I'm thinking of buying a Cooper for elk and mule deer and LR for me is 4-500 yards. I was looking at a 6.5-284 and after doing some research it seems that barrel life is about 1000 rounds, I don't want to spend that kind of money only to have to replace the barrel.
I don't want a magnum and was thinking about a 280 shooting 168 grain LR Accubonds, please tell me what you think or recommend a caliber. I have five 30-06's so I don't want another one. Thanks.
With 500 yards being your top end, I would sink some money into really good glass for one of your 30/06s, and find a load using 155 Scenars or 185 Bergers that shoots tight.
Boring, I know. Just what I'd do, though.
Tanner
500 max opens a lot of doors....
Stuff one of your '06's with the new 190 grain Accubond LR through a 26 inch barrel. mtmuley
7-08...and dont look back.
Stuff one of your '06's with the new 190 grain Accubond LR through a 26 inch barrel. mtmuley
Assuming you can actually get your hands on them....
Think Cooper still replaces shot out barrels for free. Worth a call....
Cheers
W
I'm thinking of buying a Cooper for elk and mule deer and LR for me is 4-500 yards. I was looking at a 6.5-284 and after doing some research it seems that barrel life is about 1000 rounds, I don't want to spend that kind of money only to have to replace the barrel.
I don't want a magnum and was thinking about a 280 shooting 168 grain LR Accubonds, please tell me what you think or recommend a caliber. I have five 30-06's so I don't want another one. Thanks.
How many big game rifle barrels have you shot out in your life?
Guys thanks, woofer I will give them a call, Form, none but I plan on shooting about 200 rounds/year and don't want a shot out barrel on a very expensive rifle in 5 years!
get the Cooper in 280 and load whatever 160/168 shoots well......simple really.
For 500 yards you could even go with some kind of 140.....
or,...just use a 30-06
300 WSM, you've already got a head start on the components....
Guys thanks, woofer I will give them a call, Form, none but I plan on shooting about 200 rounds/year and don't want a shot out barrel on a very expensive rifle in 5 years!
That ain't it. Get the chambering you want and forget the barrel life bs. I can all but guarantee that you won't wear a BG hunting barrel out.
I can also guarantee that you won't wear a 6.5-284 barrel out in a hunting rifle in 1k rounds. Competition use of a barrel is in no way representative of what to expect from normal use. Do the math on how much you will have spent on ammo by the time you burn a barrel out. A rebarrel is chump change in comparison.
Most flatter themselves believing they will burn out a barrel.
I'm thinking of buying a Cooper for elk and mule deer and LR for me is 4-500 yards. I was looking at a 6.5-284 and after doing some research it seems that barrel life is about 1000 rounds, I don't want to spend that kind of money only to have to replace the barrel.
I don't want a magnum and was thinking about a 280 shooting 168 grain LR Accubonds, please tell me what you think or recommend a caliber. I have five 30-06's so I don't want another one. Thanks.
How many big game rifle barrels have you shot out in your life?
I would hope a few if you are posting in the LRH section.
get the Cooper in 280 and load whatever 160/168 shoots well......simple really.
For 500 yards you could even go with some kind of 140.....
this is exactly what I thought, and it sounds like you're leaning a little that way anyway.
another option would be to rebarrel one of your 30-06's. but if you're set on a cooper, the 280 will do all you want.
280 is great.....30/06 is great. I doubt there would be enough difference to be concerned about at 400-500 yards,and likely to 600 yards,as far as I have shot a 30/06.
Yeah the graphs will show some differences but the two are so similar I'd be happy to put either to work on elk or mule deer at those distances. Pick a good bullet, buy piles of them for either cartridge and shoot a lot.
I would not give a thought to burning out a barrel on an expensive rifle...it costs as much to put a new barrel on a cheap rifle as an expensive one. Besides, barrels are expendable commodities, like bullets,made to be used up and replaced.
Guys thanks, woofer I will give them a call, Form, none but I plan on shooting about 200 rounds/year and don't want a shot out barrel on a very expensive rifle in 5 years!
That ain't it. Get the chambering you want and forget the barrel life bs. I can all but guarantee that you won't wear a BG hunting barrel out.
