I'm thinking of building me a 6.5 - something or other. I'm tossing out the question here to get some feedback/ suggestions / education / information to help me decide which one.

My goals are:

-Consistent 500 and in shooter.
-Occasional target and hunting out further - hunting to around 700 and target out to 1000 (further if I can find a place to shoot that far)
-cases fairly easy to find off the shelf or to make from off the shelf brass
-Can handle a wide variety of bullet styles
-Built on a 700 or Mauser long action (because I have those already)
-muzzle velocity of 3000 or slightly more with a 140 gr
- sporter-weight barrel

What I'd like to find out is:

- what cartridge and why?
- barrel length
- anything else I should be thinking of in regards to the 6.5 cartridges.

Thanks in advance.

I like the 264WM and have a Remington 721 with a 30" barrel. I have reached 3261fps with a Woodleigh 160gr PPSN so this will put you in the velocity range you want. A 26" barrel also works will with the 264WM, Most will say that barrel life is a issue with the 264 but it depends a lot on how you shoot. I shoot 85gr HP, 95gr Vmax, 100gr HP, 100gr Ballistic tip, 130gr VLD and the 160gr PPSN so there is a wide range of bullets that you can experiment with. There are a lot of 6.5's out there that will work.

Assuming your long actions are '06 bolt face, I'd go 6.5-06, or if you hate case trimming enough, the Ackley version of the same. One pass through the 6.5-06 die with a .270 case and you're done. 8" twist, of course…

John

26 Nos, 26" Shilen Match.

Because it be fast...

And easy to load for using ultra slow powders, US-869 the best so far.

I have a 6.5x55, 98 FN Mauser/23" Shilen and a 6.5-284 M-70/26" Krieger. These are both great guns and I like them a lot.

Because the 26 Nos is my latest, it's the one I'm working with currently. And, the one I'm working with at he moment is always my "favorite".

DF

+1. I was going to say .260 Rem until you included 1,000 yards and the long action. You'll get an extra 100 fps with the AI if you want it.

Why not a 6.5/284?

Agreed. The clear winner once you said long action, IMO.

I obviously like the 6.5-284. The 6.5-'06 would probably feed smoother than the 6.5-284 without tweaking the rails and follower, doing some smith work on the action. That said, it's not that big a deal to have a LA smoothly feeding the fatter 6.5-284 round.

DF

I had someone to suggest a 6.5x257AI to me once but I haven't tried it yet.

You're 3rd requirement is the main reason.

the 6.5-.280AI comes quite close to the capacity & performance of the 6.5 GAP/SAUM with a longer neck to help mitigate throat erosion.

There's zero practical difference between the powder capacity of .270 and .280 cases, in fact it's so small a difference in the weight of brass can cause some overlap. Also, one of his requirements is fairly easy to get brass.

My vote would be for the 6.5/.270, whether standard or AI. There's no ballistic difference between it and the 6.5-06 or 6.5/.280, but the neck's the longest of any, reducing throat erosion. And you can just run .270 brass into the sizer and not have to trim off a bunch, as you do with the 6.5/06.

Off-the-shelf brass is hideously expensive and .284 Win. brass can be hard to find.

my 260AI and 6.5-06's run pretty close in speeds. either will do what you want, as will the x47 and creed.....some will do it faster, some will do it longer....

a rig that doesn't crack a throat at 100 rounds is a bonus. It will be a coin toss between more math or more frequent barrel swapping.

If you likes Lapua brass you pays the price...

And you don't have to find .284 brass, just order 6.5-284 brass.

If headstamps don't matter and you aren't easily embarrassed, JB's 6.5-270 solution sounds good. That could be a creative use for .270 brass...

DF

Ahhhh, that would be the "off-the-shelf" brass I mentioned, correct?

And it's all expensive, not just Lapua. Hornady, Nosler, Norma, all well over $1/case.

Makes sense.

I'm just asking...never owned any of them.

Lots of good options. The Big 26 would sure be fun but it would be expensive to feed.

Yep.

I at one time thought 6.5-284 brass was expensive.

I at one time complained about Wby. brass prices, even went to the trouble to get a CH4D die to swage .25-06 W/W cases costing fifty cents into .240 Wby brass, costing a buck fifty. Now, I can't find fifty cent W/W .25-06 brass. I get the feeling when that brass eventually resurfaces, it won't be fifty cents any longer.

Then, I became interested in the 26 Nos. Even at SPS blem prices that brass is over two bucks a copy. But, it's very concentric, very high quality, already prepped, etc. etc....

At least that's what I keep telling myself.

So, I guess it's all relative...

