Hi All:

I hoped you enjoyed the article on the Home Page. Even though there is another installment coming soon with more load data (and hunt ) results, I'll be glad to answer any questions you may have about the .338-.375 Campfire, or about the rifle Mickey Coleman built for me chambered in that caliber.

So, ask away if you're so inclined, and I'll be glad to answer the best I can.

Rick

Well Rick......where's the pics?

Great article Rick and look forward to hearing the rest...

Tom:

Pics of the rifle?

Greg:

Going tp the range in the next 48 for some more load development.

rb

Rick what fps are you getting with the 225gr TSX and at what barrel length?

randy

+1!!!! WTF?

Really. Need a new PD rifle and that sounds like it would work nicely.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1657064/page/0/fpart/5

Did I win the rifle?

Rick, I have some odds and ends 338 bullets if you need some to play around with. I could send you some 180g NBT's you can load for rabbits or ground squirrels. Would be interesting to see how fast you could run them.

Bb

I agree, where are the pics?

Hey Rick-you know I love the big 33's, what are you running for bullet/powder/tube length and speed?

Many thx
Dober

That looks like a dam fine large game round.

Gonna do a family of cartridges Rick..257 270 7mm 30 338 Campfires.

.358 Campfire would be sweet. :GRIN:

I'm liking the 7mm the best...

You would!

pics of the rifle are due, as well as the long overdue pics of the roy

Nice high key photo Rick!

Left to right: the .375 H&H Magnum, .375 Ruger, .338-.375 Campfire, and .338 Winchester Magnum

Rick,

Nice read, looking forward to reading the next installment. Also pics of the rifle, & dead animals

Mark

How about getting the .340 in the line up there as well and the 338 RUM or Edge?

Just a thunk
Dober

Is this going to be available to anyone desiring a custom build? How's that recoil? Thanks for the feedback on the stocks.... jason

How's the shoulder?

You'd think Rick of all people would know rule #1 at the 'fire.

PICTURES PICTURES PICTURES!!!

Yup, books are for text, but the Internet is for images!

jim

I love wildcats, don't get me wrong, but aren't you basically reinventing the 338 Remington Ultramag(an awesome elk cartridge in and of itself)?

Hi Guys:

OK, here we go:

I'll post a few in the next few days when I get the sucker to the range again.

RL:

Ken recommended a maximum of 88.5 of Ramshot Magnum behind the 225-grain TSX grains to reach a max safe pressure of 50,000 psi.

It's a 24 inch barrel.

At 82, 83, and 84 grains, the chrony did not register due to a shadow. Next cease fire I re-arranged and began getting some love:


86 grains
1] 2820
2] 2784
3] 2817
Avg 2807
ES 35.70
SD 19.97

87 grains
1] 2890
2] 2868
3] 2862
Avg 2873
ES 28.03
SD 14.73

88 grains
1] 2842
2] 2851
3] 2917
Avg 2870
ES 75.38
SD 40.95

89 grains
1] 2966
2] 2955
3] 2954
Avg 2958
ES 12.32
SD 6.63

I might go back to this load, check to make sure it's really this consistent over a larger sample, and mess with seating depth enough to convince myself there's no magic here. Accuracy was not great here, despite the numbers.

86 grains was well under MOA at 100 yards, so I tried it again at 200 yards to see what she'd do:

86 grains
1] 2837
2] 2736
3] 2807
Avg 2801
ES 36.13
SD 18.92 sub-MOA @ 200 yards (Yippee)

86 grains
1] 2858
2] 2822
3] 2857
Avg 2846
ES 36.00
SD 20.49 sub-MOA @ 200 yards (Very cool)

At no point did I experience any signs of pressure, but I could feel the powder crushing at 88 and 89 grains, and groups were opening up.

I'm going to try H4350 (Don Allen's powder of choice in the .330 Dakota) and Reloder 19 for the second range session, and we'll see how far she can go.

I'm especially curious to see what she can do with 250s. I think 3000 ft/sec out of 225s is asking for too much.

We'll see.

Bite your tongue!

Jason:

Mickey still has the reamer.

The recoil is real. About 105 FAST ft/lbs.

Rick-I'd suggest you also give R22 and R25 a go with the 225's and with the 250's all of those plus 7828.

How'd you scope the rig (sorry I must of missed it), also what's it weigh (it about sounds like close to 9 all up) and what does that tube mic at the mzl (.65-.67" I'd guess). And how long is the tube?