I can also guarantee that you won't wear a 6.5-284 barrel out in a hunting rifle in 1k rounds. Competition use of a barrel is in no way representative of what to expect from normal use. Do the math on how much you will have spent on ammo by the time you burn a barrel out. A rebarrel is chump change in comparison.
Most flatter themselves believing they will burn out a barrel.
When we burn out barrels in 1K rounds with a 6.5x284, we are talking about 20 shot strings of fire. Nothing is harder on barrels than long strings of fire. You can probably get 2K or more rounds out of 6.5x284 with normal use....I am really just guessing there because all of the 6.5x284 barrels I have burned out were toasted shooting f-class. The one hunting 6.5x284 I own has about 400 rounds down range and while it does not look pristine through a bore scope, it does not look like the surface of the moon either.
I like the 280 Idea and you might even consider a 280 AI !
I'm thinking of buying a Cooper for elk and mule deer and LR for me is 4-500 yards. I was looking at a 6.5-284 and after doing some research it seems that barrel life is about 1000 rounds, I don't want to spend that kind of money only to have to replace the barrel.
I don't want a magnum and was thinking about a 280 shooting 168 grain LR Accubonds, please tell me what you think or recommend a caliber. I have five 30-06's so I don't want another one. Thanks.
500 yards is quite a ways out there. Hopefully, that won't be the norm. If it is however and you don't want a magnum, 30-06 is your best bet.
500 yards is quite a ways out there. Hopefully, that won't be the norm. If it is however and you don't want a magnum, 30-06 is your best bet.
"Best bet"
! That is a bold statement. Upon what do you base "best"?
500 yards is quite a ways out there. Hopefully, that won't be the norm. If it is however and you don't want a magnum, 30-06 is your best bet.
"Best bet"
! That is a bold statement. Upon what do you base "best"?
That is rather bold. Perhaps a "safe bet" is better wording. Either way, a 30-06 would be on my short list for non-magnum cartridges at that distance.
280 is great.....30/06 is great. I doubt there would be enough difference to be concerned about at 400-500 yards,and likely to 600 yards,as far as I have shot a 30/06.
Yeah the graphs will show some differences but the two are so similar I'd be happy to put either to work on elk or mule deer at those distances. Pick a good bullet, buy piles of them for either cartridge and shoot a lot.
I would not give a thought to burning out a barrel on an expensive rifle...it costs as much to put a new barrel on a cheap rifle as an expensive one. Besides, barrels are expendable commodities, like bullets,made to be used up and replaced.
This is good advise, don't worry about toasting a barrel it comes with the territory. For a guy who competes with a 6.5-284 in F Class and knows the cartridge at long range, wont have to shoot his hunting rifle as much for practice. I LR hunted two 6.5-284's and have two toasted barrel laying under the bench. They weren't just shot for hunting, long range hunters like to practice, a lot
whatever caliber you choose, it should be one you are comfortable with shooting quite a lot. I had the chance to use a friend's 500 yard range in NC a couple months ago. It was humbling. We shot at clay pigeons and a 10" steel gong. I bought that diameter of steel as it closely approximates the "kill area" of a mature deer. We started at 300, and that was fairly easy with a .260 and a 6BR, but moving back to 500, it was much more difficult to hit; the switching wind was a major factor. I learned more from those few hours than I have from sitting at my desk and reading the 'net.
Guys thanks, woofer I will give them a call, Form, none but I plan on shooting about 200 rounds/year and don't want a shot out barrel on a very expensive rifle in 5 years!
Then you have ZERO business taking a poke past 200yd at a live animal....EVER.
TAK, you're a tool. But then again, you already knew that. Carry on.
TAK--is there something wrong with you?
TAK--is there something wrong with you?
My wife says so:) Y'all been talkin?
Guys thanks, woofer I will give them a call, Form, none but I plan on shooting about 200 rounds/year and don't want a shot out barrel on a very expensive rifle in 5 years!
That ain't it. Get the chambering you want and forget the barrel life bs. I can all but guarantee that you won't wear a BG hunting barrel out.
I can also guarantee that you won't wear a 6.5-284 barrel out in a hunting rifle in 1k rounds. Competition use of a barrel is in no way representative of what to expect from normal use. Do the math on how much you will have spent on ammo by the time you burn a barrel out. A rebarrel is chump change in comparison.
Most flatter themselves believing they will burn out a barrel.