DF

It really doesn't matter what you thought was expensive or what I think is expensive. Bob asked the question, I gave an answer. It's just one factor out of many for the OP to consider in making his choice.

6,5x55.

500.000+ target shooters in Scandinavia cant be wrong.


Cheap 6,5x55 Lapua brass. Feeds very well in Mauser actions ( I am thinking of making one myself! )

I think you need 2 rifles a 500 and less and a 500 and more!

You can quote me on it to the wifey !

A 6.5 Creedmoor for short range and a .26 Nos for long range.

Mike

Very true.

You think Bob is being drawn to the 6.5 camp...??

DF

Yep, it's been going on for some time now. I didn't want to be the first to say anything......

Best answer yet!

Yeah, looks like he's sniffing around, asking some good questions...

DF

Have to agree on that, the 6.5x64 Brenneke chambering will simplify things ( aka 6.5-.270 )

6.5-.280 AI is also available from Nosler without major forming issues other than necking down.

all good fun - I'm looking at re-chambering a .260 out to the 6.5-280AI hence my narrow focus on the AI.
Also I have buckets of .280 brass, and no .270 ;-)

Yeah, when I had a 6.5-06 built I had buckets of .270 brass! That's definitely a factor....

I have been nosing around a bit. I had a hard time hanging on to 3 264's, not because I did not like them but felt I was pretty well covered with 7mm mags in that category.

I am going on what I read here but if I were to leap into a 6.5 I would get a 6.5 Creedmoor. I am told the Hornady factory ammo is hard to beat and that's one factor.My match shooting friends say that's how to roll in a short action cartridge.

Another shoots a 6.5/284,which is why I asked about it. He says it has "eyes" at 1000. His is a Barnard (sp?) action. He says the only drawback is that it eats barrels but my application would be in a hunting rifle so not sure that's a huge factor.

I'd do a 'Swede in a heartbeat, on a long action. In my mind it's a well balanced chambering, long neck, plenty of oal latitude, and good barrel life.

Tough to out perform a 7mm Mashburn w/ 160's and 175's
the 6.5 Creedmoor is about as sweet as it gets in a 2.8" mag SA
With a little longer mag the .260 or .260AI appeal !

the 6.5/.284 has established itself : short neck notwithstanding it is the standard. The 6.5 SAUM/GAP is the coming thing !

The 26 Nos - Wow

just my take on things ...

Easy choice for me....6.5 SAUM.

Yep.

Sounds like Bob is coming around...

The 26 Nos is a hoot, for sure. I've had loads of fun working with a couple of them.

The 6.5 SAUM looks really good. I'm sure it will have better barrel life than the 26 Nos and for Pat's use, I can see how he'd be all over it.

I don't shoot nearly that much and once I get loads worked up, probably won't fire it more than 20-30 times a year. My hunting bud with the other 26 Nos, will use his about the same. So, for old coots like us, our barrels should last a lifetime...

DF

DF, what speeds are you getting with 140gr class bullets with your 26N?

6.5x284 that's all that needs said

3,300 without pushing it.

Probably better than that with "Fire" pressure...

It's a big ole case and even when Nosler denotes compressed load, it's not a compressed load. Brass is expensive but outstanding quality, like match brass. Very uniform necks, etc.

You about gotta go with US-869 or WC-872 powders and I use WLRM primers. With those powders, accuracy comes easy, like 1/2 MOA with several combos. It seems real forgiving in that regard, not finicky.

120 E-Tips run around 3,450 fps and are deadly killers on hogs and WT's, in fact it's hard to tell a difference in terminal performance between them and 140 NPT's/140 NAB's at 3,300.

Double Tap factory ammo runs 127 LRX's at 3,600 fps. With 91 gr. 869, a Fire contributor clocked 3,575 fps and reported 3/8" groups. His 3,600+ loads weren't quite that accurte. I have a batch loaded, ready to go. Will report.

DF

You need to try some 140 JLK's.

Have you tried H1000, or Retumbo?

I've Had my comp 6.5 SAUM one week, and have put 465 rounds through it already....hope I have some barrel left for my shoot next month..grin!

Wow, you'd be about 40% or more into the life of a 26 Nos tube...

You gotta remember, I'm a hunter not a LR steel clanger. I don't know what kinda terminal perfromance I'd see with JLK's. I do have some left over from my 6.5-284 project and may load a batch.

My Fire bud, who's also working with the 26, was pleased with 136L Scenar, getting great groups and good performance on hogs. Then he tried the 127 LRX. That bullet seems to run faster than about any and has fairly decent B.C.'s for it's type. He's about decided that at hypervelocity, he has more confidence in mono-metals.

