long as you keep your jump the same, most bullets will shoot best at the same spot. If you spec a reamer to make the throat where you can shoot 180s seated out to 3.65 and then decide to shoot 110 TnTs you are going to have quite a jump to get there!!

Small 7 Big 7

docbill, that set-up makes sense to me... thanks for the additional info. my interest is in bullet weights from 140 to 175...

Doc/Dennis: Good posts and info!

My throating dummies used a 160 Partition, base of bullet to base of neck;the 175 Partition seats slightly deeper into the case.Both bullets shoot well,and BTW have essentially the same POI to 600 yards, despite the velocity differences (3075 vs 3175-3200).Can't recall precise OAL, but know both are a bit over 3.5;close to 3.6.My rifle has an Echols box.

This is handy but raises a conundrum of sorts, in that,I am having a hard time finding a reason to use anything other than the 175 in this cartridge...

There may be hunting chores that a 175 Partition at almost 3100 can't do,but I bet the count is not very high.....if the thoughts of keeping things rock-stupid simple appeals,this might be a way to go.

Bob, you may have found your huckleberry!

Good on ye....

Jeff I have never used a damned 175 on a friggin' thing yet!LOL!

So my imagination is running amock! I am getting good reports from folks on it.Have not had a chance to use it myself yet.

Like many I always viewed the 160's as being "best" all round in a mag 7mm and have used them a lot.

But I noticed that some clever guys who were wildcatting Big 7's off the 404 Jeffrey case in the pre RUM days,all said the 160 is good but the 175 gr is THE bullet driven fast from a big case...that stuck in my mind for years,so I figure....let's find out!

You'll always be able to buy ammo for the 7mm Remington Magnum.

Bob:

No lesser a saint than Warren K. Page his-on-self preferred the 175. And that was with the semi-pointed NP!

My attempt with this gun is to keep it SIMPLE and just swap Sierras and NP when necessary.

Doc: Basically, mine, too. With a Bitterroot here and there....

Turned out good....I can interchange the two without touching the scope.

Have you tried the 160 grain Accubond yet?

Yes, Bob we have shot them in two Mashburns...they are very accurate.But I don't hunt with them.

[/quote]Yes, Bob we have shot them in two Mashburns...they are very accurate.But I don't hunt with them.[/quote]

I'm thinking the Mashburn should push them to 3200 without much trouble, my thinking is long range Pronghorn, my favorite is the Partition but the AB should fly a little flatter and have a little less drift than the Partition.

Thanks!
Bob

Bob seems the top end is about 3250 with 160 AB's and Retumbo;over 3200 with RL25 and H1000.

We can see little difference we can detect with regard to pressures, etc., with the 160AB, Partition,or Bitterroot.IIRC my pal has also run some 160 gr Northforks....about the same/same across the board.

The cartridge is pretty predictable in terms of where we wind up velocity wise.

I have had only one screw up, that with a 160 AB and Retumbo that registered 3330...I got a bit heavy handed with the Retumbo.I never fired another round of that load.

If I could get 3200 out of a 24" barrel life would be good. I have a little Retumbo left after playing around with the 7mm Ultra but will need to restock anyway so it doesn't really matter what powder I use, I'm in the sticks so pretty well have to order it anyway.

I have run 162 gr. Honardy Interlock BTSP at 3250 and 76 gr. RL-25. Plenty fast for me.

I'm pretty sure that it was the 175 Noz that Dogzapper said was the bane of the guide's existence when he was guiding in Hell's Canyon. They didn't like the way that bullet worked out of a 7 RM.

Driven at 3200 fps though... whoa...

I like Steve a lot, but on this one our experiences are 110% diff. Now I've not used the new 175 Sptzr much but the older 175 Semi (BC .484 I think) is an absolute hammer and then some!!!

Dober

Bob, 3200 from a 160 and 24" barrel seems pretty routine. I am not surprised anymore with 3250, like Doc says.

