In Iowa we have to hunt with .35 to .50 caliber for deer. Is there anything out there hotter than 35 whelen. With the whelens we have been messing a lot to 500. And seems past that we loose so much velocity the bullet must be tumbling. Groups .75 moa at 500. 700 can’t it a 12” plate. So looking for something more. Is there anymore options ?

.358 Norma mag or 358 STA are both a step up

.375 Cheytac. It's a...significant step up from the .35 Whelen and perfectly legal. Along with the .378 Wby Mag. It's pure idiocy that we can legally use .375 Cheytac and .378 Wby but not a .30-30... I'm using an XP-100 in .350 Rem Mag during the late "muzzleloader" season. Comfortable to 300 with it from a good rest out of the ground blind.

Rules make no sense. Just trying to play within them

If you can do your own stocking I have a pre-64 Winchester M70 in 358 Norma mag barreled action for sale. $550. PM me if you are interested.

The twist on a .35 Whelan was never intended for 700 yard shooting.
The STA will shoot a little faster than a .340 Weatherby with same for same bullet weights and has a more appropriate twist rate.

Yes I agree that the Whelen is not the first choice for 700 yard shots. I guess I still approach the hunting like I did prior to the rule changes in iowa. Closer is better

My brother used his 35 Whelen on white tail does up through bull elk successfully and yes he did shoot deer as far as 500 yards. His bullet of choice for long range shooting was 225 grain Sierra bait tails. His rifle was the 700 Classic, he didn’t need a faster twist. His scope of choice was a K4 Weaver. Yep, not adjustable for power, no adjustable objective, and certainly not a scope that you’d want to twirl the elevation and windage adjustments.

That rifle was his favorite. I tried to buy it when he passed but when I found out his grandson wanted it…

It’s amazing that you can consider a 358 Norma Mag on deer, which is capable of killing at long range anything that walks from any angle, and then for public safety purposes apply some idiotic rule that a 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08 Rem or 308 Win is illegal and deemed a risk for use.

I suggest that the OP carefully reread the Iowa regulation and if true that any .358 straight wall or bottleneck on up is doable, then I suggest the folks making that rule for Iowa need a full head examination.

BTW the M70 sounds like a great deal for someone. The 358 Norma Mag is a potent chamber.

Rossimp

The Op is right. You could use a 416 Weatherby if you want in Iowa.

I'm not sure what you mean. If a bullet is spun fast enough to stabilize properly at the start, then its stability due to twist increases with distance.

I think the OP's bullets are having a bad time passing through the trans sonic speed range.

When I lived in western AK, one of the guys had a 1917 custom in .358 Norma...some of the witnessed long shots he made on caribou were the stuff of local legend. But that was before the days of rangefinders, streamlined bullets and instant ballistic dope at your fingertips. Was it the man...or was it the cartridge?

+1 on the Norma Mag., friend had one he hunted the mountains with in NH, very effective. Set up on his was with an internal muzzle break to reduce the recoil a bit.

My brother liked 225 grain Sierra’s for long range (500+) in his 700 Classic. He used a k4 for a scope. No-one told him that fast twist was needed. No-one told him about how his choice of scopes without AO and turrets that spin was needed either.
If seen him shoot a dog at a 1/2 mile, one shot. With that 35 Whelen.

Here is another vote for the Norma mag. I had one built several years ago and took it to Sweden for a moose hunt. I thought the other hunters would be impressed that I had was hunting with their domestic caliber but it turned out that none of them had ever heard of it.

100% correct on regs.

Also I agree on the trans sonics speed range. As the celp is dropping it can’t handle and I believe they start tumbling.

Also I know they aren’t meant to shoot that far. But when I’m blind hunting I like to have plenty of range and I’m a gun but why not chase the best of the best inside the law ??

I'd be looking at a cartridge/caliber with better commonly available long range bullets rather than upping the powder capacity and the recoil.

The 375's are generally all twisted to toss the 300 Hornady BTSP, Sierra BTSP and the 350 gr. MatchKing or a 410 Berger which will retain more velocity without kicking the crap out of you if loaded correctly. Your problem is bullets, not muzzle speed or burning more powder.

There it is. Well said

As far as the rules, I'm perfectly fine with them not making sense.

Anything other than shotguns works for me.

How about the .350 Rigby Magnum?

^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^ memtb

I'm very happy with my 358 Norma. It is a 700 that was a 35 Whelen. IMR 4320 (discontinued) and the Hornady 250 Spire shoot .75MOA using a 4X Nikon.
If you don't need the distance 375 Win, 375 JDJ and 405 Win would work too.

I'd go with a 358 RUM, ADG makes 375 RUM & 338 Edge brass that would be a simple, one pass neck down/up & go, they also make 300 RUM & so do the Peterson crew along with others, simple neck ups aren't difficult and can be done with regular dies and expander balls in several sizes/steps

This way you have all of the 358's on the power scale, max load and none of the others can catch up, then you can download to match the lesser 358's with ease, which also opens up a big doorway for multiple burning rate powders you can use

for loading ammo, just use Redding 375 RUM fl sizer & bushing dies with the correct bushings

358 wsm with 200 grain barnes ttsx will surprise you, if your looking my 358 wsm built on a Montana 99 chasis might be on the market soon.

The people who make the rules usually don’t know what they’re talking about.

Captain John would you happen to have the reamer for the 358wsm? I have a 358 short wsm I'd like to make into a 35 wsm. I agree with the surprise I shoot the 200 ttsx in a 350 magnum xp-100 repeater and it's killed everything very effectively. Deer to bison .

Talon2 - no we rented the reamer if I remember right, I can check with the smith that did it he is on the board here ie Chris williams (ctw) - I have shot less then 30 rounds thru the rifle we put together but I am getting a safe overcrowding issue so I might free up some space. Really liked the 200 TTSX Barnes, we did like 5 different charges of powder and more we added the better it got, finally it was we have a winner here. the only real complaint and not really a complaint I have with the rifle is the wood turned out so nice it is really too nice to drag around in the woods, I didn't know what i had really for stock or paid much attention until it was being finished by another member here Jay Ward. If i keep the rifle I was looking for affordable synthetic stock for hunting furniture, belly crawling or wading in the prickly bushes is not easy on stocks.

Get closer, just like before the laws changed.

Just for reference, here is what the Iowa site says:

"Cartridges meeting the criteria defined above
are legal whether listed here or not." A couple of ads to the list for the folks up in Des Moines to take into account next publishing LOL

358 Norma Magnum
358 WSM