Many thx and keep us in the loop, the world of the big 33's is for sure a cool one!

Lastly, did you apply for elk in Montana again this year?

Tanks
Dober

Wow, what a great story! Love the logic for building "another" ultimate rifle! Also, neat that you involved all of your Campfire buddies, Mickey ,Ken, et al. Can't wait to hear "the rest of the story" and see the pictures!

Ennis

I use 91gr of RL19 and 225gr TSX in my 358STA and it flat shoots!
With your new .338 Campfire its a little more over-bore than my STA so I would think RL22 with the 225gr TSX mite be the powder your looking for!!! :GRIN:

The 338RUM will get a guy 3150 or possibly 3200fps with a 225gr bullet and an honest 2950 with a 250gr pill(I've done both with RL25)

Somebody has to do this in a 6.5

Tom,
We need to start calling you 'Mr. Overbore' or perhaps 'Barrel Burner!'

Yeah, I cant help it Im a 6.5 slut.

Somebody did already do the 6.5-300 Weatherby Wright-Hoyer at this powder capacity. This one gets my personal label of "over-bore".

The 6.5-300 RCM would be interesting though.

jim

Me too, Tom.
I only have a 6.5X55 right now, but I have been 'jonesing' for a 6.5-284Norma and/or a 264WM.

Ah well, one of these days!


HunterJim,
I didn't know that someone did a 6.5 on a 300wby, that thing must scream...

Yeah 340 somebody did, as a matter of fact there is one on Gunbroker right now.
My dream is to build one on a 378 Weatherby case with a 34" barrel, just for S&G and see what kind of velocities I can get with the 140 grain bullets.

Come on Ricky quit your teasing already...

Dober

I think Rick should be banned for not showing us the eye candy.....

Well-maybe not banned, I mean who the heck else would take on running this show...?

How's about an " Atomic Campfire Wedgy"....

Dober

I think being banned would beat a wedgy, Dober!


Seriously, I think Rick should give us rifle loons some pics to drool over!

Timmy

It has come to my attenion that Ron made a 7mm-378 WBY Magnum reamer last summer...He wants to run it through my STW in the worst way...He's got the rifle right now...Hopefully it will still be a STW when it comes back.

Do you have enough meat on your shank to do it?

Easy number 4 contour on that barrel.Lots of steel there.

But would rather my STW so he'll need to find another project gun...grin..

I try not to be a pesimist but maybe I am,I saw all the perenthesis around all that cost money item,and Im not knocking your round at all but a few years back I aquired a 338-06 A square and in the ballistics Ive read on it,she rolls right along at 100 fps. behind the 338 win mag.my particular rifle will shoot little ragged one holers in a bullseye at 100 yds. with H-380 and 250 gr. bullets and all I need is some old 06 brass cases,powder primers and bullets and Im in the game,So maybe I missed the boat but Im curious what a 338/375 campfire can do that my 338-06 cant other than maybe a battered shoulder,Id surley think in the hands of a good rifleman the 338-06 should take anything the 338/375 campfire can more economially and easier to get set up in,and then again there are some that like to swim off thier own private island and I guess I just have not reached that fork in the trail yet,dont get me wrong,Im not knockin you wildcat,Im sure its a thumper,my
$.02 on the matter at hand............

coyo:

All those parenthetical items is why I didn't do it before the advent of the .375 Ruger case.

With the .375 Ruger case, all you do is run it through a neck sizing die, just like you would with any lot of new brass to eliminate dents and flats in case mouths, and load away. It will feed in a regular old belted magnum action without modification (at least it will in my 700s and 70s).

The .338-06 is a fine round. The .338-.375 Campfire will have significantly more case capacity, with all the pluses and minuses inherent thereto. It's just a question of whether that appeals to you or not.

rb

Okay, so where are the pictures of the RIFLE itself?

Maybe I missed it but why the decision to stop at a 50KPSI limit? Seems like you would lose any performance advantage over the 60K+ win mag.

Rick,

Just ran across this on the home page.

All I can say is astounding!

I'm eager to hear more about your mastadon masher.

$bob$

I was quite happy to have a 50,000 psi max limit originally as there is no load date for this round. Erring on the conservative side was A-OK by me.

That said, I AM going to wring this cartridge out. With Ramshot Magnum, even though I exceeded Ken's max by .5 of a grain, the main reason why I stopped was because accuracy was deteriorating with each increase in charge weight above 86 grains, and also because at 88 and 89 grains I could feel the powder crushing when I seated bullets.

