So last year I bought a stainless .270 WSM M70 rifle. I also have accumulated some fired brass for this rifle, new brass is unobtainable for the most part. I can only find Winchester Deer Hunter XP 130 gr ammunition in the Big R stores around me for about $80 a box out the door, online a little over $50 a box if I buy a case of 200 rounds.
So new 6.8 Western ammunition is far more plentiful in stores and online and with more options in bullet choices. New brass for this is also pretty much unobtainable right now for reloading as well.
I don't think there is a huge difference between the two. I also don't think the .270 WSM will ever completley go away. However, there is the fact that bullets are progressing towards faster twist barrels.
I'm just thinking of ordering a Bartline 2b to be installed when I restock my rifle.
I knew that when I asked the question. I imagine Winchester thought it was better to change the case slightly and rename it, than change the WSM to a faster twist. I can only imagine the unhappy customers when the new bullets wouldn't shoot in their old rifles.
I knew that when I asked the question. I imagine Winchester thought it was better to change the case slightly and rename it, than change the WSM to a faster twist. I can only imagine the unhappy customers when the new bullets wouldn't shoot in their old rifles.
I think the bigger reason they did a new cartridge is because they realized the case was too long. The m70 mag box may allow an OAL to accommodate it, but few others do.
Some of the newer 270 bullets make a fast twist WSM or the Western interesting. If I had a 270 WSM I'd strongly consider a faster twist in either cartridge.
Wanting a 270, I would build a nice 270 Winchester. On a #2 barrel with a top-of-the-line stock. Yes, we would put some top-quality glass on it, and have a nice hunting rifle. This rifle could fill an Ark with dead animals, you wouldn't have a problem.
Well, I don't think you would.
If you have a 270 WSM do the same, I'm sure, you'd be a happy person.
The reason, I gave all this information, I'm getting ready to build a rifle with these specs. Yes, a 270 Win.
Wanting a 270, I would build a nice 270 Winchester. On a #2 barrel with a top-of-the-line stock. Yes, we would put some top-quality glass on it, and have a nice hunting rifle. This rifle could fill an Ark with dead animals, you wouldn't have a problem. ... The reason, I gave all this information, I'm getting ready to build a rifle with these specs. Yes, a 270 Win.
Bingo. Easy button is to rebarrel a stock .270 Win with an 1:8" twist barrel and stoke it full of Reloder 26. No game animal walking God's green earth will ever know the difference. and no shortage of readily available brass for reloading...
Interesting reading in the legal treatise. Unfortunately, suing one of the the largest advertisers in the firearms business did not ingratiate Mr. Jamison to the publications dependent on revenue from that advertiser. I applaud Mr. Jamison for standing his ground and prevailing in court, despite a small army of high brow defense attorneys, and despite his actions resulting in a Career Crippling Incident. Hopefully the "juice was worth the squeeze."
As always, "It is about the money." Even in the Firearms Industry, there are those who will stretch/bend/break the law if they think it will increase their bottom line...
Wanting a 270, I would build a nice 270 Winchester. On a #2 barrel with a top-of-the-line stock.
I'm going wit the #2b contour as I think that's the lightest Bartline will do in stainless. I'm thinking 7.5 twist. I already have a Wildcat Composite sitting in the closet waiting to be finished. The real blasphemous thing I'm contemplating is cutting the barrel back to 20" for suppressor use.
I have more than a few 270 winchesters they have all been good shooters and reliable killers. In the mid 90's I had a winchester m12 reproduction 20 ga I bought for skeet and early bird hunting, it was rough cycling and I put over 5 flats thru it on skeet trying to smooth it in, never happened. I could still beat its performance with a 870 express. One Sunday after a couple of less than stellar skeet rds I stopped at the lgs on the way home. In the used rack was a Mk V sporter in 270 Weatherby mag. 99% condition that looked like it had less than 3 boxes thru it. I traded that m12 20 and 35 bucks for the 270 wthby mag. It had one of those 1 piece Maynard Buehler mounts on it with rings and an old 6x Burris I had was a perfect fit. 150 gr horn sp and a max dose of 7828 and fed 215's shot groups nickle to quarter size at 100 yds at 3150 fps. 3 of the 4 nicest whitetail bucks I've shot were with the 270 Weatherby, seems like every time I took it hunting I'd see a nice buck. Don't know why I am not smart enough to just use it all the time. No the 6x isn't perfect for most but works great for the shots I take. I am only 69 but can handle and use a long action as good as any short one. That is why the 270 wsm and 6.8 hold little curiosity for me. To each his own. Mb
Taylorce, I had a 1:8 270 WCF built and used it last year on elk, antelope, and deer. 155gr Barnes LRX with Rel 26 @ 3000fps. I really like this combo.
