In about 3 months I will start crop sniping bean fields. This is done on a damage permit issued to farmers by the state. I will be using my pet .264 with its Weaver tactical once again as well as a total custom .264 done by a gun smith buddy. It actually belongs to him but I like to use it for this mission. It sports a 14X Nikon and will be shooting 129 Hornady bullets. I will also carry a 30-06 I have been working with using 165 btsp Speers. Most of the deer shot in these fields are shot on the wrong side of 300 yards with some being taken at 600 yards from field positions using a tri-pod. I am going to finish calibrating my scope (the tactical) out to 800 yards before we start shooting deer. Any of you gents do this? reflex264

Be sure to gut the does quickly enough so you can see the fawns still kicking inside the gut bag. No thanks.

We have been very fortunate to not get many mature does ( on purpose) so we don't have to deal with that. Last year out of all the does shot there was only one pregnant doe. I have come up with creative ways to avoid killing as many. One of our best stratagies is to set up 400-500 yards away from a known entry point. We wait till the whole bunch is in the field. Generaly there is plenty of time to identify dominant does. After they are identified we take out a few of last years fawns very near the mature animals. They don't know what is happening but they know they are in the wrong place. You would be surprized to see how fast they learn. After one or two episodes they decide maybe they would be better off staying out of the fields. If you can do this in time the beans get up quick enough so that the deer will look for something a little less dangereous. This has to be done. It is not pleasant by any meens. At least we are able to save as much meat as posible instead of leaving it for the coyotes and buzzards. reflex264

Not intended to bust your balls. I realize some parts of the country have more critters than others.

no offense taken. As I have discussed this on other forums it is a dirty job that has to be done. Our fish and game people have made it so you can kill 300 deer a year during season. Not that they expect anyone to kill that many deer but to provide oppertunity for hunters to take does during season when the see them. Hunters just don't understand the importance with our over population of deer. It has made bean farming impossible. There is nothing I would love to hear more than a call from the game warden over this telling me that we wouldn't have to do it this year. I aleady know it isn't going to happen though. The only bright side is it has made me into a decent long range shooter. I don't even grunt now when I have to take a 500 yard shot. I wish each year during hunters education class they would emphasize to the new hunter coming on how important it is to take a few does a year. You can't eat horns anyway. I still like to kill a good buck during deer season but knowing the problem I concentrate on does. 2004 I shot 9 does during season. The only buck I shot this year was a management buck to keep him from breeding our does. reflex264

Reflex, with the numbers you quoted it sounds like your in Tennessee. In Unit L of Tn we could shoot 3 does a day from the beginning of bow season through the end of gun season 300+. As you said it's dirty work but until hunters learn that shooting does are necessary for herd management it got to be done.

Pmc

Reflex264, Do you need any help?

Toby Joe

What Toby Joe said. If PMC's assumption is correct and you are in Middle TN, I'm even close. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How many people do you allow to hunt on that land during the season, or is is closed to just a few? miles

Hey fellers. I would love to have some help and tried to get the overseeing officer to let me have some. So far on the land I will do this on they only allowed 4 shooters and two of them are the farmers. You might check with the bean farmers in your area. If they get permits they need long range shooters. The farmers on these permits don't have the equipment to handle the problem. That works my son and I to death. We are going to try to save more meat this time. We genraly take coolers ful of ice and don't wast time gutting them. It can be in the 90s when we shoot and the deer ruin very fast. I am going to have a truck mounted gambrel system this time that I think will help. If the weather will settle down while I'm off I will finish calibrating to 800 yards. Thats about as far as I can stabilize the bullets I'm using. reflex264

The land I am doing the sniping on is not where I hunt. We keep ours managed. I noticed on the permits last year there is a line that asks if hunting is allowed on the land. It was marked yes by the officer. I just wonder how many does the hunters take on the land. reflex264

A truck mounted gambrel is the bomb. A buddy of mine builds them. Here's a pic of mine in use.

Pmc

The reason that I asked, is that here in East Arkansas it is common for the big farmers to not let anyone hunt during the season and then get permits to kill the deer all summer. I am against this practice. If they want the deer in the winter, they should want them during the summer. miles

I believe the perceived problem with farmers not letting hunters on their property and then getting permits is that the vast majority of hunter DO NOT kill deer as efficiently as crop damage shooters.

Lots of hunters won't shoot does and most farmers fugure out pretty early in their farming career that baby deer come from does and that it only takes one buck to make lots of does pregnant... The hunters MUST shoot does and demonstrate that they will shoot does in preference to bucks or they just won't be as welcome as crop damage shooters.