This is the big reason I went to it;those velocities are consistent,easily acheived, with none of the melodrama we sometimes encounter with the 7RM where some rifles get good vels and others are stubborn.

Those interested can ask RinB on here about the 175 NPT in Africa....Darcy E as well.Ingwe seems happy also from the 7x57......As to other 175's I am generally getting very good reports on not only the NPT;but the TBBC as well.

Not to worry...certain there are plenty of great 175-180 gr 7mm bullets to suit anybody's flavor of bullet performance.

I bet those 175's would have some come-back-atcha from my Kimber at, what, 2900 fps or so <grin>...

this would be the big 7 I'd build.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/7mm-allen-mag-test-rifle-finished-12095/



This pic compares the 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Allen Mag and 7mm RUM. The case capacity of the fireformed 7mm Allen Mag is 15 grains larger then the 7mm RUM in spite of only having a case length of 2.700"!! When both seat bullets to 3.650" the Allen Mag has an even larger capacity advantage.

stx: The Allen mag is a big kahuna all right!

Jeff I'm guessing that's about right....

Build it in a hunting weight gun (4 me at most 8 1/4 lb all up scope, rounds sling) and no break and get back to me about how the Allen works out...

Dober

Things like the RUM or the Allen... I think about the time got familiar "enough" with it, it'd be time for a new barrel.

Jeff you and Dober are nibbling around a key issue for me...this rifle weight/recoil balance thing.

Yes you can go up in powder capacity, likely beat it in velocity.But in a rifle of 7.5-8 pounds the Mashburn stays pleasant enough to shoot...not suggesting it does not recoil of course. It does, but the powder charges and bullet weights at Mashburn velocities are just below that threshold where it becomes "excessive".

My rifle weighs 7 pounds 14 ounces scoped. Not a fleaweight,but light enough to lug, even in mountains.Running the numbers it should kick more than it does;but that Echols stock makes it behave like a pussy cat at that weight, even with full house 175 gr loads.

That raises a good question for us newbs to the Mashburn... what stocks out there (factory or aftermarket) are suitable for setting up a well-balanced 24 inch barreled rifle while keeping the <= 8 lb Mashburn "pleasant enough" to carry and shoot with 175s? I am pretty sure that I will choose a used M700 7RM in some fashion to convert, and then let pain be my guide... but it is nice to know where I should be looking for aftermarket pads and stocks...
I have a bony shoulder... shooting a steel butted M14 with service 7.62 ammo is painful to me. To this day I don't own a .308 Winchester in anything.

My latest Mashburn is as outlined earlier. 1972 Rem. 700 barreled action, Brown 'pounder stock, Luppy 6x33 LR, Talley mounts, nylon sling, 3 rounds in mag. = 7.4 lbs. Calculated recoil 33 ft/lbs. with 175 gr. at 3100 fps. With this configuration the balance point is a little weight forward and it hangs very well.

I have shot this thing off the bench for 20 rds. and while snappy not abusive to me. Mobile, accurate, and deadly. YMMV.

My main Mash has a Brown on it as well, if I recall right the weight on it is 28 oz.

For me I like the weight out front so would want the stock to weigh no more than 28 at max.

Doc's Pownder rig sounds awesome!

Dober

Dober:

I built the latest Mashburn to be weight forward and lighter than my original one. The first one is in a Brown normal fiberglass stock with a Swarvo 2.5x10 Habitch, balances mid-action and weighs about 8.2 all up.

I'd do a Rem700 KS Mountain Rifle stock from McMillan.

Whats the parent case for the one in the middle? L
ooks like a shortened 338 Lapua maybe?

.338LM necked down and blown out...

338 WM necked down, hold the fluff.....

+1 Thats my favorite 7mm wildcat......

A nice write-up by David Petzal on "what we can learn from Lefty"...

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/shooting-tips/2009/12/what-we-can-learn-lefty

475 head of game, I'd say that's a few arks...

I read Dr. Pages stuff as a teen and that is why I built my Mashburn. Warren wrote in a style that speaks to my heart much more than Cactus Jack.