If you are going to put a new barrel on, definitely twist it fast! I have looked at the fast twist 270 cartridges, but have never been able to bring myself to jumping in the deep end so to speak.
If I was to jump in, I would choose a 6.8 Western. Hodgdon lists most load in the 3000fps range with 150gr bullets, which is ballpark to what I am getting with my plain 270 WCF. The WSM holds more powder, so if that is important to you.
Any way you spin it, the 270 caliber is probably never going to get the competition industry support (top of line brass) like Creedmoor's, PRC's etc. No matter how much of a 270 looney I am.
I've been using the .270 Win most of my adult life. It was my first big game rifle I bought for elk hunting. I'll never be without one, and I'm even interested in the .277 Fury.
According to SIG the cases are reloadable unlike other military cartridges. Apparently only one rifle/action is available and that’s the military designed SIG MCX Spear. It will be intriguing to see if any manufacture dips into this cartridge in a turn bolt rifle. 80K psi is an inordinately high pressure in a hunting firearm. Shooting a round of that pressure in a firearm is unheard of from a SAAMI perspective throughout history. The highest ratings are around 65K psi to 68K psi for SAAMI ammunition specs. Shooting a steady diet of 80K psi would make me sweat a bit not knowing when two or three lug systems may shear one or all their lugs.
Saw some ballistics on a 2.83” COAL yielding a 135 gr .488 BC at 3,000 fps from a 16” barrel. Same set up moves a 150 gr .591 BC at 2,900 fps. Seems ripe for a short barreled hunting rifle with a can on the end. Question is what action can take a constant 80K psi and maintain the integrity of safe use.
I have looked at 277 wolverine, 6.8 spc, 270-08, 6.8 western, 270 WSM (had one), 270 Weatherby, and 27 Nosler. Just can not seem to get over the original.
None of them do much of anything different when it comes to downing game. The 270 WCF is now 100 years of age and by all accounts still in the drivers seat.
In N/A, If a Rifleman can get within 400 yards, he can kill it w/ a .270 Winchester.
And if he can't?
In either case, he's not much of a hunter.
GR
100%, but you know the the trendy kids back up to kill stuff farther.
They are LR hunters, different breed for sure. But then I have put a bunch of meat in the freezer with traditional archery equipment at 20 yards or less.
In N/A, If a Rifleman can get within 400 yards, he can kill it w/ a .270 Winchester.
And if he can't?
In either case, he's not much of a hunter.
GR
580 yards is my longest kill with a .270 Win 130 grain SGK on a plains mule deer. Worked just like you'd expect it to when slipping a bullet through the heart and lungs.
I have looked at 277 wolverine, 6.8 spc, 270-08, 6.8 western, 270 WSM (had one), 270 Weatherby, and 27 Nosler. Just can not seem to get over the original.
I have a couple of buddies who shoot the Wolverine in AR-15 rifles. They kill deer on a regular basis with it. The problem is the 90 grain Speer GD they like shooting are hard to get.
Originally Posted by cas6969
Originally Posted by taylorce1
So new 6.8 Western ammunition is far more plentiful in stores and online and with more options in bullet choices.
Don't expect it to stay that way for very long, it's only plentiful because there's nothing to shoot it in.
I've seen X-Bolts and XPR rifles in stock places in 6.8 Western. If you just want a rifle, they aren't impossible to find.
Originally Posted by Rossimp
Apparently only one rifle/action is available and that’s the military designed SIG MCX Spear.
The Sig Cross is supposed to be able to handle the high pressure rounds of the .277 Fury. They have them listed on Sig's web site. I've not seen one in person yet. You'll probably never see the Fury in a classic bolt action rifle, without a major redesign of the action and barrel. I wonder if a Q Fix rifle could handle the high pressure of the .277 Fury?