Crop damage shooters as about the only folks on a farmers property during the crop damage permit period nad it's pretty easy for the farmer to control who comes and goes. During the permit period its also very easy for the farmer to determine if there is damage to his equipment/crops/fences and who is the culprit... this is not generally the case during hunting season.

From my experience shoooting crop damage is not hunting, its killing and to be kept on a list of authorized shooters it takes a bit of work and sometimes pretty cold hearted work. Most of the farmers want the deer dead early in the spring, this means shooting pregnant (gravid) does, killing 3 deer with one shot in many cases.... recall that its KILLING and not hunting. I have on occassion shot en entire pickup bed full of deer in one evening and have done this several days per week.

miles, it may also be because the crop damage guys sit tight, take out the deer, and then go away, whereas the farmer may have had very bad experiences with slob hunters who go wherever/whenever they please, trash the place, leave stuff scattered, and generally make azzes of themselves.

DaveKing put it in perspective. I do not call this hunting. I might go out and shoot 10 deer an evening. When you open fire from 500 yards away they usually don't know where it is coming from. My technique of taking out young ones near dominant does is working well and reduces the number of deer that must be shot. I have even thought about talking to the youngsters at hunter safety course classes about manageing their deer by harvesting does. They reason they are so overpopulated now is because of mis-management by the state for so long. We had to buy doe permits up until 1998 to even shoot does. Take into consideration tha many hunters won't shoot them for free and the ones that would take them were forced to pay and then be drawn for doe tags. Unit L has a borderline serious problem with the deer population. If each hunter in unit L that didn't normally shoot does took 2 this coming year it would amount to several thousand more does each year. After a couple of years of this it would start making a difference. It is hard to stay on a list of trusted shooters. I have become good friends with the farmer I shoot on this year. He has 4 farms of beans. One of the farms is going to change crops this year because there are so many deer shooting them off is nearly impossible. Sorry fellers, I found a stump and had to speak. reflex264

I see it a little different. Most of the large farmers that I know think that the deer belong to them and they will do as they damn well please. Lots of deer during hunting season pleases them so that they can brag about all of the deer that they have. Then comes crop season and they are a nusiance so that they have to go. I know lots of large farmers and they think that their sh** don't stink. You may have a different opinion or be a large farmer but if the shoe fits!! miles

I'm not a farmer at all and the vast majority of the farmers/producers I've shot for and those I still shoot for have very little to zero interest in deer hunting other than as another chance to get rid of a few more pests/deer.

I have a difficult time understanding how a fella/farmer that sees perhaps hundreds of deer being killed per year off their place could see it as a chance to have lots of deer during hunting season. We do of course only shoot antlerless on the places I shoot but it's not a very pleasant environment for bucks either once all the girls are gone or afraid to venture out.

miles,

How many large farmers do you know who have not had some kind of trouble from genreal season hunters? In Oregon I bought a place with no tresspassing signs already posted. I checked. If someone I didn't even know was there came on my land and was hurt and there were no signs, I was liable. Nuts, but that's the way things are.

I know nothing of their troubles with hunters but given the number of hunters that need a place to hunt in Arkansas, surely they could find some that they could trust to not trash their place. Here when you kill deer with the permits, they have to lay where they fall. You can not salvage meat from them. All of the farmers that I know, and that is a bunch, they or someone in their family hunts. They just don't want enough hunters to keep the deer in check. I even know one that will not let his hired hands hunt on his property, just him and his two sons. I don't think that he has ever used the permits to kill deer out of the season though. Snow geese are a big problem here and after the regular season they have a special season with unplugged guns and no limits and other enhancements, but it is real hard to find a place to hunt them. Then the farmers ride aroud and shoot them off of their wheat with rifles. They will scope them and try to find a banded one to shoot when the scare them off. miles

Hi Reflex,

I saw your handle on this board for the first time tonight.

In my state you cannot sue the landowner if hurt while hunting or fishing on his land, unless said landowner hurts you on purpose of course. It's the law. It's a good law. Not many of the landowners know this, so getting permission is like pulling hen's teeth. When I tell them, they don't believe me. It's in the DNR handbook. They still don't believe it. They just don't want people on their land for any reason. Almost everybody here hunts, and their kids, and their grandkids, and.....

Hey Big Redhead. I visit over here every now and then. Great place. That is interesting. The farmers here could even let a select few hunt and some do. Gotta kill some nannys and much better during season. reflex264