He died without the reader reputation/love that Jack gets and that is a real shame but the Mashburn lives on !!!!!! God Bless Warren Page where ever he may be.

I didn't know Warren but did know Hagel and that's why built mine. Been thru 3 tubes so far and hope to roast many mo b4 my time in the hills is over.

Dober

I second this motion

This was before the 300 Win mag, so what case did Page use for the S-Mashburn in 1949.

He used the H&H trimmed down, once the 300 WM came out (62) then they used it.

Dober

Yeah, I went that way for a long time.....still one of my favorites.

Close, but it ain't a Mashburn....

What can an Mashburn kill that a 7mm Wby or Rem can't? Seem like alot of extra work and more expense for little gain.

joe IIRC you stay at home and shoot elk at long distances from the house with a blown out 270 magnum of some sort....so I guess I could ask you the same question(?) No?

joecool544, for me the 7mm Mashburn Super offers three things:

(1) significant Panache cool factor
(2) optimal ballistic and terminal performance given a set of design criteria, performance parameters, available components, and reloading concerns
(3)a possible Holy Grail to my never-ended quest for the "perfect cartridge"

I agree the on-game performance of a 7RM or 7Wby would be indistinguishable, but that is not one of my criteria.

I spose in the real world not much, but then again if I wanted to look at it that was I'd use a 06 and a 168 or 180 and have a 22 LR and a 12 gauge....grin

To me, it's not so much about what else it will do but I just plain like it and want it so I use it. 4 me, it's the extra work of making the cases is of no big deal. Think the last time I did 50 virgin cases it took 8 minutes, I can't even cook a pizza in that time. Then I had to take the time to fire form them, and they shoot MOA to 500 so it's all good practice for me.

The Mash takes me speed wise places I can't go with the 7 RM, the Wby is surely in the arena but has none of the Panache for me that the Wby or RM has. And for me that's kind of important.

Plus, I got to know Hagel a bit so for me I enjoy using the round as I know that Bob used it. Good enough for me.

Long and the short people should use it if they wish, don't if it doesn't make sense to them and hit the hill and hunt hard the rest of the time.

Bottom line, this stuff is just fun for me, if I wanted to be reasonable about it like I said there's other ways to do it. Bout the time I worry about the extra expense of a set of dies that I paid more for than I would of another set of dies I'll start doing all my hunting at the grocery store.

I don't dick with a lot of different guns, I don't buy new guns every year. I have a few old favs that I run the hell out of. My 700 Mash is ready for it's 9th tube. I like the gun, I'm intimate with it and I can get things done with it in an ok manner. So 4 me, it works.

Gotta run, you all have a good day!

Dober


(Joe, you run a 7 Allen?)

Oh no Bob you just didn't say that did you Now don't be jealous cause I have my own place to hunt. Hell yeah I shoot them from the front porch (you and every body else would do the same thing if you had such a place) with many different things. But if I'm going to all the work that the Mashburn take I would go for much bigger gains like the 7mm Allen.

Good post Mark not much a guy can't kill with the old 06 No I don't have a 7mm Allen I do have a 7mm REM and 7mm Wby having a 708 and a 7mm wsm built right now.

Unless you're getting the good guy deal I'm guessing that tween your 7 RM, your Wby, and the 7/08 and the WSM you're probable spending a bit more than I did for my one set of Mash dies. But, I could be wrong as I've been so many times b4 and have no doubt I will be again....grin

I wouldn't mind doing a 7WSM on my lil 70/Edge platform, may get to it once this dang economy settles around a bit.

Thinking the only reason I don't just run an 06 is cause everyone member of my family from top to bottom did while I was getting older (note I didn't say growing up as I've always believed that growing older is inevitable but growing up is optional...grin). So, I ran a 270 and every other thing just to be different. Guessing that might just have something to do with the reason I run a Mashburn.

Dober


(side note Joe, do you get much for white your way in the winter?)

Joe wasn't knocking it....I just wanted to be sure I had the right guy! Didn't you have an Allen mag? A 270 of some sort? that's what I recall....

