Anyone know the low velocity threshold for opening a 155 or 168 Amax on deer-sized game? I'm shooting these out of a 1:12 handgun, so mv is low, and I'm looking wondering whether 1600 is too slow to open on deer or bigger.

C'mon, chicken....

The 168 below 1600fps,does Venison no favors.

Have never recovered one..................

The Amax is probably perfect for your hand gun. They kill at extreme ranges where the velocity is low.

I hear good things..............

I haven't put any through the gun yet, but this is what I was hoping to hear. There's a local shop that just got a bunch of 168s in.

I've seen that soft bullets at slow speed act like hard bullets at fast speed, i.e. they open in a controlled manner, fragment much less, and make a long wound channel.

I'm really "surprised" you've never shot said bullet.

Laughing!............

I haven't shot said gun. I wait until I have them before I shoot them. Maybe it works different in AK. As far as 30 cals go, I'm not all horned up for the 308, so much of my jacketed bullet testing and hunting has been with 180+. Why shoot a BC .47 when I can shoot a BC .57?

The only thing you shoot is your mouth and Imagination,though in no particular order.

Feel free to Pretend about "all" your 30cal bullet "testing",in any chambering you are comfortable to Imagine. It will be funny!

Yep...them 168's are "rare".

Laughing...............

Keep it down. I can hear you slurping from here.

It IS a hilarious constant,that them who do the least...get horned up the first.

I reckon it plum awkward for you to Pretend about bullets.

Laughing!...............

They work fine.

Shot placement trumps power.

From some culling during the drought.

I hear good things..............

Nice neck shot. Of course with the bullet placement, so long as it's accurate, bullet choice would make little difference.

Yep.

Shot placement with a handgun will be the issue to worry about in this situation, not the bullet.

AS,

Thank you, yes, base of the neck at the junction of the cervical and thoracic spine.

Shot placement is the intersection of accuracy with knowledge of anatomy.

Lots of combos work well with it, and few work well without it.

Never owned a 308 pistole,but shot 'em.

We all toted XP-100's in 7-08.

Weren't even fair...which is about how I like to roll...............(grin)

208 amax 30 cal will not open at 1100 fps. But I've seen a few of them get bent sideways and crack the jacket a bit in the backstops.

Never heard of them

Laughing!.............

Good shooting, Jeff. I've been researching that shot this year, and planning to give it a try during the hunt. I've always been a heart/lungs/ribs shooter, and I prefer to shoot soft bullets.

Roughly how big would you call the kill zone right there where the cervical meet the thoracic vertebrae? I don't like to waste any meat if I can help it, so I avoid shoulders.

Wow.

It is hilarious you ask someone else how big a Deer's head is,so you can Pretend with bullets you've never shot,to salve your Imagination.

THAT is phuqqing funny!....................

Thank you HnS, that was my wife driving the rifle while I ran video.

The impact area for the spine in that area is about the size of an orange.

The first photo below is an example of the impact size and meat loss to that area, which is not much. The photo obviously is after removal of the legs and backstrap. This photo was a hunter shooting off of sticks, and had them go for a broadside, high shoulder shot. Going through the shoulders increases the impact to the skeletal system and increases the target size. 308 with 175 SMK, 100 yard shot, dropped where it stood. Minimal meat loss, and no tracking required. Gloves used for quick cleanup as there is no water on that ranch. Phil Wilson drop point with 3" blade doing the work for size reference.

For purely meat hunting, brain shots are optimal if they can be made reliably.



For some comfort of combining what you have been doing with moving more into the spinal impact, the placements shown below combine the best of both with a good margin for error. These are primarily spinal impact, but with an increased target size area just in case something goes wrong.

Quartering at the hunter on the front edge of the shoulder will impact the spine, and then go through the chest cavity behind the off side shoulder with very minimal meat loss. This shot placement has lots of margin for error, and they are going down where they stand, or not very far.

Meat gets shot in the face,Trophies get broken shoulders..................

HnS, notice how Jeff likes the spine shots. His high shoulder shots also hit the spine. Nothing produces DRT like a hit to the CNS.

You're a dipshit, and you prove it more often than not. Not in what you know, but in what you think you know that YOU DO NOT.

Thanks for wasting more space on the web doing nothing but salving your wounded self through the pointless attack of others. Well done. Your daddy would be proud.

Sweetheart,

Your oblivious Assault on yourself is phuqqing HILARIOUS!

"Hey,can anyone tell me how "big" a Deer's head is...because I'm Pretending about bullets again".

EPIC humor!

Take notes and apply same,because it will much help your game.

Hint................

Jeff, thanks for your input, and for the detailed information. Those highlighted photos are great! It is a different perspective for me to aim for bone, so I've been looking at how various guys do it, and how well various shots work. I've killed everything with ribs shots, or some quartering variation, and have avoided neck shots and shoulders altogether, but like I said, I'm looking at other options, and their usual results.