From everything I've read and seen, 869 is THE 26 Nos powder, with 872 pretty close. 872 is reportedly slower, but I can't tell much difference. To me they're just about interchangeable. One would think Retumbo, RL-50, etc. would work. They do, just not as well.

DF

DF,
Did your buddy shoot anything other than hogs with the Scenar 136L? Interested in its applicability for deer and antelope and/or anything bigger.
Thanks,
Marty

IIRC, hogs were his main laboratory test animals...

He liked their performance and accuracy.

DF

Thanks!

Scenars are great bullets, just ask Pat.

I have 136L and 139 Scenars. The 139 is the bullet of choice for my 6.5x55. I'm still shooting 140 Berger Hunting VLD's in my 6.5-284 at around 3K with RL-17; been too busy with the 26 to mess with that one. Actually it shoots too good to switch...

I think the concern my friend had was speed and how a bullet would perform with a less than ideal shot. I learned from Berger that they don't want their 140 Hunting VLD's running much over 3,100 fps., in fact their top 26 Nos load data for that bullet maxed at 3,150. I talked to a tech and told him I could easily push that bullet to 3,300+ before I started leaning on it. He then said maybe I should use the heavier jacketed Target VLD's. That's about the time I pulled my test VLD bullets and moved on.

We're thinking 3,500-3,600 fps may be a good fit for mono-metals. But, we've changed horses before and the research continues...

I think Scenars will stand more speed then Bergers, just how much more I don't know.

What I don't know far exceeds what I do know...

This is all new to me and to those working with this round. The 26 Nos is a lot of fun, a screaming laser beam...!

DF

It is silly to run a 6.5 mm bullet more than about 3100 or so when you can step up to a 7mm with the infinitely better bullets- this coming from a hard-core 6.5 shooter. 6.5-284, 6.5-06 and similar are about all you should do with this caliber. A 7WSM is a shoulder better in performance than a 6.5-284 if you can stand the recoil.

The 6.5-284 and 260AI are very easy to get to shoot well. Never fired a Creedmoor but it's probably great too. Been working with a 6.5x47L and it is a real dog. Too bad.

Well, you make a good point.

It is fun to blow the living chit out of a critter...

gunner500 said it reminded him of a big .220 Swift...

The LR guys will claim the wind issue should be easier with the extra velocity. The target guys will complain about barrel life.

I still like my 7's, haven't given up on them. To me, going over 140 gr., I step up to a seven. Some may take issue with that. I know long, heavy for caliber is a trend, but it gets harder to maintain velocity with those. Jump a caliber and the speed is there.

BTW, if it was sane or if it made sense, it wouldn't be Loony...

DF

I've been running some JBM with different bullets of differing weights and BC's and velocities with the 6.5mm. I have bullets from 100 grain up to 142 grains to play with when I can. One of the cases holds 109 grains of water and the other 84 grains. The wind drift is my main concern. It seems there is only four to five inches at 700 yards difference with the highest BC from the 106HV and the 142 Matrix.

Lord will' I will be at the range this Thursday with the smaller case rifle. I will start with the 106. The heavier ones will be saved for the larger case. It's been too long of a wait.

Dog? How so?

My friend, get yourself a nice low round count pre 64, mod 70 Westener in .264 win mag, I was able to find a case or so 140 gr accubond ammo and some cheaper Rem core locs to use to zero a gun that had not been shot since Winchester stamped the WP on it. I do baby the gun, it wears a 4.5X 14 ,40 AO Leupold with the varmint reticule, I bore sighted the old way by taking the bolt out and 4 shots I was in the black at 100, 3 inch orange stick on target with 1/2 inch black diamond bull. I walk every shot to not heat the barrel.... I am all about the cold bore one shot at any range BUT 500 or less on SW GA whitetails. First trip to woods yielded a neck shot 200 lb freezer buck. I have dies but this factory ammo ( I bought for the brass)is so accurate I doubt I will hand load the gun...I am Winchester die hard but plenty can build on your Remmy... very best WinPoor

That would depend on what your purpose is, wouldn't it?

Seems there's a trade off between velocity and B.C. The really long for caliber, high B.C. bullets won't move as fast as lighter ones with lower B.C.'s.

So, which is the more potent factor, B.C. or velocity?

Seems a ballance is in order and for hunters, bullet construction and terminal performance enter into the equation.

That's why the 127 LRX looks pretty good for now as a high performance hunting bullet. It's fast, the B.C.'s aren't that bad and it has proven terminal performance, especially at high speeds.

That's why it's today's favorite.