^^^this
Get the 6.5-284...they rock.
Oh, and ignore Take A Dump...
6.5 x 284 great round. competition rifles run around 3000 ft/sec with 142 grain bullets and shooting rapidly not allowing the barrel to cool. I load mine to 2850 ft/sec and have run 2000 rounds through my savage and it still shoots great. I have never shot competition and don't plan too.
Caliber isn't terribly important really. What you're asking about can be done with what you already own.
If you want a new toy without going "magnum", the .280 or 280ai would be interesting to me or one of Howells cartidges. A Cooper would be nice but rebarreling would be the route I'd go. Get a quality scope & spotter and spend time shooting. You'll find 500yards isn't as far as some make it sound.
I own several '06 and several .280s. If I'm shooting 500 yards on purpose I'm grabbing the .280.
280 AI looks interesting....good brass & dies...
7 Rem mag performance on 308 bolt face family
6mm 105 at 2850 using 28.5gr powder in my 6BR dumped my furthest deer kill, 400 yds.
Power is not the issue, shot placment thru vitals w/a good bullet is all required. A rifle that you can hold steady thru shot cycle on vitals, w/a scope that will click dope, after you LRF, will be needed.
A 260 or 7/08 will do, Creedmoor, 270, 7RM, 25-06, many many choices as Aalf said.
OP was thinking 280, I could endorse that round
Lots of good information already given here. Just find the caliber you want, pick a quality high BC bullet and practice, then practice some more.
As a wise man once said: "bullets matter, headstamps don't."
How about a .308 Win shooting 155 Scenars?
I use 210 bergers in my O6 with 59 gr imr7828ssc
My 6.5 creedmoor with 140 vlds at 2800 fps has been working well. But a 280 looks like a good way to go too. I'm still trying to make it out to try the stainless 280 ks I just picked up.
It all kind of depends on what bullet you want to use. For example, if I want to run an amax on elk I start leaning 30 cal with 208's with 7mm 162's my minimum. Vld's on deer I'm fine with 105 243's and up, and for elk I'd not be afraid to go 6.5 140's. I used a 150 ttsx at a 3400 fps on my moose this year knowing the range could be 20 yards or way out there. It worked well at 547.
So pick a few bullets that'll do what you want and then get the cartridge that'll run them where you want in the rifle you want. For 500 yards or less I've had good luck with accubonds. Any further and I start thinking amaxes and vld's.
I've got a bunch of 162 amaxes and 168 ablr's ready to go for my 280. Hopefully it'll like one of them.
Bb
Guys, thanks for all the info and advice (keep it coming), BB, I have two 6.5 Creedmoors, a Browning Long Range Hunter and a Hawkeye SS, I have shot both a little and they seem to be accurate with 120 Amaxes. I'm really looking to buy a caliber that I don't have (6.5x284, 280 or 280 AI) in a Cooper 52. A lot of people here said just go 06 and shoot, they are probably right.
They twist most of those right.. 270 would work
8T 6.5-06
10T 270
9T 280
10T 338-06
Cant get hurt on any. If resale is an issue then 280 or 338. Otherwise the 270 wins going away....
W
6.5X284 and don't look back. That is what I did and don't regret it.
I'd go 280ai....or the plane 280....stoke it up with a 160 Accubond, and rock on.
BC of the 160ab is decent and packs a punch down range. The 280ai can push them to 3k.. . Plenty enough for 500 yards.
My last bull was taken with a 160 partition....
Tony
I have a savage 116 stainless 30-06 that shoots well. Under 1 moa. Put a leupold scope on it, and shoot it a lot. I am comfortable with it out to 600 yds. Shot a 5 shot 5-6" group with it. Definitely within a minute of elk or deer. You have to have good equip, and shoot it a lot. Just a note. Once clicks and adjustment are figured, shoot from the prone position instead of the bench. That is the position you will likely be in when hunting. Can't take a bench with you. Guarantee you won't shoot as good at first, but it will come. ironically that last 2 big mulies I shot were at 100, and 200 yds. I like those shots the best.
