http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Hold+that+Forend.html

I'm ready for a coach to teach me since lately my goal rifle is under 7 pounds ready to roll.

Looks like, from reading this, that my Dad wasn't too far off when he was teaching me @ 3 or 4 years of age just how to shoot.
(He was a Marine DI in the early part of WWII.)

I wish you guys would quit posting stuff like this. People might learn to shoot thier expensive ltwt rifles, and I wouldn't be able to buy them for a bargain price because they can't keep thier shots in a 6" group.

TYVM.

Allen

Is this the same guy that claimed the 6.5x55 swede was no more effective than the 30.30 win.?

"The USMC sniper now typically holds his rifle in the crossed arm position while the forend of the rifle rests on a pack. Recoil of the M24 rifle is mild and generally, very little control is needed to maintain POI (point of impact). Nevertheless, in recent years, the USMC and allied nations have adopted the .338 Lapua and .50BMG chamberings which require somewhat greater attention to technique. While these weapons systems have recoil suppression devices such as muzzle breaks, recoil is still somewhat greater than the M24 rifle. Shooting techniques have not changed accordingly and is an issue that remains un-addressed."

WOW. ..surprised he hasn't been hired by the USMC or the rest of US military to teach their sniper/long range guys how to shoot(bet the Canadians could use some help too). I mean, WTF do they know..

"..High energy cartridges like the .338 Lapua and .50BMG produce significant recoil regardless of recoil taming devices. By significant, I do not mean significant felt recoil- regarding the .338 atleast..."

..hidden recoil? Dark matter recoil?

"Again, we need to be concerned with the recoil effecting potential accuracy for precision shooting. The crossed arm hand hold, regardless of military doctrine, can be counterproductive to magnum rifle shooting, especially away from the rifle range and out in the field.."

So military snipers don't go "out in the field", partaking in "magnum rifle shooting", got it.

That article should be re-labeled "what not to do".

It is pretty obvious after reading that "article" that the author is another internet "expert" who self appointed himself the title.

There are a schit-ton of things completely ate up with the article, and I honestly don't feel like going through it point by point.

Just a couple of notables: He refers to the Marine's M24s. The U.S. Army issues the M24, not the Marines.

His body position alone indicates that he is clueless. In every picture, he is canted, at an angle away from the rear of his rifle, and attempting to control his rifle with his shoulder, as well as holding the forend, or gripping the top of the scope.

He then blathers on about not holding the front of the rifle, and how everyone else is doing it wrong.

If he was oriented properly, as straight as possible, inline behind his rifle, and using his whole body to absorb the recoil of the rifle instead of a small portion of his shoulder, he would not need to worry about holding the top of his scope or gripping the forend.

Frankly, the guy is clueless.

Don't worry.

If people follow the authors advice, they will be complaining in no time about how terrible their rifles shoots, and how the groups wander all over the place.

I found a picture of the guy from the old days.

Good form....




(maybe its SNYPER?)

OUCH!

I've read a few of his "articles". Definitely self appointed.

So...what are you supposed to do with the forearm?

Well, You should have a read of one or more of Nathan's 5 books or just login to his site ballisticstudies.com and take a short look at the knowlegde base under cartridge research.

You might find him to be a good read whether it's bedding a rifle, bullet expansion, long range hunting or research for bullet makers.

This has been on my mind for a bit after having some trouble with a light rifle. I usually just let it free recoil with the crossed arm technique while squeezing the rear bag.

Reading the article in the OP confirmed what my gunsmith asserted about shooting lightweight rifles. He says to hold it tight.

I've searched for other information and every source (Sinclair/Brownell's, American Rifleman, Outdoor Life) basically says the same thing.

I'm going to use some of the techniques suggested and do some testing. Makes sense that it will help

In my experience with light weight rifles, if you consistently do the same thing with every shot you get consistent results, regardless of whether you hold the forearm or not. Having seen 500 animals culled (99% head shots at 200m on average) in 4 days with various weight/type rifles and no one holding a forearm does say something about not holding the forearm as well. Again, not saying the guy is wrong but I have seen very good results by not holding the forearm.