Who can say what tomorrow's favorite may be.

DF

You must have accumulated a certain quantity of 7mm SAUM brass by now.
perhaps a 6.5 SAUM is in order?

Pat - what magazine length does that like ?

The more you write about it, the more I regret building a new 7mm..Shoulda just re barreled the old one and built the 6.5..

Damn you

From 2.820", to 2.945". COAL on the 136, and 139 scenar will be shorter than JLK's, Berger VLD's and Berger Hybrid bullets, with the same Base to ogive measurement because of the shorter ogive.

These loads will work in a short action with a Wyatt's box, or AI mags with the front plate removed. Accurate-Mag also manufactures a magazine without a front plate for .300WSM/.300SAUM that work well. Alpha Industries also makes an extended detachable mag that holds seven rounds, that's only slightly longer than a five round AI mag.

Say it taint so Joe. The 264 WM Woodleigh 160gr PPSN at 3261fps runs circles over any 7mm Rem Mag. Or you can go to the 6.5Pro and hit 3500fps with the 160gr bullet.

With the 6.5Pro energy is still over 3000 ft. lbs. at 300 yards.

I will have to be forgiven for asking.... how one gets 3261 fps from a 160 gr bullet in a 264 WM,when the exact same case will not give that velocity safely when necked up to 7mm?

What charges and how long a barrel does it take to do that?

Maybe he's shooting downhill????

42 inch barrel.

The higher velocity for the .26 is really only just a less more clicks on a scope turret in real life.

Depends on how far you're shooting. At some point the .308 class runs out of steam.

One can calculate and twist for distance, so faster rounds may not have a big advantage.

But, high velocity can make dealing with wind less of a guess.

DF

73gr of H570 that's my 3 shot average. I managed to score 3 lbs. of the old powder That they quit making. It does show signs of pressure but still ejects with ease. I am using a 30" barrel but when I use the book charge that was for the Hornady RN I match there 26" barrel very close.

I LOVE my 20" 47 Lapua

With just a 26" tube, I'd have to flog my 26 Nos to move a 160 at 3,260 fps. 140's shoot at 3,300 without leaning on'em.. .

Bet you have some interesting pressures and a very fast barrel...

DF

I have:
94 swede 6.5x55
96 swede 6.5x55 [I forged over bolt, drilled and tapped]
96 swede 6.5x55
38 swede 6.5x55
VZ24 with Douglas CM 10" twist 260 [I built this rifle]
FN98 with Shilen SS 9" twist 260 [I built this rifle]

I am currently building:
Dumoulin 98 Mauser with Shilen #3 SS 6.5 select match 8" Ratchet 6.5-06

The 6.5-06 reamer and dies were readily available.

I am really a 7mmRemMag person, but I build other rifles to see if I can do any better.

Current project in progress is my wildcat the 6.5 Wolf Killer that is off the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser case, maxed out case dimensions and shoulder pushed up to 35 degrees, ballistically similar to the 6.5-284 Norma and 6.5-06, case capacity is 65.0 gr h20,

Getting built on a Tikka T3 (in 6.5X55 Swede) with 5 rnd factory mags in a 24 oz. Manners Elite Hunter stock, Bartlein #3 8 twist 26" barrel

set up with 140 gr Berger Hybrids kissing the rifling with base of bullet bottoming out at base of neck without impacting case capacity and still able to run the 150 and 160 gr Matrix VLD bullets through the 5 rnd factory mags...

Forming the 6.5 Wolf Killer is easy, open case necks with 7mm-08 fl die then size down neck in 6.5 Swede fl die far enough to just stiffly close bolt and MOM bang the cases ...

6.5X55 Swede Lapua brass is almost half the $ of the 6.5-284 brass

6.5 x 50 caliber Browning...

Well.....signs of pressure and a 30" barrel...I guess I would not call that running rings around a 7mm Rem Mag.Hardly a valid comparison.

Guess again like I said when I run the Hornady load for there 160gr RN which is 71gr H570 at 3067fps from a 26" barrel I get a 3 shot average from my 30" barrel of 3095 with the same load, the 160gr PPSN which has a BC of .0509 compared to a BC of 0.283 so I would guess that the difference in speed is due to better bullets rather than barrel length.

Saved

You're losing me......are you talking about round nose bullets here?


What 7mm 160 has a BC of .283?

Do me a favor and run the actual numbers to 500-600 yards for each will you?Show e what bullet you're using and give me names not acronyms.Have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

I want to see what constitutes "running circles around the 7 RM" and you're moving around here to there with an extinct powder, pressures signs and a 30" barrel to get more velocity than any 264 Win Mag on the planet (I have never seen anyone hunting with a 30" barrel......anywhere) and 7mm bullets with a BC of .283 vs a BC of .509.