I love my 280 AI, I shoot the berger 168 VLD at 2750 fps, very mild recoil and shoots bugholes. Mild load so I figure that barrel will last me a life time. I shoot steal out to 700 yards with no problem. Havent had a chance on big game past 200 but it gets her done. Ive shot 1 coyote at 450 and thats as far as I shot so far.
do some research on the 7mm saum at the 6BR website. There is a very informative article over there. Ballistically the same as the 280 AI but in a short action .
Get a Wby Mk V 340 and never look back, hand load what you like.
when did 400- 500 yards become long range ?
500 yards is still "long range"...ask John Burns (who knows).
JMHO, but anyone shooting only 200-300 rounds in a year has about "0" business shooting at game animals,in the field,at 400-500 yards.This round count is a veritable drop in the bucket to anyone very experienced in the long range game,whether target, varmint, or hunting.
Others are free to draw their own conclusions.
I had a couple 30-06's and would not recommend them for longrange, especially in a hunting weight platform. They kick more than necessary, especially when shooting 40+ rounds in a day.
Tough to beat a 7 Rem Mag for 500 yards on deer/elk. Remington will be tight twisted enough to run whatever bullets you want.
Remington's Rifles in 7mm Mag = 1 in 9" twist perfect for 160-175gr these bullets are usually .500 - .550 Ballistic Coefficient . Fly Flat. Good SD also
Whatever Brand you get , if you would shoot these long bullets, get it in 9" twist
Rich
500 yards with a good rifle and bullet combo should be doable with what you have. That said, I'm in the 7mm Rem Mag camp with DakotaDeer and nitrosonic.
Given your parameters, a 30-06 would be a fine choice. Instead of buying a new rifle, I would take one of the 30-06s you already have and make it EXACTLY how you want it, instead of "good enough".
I would rather own 3 hunting rifles that were "perfect" for my needs, than a dozen that were almost what I like.
In regards to caliber, the 30-06 would work quite slick. If you insist on something different, a 6.5-06 Ackley Improved would be an excellent performer, with high BC and low recoil.
On a personal experience note, I have shot a whole bunch of critters in the range you specified, with the lowly .308. Mostly they were big mule deer. But given the same conditions,and same range, elk would be no problem.
In fact my last 5 elk have all been with .308s, though some were chip shots, at 350-375 and closer.
The 30-06 is a fine performer in the ranges you have specified. Just envision what stock, glass and barrel length you would like and go for it!
Cheers!
338win, Thanks for the reference , I'm in the same CAMP, but in a different TENT lol
Back in '71, when I had the Remington custom Shop in Ilion NY (yeah the one that's in the News)build my first 280, I considered quite a few factors.
I wanted to use a non-magmum cartridge, to be able to carry 4 in the magazine, in view of the fact that outfitters as well as hunting pals prefer carrying a rifle with an empty chamber
In searching calibers, I found 257 & 270 didn't have anything going for them for long range perfomance on Big Game , Inadequate bullet weight,Ballistic coefficent & sectional density,for Elk size game at extended ranges.
I found the 30'06 Did have bullet weight , but inadequate ballistic coefficient & sectional density in projectiles weighing less than 200gr, and when using the superior 200gr bullets, the powder capacity was inadequate to drive them fast enough to obtain flat trajectory.
In reviewing the 7mm's , I found the exterior ballistics superior in every respect when the bullet weight arrived at 160gr. In a std 280 (24"bbl)the 160gr can be driven 2900fps, the Ballistic coefficient(ability to fly flat) was superior to evn the 180gr 30 cal bullets, and the sectional density superior as well.
I have owned and reloaded enough 7mm Mags to realize they use a lot of powder ,recoil harder, and have way more muzzle blast.
I am now finishing up my last 300 Magnum, Yes, With 200gr bullets, it kicks more,burns 25gr more powder, and only holds 3 cartridges in the magazine, but with a ballistic coefficient of .556, those bullets leave the muzzle at 3100fps and fly the flattest of any I will ever need.
No bashing required here , I'll agree an '06 is very capable of killin' the game, The OP did say LONG RANGE and my recipes above are Flat shootin', hard hittin', deep penetrating killers
Man, you have 5 06`s...What`s to ask? Use them. Plenty of power, plenty of bullet choices....and you would have 5 barrels to burn out!
Easy.
[size:17pt][/size]
338win, Thanks for the reference , I'm in the same CAMP, but in a different TENT lol
Back in '71, when I had the Remington custom Shop in Ilion NY (yeah the one that's in the News)build my first 280, I considered quite a few factors.