I really appreciate the feedback, Jeff, and Sniper. It looks like even at mild speeds, any bullet that can do CNS damage to the spine is the way to go. I understand this intellectually, but am unfamiliar with the practice of it, because I've always shot for and hit heart/lungs. It is a high margin of error shot, and has been really comfortable for me, but as I look at using cast bullets at moderate speeds, or handguns, I have been looking at how others do it, and what they aim for.

A CNS shot is likely going to be the best shot for me with 'light' equipment, in the high-shoulder/spine/neck juncture. Seems to be a fairly large target and very predictable result.

Just ordered 500 of those 168 Amaxes to use in my 30-06. These ones have green tips. Couldn't pass them up at the price.

I don't eat lungs, seems to work out!

I never liked chasing schit.

I don't eat ear holes.

Hint................

Yes that would be another way

However, I have not chased a double lunged Deer yet shot by a 178 A-Max, we shall see!

H&S, as you start shooting greater distances you will adopt a new mindset, and new equipment. MOA is no longer acceptable. You add dials, magnification higher BC bullets, and perhaps velocity. Push a high BC bullet hard, and at close range it will make a real mess of things, so you have to adopt. Those dials that work so great for LR shots also eliminate the guess work on the 250yd neck shot, and the mess that would go along with said fast, soft bullet on a traditional shoulder shot, and any thoughts of tracking.

I've never not seen lung pokes,fully engage 4-Wheel Drive and watch schit travel. 'Course I'm not playing Haybale & Crockett in the pasture,either.

Hint...............

Very well said, spot on.

Disconnect the central nervous system and/or break the spine or shoulders, and it is quick and swift for the animal, and easy and pleasant for the hunter. I do not like the mid-neck as I have seen them paralyzed, but alive. Go for the base of the neck, or the brain.

Here is shot placement to the brain.

I have seen that alot too and with a bunch of good "Deer" bullets.
But only saying that with the 178 A-Max the travel is very minimal and never had to trail, not bang flops but it appeared 4-wh drive was not engaged.Beanfield, hayfield, highline ROW, doesn't seem to matter much.
Longer range CNS is great though.
Only reporting what I have actually experienced with that particular bullet.

Yeah it is a combination. My equipment limitations prescribe the distance I'm willing to shoot. I've been plenty comfortable taking ribs shots with a rifle and high bc bullets at close range and at the limits of my equipment for distance. That also ends up being the limit of my shooting ability. Lungs are a big target, and I haven't needed to know all of the exacting info to make a good hit.

I'm still trying to decide if I want to spend the money to step into the next bracket of distance shooting at game. I've actually been downgrading to cast bullets, setting up and practicing with handguns for hunting, which is what this thread is about. I know today that I could put a bullet into the ribs/lungs of an elk with a handgun at 200yds, and with the ballistics of an Amax, I could double that distance for lethality, if I wanted to get proficient enough to make it a viable proposition.

I am headed more toward upgrading my handgun skills than upgrading my rifle/optic and rifle skills. A magnum 7 distance rig is in the cards though, as that is an itch that needs more scratching. It's a lot easier to solve now that there are so many who're doing it and who've done it a long time.

What's the problem with MOA?

Let me clarify. 1 MOA groups, (or the traditional 1" at 100 yards) are no longer acceptable.

ANY bullet into the lungs,will engage 4-Wheel Drive.

It weren't maligning the 178...rather it's location.

Hint................

I've always liked to drill shoulders.

red/orange and blue/green color blind. Big lumps of deer are easier to spot on the ground than trackin through the leaves.

Meat gets another hole in the head,Trophies get shoulders crushed..............

And your point is well taken & I agree, I do like the shoulder shot. Just saying that out to 250 or so when you drill the lungs it is more destructive than anything I have seen in a 308 & so far every Deer has been Jellied big time, no lungs there to run with & yea they will move but just enough to try a mini plow, I don't think one has gone over 30 yds. as yet and blood everywhere. Farther range than 250 or so I go with a shoulder shot and has been great. And yes for almost any load I do the shoulder shot, hard to run with no front wheels.

Haybale & Crockett is farrrrrrrr more forgiving of 4-Wheel Drive.



Hint..................

Well that's true if around hay, not much but again point is well taken, terrain matters

I don't know anything about shooting Haybale&Crockett. I hunt steep up and down stuff, with patches of thick around. I've always taken ribs shots. People I hunt with take ribs shots. I've not seen the 4 WD you are referring to. I've just not seen a lung shot dash that lasted that far. Thinking no farther than 60yds, and usually more like 25ft. Not crying BS, just saying I have never seen it. I'm also a believer in keeping on shooting until stuff falls. Have seen a tendency for many people to take a shot, and if it is good, they 'pose' like on the hunting shows, and watch the animal stumble off, waiting for it to go down. I taught myself to work the action and keep shooting.

I believe Big Stick's point was in some extreme terrain a shoulder shot was superior because it would stop the animal right there & I hunt places like that a little and would do the same, but not where I hunt Whitetails with that rifle and load I was speaking of. In some places even 10 yards traveled changes alot if they fall down a ravine.