GHC no wonder the 7 Rem Mag killed the 264....the hunters grabbed the 7mm and the number crunchers clung to the 264.

Seems to me the 7RM filled a market niche and satisfied a
need, or at least a perceived need.

The .264WM from the beginning was a high performance, specialty item, whereas the 7RM seemed more mainstream. And, to me, the .264 was more finicky than the 7RM, which was easier to load for and more forgiving.

I know, .264 advocates have tweaked that round into some impressive performance, but history is history and the 7RM blew the .264 WM away in sales. Maybe the public wasn't yet ready for the 6.5 bore. Who knows. The 6.5 seems to be moving slowly forward these days. I have and like both calibers.

DF

Bob,

It's composed of having an agenda to push, lacking a working understanding of basic ballistic principles, and not having much regard for one's own face.

264 doesn't seem to understand that with appropriate powders, a given case will always drive a larger caliber bullet faster than a smaller caliber, in the same weight.

Careful.

That sounds like physics...

DF

BobinNH
With the Internet and without pressure data, all velocities are possible with 6.5 bullets. This is so because the basic laws of physics have been suspended.
Also 6.5 bullets have a certain mystical quality that allows the barrels to last at least twice as long as other bores.
NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

If I'm going bigger than a .260.... it's straight into the loving belt of the 7 Rem Mag. Any of the midsize 7s (SAUM,WSM, .280AI, Mash, Bee, x64, etc) are still the best big game rifles I can think of.... and the "160/.600/3k" box score is still where 'Long Range Hunting' rounds start for me.

.264 Win/SAUM/whatever can come close.... but it seems an aweful lot of fuss for 15-20% less payload downrange than the 162/168/180 7mm's.

To the OPs question....

Consistent 1-2 MOA 500 yard guns grow on trees, and rarely does caliber/head stamp have anything to do with hitting stuff at that range. I had a ball watching my mom and her friends beat steel out to 500 with my 20" .260 just last Saturday. Properly set-up, light recoiling rifles.... with good dope and reliable optics... will do a lot of work out to about 600.

On a long action... I'd probably go 23" 6.5/06, focus on the 123 Scenar/130 VLD in the 3050-3150 range. It'd recoil and kill like a .270 (which ain't a bad place to be).... but offer flatter trajectory and less drift across the board... though not a lot.

For a 1000 yard steel rig/700 yard hunting rifle.... I'd go 24" 7 Rem... or any of the above mentioned smaller/bigger brothers.

Jordan/RinB/DF/Dogshooter:

Thanks for clarification....now I understand. Thought I was losing more of my marbles than I already have...

Dogshooter I quite agree and am off to the range to shoot my 7 RM shortly.

The 160gr round nose bullet is the 6.5 Hornady RN bullet I was showing that the barrel does not make much difference and I do hunt with the 30" barrel. I am going to be 70 this fall and am 6'2" at 215 lbs. and can still pack a 12.5 lb. rifle where ever I choose to go. It is not a brush gun as I have a DPMS 338 Federal for the brush. I started hunting with the 264 in 1963 and it still is my favorite gun. I have hunted with a 7mm rem mag and do not like it. It collects a lot of dust. Here is the 500 yard numbers. Zero is 350 yards with +5.4" at mid range and -16.9 inches at 500 yards at 2368fps and 1992 ft. lbs. of energy at 500 yards with the 160gr PPSN. If I load the 160gr matrix bullet with a BC of 0.685 these numbers get better at 3261fps. With 350 yards as zero mid range is +3.3 inches and -2.9 inches with 2581fps and 2366 ft. lbs of energy at 500 yards

I, for one, don't like a large midrange arc, as I sometimes shoot at closer ranges. And, I don't want to be remembering to hold under.

I like a 250 yd. zero with my 26 Nos, which puts it around 1.5" top of arc and I twist over 400.

BTW, if you like pushing that .264, you'd love the 26...

Or Swamplord's 6.5 Pro. Now, that's an animal, for sure...

DF

My favorite is the .260AAR, or 6.5x257AI as some know it. I also really like the 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Remington mag, and close to the above the 6.5x284.

Swamplords 6.5Pro does it all with 3500fps on the 160gr matrix VLD and he has a company that will be building them for general sales.

I may have considered the 6.5 Pro if it had been further along in development. I guess those naysayers complaining about 26 Nos barrel life will have a field day with the Pro.

Oh well...

That's why barrels have threads...