As to the gains,yes they can be small,but they are consistent, rifle to rifle....but you just get the velocity easier from it...since I am basically down to three BG calbers(Mashburn,270,and 375H&H)the time for loading is not a factor.

Yes Bob I have a 270 Allen, 338 Allen and a 338 ultra Maxx that is based off the 270 Allen.

The 270 Allen is very easy to load for just neck down the 7mm RUM and leave a false shoulder and shoot it. The bad part about it is wildcat bullets have dried up. Good part about it I guess is I bought a bunch of them when I guy could get them.

Joe there is some outfit making new high BC bullets in 270 cal...I can't recall the name but they may be worth looking at for your Allen mag.Someone here will recall the name...

Yep there is. But the 195 wildcat bullet made the 270 Allen rock.

Here is the link to a place making high BC bullets for the 270. Don't how well they will shoot.
http://www.matrixballistics.com/.277-Caliber-rifle-bullets.html

joe thanks. Yes matrix is the one I was thinking of...

Soooooooo...no love for the 7MM SAUM...

I guess I'll just have to take it upon myself to build one, and make a believer out of yous guys, eh?

Let's see...160 AccuBombs, or 168 VLD's at 2,900-3,000, with 60 grains of powder. What does Larry The Cable Guy say?

...and barrel life to boot.

That's one of the reason's I kept my .270 and sold my shorty 7. I could do 2950 with a 160 in the shorty 7 and my .270 with 150 Nozlers will run 2950...

Dober

That's leaning pretty hard on the .270, but not the 7 WSM. Just sayin'.

Not in my experience Jeff, have had good case life (primer pockets tight). My last 2 barrels were cut at 23" both were Lilja's and with 57 of R22 both would go there just fine.

What kind of .270 tubes have you worked with and what did you find for speeds?

And in my One 7 WSM Montana 3K was top end and then some with the 160...

Dober

Bob:

Interesting where you have ended up. My 3 are .22-250 AI, 6.5 Rem Mag, Mashburn, .375 Ruger.

There are some valid reasons for the Mashburn over the Remington.

None other than Jeff Cooper wrote that the Big 7 needs to drive a 160 at 3150. Page and Hagel as well as George Hoffman praised the 175 Partition at 3000. Some 7 RM's will come close but not all will reliably do so. That level of performance is necessary, in many minds, to make it a worthwhile step up from the 270 Win.

You need to use every trick known and then be willing to lean on the 7 RM pretty hard to reach those levels and even then not all will do it. The Mashburn lovers tell us they can do this with predicatability and without extreme pressures. Now whether the added performance makes any field difference compared to the 7 RM or the 270 Win is question that has no answer.

Jeff,
What is your experience with the 270 and custom barrels using 150 bullets? I have been getting 2955 with IMR 7828ssc and 150 CTBS. The charge is 1.0 grain less than I have seen in print. 22.75" Bartlien

I have decided to stick with the 270 Win over all the big 7's. For my use it is plenty.

Your right Rick in that 7828 is another excellent choice with the .270. I've mainly used 140's and 150's with it. Thinking that R25 may well work as well, though not sure if I ever worked with it.

And George did think well of the Big 7's and 175's @ 3K, smart man.

The main diff to me tween the .270 and the Mashburn is when ranges go from 400 on out. To me the Big 7 has a faster "QDQ". They don't get any deader or course but the "QDQ" is nice when one is something I like. And, as all know that "QDQ" stands for Quicker Death Quotiant"............grin

I see lots of quick knockouts with the .270 (lung hits) sub 400 or so. But, when one goes longer say 400-650 the Big 7 is the speed demon when it comes to fast knock downs. Once again, this is without breaking bone as I've pretty much been a arm pit shooter all my life.

Dober

Yukonal, the 7mm SAUM is getting some good loving over at 6mmbr.com

check out the article on the SAUM here:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/7mm/#7SAUM

I think you will like what you read...the velocities are truly impressive, although he is using a 30" krieger barrel...

still, if i wanted to set up a 7SAUM, i would start with the recommendations found there.