I'm going to try H4350 and Re19 next, and will also try Re22, H4831, maybe IMR 7828, and heck, the new RE 17 might be worth a try as well.

I especially want to see what this cartridge will do with 250s.

rb

I'm trying like heck to get to the range this weekend for more load data results.

rb

camera broke?

Ah I see...you used 50K to set a baseline and get a reasonable max charge. The round will obviously run similar pressures as any other modern round.

I got a question....was the lead in your chamber made to support a max OAL of 3.34" so this round will still work in standard length actions? Hint hint M77s......

Thanks!

That's a damn personal question!

Looks like a natural Rick. As a 340 afficionado, it looks like you have one in a shorter case and if it matters without a belt. I do like the shorter cartridge concept the most as the most accurate OAL with my 340 with it's favorite bullet in a "long" 700 is right up to the front magazine wall.

I would like to see chron'd loads (and your rifle of course) although I would guess that I can guess quite closely what they would be. Good day.

Gdv

Edited to say, sorry you already posted them; looks good!

The whole thing looks like a complete and utter waste of time to me........

AD

How do you really feel Allan ? Frankly, though it'll never reach the status of the 338 Win, it might be a better design. Sacrilage? I don't think so.

Gdv

That's real interesting Rick. I been thinking of a .338 something on that case for the Encore. Otherwise the .338-376OTTR, is my other thought. I look forward to your testing of the H4350, it's one powder I use a lot of. Very seldom has it failed my expectations. But I could live with the RSM 86-87 loads for all my intents and purposes also!

"The whole thing looks like a complete and utter waste of time to me........"

Most wildcats are, but has little to do with it. We would be missing some very good commerical rounds without wildcat'n.
It may not fill many niches, but when comparing Ricks results to the .338WM. I would much prefer the rimless over the belted case, for my applications.

Dave

Let's see, we already have the 338 Win. Mag., 340 Wby., 338 Lapua, 338-378 Wby., 338-06, 338 Federal, 338 RSM, and good grief, what else? I don't see any gaps that need filling in the way of another 338.....

Plus, logistically, unless you're going to just hunt paper or else hunt the South 40 for elk, I simply can't see the common-sense in hunting with a cartridge where the nearest source of ammo resupply is on your loading bench back home. For me, elk hunting's 200 + miles from home here in the S of C (75 miles if I decided to hunt Roosevelt elk), and much of of my hunting's 2,000 miles to 10,000 miles from home.

So we're to take a logistical big risk with a redundant wildcat that won't do anything that a host of other common (or at least semi-common, SAMMI-spec cartridges will do, and for the sake of WHAT??

Fun and games is one thing, but logistical common-sense-type applcation is often quite another ballgame altogether, and that goes for business as well as hunting......


AD

Funsucker

Allan, practically speaking you're dead right and you can see that I proved your point if you look at my last couple of posts on the 2008 CO Elk thread. I was just speaking from a design perspective, no more.

There is a lot to be said for keeping it simple. Have a good day my friend.

Gdv

Allen:

If you read the article, you'll see that I admit as much right up front. There's no need for this caliber. This is the result of a hobbyist scratching an itch for no other reason other than he wants to and can. No harm, no foul.

(Edited to add: There is no commercial upside intended or expected from this round. Mickey has the reamer if anyone wants to build one, but other than that, I'll be "in the red" on this deal in perpetuity.)

However, I must point out that the .338-.375 Campfire is about as redundant and as much of a waste of time as your favorite caliber (and mine), the .300 Winchester Magnum, was in 1963. At the time we had at least three greats: the .30-06, the .300 H&H Magnum, and the .300 Weatherby Magnum, (plus a slew of other .30s like the Norma, the Gibbs, etc.), and the .300 Winchester added nothing of note to the ballistic mix in this company.

About the only selling point for our favorite round then was that it offered a bit more punch than the .30-06 and the .300 H&H Magnum, and fit into a standard-length action.

Oh yeah, and it had the then-vaunted belt.

About the same argument can be made for the .338-.375 Campfire. It offers a bit more punch than the .338-06 and the .338 Winchester Magnum (especially with 250-grain bullets), and fits in a standard-length action, unlike the 340 Wby, .338 RUM, 338 Lapua, 338-378 Wby.

Oh, and it does away with the no-longer-vaunted belt.

