Action, reamers, dies and gauges are in. Waiting on a Proof Sendero Lite that I'll finish at 22" and thread 5/8-24 for a TBAC Ultra-5.

For the stock I'm going to give AG Composites a shot and BDL-style bottom metal will be from Hawkins. Triggertech trigger.

Should have it wrapped up in a few weeks.

Following closely …

Been going back and forth on barrels for something very similar; been leaning towards the sendero prefit but still haven’t pulled the trigger. Actually wish it was 22 as you are doing.

21st century round and components. Cool.

OP, where'd you source the AG stock from? AG direct? Wait time?

Working with their external marketing firm on getting one since the build will be covered in an article. No guarantees at this point on whether they are able to deliver in time.

More to follow once I get a chance to shoot my 7 PRC build in ernest - weather has not been cooperating. Did send 2 rnds down the tube today, out the back door, so I'd have a couple of once fired rounds to send to Hornady and have modified case gages made.

Should be nice.
Wish y'all the best on your build.

For anyone interested in the defiance/proof prefit route, Altus is now out and Evolved ballistics is down to two.

Oh man... I can feel the boat moving now... It's getting serious

Following this build.

So is this (mesa) actually made by AG?

Yep. Hint............

👍

IMHO, no.

Switched further discussion over to the Mesa precision thread in the gunsmith forum. Probably should’ve posted there to begin with. Don’t want to derail OP’s thread and looking forward to his build.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...85071/mesa-precision-stocks#Post17685071

Got a barrel in and a set of loaner reamers from Hornady. I follow the barrel fitting procedures outlined by William Hambly-Clark in his excellent book.

Looks like Imgur isn't working anymore, apologies for the photo links. This isn't a step-by-step but it shows the basics.

Started by dialing in the bore over a 2" section, shooting for around .0001" of coaxial alignment along that length.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a7ynkd9fa8s8bet/IMG_7159.JPG?dl=0

Cut the tenon to length and diameter.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/owypjhr2swq1gbg/IMG_7169.JPG?dl=0

Threaded 16 TPI until the action slipped on. This was my first build using my Hardinge HLV-H, what a treat to run-- especially when it came to cutting threads.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b8tg46ueygr3dhh/IMG_7174%202.JPG?dl=0

Making a facing cut after moving the shoulder back to time the barrel directly upward
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o8p5semvtwsvcmc/IMG_7177.JPG?dl=0

Rough reaming the chamber
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zs9qjf5l77fitzq/IMG_7182.JPG?dl=0

I didn't finish cutting the chamber yesterday since I was taking my daughter hunting, I will wrap it up this week sometime. After I confirm headspace, the next step will be cutting the barrel threads as well as a crown. Stock should be here next week and I can start bedding. Action will go to H&M for nitriding.

Thanks Wolverine!

👍
Looking good. Following with significant interest!

What twist did you go with?
Do you have a particular bullet in mind to shoot in it?

Mark

1-8"

Will try the 175gr. ELD-X but also the 165gr. Bondstrike and some others. We'll see what she likes.

Tell us about your lathe and such.

Can't afford to go quite as fancy so I am using McBros Evo II stainless, Lothar Walther fluted stainless, 22" (.650" @ the muzzle) and Manner's UltraLight Classic w/ Hawkins Oberndorf bottom metal. Hoping to come in at 5 lb, 10 oz.

I was down at https://shop.kaugerarms.com/ today looking at my new rifle and talking about having a 7PRC or a 7-300wm built. Just for sheits a giggles we started looking for 7PRC brass, none available, then looked for 7PRC ammo, none available. What the he'll, is this a build it and they will come type of deal?

Lathe is a 1983 Hardinge HLV-H Super Precision. I bought it a year or so ago and finally have it ready for barrel work. I made a spider for the outboard end and had the jaws of the 4-jaw milled to accept the half-round steel gimbals that I use. The gimbals allow you to hold the barrel securely but with as little stress as possible. Straight out of the Hambly-Clark book Centerfire Rifle Accuracy https://a.co/d/hfyelR1

Some will tell you that a Hardinge is not ideal for gunmaking. I disagree, especially when the spindle bore ID is large enough to chamber through the headstock- mine is plenty big.

The lathe also has a Newall DRO that makes life easy. This lathe has been used but not abused. After building rifles on a POS Grizzly, this thing is like driving a Cadillac.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8q98tx8hclax52z/2022-11-06%2013.28.09.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2kt0ewy8k3xee6v/2022-02-05%2009.20.29.jpg?dl=0

im not perfect poem

Wow! Cool that you have a Hardinge. Nice. Dumb question, but what makes it superior to the Grizzly?