I’ve got a .270 WSM, 6.8 Western, and .270 Win. If I was to narrow it down to one, it would be a 1:8 twist .270 WSM. As far brass for the 6.8 Western, ADG has announced they will be making some later this year. I got on a waitlist for it through an ADG vendor. At the moment, I’m resizing 7mm SAUM Norma brass and fire forming it. I need to get to the range next weekend, and fire form the rest so I can actually develop loads for it.
That's just what I did, Hudge. Had a 1:8 Douglas #3 SS put on my M70 SS 270 WSM, replacing the original barrel. Shoots the 175 TGK great at 2850' with RL 26, and that seems mild in it. Have the 165 ABLR and 170 BT on hand also but so far they haven't equaled the 175 TGK in accuracy. Not much data out there for heavies in the 270 WSM, but no problem, just use 6.8 Western and work up from there.
Raven Rocks has had Norma 270 WSM in stock off and on for a while, and they are expecting ADG soon. I bought enough Norma to shoot out my barrel but am intrigued to try the ADG if it ever comes available.
I too, would love to put a 1:8 #2 profile barrel on one of my 270 Wins. That would be a fabulous rifle!
Is the main benefit of WSM over Western, velocity?
Shooting higher BC bullets than what's possible with the .270 WSM and its 1:10 twist. There is getting to be a fairly decent list, here are just a few.
Taylorce, I wasn't clear when I asked the question above.
I was thinking both cartridges with 1:8 twist barrels. Like Hudge and TRexF16 did with their WSM's.
Gotcha, my mistake. All I've really compared is 150 grain load data, and the WSM is faster by less than 100 fps on average. The 6.8 is almost identical but .08" shorter than the WSM case. I don't know what that equates to case H2O capacity.
I'd imagine the WSM retains that speed advantage with bullets needing a faster twist.
LGS has a Winchester Model 70 Extreme Tungsten and the only reason I haven’t bought it is because I’m concerned about ammunition or brass availability.
Seems to already be dying with the introduction of the 7 prc.
Different action length, the 6.5 PRC will do more damage to the SAUM, WSM and Western cartridges than the 7 PRC. 200-300 pieces of good brass will probably keep me hunting the rest of my life with either a .270 WSM or 6.8 Western. As long as the military is interested in 6.8/.277 bullets, we'll have only more development for these bullets. That'll keep things moving along for the guys (like me) who like this caliber.
Anyone honestly think the 6.8 ammo/brass/rifles, etc. will be readily available in another 6-8 years?
Seems to already be dying with the introduction of the 7 prc.
My thoughts also. One reason why I have not gotten too excited about it.
I agree with Taylorce about the 6.5 PRC being more competition.
If I was to get a 6.8 Western, I would lay in enough brass to last. It is a modernized 270 WCF with tighter saami tolerances, but then my gunsmith has built me three WCF's that shoot lights out.
I keep waiting for a top tier brass manufacturer to come out with some 270 WCF brass. Although I can not complain about the Norma brass I have been using.
CRS - we think alike I had a 6.8 western built, did some load development work, then loaded enough rounds that as a hunter it will never run out. I got lucky found brass and bought sufficient amount that I will never be on the out of brass situation as a hunter. The rifle does shoot lights out better than i can hold it, 1:8 twist McGowen Barrel. No experience with any other .270 caliber round so I have no comparison I agree with others though good bullets, shot placement = dead critter.
When looking at the 270 WCF, 270 WSM and the 6.8 Western, I see no advantage from one to the other. If all run an 8 rpm, what’s the gain. With 24” barrels, the WSM is approximately 100 fps faster than the 270 WCF with 130-150 gr loads. The Western produces even less velocity than the WSM. All that’s needed is a comparable barrel twist rate and none is really any better than the 270 WCF. In fact with its std long action length you can use the longest high BC .277 projectiles (175 gr) on the market thereby utilizing case capacity more efficiently with less muzzle blast than a hindered 3.00” COAL SA magnum. Another benefit is the 270 WCF’s ability to create impressive velocities with a 22” barrel and a 6lbs rifle which makes for a better alpine/mountain carry firearm. Lastly, the WSM cartridges are slowly dying on the vine, the Western was never really popular to begin with and is already dead in my opinion. The 6.5 PRC is extensively more popular than both magnums are. If .277 is your thing, rebarrel to an 8 rpm and go for it in a 270 WCF. Even with a 10 rpm neither .277 SA magnums comes close to the 270 WCF reputation on killing game, it’s been out there doing it for 100 years. Only one man’s opinion.