I don't intend or expect it to take the world by storm, amigo, but it was fun nonetheless, and it has as much basis in "need" or "logic" as any number of other rounds that went on to be quite commercially successful and, in at least in your and my case, even perennial favorites.

Good post Rick...

WTF?....You're not exactly the board pragmatist yourself.

Some people just dont know how to have fun.......and wildcattin is fun.

Any dissension when it comes to any discussion of any wildcat cartridge is sort of like getting between a dog and his bone.

AD

Allen-
If we use the definition of dissension as partisan and contentious quarreling, then it offers little to what should be a recreational endeavor (discussing and learning from one another's experiences.) The fundamental point is that you pissed on Rick's project in a blunt and dismissive fashion. Moreover, you invoked "need" as the criteria for something being worth doing. But none of us "need" to hunt Africa--yet you have devoted much of your life energy to doing so. None of us "need" the refinement of a Echols Legend rifle--even D'Arcy has told me that some of the details are not "needed," he does them simply because he can. They are an expression of his craftsmanship, his knowledge, and his commitment. Rick did this wildcat project for exactly the same reason--because he could.

utah708,

You put that very well....

+1

$bob$

++
HD

+3

BMT

+4

Shall we...?
+5

Sounds like a stud of an elk killing gun. I for the life of me can't figure out why this isn't the route Ruger itself took, oh well Ruger gives us two new parent cases to mess around with now.

I know, I'm politically-incorrect, I'm awful, and I'm just an all-around cade for bringing up any sort of common-sense, logistical issues related to this topic. Quite honestly, I despise wildcats and I make no apology for it, especially if said wildcat will accomplish absolutely NOTHING that cannot easily be accomplish with an existing, standard, SAAMI-spec cartridge of the same caliber, which is certainly the case here.

I've been through this sort of discussion many times before, and in a lot of ways, arguing about any wildcat cartridge is a lot like sitting around dissecting a project with brokers, accountants, and pettifoggers: Introduce common-sense objections that defy any of the numbers or the claims, and everyone on the other side of the table is ready to turpentine you and run you out of camp.

There's a monumental, night and day difference between arguing about the performance qualities of a given rifle from a mechanical perspective and the persepective of quality, versus arguing logistics when it comes to cartridge-selection. And anyone who has had lost-ammo/lost rifle problems on the other side of the world, as I have, or has had mechanical issues with rifles, as I have, would easily see where I'm coming from.

But I know, this was all whupped-up in the name of fun & games, etc., so I'll shut up and stay out of it. I should have known better in the first place.......

AD

Rick....

Nice project. The fast .33's have a great deal to offer. I particularly like that ability to load up or down, depending on the game and range intended.

I have a .330 Dakota, that is still my baby after 8 years. Built on a Dak M97 action with a #3 SS Lothar Walther barrel, 24", cryo-treated, and a Brown Precision stock .... With Talley steel mounts and 1.5x5 Leupold, it weighs 8# 3 oz. I bought 200 cases from Dakota, and hope those will suffice for a long time .... their prices are exorbitant. The all steel bottom metal, w/ no effort to round corners or otherwise save weight, may be replaced with a blind box magazine and a steel trigger guard .... should pare about 5 - 6 oz.s off the weight. All said, it's a very nice rifle.

To the point. What is the water capacity of the .338-.375 case? The .330Dak case holds 97 gr.s, as you know. I'm curious about how close their capacities are.

With my rifle, my best Re-22 load averages 3015 fps with a Barnes XLC 225 ... with sub MOA groups. Recently, I've been hunting moose with Don's favorite H4350 and 230 Failsafe recipe .... averages 2895 fps with excellent accuracy. I'm looking forward to trying the new Hodgdon hybrid powder with 210 gr. and 225 gr. TRX's. Should be a natural for the fast .33's.

I had my .330Dak Magnaported to reduce the muzzle jump; very effective, allowing me to spot my own shots. Also installed a NECG front sight with a fiber optic bead to use with Talley's receiver sight. With the scope removed and the receiver sight on, the rifle weighs 7# flat ... and does have some recoil, but nothing intolerable or distracting. There's nothing and nowhere here in Alaska I wouldn't feel well armed to hunt.

Pics please.