Yep,

That's where I get most of my brilliant ideas.

There seems to be alot of-or some-concern about getting the seated bullet up to the base of-or into-the neck, and still load to mag length in a short action.

Once all that gets straightened out, the rest is gravy. I think there are plenty of reamers that are pretty close-available.

I need a dope slap <whap>.... bad Jeff, bad bad bad.

I've never loaded for a .270.

I just glanced at factory load speeds (2830 fps).

I shouldn't have said anything about .270. Can I blame the noggin? Having kind of a bad symptom day in that regard.



With my mea culpa out of the way, I'll say (from experience) that 2950 fps/160's is not "representative" of 160's in the handloaded 7 WSM.

I'm sure .270 is the muffins. Not intending to impugn it in any way. Just standing up for my man the 7 WSM....

Gonna see if beer cures my brain tonight. Found myself wandering the aisles at the hardware store today aimlessly- haven't had that happen in a few weeks. Aargh.

Al there are LOTS of good cartridges and choosing makes a guys head spin. The thing is they all work and a guy can hardly go wrong....I have danced around the cartridge flag pole a LOT over the years,but anymore I can barely keep up with them all, so have really narrowed down lately.I look back and what has seen the most action has been the 270,a magnum 7mm,the 30/06,and a 300 Magnum of some sort.....the 375H&H and today the Ruger are special and stand alone IMHO.

There are what I call the generic 7mm's and these all do 2900-3200 with 140 gr bullets and 2850-3000 with 160's.....but when it comes to moving the heavy 175's over 3000 fps,consistently,at pressure I can live with from a 24" tube,and without a lot of trick moves and from a variety of rifles,the field gets pretty narrow....among them I picked the Mashburn.

I had a hankering to try the Mashburn and it has delivered....heavy or lightweight bullets.Does not matter...they ALL go plenty fast.I like the velocity levels of the cartridge cause I tend to hunt with pretty tough bullets,and the magnums just open them up good at distance.

No doubt that SAUM will have more barrel life but for me, two things in life are expendable.....rifle barrels and bass jigs My pal pours the jigs and I always have two spare barrels sitting around home ....I don't wait for barrels when the time comes to replace them.Both are the cost of doing business.

Doc all those are good choices of course and underscores what I have long believed and that is that there is much overlap among cartridges today.....it is pretty clear that those 6.5's can be made to trump a 270 with the highest BC bullets...but for me I am superstitious and very much believe in "lucky" rifles and cartridges,and that is why I could just never live without a 270 or a 375H&H

It is interesting but little known that Warren Page thought the Mashburn was too much and far too powerful to be used on deer sized stuff...to him the Mashburn was a real world wide BIG GAME cartridge...filling the niche of a 300 Weatherby with less recoil, and a lighter rifle,for a world traveling hunter.

For deer sized stuff he felt the 270 Winchester was best for the average Joe;but he himself hunted mule deer with a 6.5 on the 30/06 Ackley Improved kind of case...that guy was always thinking!

I have known for a long time that Warren used the Mashburn as a cheater .300 Weatherby. He let the 175's sectional density and reasonable recoil with a reasonable weight gun (8 lb.) do the work rather than the use a 200 gr. and heavier gun and recoil.

I have an article of his somewhere that extols the virtues of the .270 as the perfect western mule deer rifle. I just like the sectional density of the 130 gr. 6.5's driven at 3,200 vs the .270. It is sort of a Page thing.

Warren was a very crafty dude!!!!

In my newest SCI magazine, a 15 yr old girl's father took her hunting up nort' on an outfitted hunt. She killed a mountain goat, a bull moose, and a grizzly by herself.



With a .260.



Just sayin...



...

why is it that Nosler only loads their 130 grain accubond to 3100 fps in the 264 winmag? seems to me the cartridge is capable of doing better than that? their load data shows a max 0f 3053 in a 24 inch tube, but the powder choices aren't the slowest available... i think the 264 would sell a heck of a lot better if the factories optimized a 130 grainer for mojo speed in a 24 inch barrel...