I wanted to use a non-magmum cartridge, to be able to carry 4 in the magazine, in view of the fact that outfitters as well as hunting pals prefer carrying a rifle with an empty chamber
In searching calibers, I found 257 & 270 didn't have anything going for them for long range perfomance on Big Game , Inadequate bullet weight,Ballistic coefficent & sectional density,for Elk size game at extended ranges.
I found the 30'06 Did have bullet weight , but inadequate ballistic coefficient & sectional density in projectiles weighing less than 200gr, and when using the superior 200gr bullets, the powder capacity was inadequate to drive them fast enough to obtain flat trajectory.
In reviewing the 7mm's , I found the exterior ballistics superior in every respect when the bullet weight arrived at 160gr. In a std 280 (24"bbl)the 160gr can be driven 2900fps, the Ballistic coefficient(ability to fly flat) was superior to evn the 180gr 30 cal bullets, and the sectional density superior as well.
I have owned and reloaded enough 7mm Mags to realize they use a lot of powder ,recoil harder, and have way more muzzle blast.
I am now finishing up my last 300 Magnum, Yes, With 200gr bullets, it kicks more,burns 25gr more powder, and only holds 3 cartridges in the magazine, but with a ballistic coefficient of .556, those bullets leave the muzzle at 3100fps and fly the flattest of any I will ever need.
No bashing required here , I'll agree an '06 is very capable of killin' the game, The OP did say LONG RANGE and my recipes above are Flat shootin', hard hittin', deep penetrating killers
All that you say here is mostly true, especially for the '70s but all those advantages of super flat trajectories have been mitigated by very accurate LRFs along with the ballistic reticles or turrets we have now. Back then, when I went by "+3 -- 0 -- -6 -- -20 -- -36" (standard cartridges) for a hundred yards through five hundred yards respectfully, a very flat trajectory mattered because when you got to four hundred yards and beyond one had to hold "on air" and most serious shooters didn't want to hold on very much. I didn't and worked up the cartridge ladder to bigger and faster.
But now, for example, an '06 with a 200-grain Accubond with a BC in the high 5s and departing at 2600-2700 fps can be spot on at six or seven hundred yards with a known range and a ballistic reticle or a MOA or custom turret. And IIRC, it will deliver about a ton of energy between the four and five hundred yard mark (for those who care about the energy figures).
Game changer.
Tough to beat a 7 Rem Mag for 500 yards on deer/elk. Remington will be tight twisted enough to run whatever bullets you want.
I disagree. I think it would be hard to beat a 7mm RUM for a long range Elk round given the high BC of a 160gr 7mm bullet and the velocity of the 7mm RUM Cartridge.
A 7mm Rem. Mag would be my second round followed by a .280 AI. JMHO, though.
I have a .280AI and another on the way that I use at those ranges but not on elk but I'm sure it would be up for the job.
Why not re chamber one of your .30-06's to an improved chamber ?
There are some better than the AI, .30-06 Gibbs, .30-06 ICL Carabu are good wild cats that will spice up a plain 06
06 with 155 scenars or 190 LR Accubonds. Spend your hard earned cash on optics . Then go shoot.
700wsm with a 162 amax is a pretty hard round to beat at long range. They pack quite the punch�.
Oh leelou, you're such a chip off the old block!
Oh leelou, you're such a chip off the old block!
my daddy would be proud of me
Am I wrong there Mr. MacGyver?
"Best",
LL30
I'm thinking of buying a Cooper for elk and mule deer and LR for me is 4-500 yards. I was looking at a 6.5-284 and after doing some research it seems that barrel life is about 1000 rounds, I don't want to spend that kind of money only to have to replace the barrel.
I don't want a magnum and was thinking about a 280 shooting 168 grain LR Accubonds, please tell me what you think or recommend a caliber. I have five 30-06's so I don't want another one. Thanks.
.............I see two issues here with your above original post. Just reading between the lines so to speak.
Imo, you are either looking for a good excuse to buy another rifle chambered in another cartridge, (which is ok) OR maybe, you don`t have much confidence in using any of your five `06s @ 400-500 yards for mule deer and elk? Both?
Well imo, unless you go with a magnum, there are not enough
advantages gained by going to another non magnum round for the use you describe.