Wanting a 270, I would build a nice 270 Winchester. On a #2 barrel with a top-of-the-line stock. Yes, we would put some top-quality glass on it, and have a nice hunting rifle. This rifle could fill an Ark with dead animals, you wouldn't have a problem.
Well, I don't think you would.
If you have a 270 WSM do the same, I'm sure, you'd be a happy person.
The reason, I gave all this information, I'm getting ready to build a rifle with these specs. Yes, a 270 Win.
I'm a long time 270W fan, had one of some variety all of my adult life, current 270 is a Win 70 from the 90s with a #2 Shilen stainless barrel @ 24" in a McMillan featherweight stock, a great rifle that has never let me down. That out of the way, if the 270 is not enough (seldom is) the 7 PRC is my go-to choice, have one and like it lots! Easy to shoot, accurate, high BC bullets, excellent long range performance. I think it's the best of the 7mm RM and 300 WM combined.
Graf's has Peterson brass listed for the 270 WCF, but out of stock. I am on the notification list, but who knows. I just sent an email to Peterson asking if they were planning a run on the original 270.
Everything in this thread has just brought me right back to a 1:8 twist original 270 WCF. Good thing since I already have one.
As I shoot out my other barrels, they will be replaced with 1:8's.
As I stated before, if I was to buy one of the new 270 cartridges, 6.8 Western would be it. I certainly would not get a 7 PRC, 6.5 PRC maybe.
I am so far down the WCF rabbit hole, I honestly do not see a 7 PRC, 6.5 PRC, or 6.8 Western in my future. I have thousands of pieces of brass, 3 sets of dies, and thousands of bullets. Not to mention nine different rifles. Just recently sent one down the road and have three others I am contemplating.
All of which PALES to a 21" 264 Kreed with .697 BC 147's at 2700fps+. Hint.
Just sayin'....................
What critters you killed with the 147?
I've not tried them yet.
The 147 in Kreed' has retired ALOTTA "big" rifles and is a mainstay in these parts for Moose,Elk,Bears,Sheep,Caribou,Goats Deer and Woof. Pretty much everyone,is flinging same,in a herd of Montuckies and Fieldcrafts,with admittedly some CA's too. Hint.
Brokedick Whining Windowlickers like to fawn schit they've never even fhuqking seen or shot,which is never not funnier than fhuqk. Hint.
I simply shoot it all and then some and am afforded the luxuries,of not being forced to guess. Hint.
That beats a 0.277 Badlands, 0.710 BC at 3000fps how?
It doesn't, it can't make up the speed and BC difference. The Creed will lose out in everything except for shootability. He's just trolling to see what he can catch for fun.
I've watched a kid that grew up hunting with my daughter shoot his first bull elk with the Creed and factory ELDX loads at 450 yards. It killed the elk with no problems. He's 21 now and that's the only bolt rifle he owns larger than .22-250, and he's been real reliable with it since he started with it nine years ago.
I don't currently own a 6.5 anything, but I've got a nice HVA 1600 action tucked away just begging to become a 6.5X55. However, the .270 Win was my first BGR larger than .243 and reardless of bullets I've used, that.277 caliber has never let me down if I've done my part. Inside 600 yds bullets don't matter much if you put them where they belong.
CRS just happens to be a Brokedick Lying Piece Of CLUELESS Fhuqking Schit,talking out her ass about things she's never even seen,let alone done. Hint.
Mono's need to be driven faster than the velocity cited and that is where cup/cores shine. For the Stupid Fhuqks who can't read,the .264" 135 cited,makes 2900fps easily. Hint.
Bullets matter more than anything,from the muzzle out. Hint.
NOTHING is fhuqking funnier than a Professional Victim Dumbfhuqk Tournament,as Crying Kchuntss duel to assert the "validity" of their contrived Imaginary Pretend Ignore. Hint.
More interesting data on the 6.8 Western vs 7mm PRC. With 6.8 Western brass being picked up by ADG I suspect it may come out the winner in the long run.
Pardon his theatrics and conspiracies. Take note of the data though. It tells a valid tale.