It's kind of like comparing a Hi Point pistol to one built by Nighthawk or Wilson; the Hardinge is superior in every way. Everything is well-built, extremely precise and the engineers made every effort to eliminate vibration whenever possible. Even after replacing the motor and making other tweaks, building a rifle on my Grizzly was like playing the game Operation on a vibrating bed. The guns all shot well, somehow, but it was a real chore to get right.

Here is an old thread on some of the struggles with my Grizzly:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ith-before-and-after-videos#Post13325858

I don't have his book but I have come to believe he discusses good, better and best tiers of barrel fitting and chambering. I think you're following his best practice recommendation here. Can you briefly summarize his baseline good procedure? If that's not possible I understand.

I was pricing some used Hardinge HLV-H Super Precisions on the interweb last night and they're not cheap ($16-22k) Are you self-taught on the lathe? Be fun to have a quality lathe and tooling to do one's own gunsmithing. Wishful thinking on my part I'm afraid.

Very cool. I like the 6.5 Creedmoor you put together a few years back too.

Do you have a pic of these steel gimbals in the four-jaw? I made spiders for the back of my EMCO Super 11 spindle and modified a D1-4 plate for the front, but I'm always hoping to learn other techniques.

I believe his baseline procedure is to dial the muzzle and breech ends to +/- 0 with a gauge pin in the bore. Plenty of accurate rifles have been built this way, the problem is that barrels are rarely straight and, but using the spider, you're simply bending the barrel temporarily while you work.

I'm self-taught on the basic operation-- I had never run a lathe before I bought my first one. I learned to fit and chamber during a visit to Robert Gradous several years back and D'Arcy Echols has taught me more than a few things over the years. I've been fortunate to have some excellent teachers and I learn something new every time.

These lathes aren't cheap and it makes zero financial sense for me to own one, but this is America! If I were in the market now I would look at Precision Matthews, they appear to be a lot of machine for the money and the quality coming out of Taiwan is far superior to the Red Chinese machines.

Thanks! That gun is a real shooter, still my go-to whitetail rifle.

I watched Olympic rifle barrels being indicated in and chambered using Deltronic pins on each end. Lots of Olympic rifles and national match rifles have been built for years using this method.

Here are photos of the gimbals in the 4-jaw as well as the smaller ones that I use on the muzzle end when crowning, etc. Just 3/8" O-1 milled in half. https://www.dropbox.com/s/jiaotc23gsal606/2022-12-21%2010.12.52.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3nzmjdw4gc5wxu3/2022-12-21%2010.13.50.jpg?dl=0

I don't disagree-- if they shoot, they shoot.

This is how I do it, I'm certainly not qualified to tell anyone else how to do it but it works for me.

Mind if I ask another question? How do you affix that 8-jaw spider chuck to the back side of your lathe? Can you also move it to the 4-jaw for accurizing an action? TIA.

Not sure what you mean-- I have a 4-jaw mounted to the spindle nose taper. The spider is a 4-bolt arrangement, I used nylon tipped screws to attach it to the OD of the spindle. The spider isn't under much of a load and I didn't want to risk making a burr on the spindle.

Understood. Thx.

It isn't the height of precision, but I've seen a pretty accurate build done without indicating at all.

The first time I ever saw a guy build a rifle, he put the barrel in a collet chuck and spun it until he couldn't see any wobble on the muzzle end. No indicator in sight and I'm pretty sure he was drunk. I still have the rifle and it shoots extremely well. All of that said, if I'm going to go to the time and expense of building rifles as a hobby I may as well do it to the best of my ability.

Of course.

What I saw wasn't simply eyeballing though.

You willing to share with us what you paid for that beauty of a lathe? Inquiring minds want to know! TIA

If I remember correctly it was around $15k but I traded another Hardinge as part of the deal (that was more work to restore than I wanted to take on). The DRO was extra and I had Paul at Hardinge Repair do a service on it and my Bridgeport.

Woodhits
May I assume you are using WHC’s method number either 3 or 4…can’t remember the number?

Thank you.

Would you mind giving your opinion on a Southbend Heavy 10 for gunsmithing? Sufficiently heavy and precise to do high-quality work or no? TIA.

I'll put my 2 cents in concerning Southbend Lathes. They had a bunch of 9" and heavy 10s in H-School. A few of these were in very good condition. Most were pretty worn out. Great lathe to learn on. Belt can slip if you get in a jam. Gunsmithing school at Trinidad had several 13" SBs and a few heavy 10s. Most were in reasonable shape and could produce quality work. They also had some "newer" Clausing 13/40s. I didn't use them much as the Southbend was what I learned on. Then I had to cut metric threads and asked the toolroom for the change gears for the SB 13. They told me they had the gears, but it would take me a bunch of time to set the gears, cut the threads and return the geartrain to inch for the next class. They said just use a Clausing and just flip the levers to the metric settings. I had no idea you didn't have to put metric transposing gears in the Clausing to cut metric. I got my threads cut quickly on the Clausing and marveled how convenient the brake was. In school I had my own 9" SB in the dorms or my rental house for third year. I really liked using it for most smaller projects.