The 26 does best with the slowest powders, like 869, 872. Any idea what Swamplord is burning in the Pro?

DF

Pixie dust and at about 80k psi..... or his chrony is off from muzzle blast.

Bet that thing blows the screens off his chrono...

DF

I did a Search for his 6.5 Pro loads.

He uses 27" and 31" Bartlein tubes with WS2 (Tunston Disulfide coatings), 100 gr. US-869 powder and 160 gr. Matrix VLD's, clocked with a magnetospeed chrono. at 3,500 fps.

DF

This thread is a treasure.

You infidels (non believers) .... hahaha !

The 6.5 Prometheus is indeed not for most of y'allz ....
It was a challenge I jumped into simply because every single fool said it can't or shouldn't be done ! So far it has given me the velocities I quoted and others are learning that the 6.5mm bullets have another sweet spot that is not attainable in any other factory cartridge .... not even the 26 Nosler ..... ( maybe just maybe if you toss the ridiculous 30-06 length bs and throat it properly)

same thing when I mentioned I might neck down my 338 Wolverine (338-500 Jeffery Imp) to 30 caliber ! Lots of chicken little the sky is falling types predicted horrific world end earthquakes and other bad stuff happening !
Well the 300 Werewolf growls and howls 230 gr Berger Hybrids at 3500 fps out of a 30" pipe !

I recently mentioned I'm necking down my 6.5 Wolf Killer to .224 cal (63.5 gr 20 cap) and there ya go, the Armageddon prophecies started anew , stainless steel barrels will supposedly melt after a three shot group ! Hell , I wanna see that !

Bottom line is this ........
If you don't have the balls or the cash (or nil on both) for these types of ventures I call adventures ....
please stand back and watch quietly, you just might learn something ! I most certainly have , even if the new knowledge is about the "fastest barrel burner alive " It is still a cool and fun expirement and stimulates the mind with ideas for new innovations in cartridges, projectiles and firearms ........

The cartridges I develop are for me and my use as I see fit, I do not need somebody's idea of "ethics" or "efficiency" or any other such nonsense ...... If some barrels get used up along the way we'll make muzzle brakes out of them, screw another barrel on via the highly innovative spiral grooves we call threads that actually allow you to replace barrels on a whim , dayummm ! who'da thunk it could be done ! maybe I should keep it a secret ?

Anyway ....
I necked up that offensive 6.5 PRO to 7mm and further improved it to 108.5 gr h20 capacity (my version of the 7mm-300 Norma Imp) 37* shoulder and a .327" long neck that sizzles them 180 gr Hybrids at 3400 fps (3300 fps accuracy load) now working with the 208 gr Alco RBT-ST bullets , with 195's on the way ....

put that in your barrel and smoke it !

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Its the metricness that does it.

Looking at the OP's post it doesn't look like he has money to burn or the most experience shooting long.
His "wants" fall well with in the capabilities of the more sedate 6.5 offerings even if a 140 at 3000 isn't in the cards.
Also as to the actions on hand they could easily be trade/sell fodder for a different action.
Reading between the lines and looking back to projects I've put together I think the OP would be better served with one of the short action 6.5's like the Lapua,Creed, or 260.
Making empties is where it is at and less is often more.

Interesting thread, for sure.

If the Pro needs a 30" bbl. to burn all that powder and perform as designed, maybe Nosler nailed it with the 26.

The 26 Nos case capacity may be about as much as one would want for a 26" barrel in a hunting size/hunting weight 6.5mm rifle for general use.

The Pro appears to be a very specialized set up for ultra LR shooting and maybe not ideal for general hunting use.

Just a thought.

DF

Never had a problem using a rifle with a barrel longer than 26". Few run around the woods with shotguns with 26 or shorter barrels.

The 30" Bartlein barrel was threaded, chambered/headspaced then removed and has not been back on yet,
All load data/velocity was obtained with the 27" Brux barrel which has a muzzle brake machined into the extra inch ......
That Brux barrel has 100 rounds of cream of wheat and 20 gr Blue Dot fireforming loads and 450 rounds of 160gr Matrix and Woodleigh bullets through it, I ran out of 160's and stopped shooting , got a couple boxes of the 150 gr Matrix VLD's but have not shot any yet, The last 40 round string shot with the 160 Matrix bullets was with 100 gr of US869 for an ave of 3500 fps with 3 shot groups ranging from 3/4" to 3/8" at 100 yards... The Brux barrel is an 8.5 twist that I meant to burn up during load developement but it has held up very well, It would appear the case design with the much longer neck coupled with the WS2 bullet coating and WS2 bore prep is doing it's job ..
Frankly I can't wait to yank that Brux off to see what the 30" 8 twist 5R Bartlein will do but the damn thing won't give up .... I have not messed with it since that last load developement shooting session and have been involved with my other wildcats,
The 160 gr Woodleigh Weldcore bullets shot some nice groups at 3444 fps and that load will be used for "general hunting use" on moose by my teenage daughter this fall .