I think the big point missed by the author of the article is the fact that all those pre Vietnam war era rifles being used in the photos have barrels locked into stocks with bands and hand guards. The barrel harmonics/vibration is different than a more modern free/semifree floated barrel...So different shooting technique is called for.

In my not so extensive experience shooting lt.wt. rifles I've found that pulling the butt stock into the shoulder pocket snugly with the shooting hand, looping up in a sling(if you're so inclined)..and that consistency thing that M77 mentioned helps a lot.

SBTCO,

I'm curious about what is light weight? With my 6lb 14oz .257 wildcat I could fire seven or eight shots into 3/4" at 100 yards. Two questions about this? Is this considered light weight and is the group good for it if it is? By the way I was using the cross the arms squeezing the rear bag.

That's awesome

Accuracy.... consistency from all positions... recoil management... and spotting shots/hits... are all facets that one needs to consider when shooting a light rifle at critters. I'll gladly give up a bit of accuracy, in order to more consistently place shots in the field, and see hits.

If you think Nate Foster is full of schitt... I suggest you watch a few of his videos. Pounding goats at a G+ is no joke. It's always easy to nit-pick someone's suggestions or the way they're suggested.... but when you do, it's also easy to miss the point entirely. Controlling the front end of the gun leads to broad base consistency... and consistency leads to accuracy... particularly with hunting rifles.

"While these weapons systems have recoil suppression devices such as muzzle breaks"

Wow! I didn't know they came equipped with devices to snap off the end of the barrel. How many shots can the sniper take before the barrel is down to 12" long?

Could he have meant a muzzle brake, like brakes on a car, well duh!

Crossarm; sandbag front rest at 500 yards with 7mm Mashburn Super. 162 Amax IIRC.. Rifle weighs a shade under 8 pounds.




270 M70 FW; 300 yards prone, fore end supported in left hand and no rear rest.Seems like I need more support beyond 400 so am likely to use crossarm with rear rest. Bipods are an open question since I use them very little until very recently.

Crossarm, with a Crown Royal rear beanbag and (this is important for me) the Harris bipod preloaded forward. Have shot many small groups like that.

However I'm pretty sure my prone position is fairly incorrect. Workin' on it, that's the fun of this stuff after all! My 7 WSM Kimber is my bullshit detector. I have to be on my game to shoot that one to its potential.

It is much harder to shoot heavy recoiling rifles at long range in field positions that the light kickers; that is a certainty.

It's all in my RIGHT hand, in the case of my Kimber. Not the fore-end/left hand. If my trigger control is good and hand pressure is consistent I shoot small groups. If not I pull flyers to the right.

I don't know the "truth" of whether or not it's better to control the fore-end for everyone. I do know that for myself, I'm best off minimizing my points of contact with the rifle. Grabbing that fore-end adds a whole other point of potential mayhem from ME. Where I've found consistency is in preloading the bipod forward and in right hand position and trigger press and follow-through.

My hunting shot first choice is prone with a tight sling and my left hand on my back pack.
Below are some groups shot that way a few years apart at our Friday morning 500 yard practice sessions at Phoenix Rod and Gun Club.
7.5 pound M70.







While the tight sling is preferable, I couldn't use it on this years Coues buck as I could not elevate the muzzle enough after I rotated the butt into my shoulder pocket...

I shot some 100 yard and long range groups yesterday experimenting. I can't really say I have anything definitive from testing. It may be that all rifles are different

I shot my light Creedmoor. 100 yard groups varied. I used the tight sling along with a forarm hold with the Stoney Point Rapid Pivot Bipod, and a rear bag. Best was 1/2" and worst was .8"

I then abandoned the sling and just used a tight forearm hold. It shot about the same. I shot a group with this method that was great at 760:






I also shot my "light" .300 Winchester with the 208. I used a tight sling and the forearm hold as with the Creed. Groups were not good. I then shot a group simply off of the bipod while squeezing the rear bag and it went 1/2".

I dialed the 710 yard target and did the same (bipod with left hand on the rear bag) and shot an awesome group. Just made a big black mark that just kept getting blacker...






I guess a guy just needs to experiment to see what works.