Recently I've sold my 9"SB and miss it. However I'm happy to have the extra room for a Milltronics CNC Mill. The only lathe I have left is a Kent TRL-1340 I bought new back in 2006. It's got plenty of power. Enough to eat you and spit you out the other side. As I'm very comfortable and competent at using a lathe, It may be a bit much for someone just learning. It's a Taiwan made precision lathe almost exactly like the Clausings in gunsmithing school as well as the Clausing copy made in the same plant as what Southbend is selling today.

13inchSouthbend

Back in 2006 my Kent was $10K delivered to my shop, now they are $15K and the SB version of the same machine made in the same plant is $20K.

The older Southbends in really good shape are an investment that should hold it's value and then some. Great first machine IF you don't have to cut metric threads. Heavy 10 would be a minimum as you can get a barrel through the headstock.

At Dak Arms, they had a Nardini in pretty good condition. Really liked the machine but I was the only one that ever changed the gears to cut metric threads. Couldn't just flip a lever.

The Hardinges and Monarch EE are in a much higher class.

Thanks for the information. Much appreciated.

Got a chance to finish chambering. Here is the bolt not closing on the no go gauge.



Time to flip things around and handle the muzzle end.

Christmas slowed down my progress but I’m back in business. With the breech end done I got to work on the muzzle.

Started by parting off the end of the barrel



Faced off the end of the barrel before turning.



Turned the barrel down to .623” and threaded a .600” section 5/8-24.



Test fit the TBAC brake.



Threads complete



Cut an 11 degree crown but didn’t take any photos. Onto bedding. Got most of it prepped but won’t have a chance to finish for a couple of days.

My apologies for the delay on updating this thread, our whitetail rut is about to kick off and I've been focused on work and chasing deer.

Bedding, in my view, is more art than science. Though I've built some great-shooting rifles, I've never done a bedding job that I was truly happy with. This one was complicated by the fact that it was a) finished and b) came with pillars installed. Bedding an unfinished stock gives you far more flexibility in my experience-- as an example, I can let the bedding compound cure along the barrel channel before I sand it down to flush. Little things.

The best-shooting rifles that I've built were ones where I made and installed the pillars myself. I can set the pillars exactly where I want them and can torque the action down without any stress points. I make them where the ID of the pillar is a slip fit with the action screws so I know exactly where the barreled action is going to end up. Later, after the bedding is complete, I can ream out the pillar ID to provide relief. The ID on these pillars was huge, like over .300".

On this rifle, I taped the barrel with 20 mil tape, filled the voids with modeling clay and used electricians tape on the sides and bottom of the recoil lug. I did not tape the front of the lug-- Robert Gradous taught me to bed this way and, so far, I can't argue with the results. I also taped the portion of the action on both sides of the magazine port so that only the receiver ring and tang are in contact with the stock.

I used Marine-Tex and managed to get the epoxy in place without creating too big of a mess. Hoppes #9 is great for cleaning up bedding compound before it dries.

I waited 24 hours, broke the barreled action free and began the clean-up process. A milling machine is ideal for removing excess epoxy in places like the magazine well and trigger inlet.




The results were not as aesthetically pleasing as some that I've seen but I'm more concerned about the targets. I headed out to the farm to see how it shot. Using factory Precision Hunter 175gr. ELD-X ammo, I started by simply test-firing the rifle. It shot with no drama and the case looked like everything was kosher in terms of headspace, etc. I made some scope corrections and shot a three-shot group. Imagine my surprise when the group was strung vertically, well over an inch. I shot another three with the same result. Damn.


On the way home I did what I always do when I screw something up and called a my gunmaking Obi Wan. I was threatening to put the stock in the Bridgeport, rip out all of the Marin-Tex and start over but he talked me off of the ledge. In his view, the .020" clearance under the barrel wasn't enough and my barrel was likely slapping the stock during recoil. Using a 3/4" cobalt ball end mill, I relieved the barrel channel an additional .040" to provide some clearance. Then I cleaned everything up with sandpaper so that I can paint the area black in the future.

photo hosting

In between some quail and deer hunting this past weekend I pulled the rifle out and shot another three-shot group. I didn't measure it or photograph it but all three shots were touching in a nice triangular clover. Good enough to kill a deer with before I start hand loading and fine-tuning. Alabama's deer season runs until February 10 and I very much want to use this rifle in the field this season.

Once the season is over, I'll send the action off for black nitriding and have the barrel shank engraved appropriately. For now, it's all about the buck that I'm after.

Thanks for the update. Do you have any pictures of the assembled rifle? What can are you running? TBAC7?