This cartridge was developed several years before the 26 Nosler came around and has done everything it was supposed to do .

Are you really saying that because the 6.5 PRO is so much faster than the 26 Nosler that it's not suitable for general hunting ?

Some may know I like to experiment. I screwed a 28" barrel on a rifle and took it to the woods in Western Oregon. I hunted from the Cascades to the coast. The test was to discovered how many times the 28" barrel snagged on a branch or bush. During the whole season it happened one time! When I felt the bush I stopped to see how much barrel was extending beyond the snag. The barrel would have to be about 20" to clear that snag. I say carry what you want.

One time a guy came up to me while I was hunting and started making fun of my rifle. Finally he asked me how much farther it would shoot than his 24". "At least four inches farther," I told him.

Not exactly. I was just thinking if one needed that much barrel for the Pro to do it's stuff, maybe the 26 was about optimal for a genl. use hunting rifle.

I guess if a Pro could be made into an 8+ pound hunting rifle with a 26-27" tube, that would qualify for a general purpose rifle.

I don't know much about the WS2 coating. How about a primer on that process. It seems to be an important part of the performance.

DF

You'll find info on WS2 here .....



http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/lazzeroni-warbird-105398/

Swamplord,

Thanks for the link. While reading it I looked for loading dies. I didn't see that application listed, but it seems like it should work, even without lube. What do you think?

I am with you and love the pushing the limits I am only saddened by the company you picked to make the 6.5 Pro as when I contacted them to see what it would take to have my 30-06 Enfield converted to 3.5 Pro they said they would only use the Remington 700 to build on. But keep up the good work I enjoy following your adventures.

Interesting thread. Handloading/shooting would be dull in a hurry if there were ever consensus...

As to the original question, 6.5-284 in the 700 long action and the 6.5-06 in a commercial mauser or a lengthened standard. Both do everything you want. The 6.5-284 with Lapua brass requires the least amount of foreplay...

For a bit more fps, the 6.5-280AI with Nosler brass.

Big +1

Swamplord :
Thank You for pushing the envelope, and keeping us posted.
Please Stay Safe.

Good post right there! Absolutely spot on!!


X-VERMINATOR

That is a good post and good advice.

But, a Loony needs to be indulged...

Swamplord seems to be enjoying his 6.5 Pro and his other proprietary rounds. Some of us Loony types have thoroughly enjoyed working with the 26 Nosler.

And I don't disagree with anything stated by Dogshooter; he is spot on. But his wisdom may not be applicable for every adventuresome Loony soul. It doesn't have to make sense. In fact if it did, it probably wouldn't qualify as Loony.

DF

It's the hunters that get weak kneed when the pick up a rifle that weighs in between 12 and 15 pounds. It's all mental block. the same hunters will put on a pack with a elk quarter on it and pack it while supporting a big grin.

I don't like the Ultra light rifles. I have problems holding them still enough to make a decent shot. But, that's just me.

But, I'm not packing them over mountains...

But 12-14#'s is too heavy for my tastes, at least for general hunting.

Maybe for a bench rest gun or something hauled around to shoot pasture poodles or similar...

DF

28-30" of 'barrel'.... and 10lbs is about right.... if it's a 20" barrel on an 8.5lb gun.... with a 14oz/9" can and full 10rd mag......

LOL, packing your elk off the mountain is mandatory. Toting a 12-15 lb. rifle is anything but.

This is the view from my front porch and the kind of hills I hunt in.
[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd....6901619_a0cd396966a8002e2d71bdeaf348a5c0[/img]

I'll grin with the elk. But a 12-15 pound rifle will not work at all well for virtually any of the western and northern hunting I've done.

Matter of fact, I am certain that some of my biggest and best animals would never have been killed if I had been hampered by a rifle like that.YMMV.

Nice yard...

DF

You can't. Optimistic loads with 140s are 3200-3250.

I don't see how the 264 runs circles around a 7Rem Mag. I have no issues with the 264 but I have shot some great scores with a 7 mag and 168 Bergers.

Kind of what I was thinking.