More interesting data on the 6.8 Western vs 7mm PRC. With 6.8 Western brass being picked up by ADG I suspect it may come out the winner in the long run.
Pardon his theatrics and conspiracies. Take note of the data though. It tells a valid tale.
Winchester .270/150 gr./2850 fps... Laughing at the new kids.
Also, use the Speer bullet BC's for the Nosler bullets in the same weight.
The BF video is a hoot. I hope it was put out as a gag on 04/01. There's so much to unravel in what he's trying to pass off as novel findings or "ideas". Lot of conflated equivalence.
I think, it's hard to go wrong with a 270 Winchester. There are other rifles with more power and the ability to kick more, not sure if it kills an animal any more dead.
I'm looking to build a 270W on a Win 70 receiver, the difference on this one is that it will be the first I've done with a Proof carbon barrel. The only Proof blank I see available in 22" (will be using a suppressor) is 7.5 twist which I'm afraid may be too fast for the 140-150s I intend to use. Can anyone offer any insight on this option?
I'm looking to build a 270W on a Win 70 receiver, the difference on this one is that it will be the first I've done with a Proof carbon barrel. The only Proof blank I see available in 22" (will be using a suppressor) is 7.5 twist which I'm afraid may be too fast for the 140-150s I intend to use. Can anyone offer any insight on this option?
I like the .270Win from a component availability perspective as well as the reliably smooth feeding that long sexy tapered case gives. I have a 22" 1:8 Lilja in 270Win on a Kimber 84L Montana. I've really only used 2 projectiles for accuracy/hunting (I'll use any old thing lying around for Fire-forming new brass). The 2 I've used are the 150ABLR @ 3K fps and 140gn Badlands SuperBullDozer @ 3075fps. Accuracy is excellent with both. The 140 Badlands gives me a bit more BC, an extra 75FPS, and less recoil (the 150's are snappy in a 7.25# all up package).
There's not a big-game .277 projectile made that would give me pause in a 1:7.5 twist. Perhaps some of the lightweight varmint bullets might go "poof" before they hit the target, but, anything actually made as a projectile meant for deer and larger should be just fine in a 270Win.
Using the M70 action I would:
1. Obtain a "magnum" length magazine or have someone remove the spacer to lengthen the box magazine COAL capacity from 3.34" to ~3.6" 2. Replace or shorten the bolt stop and ejector accordingly.
Using the Kimber, I'm locked in @ 3.34" COAL and those 140 Badlands are seated a LONG way into the case and are a country mile off the lands. As it turns out, it shoots them just fine, but, I certainly didn't stack the odds in my favor from the get-go.
More interesting data on the 6.8 Western vs 7mm PRC. With 6.8 Western brass being picked up by ADG I suspect it may come out the winner in the long run.
Pardon his theatrics and conspiracies. Take note of the data though. It tells a valid tale.
Not trying to ruffle feathers here but I think the 6.8 Western is DOA, just too many options these days for the 6.8W to develop a loyal following to keep ammo and rifle manufacturers stocking such items. For those who MUST have a short action magnum, the 6.5 PRC fits the bill pretty well.
To suggest that the 6.8 W outperforms the 7PRC, well maybe, but who cares, if were chasing velocity only there are others that leave them both in the dust. The 7 PRC in my humble opinion is the "easy button" for a high-bc bullet/cartridge combo that is ideally suited for long range hunting for those who are into that kind of thing. As much as I like my 7mm RM, the 7PRC makes both the 7RM and 300WM superfluous.
As I get older, I like to simplify my life, I don't care for heavy recoil and I like ammo that is affordable and available.
More interesting data on the 6.8 Western vs 7mm PRC. With 6.8 Western brass being picked up by ADG I suspect it may come out the winner in the long run.
Pardon his theatrics and conspiracies. Take note of the data though. It tells a valid tale.
IMO the reason for this is understanding the history of the PRC cartridges. George Gardner took the 7mm rem SAUM and made a 6.5 with it, His thinking was run a bigger case but at lower pressure for barrel life. Some people thought it was a success. It didn't make sense to copy the 6.5 saum that GAP was promoting so they worked together and developed the 6.5 PRC. The Truth is the 6.5 PRC runs about like a hot loaded 6.5-284. I think the same line of thinking applies to the 7mm PRC. either way you autta be rolling your own with the 7mm prc and you can load it up how you want. I like the PRC cases because you can get a bit more without the stupid belt on the case.