I know this is off subject. Is the case length of the .375 ruger or .338-375 2.500"? Is the belt diameter the same as a belted magnum .532"? If so this could be a relatively huge breakthrough in case design. For the joe who wants a beltless magnum that will fit in a standard length magnum action. You wouldn't have to alter the bolt face or anything. A 7mm/.375 or .30/.375 Ruger would be a shorter version of 7mm and 300 ultra without that rebated rim. My understanding is there's already reamers coming out for this 2 chamberings.

Allen:

I respect your opinion, and agree with a lot of what you write, although I get the strong sense that if something doesn't make sense or doesn't appeal to you, you assume that it couldn't possibly do so for anyone else. I will only point out that a few months ago, when the RCMs were announced, you wrote:

I don't really care about new cartridges one way or the other, but I think that Ruger screwed up by not offering 300 and 338 cartridges based on the full-length 375 Ruger case.

For a lot of reasons, I hope these new Ruger short-mags prove to be a dismal failure...............

AD

I don't understand the flip-flop, as you obviously saw some worth in the full-length .375 Ruger case necked down to .338 then, and frankly am just going to move on in this discussion to those of us who do find the project worthwhile, or interesting, or fun, or useful, or logical.

I just think you like your calibers and don't see the need for anything else, an opinion I wholly respect and agree with. With a .300 Win Mag (or .30-06), a .375 H&H, and a possibly a .416 in your case, there's not much need for anything else, the entire .338 bore included.

I cede the point.

rb

endgameAK:

The case capacity of the .338-.375 Campfire is virtually identical to the .330 Dakota. I had 98 grains and change with new, unfired and necked down brass, and 99 just nigh of 100 grains with once-fired.


Oaktona.

Ya gotta read the article on the homepage.

The case length is 2.590 inches.

The belt diameter AND the head diameter is .532 inches.

And yes, the fact that you can neck the parent .375 Ruger case up or down and use a run-of-the-mill, unmodified standard belted-magnum action is a beautiful thing.

Bolt face, and most especially, feed-rail geometry is spot on, no belt, no rebated rim, and loading, at least in the case of the .338-.375 Campfire, is as easy as running the cases through a neck sizer before loading ... an operation I do with new brass anyway to remove dents and flat spots.

I'll have a range report when the rain lets up. Right now, it's pouring.

rb

Rick, now that you have the perfect elk rig, you'll likely not need your .338. I'd be happy to take that off your hands...

SKane:

PM me a number, and I'll see if I like it.

rb

And you'll cut a 1/4" off the 14" LOP stock for me?
I don't have the ape-like appendages that you have.....

Everything is negotiable.

rb

Rick, do you have any pictures of this rifle?????

Tom:

Yes.

rb

OK, okay, here's a pic:



rb

Rifle specs:

RH Rem 700 ADL
Pillar bedded into
McMillan Remington Classic, standard fill
1" Pachmayr Decelerator at 14 LOP
Painted sage green with black webbing
24-inch McGowan Precision #4, 1-in-10 twist
Chambered by Mickey Coleman
Cerakoted in matte black by Mickey Coleman
Kampfeld Custom "Campfire" bolt handle, knurled
Kampfeld fluted bolt (Rem Ti style)
Talley QD bases and rings
Leupold VXIII 2.5-8x36 in matte/duplex

Rick

Rick
Nice picture, good Buck, Gun looks great also.
HD

Dear Patagonia:

Kudos on your excellent Ether shell, which you will see pictured (as well as the Capilene worn below out of sight of the camera lens) that I used to help me harvest this beautiful Colorado mule deer buck.

As conservation partners of hunters worldwide, I'm sure you share my pride and satisfaction at contributing to the betterment of the mule deer herd in Colorado, as well as in contributing to the Colorado Division of Wildlife's funding in order that my license fees be used to further promote the balance of nature both hunters, 24hourcampfire.com, and Patagonia espouse.

Great shell, and great Capilene. I WILL continue to use them in my hunting.

Rick Bin

Thanks H-Down!

rb

SWEEEEEEEET!!!

$bob$

Thanks for the pics Rick.....I knew youd come through with a little arm twisting.
You got yourself a nice looking rifle and deer there.

Yep, kudos on both deer and rifle...

Rick, what does it mean: ? What is the meaning of "fill"?

Thank you!

nice rifle, nice deer, great letter


somebody has to have fun!

I noticed in Dave Scovill's article in Handloader (Vol.251 p.8) that Ruger/Hornady announced the .300 and .338 Ruger Compact Magnums (RCMs). It'll be interesting to see if they announce anything at the Shot Show this weekend.