I don't shoot 140gr bullets as the 160gr PPSN at 3261fps will kill any game including Moose. That is the 3 Shot Average through the Chronograph. I am sure I can exceed that with the 140gr bullets if I wanted to shoot them. I do shoot the 130gr JLK VLD bullets and have not pushed them as fast as I can and am over 3200fps with them. Right now I am working on my 338 Federal to try to reach 3000fps with the Barnes 160gr TTSX From my DPMS LR338. That will be faster than the 160gr Barnes 7mm data. Yes it will slow down faster than the 7mm but then I will be using it for 400yards or less.

You couldn't pay me enough to pull the trigger on a 264 WM pushing 160s at almost 3,300 fps.... That's an absolute pipe-bomb disaster waiting to happen. I'd invest in some chain mail gloves and welding mask if I were you...

Tanner

Tanner,

That makes me nervous, too.

The 26 Nos, with 93 gr. H2O case capacity, will push 140's at 3,300, SAAMI pressure. From what I've read and heard, around 3,000 fps is about top speed for 160's in the 26. That's why I'm not going there. I'm thinking the 127 LRX at 3,600 fps may be about optimal, velocity vs. B.C., for the 26. For 160's there's the 7RM.

That may not make sense to a LR target shooter, but looks pretty good to a hunter. My thinking has evolved while working with this round, so it may evolve some more...

DF

OK.

30" barrel and ++70K PSI it sounds like to me.

Mike

Hodgdon max load of H1000 in 26" barrel yields 2,861 fps at 61,200 PSI

That's and additional 339 fps to get to 3,200 fps at 50 FPS per inch which is probably generous that would require 6.75" more barrel or a combination of more pressure and more barrel.

Doable, yes, wise, not for me.

Mike

Nah, just a new chronograph.

Sorry but the chronograph is just fine shot a lot of other loads through it The powder is the old H570 that is not made any more. It is over Hornady's max load and does show signs of pressure but still ejects with ease. Recoil is not bad either and is not near as bad as the 7mm Rem Mag.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...ards-with-a-little-help-from-ab-kestrel/

Good video on the Creedmoor!

Mike

Here is some info on load data for the 264WM.
http://www.realguns.com/loads/264winmag.htm

Suminabitch! That is a thing of beauty.

Otter6



Swamplord's 6.5Prometheus inspired me to make my 6.5 RUMLN. I didn't want to open the Remington clone bolt face of the Perce action up to .490" so I went with Remington's .532" bolt face. His hold 105 grains of water while mine holds 109 grains. But his case, the Norma .300 Magnum, is a tougher case than the 7RUM case I use, I think. He gets 3,700 with a 140 grain bullet while I hope to get 3,600 from the 142 Matrix bullets.

I think his is likely to become a factory round but mine is not.

I think the best would be a 6.5-06. That seems to be the best case size, similar to the 6.5-284 but in a long action.

I think the 6.5-284 needs a LA, as well...

DF

You should just go the whole nine and neck down a .50 BMG case to 6.5..... You could call it the 6.5 Uber Dumbass.... I bet it could ass-shoot ever critter on the planet. Maybe Lazzaroni or Arnold Arms could make rifles for it.... oh wait... they already built a bunch of Uber-Magnums that sucked heavy ass.... guess that's why they're not around any more.

If you need 3600+/or a case bigger than an H&H.... out of a big game caliber..... then please ring your call button so Tommy can come back there and beat you over the head with a tack hammer.... because you are a retard.

Or maybe..... it's a compensation thing.... like the 5' tall 120lb dip-schitt with 37's and a 6" lift on his F-150. Do chicks dig Uber-Mags?

Need? Who on here needs more than a .30-30 and a .223?

Besides, I am a monster of a man. I am 5'7" and 153 pounds. The other day I picked up 85 pounds with only a couple tries. What a brute!

I do.... but you are getting closer to reality.... I could live a long and prosperousy rest of my life with only a .260 Rem. Hunting/Shooting/Competing/Etc. Need.... Want.... Wild Hair..... whatever...

You remind me of this guy..... Driver is all I need!

NEED is a four letter word to a Loony...

DF

I ran a Quickload simulation of ringman's cartridge and the barrel length he's using. I don't have the parameters for his specific bullet I used a 140gr. SMK. It took over 90k psi to push the bullet at 3600fps. It will be interesting to see how his results compare to Quickload...

I choose 3,600 from ignorance. From what you say it will be 3,500 or lower.

I like the 6.5x55.
Decent barrel life
Excellent brass
Loaded to European pressures gives excellent ballistics.
Depending on how it's throated there will be more leeway seating vlds
It's just cool and should feed well in a Mauser

Some folks just like to go in uncharted territory if no one had a vision we would still be throwing rocks at bears.