Well.....sure!

LOL... funny how a .260 put a pause to the discussion in this thread...

I'll add my vote for the 7mm Wby if I were to go for a "Big 7". It does what the 7mm STW does but in a shorter package. After that I would go with the 7mm WSM.

No it doesn't.

Well looking at the Nosler #6 manual it pretty much equals the STW with a 2" shorter barrel when shooting 150g or bigger.

Well.....things get scewed in real life...like in equal barrel lengths and at equal pressures, the STW is just a faster machine.....I am suspicious when smaller cases give the same velocities as bigger one's.....something ain't equal somewhere.

Anyone that has loaded for both must agree the STW has more velocity than its lesser sibling, whether or not it's significant is another question but it has more potential velocity. BTDT, make mine a STW...

I guess I could look up the operating pressures of both, but I have never heard of WBY downloading their cartridges, but we are talking reloading. Looking at several manuals the only time the STW really beats the WBY is with 140g pills and that only by about 100 fps. Hornady even has the WBY slightly ahead when both are using 26" barrels and heavier bullets. Other manuals (Speer and Barnes) show the STW only slightly ahead using 24" barrels. I would say they are pretty close to each other.

I recall reading the STW got its original speed by being in the 70,000 PSI area. A little hot I'd say.

Been'n we on long big 7 rant, anybody neck down the good ol' .50 cal to 7mm yet??

Start'n to think the 7mm cal. has been put in more different 'magnum' cases than its seemingly ailing competitors .30 cal and .277 cal....

Silly other calibers.....

Just in case anyone was wondering... ...I'm building another 7 Rem Mag. This will be my 3rd one, and since I know them so well, I'll stick with it. Using some different components, tho. Some that I haven't used in the past.

And when that's done, another 7MM-08. Gotta love 7MM...

Running the 180 gr VLD the STW will give me 3150fps and our custom throated 7MM Rem Mags will give 2975 fps.

File this in the �For what it is worth� file.

If running the VLDs I prefer the 7MM Rem Mag/custom throat route as the STW needs an extended mag box and always seem to die a little early.

Heck Yukonal, what did you do with the first two 7RM? What will you do different to this setup? Inquiring minds want to know...

Sold the Gritters custom. Still have the Tikka Laminated Stainless...it's a rare bird, and shoots 1/2 moa at 400.

I think on this one, I'm going Greybull on the stock. I have to handle one first...next week at SCI. Also, for me, a #5 is heavy, but that's the way I'm going. And adding a Vais brake. It'll be the first brake for me, too.

I want to come in at 10# scoped. I think I'll be pretty close.

What action?

The STW has about 10-12% more capacity than the 7mm Wby, end of story. If you can't get more velocity from the STW in the same length barrel you're doing something wrong...

This one's a 700 LA. The next two will both be on Tikka Actions.

Sounds like a fun project!

I think you are going after the wrong person. I quoted several reloading manuals. If you disagree with them let them feel you wrath.

Im thinking we have a new convert....


dave

FWIW, I have a LH 7 WSM Savage Model 16. It has a 26 inch 1:9 tube from same. With the 180 VLDs, I get 3030 fps with 68 grains of Ramshot Magnum. Now I'm getting 2970 with 62.5 grains of Re 25. I actually have to throttle down this rifle. It has proven to be more accurate than I had hoped, too. One of my lessons has been that, if you want to push a 180 grains over 3000 fps in a hunting rifle, you need a scope with good eye relief ...

Only 6.4 Mils of come up needed at 1K yards.

I have run a ton of them and when it all boils down I stuck with the Saum.

I have put together several of them in various configurations. I finally settled on a 22" semi custom if you have questions pm me.