Interesting that .020" wasn't enough clearance for the bbl and led to slapping and vertical strings. Have to keep that in mind for the future.

I will shoot some and post them ASAP.

Planning to use a TBAC Ultra 5 Gen II once I get my stamp back. I have an Ultra 9 but I made the mistake of buying it with the .264" aperture so that wouldn't work out to well with .284 bullets. Tempted to thread my Omega 300 onto it in the meantime just to see how it does.

Definitely surprised me-- I would not have believed how drastic the effect was had I not seen it myself.

Nice stuff. Thanks for all of the pictures.

By request, pictures of the whole rifle as it stands now. Action still needs to be nitrided and the barrel shank engraved.



cool unique girl names

Shot the rifle today to confirm that the bedding issue has been fixed. Yeah it's just one group, but at .282" I think I might be on the track. We'll see what handloads will do.

Damn good shooting! Now that is the kinda thing that makes folks want the easy button. Great rig. Nice work.

That doesn’t suck!

Definitely glad that it shoots after all of that work. It was the first rifle that I'd built on the new lathe so there was a learning curve.

How are you liking the stock? Carbon all terrain correct?

That's right. I like it so far but I've only shot from the bench at this point.

Finally all done with this one, looking forward to hunting mule deer with it this fall.

Looks great Woods. That’s a solid rifle.

That is a beautiful stock! Did you paint it? I love that pattern and the colors.

No, that's straight from AG Composites-- all I did was bed it. I'm really impressed with their work. Of course, they have done a bunch of OEM stocks to include the Fieldcraft.

Great project !

Looks and shoots just as good. Nicely done !

Did I miss it, what twist is your barrel? I am getting my .257 weatherby (700 action) rebarreled to 7mm PRC with another #3 Bartlein. The twist is 8.7 which I thought a little odd.

1:8

Heck of a build.

You should be a happy camper with this build.

As you know, your rifle is bad to the bone.

Perfection! What rings did you use?

35mm Leupold Mark 4. Low, if memory serves correctly.

Appreciate all of the kind words.

Next up in the queue is a 6mm Creedmoor for my kids to hunt with.

Nice rifle and good job on the write up !!

What brand of modeling clay did you use to fill the cutouts in the stock and action?
Thanks
Mark

Wow, that's a nice rifle, Woodhits. Must be very satisfying after all that work.

Not sure, honestly. I’ve been using the same clay for several years.

You shooting factory ammo only or reloading?
Curious if you used a AW2 reamer since there's alot of reports with clickers with the saami PRC reamers.

Only factory so far. It's been so miserably hot this summer that I've avoided doing any load development. I have some 152gr. CEB Maximus bullets loaded up that I'll likely shoot this weekend. Having trouble finding RL-26 so I'm using N-165. May try H-1000 as well.

The reamer was to the SAAMI spec. No problems so far but honestly haven't put enough rounds through it to say for sure. Buddy of mine used it on a hog this weekend, it's become sort of a tradition for him to kill things with my rifles before I do.

You won't have just shooting factory loads or mild handloads, its after about 3 firings on brass is when it starts happening.

I'll keep you posted once I get through a few firings. I don't have a ton of brass on-hand so that may not take long now that the weather is getting nice.

What's a clicker?

Not sure I've heard this before.

It happens right at the top of lifting the bolt handle hence the name " clicker".
Google clickers and PRC extraction problems specific mainly to Alex Wheelers fix with the 6.5 and 300.
His reamers are .002 bigger at the .200 line.
Basically the saami chamber - sizing die match is outta wack, you can only size brass back so far so making the chamber bigger at the back end is the fix.
Theres many people who have ran the AW2 reamers in to fix the problem some have polished the back end out but the real fix is the AW2 reamer.
Theres been a few issues with PRC dies not sizing properly to, even with the AW2 reamers.
I believe Bullet Central has dies to match Alex's reamer there spendy but very good dies.

Thanks for the info sherm_61



I have a Proof prefit 6.5 PRC to put on someday, fingers crossed I don't have any issues. Plan on factory ammo for a while until I have a good supply of brass. Reloading after that..maybe.

I am obtuse. What exactly is a clicker? The sound the bolt makes at the top of primary extraction? What mechanical issue causes an audible click? Having problems extracting brass?

Thanks.

I am having a 7MM PRC barrel put on and want to know if this is some kind of problem to PRC geometry .


Edit: Found this https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/videos

Like I said Google it, its a brass, die. chamber issue.
Google AW2 reamer the 7PRC needs to be the same as the 6.5 and 300which I believe is .535 at the .200 line.

Hell its been all over the net on other forums for couple years atleast, look at accurateshooter, LRO and Long range hunting, use there search functions it will come up.
A die will not fix the issue you can only size brass back so far, like I said bigger at the .200 line is the fix.