Just because the word magnum is included in the name of any particular magnum round, does not mean that it cannot be loaded down to non magnum levels. Cannot do the reverse.
Either stick with your `06s or get a magnum IF you buy another rifle. Use the most accurate magnum loads when hunting and reduce the charges a bit when at the bench.
No reason to get another rifle unless the advantages are more pronounced.
I have to be in the 7mag camp. I would get one and have a good recoil pad put on it and shoot the 160gr Nosler LR AccuBond. That's a hard combination to beat and it will easily kill an elk. powdr
I have to be in the 7mag camp. I would get one and have a good recoil pad put on it and shoot the 160gr Nosler LR AccuBond. That's a hard combination to beat and it will easily kill an elk. powdr
They don't make a 160 LR accubond.
Was thinking the same thing. A 160 AB is flat shooting out to the ranges posed by the OP. I may be setting my 7 WSM up with a 160 AB and a Leupold CDS for the same reason/purpose..........
Heck, I would go with a 280 Remington or 7RM and boringly reliable partitions and not look back...
Guys thanks, woofer I will give them a call, Form, none but I plan on shooting about 200 rounds/year and don't want a shot out barrel on a very expensive rifle in 5 years!
I do not know your background, so no offense intended with the suggestions, but just keying off the comment above.
Friendly suggestion, buy a 308 and several cases of match ammo. fwiw - Federal makes Gold Medal Match in 30-06 since you already have those rifles.
Try practicing at least 2 - 3 times a month, 20 - 50 rounds per session, first
mastering 1" dots at 100 yards and not off a bench, especially the true cold bore shot. Then work on 2" dots at 200, and keep stretching it out.
The 308 or 30-06 will comfortably take deer out to 500 if you have mastered shooting and shot placement, and you will have to work to wear out a barrel.
I don't hunt elk, so will leave that to others.
The journey to master shooting is an enjoyable endeavor in itself.
If you master the 308 and want some more horsepower, 7 WSM is a wonderful round. Bullet weights 160 or above ran better in all four that I had and they definitely put a thump on animals. One rifle really liked 150 Barnes as well.
Good luck and have fun.
Thanks guys for all your helpful advice. Big Squeeze pretty much hit it on the head, I want to buy a new rifle and didn't have much confidence in the 06 at 500 yards, I'm sure I'm wrong on the last one.
I bought a SS Sako A7 off KillerTraylor from this sight and I didn't even get to shoot it when I saw a NIB Sako Tecomate in 300 WSM at a SD Cabelas and bought it. I'm pretty good on the magnums now. My go to 06 is a Weatherby Ultralight that shoots real good with 150's and 165's, it starts to kick real good with 180's. I'm going to New Foundland for moose in 2015 and can only take two rifles, its going to be a tough decision. I'll let you guys know how I make out. Thanks again.
You'll never notice the difference in recoil between a standard weight 300 WSM and the Ultralight 30-06. The extra 200-300 fps will be a step up in performance. With the better bullets today you can probably use a good 150-165 gr bullet in the 300 and be just as well off as a standard 180 bullet with less recoil.
...... I want to buy a new rifle and didn't have much confidence in the 06 at 500 yards, I'm sure I'm wrong on the last one.
Ever see an elk hit with a 30/06 and a good bullet at 400-500 yards?
I promise, you wouldn't want to be the elk.
Guys thanks, woofer I will give them a call, Form, none but I plan on shooting about 200 rounds/year and don't want a shot out barrel on a very expensive rifle in 5 years!
This does not a competent long range shooter make , burning up barrels is part of the deal. That being said , I would not hesitate for one second to take one of your 06's and kill everything that you can see at 500 yards.
Was talking to a guy at work yesterday he says "I hate 30-06" , I say why? He says , "its over rated", I changed the topic to strippers as that conversation was going nowhere
BCJR--I never said I only shoot 200 rounds a year, just with that rifle. I own about 20 rifles and shoot them all year round adding up to a sizeable number of rounds in a year!
Guess I'm a little late, see you already purchased a 300WSM, I was going to throw in my suggestion about a 280 Ackley, I recently put one together and I couldn't be more pleased. It really handles the 160 Accubonds well. No problem breaking clay birds at 500 meters very consistently.