My rifle is pretty heavy with a light Palma 9 twist Bartlein plus a brake. Recoil is pretty much nonexistent even shooting the heaviest bullet available. I think the A3-5 will be awesome when it's here. The plastic factory stock sucks but it still shoots well in it. I'll know more when it's totally the way I want it.

I made an error here; meant to write 2880 with the R25 load.

My Mashburn is just a M700 on a HTG with a No3 Chanlynn.
Not a flyweight by any means but not as heavy as yours.
Mine is a 1-10 twisted.
I run the 168g Berger Classic with H1000.
Dang thing almost shoots with my bench guns.
I get a kick out of you running 195s in the MSM.
dave

You should try them. I'll be shooting some matches with it for sure when it lives in the right stock. Seems like it'd be perfect for some 1000 yard crows!

I thought i need a faster than 1-10 for the 195.

dave

You do. Why did you go 10 anyway?

I had ordered the two barrels for a project I started in 1989.And never finished.The barrels laid around for years before I got back to it. ..never really though about running anything that heavy for deer.Im a 140g ballistic tip for deer, kinda guy.
My Mashburn was kind of a afterthought parts laying around kinda gun so I ran the parts I had..

dave

I'm stabilizing the 195 in my 9.5" twist 7WSM, though it's not ideal by any means...

I to am interested in the 7mm saum. I shoot 140, 145 and 150grain from my 7mm Weatherby but it doesn’t stabilize heavier bullet well. does anyone have experience with the older Weatherby barrels and if so have they been able to find any bullets above 150 grain to shoot well. Another question does the seven saum shoot a heavier bullet well or is it a better lite bullet or target caliber?

This. I like Ballistic tips too.

It's the stupid 1:10" twist that Wby put on them that is the problem. I have a MkV 7mm Wby. It shoots 160gr Barnes well, but I shot a bunch of Federal-loaded 160gr copper tipped bullets out of it, and, at 100 yds, they all were making oval holes in the target.

I bought my 7mm Wby in ‘81 and it shoots 175 gr Partitions very well with IMR 7828.

The simple answer here is to rebarrel the 7 Bee with something in the same profile but a 1:8 twist of so. You should be able to stabilize anything up to 200 gr or so (if such is made).

I've got both a 7 Mag in an 1885 Single Shot and a first gen 700 Ti in 7 SAUM. That SAUM shoots 140 gr. TTSX's damn near in the same hole. It's my "go to" rifle.

I shoot only the 197 SMK's in mine and it does very well.

Speaking of old 7 threads..........

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ay/Search/true/big-7-my-way#Post11189411

Interesting. Is that a 1:10" twist?

I would if it were a go-to rifle. I just replaced it with two 1:8" twist 6.5-300 Wbys, and I passed the 7mm Wby on to my 17-yr-old son. It shoots the 140gr and 160gr Barnes really well, which should suit him for anything for which he's going to need it for a while. Incidentally, when they started going out of production, I loaded up on some CorBon loaded 160gr TSXs. CorBon ammo, perhaps coincidentally, always shoots lights out in my Wbys, and they're usually loaded hot. Their loading launches the 160gr TSXs at 3,240 fps out of the MkV I gave my son. I wish they loaded something for my 6.5-300.

I’ve never measured it but it’s whatever the factory used at that time. That’s why I mentioned the time frame. BTW it was Japanese made Mk V that I bought while I was stationed in Japan.

Man, you have some FUN toys!

And lucky to have a spot like that 3 miles from the house.

Actually, I sold that 7x300, and built my first 6.5 PRC.

The PRC stayed super to 2K as well, but did it with even less recoil, and a lot more barrel life.

I am a fan of the 7RM having worn out three of them so far, but if building I would look at the 7mm Mashburn or the 7mmx300 win. with the Mashburn being a better design due to a longer neck.

The 280AI is another favorite and the Rem. 7 SAUM is a better designed short version of that capacity case. Not sure I buy the inherent accuracy claims but it is similar to a PPC on steroids and no doubt as to it being accurate. Possibly more accurate than the 7RM with fewer magnum velocity swings. I would put it in a medium action or even a long one and twist it for up to 195 grain bullets although I would probably use 160-180 most of the time.