Still wouldn't be as much fun as you had with 'rolling your own' and being the first one on your block to have a .338-.375 Campfire!!! Nice rifle and nice deer.

Ennis

Rick....

What does it weigh?
Have you chrono'd your hunting load?
If you were to build it again, what would you change?

Rick,

Well done as always! Congrads on the new cartridge, rifle and muley!

MtnHtr

So how is your round different from the new Ruger RCM in .338? I have not seen overall dimensions of the new Ruger round but it does seem ballistically similar to your design. Did they possibly hear of your little mission and decide it was a wildcat worthy of thought? That is certainly not unheard of, especially when you incorporated Ken Howell into the creation of the design.
Great pic and nice deer.
MCS

Hi Elmer:

McMillan stocks can be had in a variety of fill weight. EDGE hunting stocks typically weigh 23 ounces or so, finished. Fiberglass stocks can be filled from standard (32 ounces finished), all the way to solid (X pounds).

What I mean in the post is that the stock is a standard weight McMillan hunting stock.

That's what it's all about, my friend.

Ennis:

I was at the Hornady and Ruger events yesterday during Media Day, and no big announcement (yet). Got to shoot the .300 RCM in the small Ruger rifle. Also got to shoot a left handed Ruger Mark II in .375 H&H. Nice rifle (but it needs a 1" pad).

I'm going to their booths within the next 2 hours.

rb

EG:

About 8.5 pounds empty.

The data is above. My one (mild) hunting load that shot MOA moved a 225-TSX about 2850. Hotter recipes had it over 2900 with no pressure signs, but accuracy was deteriorating.

Frankly, I have only one range session under my belt. I was hoping to go last weekend, but we got hit with a rainstorm that messed up that plan.

I anticipate nudging 3000 fps with 225s. We'll see what we can do with 250s.

I might go with a little more stock weight in a subsequent build, and maybe swap colors around a little bit, but that's of no real consequence. I've built on 700s enough that I know pretty muvch whjat I'm getting into going in.

rb

Thanks, MtnHunter.

I was hoping for a bigger buck in this unit, but it was real warm, and there was a lot of pressure from elk hunters, which meant the bick bucks were nocturnal.

This was the biggest buck I saw all trip, so I was happy to take him. On the other hand, there were some monsters taken out of the unit, and I never did run into one.

It was a greaat trip, however.

MCS:

The new Ruger .338 RCM is a short-action cartridge, with a case length of 2.015 inches.

The .338-.375 Campfire is based on the full-length .375 Ruger case, which has a case length of 2.590 inches.

I'll put up a pic later if I can.

rb

Rick-nice buck, what state?

Also, any new developements on the big 33 front?

Thx

Dober

Mark:

Thanks. Colorado.

Trying to shake the flu and get to the range, but so far, it's been two weeks of misery. Gonna hafta skip a field trial I wanted to go to this weekend and try and mend, BUT, I just may be able to sneak off to the range. We'll see how I feel.

Worst flu I've ever had in my life. Knocked out my whole family as well. My wife went to urgent care yesterday.

rb

Rick,

Now you know why the wife and I get flu shots every October. She brings stuff home from school otherwise. I know we are geezers compared to you two, but the shots work.

Please tell Mrs. Rick get well soon from me!

regards...

jim

Getting over what is probably the same bug. It is absolutely the worst flu I've ever had too. Currently getting over bronchitis which resulted from it. This is a little over a month later.

Great project by the way. I am hoping Ruger will eventually make a 35 Ruger but doubt they will. Much more likely will be a 338 Ruger, 300, 7mm, etc. Mayhap a 35 Ruger will be my entry into the wildcat foray. Although I'll take a wait and see approach first. And before all the grumpy party pooper trolls weigh in; yes, I know all about the 35 Newton and the 358 Nukalpiaq, yadi yadi yadi, so save the know-it-all drivel.

Thanks Jim! I'll let her know.

Gringo: Yup, sounds like the same bug. I'm two weeks into it today and still doing an awful lot of coughing, as is the rest of the family.

The good news is I have my appetite back and have curtailed the weight loss. I've gone through a lot of orange Gatorade, EmergenC, and chicken broth the loast ten days!

rb

Rick,

Hope all end up well re: the flu. It's raging through here in NY, as well.

As my friend Randy said, someone's gotta have the fun! You definately did Rick. Very nice rifle and buck. I hope you did send that letter to Patagonia - well said!

