Planning on using the 180gr Scenar-L this year for hunting, starting next week in Wyoming. There isnt much on game reports out there for the fairly recent 7mm Scenar, but am pretty confident as i've used and seen the 155 30cal in action.And we're all aware that Pat has killed enough game with that bullet to stock a zoo..

I did a cut away to see the guts of the bullet..Pretty much what I expected with the Scenar, long hollow cavity..Looks like the 155, so I like what I see.May try to anneal the tip on these mid-way through the season..Just to see WTF

L-R, 150 Scenar,180 Scenar and a 168 Berger for comparison.(photo sucks,as per always when i'm the photographer)

Whatcha ya pushing that 180 gr 7mm out of?

Rem 700 in 7mm Weatherby, At Just a tad over 3k out its 24" barrel.

Hoping my son gets results on a mule deer with that bullet in October. They are amazingly accurate in a 9 twist. We are getting around 2860 easily with H1000. I may use that 168 berger in December on something and betting it does fine too.

That'll work.

I'd hate to hit a skinny little okie white tail with one of these big 230 Bergers but if one steps out in the back 120 I may have to test one.

"Amazingly accurate" were my thoughts as well. The Weatherby chamber can sometimes be a pain, but this bullet just wants to fly, everything i've tried components wise has been acceptable..Even if I end up not liking it on game, I think Lapua knocked it out of the park as a target bullet...I never got the 180 berger to shoot fer chit out of this rifle.

Have you used the 150s much? What are your thoughts on it? I've been thinking of trying them in my 7mm-08.

I've only ever used them on paper/steel..They shot really good for me too.

I may or may not have a kill report with the 180's shortly..Going to bow hunt, so hopefully i'll be done before the rifle even opens.

168gr berger vld?hybrid?

Not Rosco, but the 168 Hybrid did very well for me accuracy wise. The 180 Scenar seems to be as good or better.

Thanks for the cut away of the projectiles. Those Scenars look like they would perform well.

Classic hunter.

I used the 180 Scenar on a pronghorn yesterday..Graphic, it took the offside shoulder off. Shot was made from nearly 70 yards

Tell me how you can tell how they will perform on game by looking at the jackets? I am curious how you guys evaluate performance on game from looking at the jackets of target bullets?

I am not being a smart ass....I wold like to know because I am used to looking at the construction of bullets designed for BG hunting.






Rosco: Nice shot! at least you were ready to go long if you needed to.

BobinNH
It's easy-If the bullet jacket came in a box that has "Partition" on it, it'll work great.

Fred I think we pretty much know what those will do.

But seriously I look at the cutaways Rosco posted....I see a variation in the size of the cavities. The jackets look about the same thickness,and not much difference in jacket tapers from front to back.Also wondering what the jacket and core materials are (alloys or lead/copper;brittle or malleable) which effects expansion characteristics.(?)

For example I have been told (and read on here) that the Berger comes in different styles and the hunting bullets have thinner jackets than the target bullets to expand better. I am just wondering what Lapua built into the design of the bullet that makes it a good hunting bullet....and how we can tell looking at the construction that we know it will perform well on animals.

Also wondering why Rosco wants to anneal them.Is that to make the jackets softer so they expand better?

Yes that was the reason..However,I no longer want to anneal them..They expand just fine ha.

The entrance was hard to find, just a .284" hole. Somewhere in the chest cavity all hell broke loose, it literally took off his offside shoulder on the exit..I took a pic for this post. but dont think i'll put it up, just think vollyball size hole where the shoulder WAS.

I suspect they will expand at distance, too!


Looking at those jackets, I am not surprised...they look thin! I know you had them hustling too.

No thanks. I like putting meat in the freezer, not wonder where it all went....

The reason I wanted to look inside the bullet is I wanted to see the hollow cavity..From prior experience those long hollow cavities give you 2-4" of penetration before they start to come apart,even on bone. which is exactly what the scenar did yesterday..If I ever use them on something as small as a pronghorn again, i'll keep them off the shoulders on exit.I do want to try them on some bigger stuff, I hadnt planned on hunting elk this year but might have to..



So looking at the construction did give me an idea of what was going to happen before shooting game with it..Of course they dont always penetrate before expanding, seen that first hand a few times with bergers.

Rosco you think they might be a bit soft for elk up close?

Then I suppose you keep bullets off the shoulders and would be just fine, even with a Scenar..Even tho it was a graphic sight, I lost no more meat than I did on the last lope I shot in the shoulder with a Barnes bullet.

Shoot them in the shoulder bones, you're going to lose some of that delicious sinew that they are made up of.I knew that going into it, believe it or not..

I dont think so, I know lope are small animals but it went through a decent amount of bone and exited, from 70 yards..My thinking is it would work just fine on elk.I'll be using them on my next rifle elk hunt.