I like the 6.5 PRC but I already have a 270 Win and there's very little difference and I'm not hung up on short actions. I am quite found of this 7 PRC though!
bullet selection mutes 6.8 or 270 anything. my first centerfire was a 270, my dad only ever had a 270, my 270 is a 280 AI now and I have a 6.5-284. not getting anything 6.8 anytime soon.
bullet selection mutes 6.8 or 270 anything. my first centerfire was a 270, my dad only ever had a 270, my 270 is a 280 AI now and I have a 6.5-284. not getting anything 6.8 anytime soon.
Certainly makes it more difficult. There is a lot of potential but a dearth of hunters looking for 277 bullets means nobody is going to put serious effort into them sadly. 7MM projectiles have a huge advantage on that front and will most likely continue that way.
I'm looking to build a 270W on a Win 70 receiver, the difference on this one is that it will be the first I've done with a Proof carbon barrel. The only Proof blank I see available in 22" (will be using a suppressor) is 7.5 twist which I'm afraid may be too fast for the 140-150s I intend to use. Can anyone offer any insight on this option?
I don’t think you’ll have a problem with RPMs myself using hunting bullets. The Swedes been using 7.5-8 twist for years without an issue. I kinda think you’ll like what you see with lighter bullets turned up in RPMs myself.
the other resistance to 270 ever going anywhere is, look at the barrel twist in those millions of old rifles. Its really only the newer guns and that is IF they speed up the twist that new bullets could even be taken advantage of. a 270 that shoots 200 fps faster than a 270 win, doesn't sound like its really going to be a beneficial amounts when its not like your going to be using a 270 as a 6-800 yard gun.
the other resistance to 270 ever going anywhere is, look at the barrel twist in those millions of old rifles. Its really only the newer guns and that is IF they speed up the twist that new bullets could even be taken advantage of. a 270 that shoots 200 fps faster than a 270 win, doesn't sound like its really going to be a beneficial amounts when its not like your going to be using a 270 as a 6-800 yard gun.
I have shot a 1:10 twist 270 with the 145gr ELD-X quite a bit out to 800 yards. Nothing wrong with that combo at all. I can not imagine a 1:8 twist with higher BC bullets being worse.
I have not shot any of the standard 130gr bullets out of my 1:8 twist 270WCF, but it would not cause me any concern. A lighter constructed bullet could be even more explosive on game. But a mono metal might actually benefit from the faster RPM.
Industry support is not as vibrant with the 270, but it is there, and getting better.
bullet selection mutes 6.8 or 270 anything. my first centerfire was a 270, my dad only ever had a 270, my 270 is a 280 AI now and I have a 6.5-284. not getting anything 6.8 anytime soon.
That's interesting - because I've found:
130 gr. TTSX 140 gr. TSX 150 gr. Grand Slam/Partition 160 gr. Partition
the other resistance to 270 ever going anywhere is, look at the barrel twist in those millions of old rifles. Its really only the newer guns and that is IF they speed up the twist that new bullets could even be taken advantage of. a 270 that shoots 200 fps faster than a 270 win, doesn't sound like its really going to be a beneficial amounts when its not like your going to be using a 270 as a 6-800 yard gun.
I have shot the Hornady 145gr ELD-X quite a bit out to 800 yards in a 1:10 twist 270 WCF barrel. So I do not understand your 600-800 yard statement. Combo is perfectly capable at 600-800 yards. Took an antelope and mule deer with that combo. It worked great, but caused a lot of meat loss.
The more I read on the 6.8 Western, the more I like it.
Ordered a Seekins Havak Element today in 6.8 Western.
Got an email from ADG that brass is scheduled for Q1 2025. Redding dies ordered, Badlands 150gr SD bullets will be the 1st choice. BC 0.710 will trump a lot of number crunchers.
Custom is in the works, but easily a year out. Basic blue print. Still sorting details. Mack Bros Element, Manners EH6A, HS Precision DBM bottom metal , Pac-Nor SM stainless, or Proof Research light Sendero. Twist will be 1:7.5 or 1:8 depending on manufacturer.
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