--Mike

Nice story well told,
But i,m like a 3rd grader (I wan.t pictures) And just in case you need an excuse , there simply is no way the little .338 is enought for a brown bear. You simply have to build one in .358 for that !
Oh and of corse you could,nt use a pidilin little .358 for cape buffalo ! how do you spell four sixteen.
And oh what about elephant ? call it the .458 elephent masher ! whoopie I love spending other peoples money...tj3006

Rick have you been doing any more shooting with your .338-.375 Campfire? Any new hand loads?

Ive enjoyed the thread and congrats on that nice looking new rifle guy!

but I think Id have just had a similar rifle chambered in 375 ruger and been every bit as happy and successful with it...
Ive gone thru WILDCAT INSANITY a few times and as I got older and reflect back I find my 35 whelen,340 wby and 375 H&H do everything Ill ever want to do for ELK hunting, without going thru the effort or expence and hassles you usually have with wildcats

Well, here are the advantages I see to the 338-375 Ruger.

1. 340 Wby performance w/o the freebore
2. Plenty of length to use very long bullets in normal long actions
3. Diameter is of a size that has been shown to feed smoothly for years
4. Easy conversion of any belted magnum action. You won't have to do much if anything at all to the feed rails on a Remmy, nor will you have to get a wide and extended magazine box.

I wish the RUMs had been the diameter of the new Ruger Mags.

Blaine-for what it is worth I've had 4 Schneider 340 tubes all sans free bore, and I've never had any issue with length of the rounds in either of my old 70's and or my 700.

Also the 340 feeds as smoothly as about any round running out there and it goes into a 700 with no work having to be done.

The 340 is simply about as easy as it gets.

Dober

Dober,

My experience with the 340 wasn't as good as yours. In both freebored and non-freebored configurations my Shilen #5 just didn't shoot well at decent velocities. The fix was to rechamber it to 338 RUM. Added 150 fps and shot a 1/4" group.

Also, my feeding critique is not with the 340, it is with the RUMs and WSMs. The 338-375--being of no larger diamter than the belt on a belted mag--will feed great--just like all belted mags do.

Rick,

Have you had any difficulty buying/finding 375 Ruger brass to neck down?

No issues. I got a hold of 100 pieces of new brass, plus 80 loaded .375 Ruger rounds that I could use as a backup if needed (I can always use .375 bullets, and the unknown powder would make a helluva torch.)

I have lots of brass.

I have one more range session I want to do before I write the next installment, but I'll tell you this: I am seeing darn near 3000 fps with 225-grain bullets with no pressure signs. The barrel seems t like it a bit slower for best accuracy (at its sweet spot, she's definitely a shooter! Way to go Mickey Coleman!).

I'm moving to 250s next, where I hope the extra case capacity will further separate it from the .338 Winchester Magnum.

rb

Rick, in my 358 Norma long neck (untrimmed 300 Win brass) and a 23 1/2" barrel, I'm getting right at 2950 fps with a 225 grain TSX. That with 75 grains of Big Game. I would think you could do a bit better than that.

With 250 grainers I topped out at 2800 fps, that with 75 grains of IMR4350.

These 35's are nice cartridges!

Rick:

Yes, I'm a bit leery of creeping ever higher even/especially without any pressure signs.

Two things about a wildcat:

1] The lack of previous load data makes you think every time you pull the trigger; and

2] You have better appreciation of the potential for catastrophe even with standard cartridges.

We call this fun.

Maybe I missed it, but have you measured water capacity for your case?

How does it compare to the 340 WBY water capacity?

If the same could you just use 340 WBY data?


Are you annulling the brass? I'm guessing that will increase brass life....

I gotta go with 340Boy on this one; the RUM is all ready out there..............

This may be already posted here but I did not read all seven pages of this thread.

#1 will this clean out a 338 win mag chamber without setting the barrel back? I am guessing it will easily.

#2 will this fit in a Ruger rifle chambered for the 338 win mag or does it have to have a H-H length mag box?

If I was to use this cartridge I would just buy a 338 win mag Ruger rifle and have the barrel rechambered.

Heck of a project but... Me? I'd take a .338 RUM and run with it. Good factory ammo avail, dies & components readily avail, loading data readily avail and very good performance. Easily done in either a Rem 700 or a Win Model 70.