Just wanted to add, my friend used a 7RM and 150 scirocco, pretty much the same shot, 120 yards..We found the bullet jacket in the chest cavity..

Mmm.....the SS II is supposed to be a "bonded" bullet and jacket and core should stay together.

Wonder what happened there?

Don't know.. Seen it with accubonds before too.. The swifts have always had a huge mushroom IME..

That is the second S2 I've seen caught by a pronghorn at close range, first one was out of a 300RUM,but it had a picture perfect mushroom, just minimal penetration.

Bob
Looking at the jacket thickness/shape and hollow cavity helps determine how the bullet might react and expand when being shot into an animal. Having shot a number of animals with the berger vld I am going to be trying a few other bullets also. You need to remember that a bullet such as this is designed to penetrate and then open causing massive trauma. The scenar and hybrid bergers are know to also stay together a bit better and exit.
Not being a smartass but how can you tell a partition will kill looking at the construction of it?

805: Thanks for the explanation!

To answer your question on the Partition,it's pretty simple but maybe Nosler says it better than I can :


Partition Bullet
PARTITION BULLET

1 Nosler Engineering
Nosler�s special lead-alloy, dual-core provides superior mushrooming characteristics at virtually all impact velocities.

2 Fully Tapered Copper-Alloy Jacket
Ruptures instantly at the thin jacket mouth, yet the gradual thickening along the bullet�s axis controls expansion and curls the jacket uniformly outward at high and low velocities.

3 Nosler�s Integral Partition
Supports the expanded mushroom and retains the rear lead-alloy core. The enclosed rear core retains more than two-thirds of the original bullet weight for deep penetration.

4 Dual-Core Construction
Every Partition� bullet in the Nosler� line delivers optimum length, weight and ogive design for maximum in-flight and terminal performance.

5 Special Crimp Locks
Adds strength to resist deformation under the pressure of heavy magnums.


Edited to add: I just went to the Lapua web site to learn something about the Scenar. It seems it has been designed and refined as a target bullet for competition, and not as a game bullet, like a Partition. At least Lapua makes no mention of its use as a hunting bullet. It seems Lapua makes other bullets for that.

I can only conclude from this that its effectiveness on game is more "accident" than intentional by design. So my question was a valid one, since I was wondering what characteristics a guy looks for when evaluating a target bullet for use on BG animals,since the target bullet was not designed by its maker for that purpose? I really don't know what you look for under those circumstances.

Bob
Thanks for the explanation!

Simply put any bullet into the vitals causing damage is going to be pretty good for a kill. There's more than one way to skin a cat. I prefer the accuracy and results of the vld type bullets. I have used many bullet types though.

Bob,

I believe 805 and Rosco did a great job explaining how a a bullet might react when hitting game. I liked the Scenar cut away Rosco posted, because it showed the jacket thickness and bullet tip cavity compared to a Berger Hunting Classic Hybrid. Kinda gives you an idea of the construction of the projectile and how it might penetrate.

Rosco is simply sharing his findings, performance, and outcome on thin skin animals. I was going to ask him why anneal tip; However, he answered that already. The reason some like to use target bullets on game is because of their accuracy and BC. As 805 mention if you can put any bullet into the vitals, it will be a good kill.

It also depends what you're hunting as well.

Bob,Lapua has never made a recommendation of the Scenar as a game bullet, I suspect they never will. I dont think they care..Like you said they have bullets like the Oryx that are great game bullets,and are popular with the Scandinavians that use the bulk of them.

Interestingly enough, Berger never recommended their bullets for hunting either, in fact it never crossed Walt's mind that his bullets would become popular hunting bullets, but he got enough feedback that they started marketing them as hunting bullets.

But wouldn't you know, Lapua has had basically the same bullet design since what, 1918? I dont know without looking it up, but they go back at least to the 20's when that feller won the Wimbledon with a 300 H&H, using Lapua Scenar bullets.

Using that info, one can assume, with a bit of testing that the Scenar might work pretty good as a hunting bullet, even tho the manufacturer dont market them as such.

To a lesser extent the SMK is in the same category, in fact I can distinctly remember Craig Boddington being flogged by readers/internet types for recommending the SMK for hunting..Even tho I suspect his personal opinion has not changed, I bet if he ever uses an SMK again it will suddenly become a partition in his written document, because of the public outcry he got when Sierra didn't back him up.

The sectioned bullets show that they are nothing more than a cup and core bullet and are extremely similar to the Bergers as well as the SMK's.

Here is a 123gr 6.5 Scenar that hit soft dirt at 1000 yds. Didn't know where else to post this. Thought it was a neat find though. The ones that were hitting steel were mangled like usual.