i just cant get used to how guns look with the 20 moa rails on them. have any of you used the burris signature zee 20 moa rings? if so how was your experience with them. also I am not understanding how they get 20 moa. the thing I read was you put a 10+ in back and a 10- in front wouldn't that tip your scope down? and then you would have to adjust up to get your zero? which would make you have less moa on your scope then before... Thanks matt allen

I've had good luck with them in 30mm and 1".

When you tip the scope forward, you are essentially looking/aiming low, so bullets hit high. Adjusting erector down to correct, leaves more "up" available.

thanks for clearing that up I just couldn't rap my mind around how that works.

What part of the 20 MOA rail look bothers you? If it's the scope tilt, the Burris rings will exhibit that as well when offset inserts are used.

Alao, the numbers for the inserts are not MOA. They are thousandths of an inch. MOA is an angle. The size of the angle a set of offset inserts produces is dependent on the spacing of the rings.

just the look of a big goddy rail on top of some sleek guns yea I think they look good on tactical type rifles

I have modified talleys to give me more elevation several times. I always worry that it is going to torque the scope and cause a malfunction. But my favorite .308 has gone through at least 2600 rounds with a trijicon mounted in my modified rings without any issues.

If I ever figure out a good way to jig up dual dovetails I am going to start doing them as well. With the talleys I am just removing metal from the bottom of the front base, the ring mounting gives enough leeway to not bend the scope tube. I am pretty sure that dual dovetails would not work that way.

I have considered removing material from the bottom of the front base on dual dove tails and them mounting them on the gun. Then basically over lapping the rings until they were loose on a scope. I think I could then remove just a few thousanths from the bottom of the ring caps and relap them and minimize any scope torque. I just have never gotten fired up enough to do it.

The Burris signature zee rings work awesome and the inserts wont mark up your scope, if you own a Remington you can rotate the inserts 90 degrees and take care of windage problems also.

For entertainment I sighted in a rifle using the Signature rings. It was tedious, but it did work.

For the original poster, there is a +20 & -20, at least there used to be in the after market kit. You can get a lot of adjustment going from .000" to .020". This can give you minus .020" in the front and plus .020" in the rear. Do a little math with a ring center to center of about 4" and discover just how much movement you can get.

If you don't know means equals extremes maybe one of our math boys will come along and make it simple.

angle = arctan(vertical offset divided by ring spacing)

You can get the +/- .05, .10, and .20 inserts for 1" rings.

The 30mm rings only have +/- .10 avaialable.


When I used the .10s in my 30mm set, I gained 19 MOA. That was with DD bases, on a short 700.

With the 1" Zee Signature I gained 36 moa using the .20's fore/aft. That is on a pic style base on a 10/22, with ring spacing of approx 3.5", or 10 slots on the rail.

Aren't those .005, .01, and .02?

Anyway, here's your example. With .02" offset fore and aft we have .04" vertical offset, spread over 3.5" of ring spacing.

arctan(.04/3.5) ~ .6548 degrees

1 minute of angle = 1/60 degree ~ .0167 degrees

So we have (.6548 degrees)/(.0167 degrees per minute) ~ 39.2 minutes

I did a quick look and I think c-t-c Picatinny spacing is .394", so ten slots comes to 3.94". Using this figure instead of 3.5 gives us

arctan(.04/3.94) ~ .5817

.5817/.0167 ~ 34.8 minutes, which is closer to what you observed

I believe you are correct on all points.

Means equals extremes

Using a spacing of 4� for the scope rings and 100 yards (3600 inches) for the sighting it is very simple to see how much movement the rings will get you. If you move the rings up, down or sideways .015� you can write 4� and .015� on one line and right below it you write 3600� and a �?�. You then multiply the 3600 ( a mean) times the .015 (a mean) giving you 54 (an extreme). You divide the 54 by the 4 (an extreme) resulting in 13.5� (an extreme) of movement.

That reads like a "funky algebra" way of solving the equal ratios equation for x:

ring offset is to 4" as vertical change is to 3600 inches

.015/4 = x/3600

What I showed in the earlier post is how to get the angle.

You can also go here and let the computer do it for you--
http://www.twincityrodandgun.com/Sc...Scope%20Mounting%20Tilt%20Calculator.htm

The calcs for me have been fairly close for offset. You can also fine tune the Burris offset insert system to your hearts content by adding plastic credit card, coke can [both plastic and alum.) shim between scope tube and insert.

I bought a bunch of Signature rings a few years ago and got the gunsmith's offset insert kit that provides for a lot of inserts.

It only takes a few seconds on a basic scientific calculator.

I followed MontanaMarine's advice and I use them on my 10/22.

Enables me to really stretch the legs on the 22LR.


Travis

This is the formula I use:

Zee rings + gun= more elevation adjustments.


Travis

It's only a little trig, not rocket surgery.

I read through your calculations as quickly as I could and I still got a headache...



Travis

my experience too!