If you go Mashburn, have the smith cut the leade angle at 1.5 deg. That has improved accuracy on my last rebarrel.

I have a 7mmSTW reamer and have built (3) of them.
I have (2) 7mmRemMag reamers and have lost count of how many I have built for myself.

My personal belief is that the best long range gun that weighs 10 pounds for a guy with poor shooting skills, like me, is a 7mmRemMag

7mmRM 3.34" 140 gr nos bal tip moly 66.7 gr IMR4451 3384 chrono 28" barrel  

With 180 gr, RL 26, 24" 7 Rem Mag 2950 to 3k what am I missing?

Nothing...and try finding ammo for the .28 Nosler at a local Wally World store, should the need arise.

Nothing. These are the same specs my 7 WSM had. BTW, I bought most of the brass from you, if you recall. If a short action is desired, I can't see beating the 7 WSM. Also, for a hunting weight rifle, 180g x 3000 fps is about all the recoil I want.

Anyone have any idea what a 175 grain could go from a case holding 109 grains of water to the mouth? Let's say with a 26" barrel.

Can easily be formed from 300 WM brass, but if going that route I would probably do the Mashburn or 7mm x 300WM with the Mashburn as frist choice due to a longer neck. You can also re-form 7RM brass but it will be short.

7-300 PRC

Lapua brass

The RL-26 same as the rest of us who don t have any and look for it all the time. Mb

Is that your plan Rin?

30. you can make 7mm Wea. brass from 7mmRM.. Just run it into the die and form it and shoot.. It will be a bit short but will grow with time.. It is one of my favorite 7,s.. Had an STW no Mashburns or 7mm-300's I might look at them if I were doing this all over, but I am not.. Good luck..

I hope so! It’s pretty much the 21st century Mashburn!

Rick will keep building 270’s and knocking stuff down and forget about it though.

WhelenAway
If I wanted a Big 7 I would get the 7-300 PRC. However, I have used a Big 7 on seven or eight plains game hunts and I couldn’t see any increase in effectiveness over a 270.

The primary original reason for magnums was to increase range by flattening trajectories. LRF’s have changed that.

If I wanted to shoot animals at LR and wanted a light portable hunting rifle I would pick a 30/06 or a 338-06 over any Big 7.

I am convinced that bore and weight are important.

Actually the 30/06 is a really hard hitting big game cartridge.

That's what I figured Rick.

But once in awhile your posts have me thinking you're gonna wander off the 270 reservation again, so I figured I'd check

I don’t think the bigger 7’s really come into play till you’re out past 400 yards myself. Up to that point the good old 270 is pretty tough to beat. Especially with the sleeker bullets coming out for them everyday.

My choice would be the 7mm Remington Magnum.

WhelenAway
Actually I think the very best light rifle cartridge is the 280 Remington. The 270 Win is really close but is in second. The 270 is available worldwide whereas the 280 is not. Once I couldn’t find a single box of 280 ammo in all of southern Idaho or Wyoming. That was the end of the 280 for me.

My self imposed distance limit is 440 yards. Frankly, I enjoy getting within 75 yards or so. That is more interesting and challenging to me. I am not a bow hunter but I certainly understand the thrill of being close. LR shooting is more of an abstract engineering problem, something to be conquered. Also, I like the idea that my quarry has a pretty fair opportunity to outsmart me and escape. That is pretty much absent in the LR deal.

I don’t mind getting skunked.

Sort of off topic but not quite. I shoot a 7 mm Mashburn and the thought of lost ammo and no commercial available has crossed my mind until..... I ran into 2 guys at my local rifle range. They were shooting a 7 Mashburn one of them had inherited from his grandfather. It was a very nice custom from the early 60's likely. Their ammo of choice was factory 7 Rem. They got it sighted in and were happy. The brass had a VERY short neck and no telling what the velocity was but it would probably have killed a deer to maybe 250 yds.

I guess any port in a storm