Regards, Guy

To me the whole intent of a project like this is simply "Having Fun"!!! If you have the means and it's a enjoyable hobby, why not play? We let our children play all the time "not with these types of toys" but, we still let them play. Obviously Rick isn't trying to reinvent the wheel, just had a brainstorm and followed through with it in which I commend him for.

Great work Rick,

Rob

If you look on page 375 of P.O. Ackley's hand book for shooter's
and reloader's you will find the 6.5/300 Weatherby-Wright Magnum
which was developed for the 1000yd. range.two loads shown
has 202 Hodgdon = 3429 or H870 at 3400 which should be very close
to what your talking about. Cheers NC

I shot the .375 Chatfield-Taylor for several years and it was a great rifle and duplicated the .375 H&H...I suspect the .375 Ruger is a better bet today than any wildcat.

When I bought my first .325 WSM there was hardly any loading data for it yet... so I can relate, 100%. Spooky feeling and it makes it harder to shoot accuratly.

Neat story! Back to lurk mode...

-jeff

First let me say, if doin this cat has you happy then good onU. I find AD harsh with his judgement. As much as a person can reason to not do this cat, one could also easily reason to do without an Echols rifle regardless of most chamberings. One can get a good reliable 270win or .338win rifle built for hunting the world without having spend on an Echols. Dont get me wrong, I like ADs'Echols rifles very much and Im glad AD is enjoying them, so a man should. Having met Darcy and seeing his product, hes a man sure of himself and sure puts out a mighty fine product,and any one that can afford them, then power n' a happy hunting life to ya!

Now to some questions to the lead up to this cat:

RWS 8x68s case: was stated as not being up to handling 60kpsi. I was of understanding RWS 8x68s cases have a reputation for being a very tough cookie and that RWS loads its factory rounds to pressures above 60kpsi?
How was it accertained that RWS brass was too weak?

Dakota 330: you opted out of this cartridge option, cause of a concern for the propensity of this case to have feeding issues, was that based on realworld feedback of .330dakota feeding behaviour in a std factory m70 action?
Out of interest I tried loaded rounds of 350rmag,6.5rmag and 7x57 in my factory saM70 22/250 receiver, and believe it or not, it fed them surprisingly good!

I do recall Z-hat ? .350AfricanExpress(necked up, blown out 8x68s)that was good for 250gn@2800mv.
How much different is .338/375ruger in capacity to .330Dak,340wm? , Dakota website shows .330dakota at 97gnWater. and if IRCC .350AE was around 90gn water.
If a person has high concerns about pressures while load developing a new wildcat, I would consider looking at GScustom HV variety pills, they are the only type I know of where you begin load development with the bullet resting against the lands, and where one can more safely begin experimental powder charges with much less possibilty or likelyhood of adverse or dangerous results.
>> http://www.gsgroup.co.za/faqloadproc.html

cheers.

Rick, would be interested in sharing load info or development. I changed the design slightly, to an AI 35 degree shoulder.

Close ups of the rifle and the targets would be nice . . . .

BMT

Please excuse a question which may appear too elementary for this forum. I have a .338Federal built by Brad Hunt of Winnemucca NV on a Huskie commercial action, Lilja barreled, Brad's homegrown kevlar stock..Leupold ultra light variable.
With 3 rds in the magazine and a nylon sling this rifle weighs 5.9 pounds and while I can only shoot 2" grps at 200yds others have shot it better. My question is, where does this rifle and cartridge fall short in your quest for the perfect elk rifle?
Is it range primarily? And in your elk hunting experience how often would my .338F have come up short in a 300yd outside parameter?

Rick,
Could you tell me the OAL of the 338-375 with the 250gr bullet.
Thanks

I personally think the description of the perfect Elk rifle is each ones own opinion and they all vary.Size matters only to the individual shooter.

Rick,

If you've been out to the range again I'd be thrilled to see your new load data. My buddy and I are gunsmithing students at Lassen College and we're each building a 700 in this cartridge. Should have them barreled a few weeks from now. Thanks and I must say- great idea. If you need any help defending it from attacking morons..you can call on me.

Hank

By the way, when's part II coming out?

So, what's the latest?

Rick,

Nice read.. I gotta tell you though the 330 Dakota is perfection.. I have shot a 9' 10" Browine, dall sheep, moose, black bear and never had a want for anything else.. the 330 was Don Allens favorite caliber. I spoke with him and he shot a Cape Buffalo using 230 gr fail safe. He told me it went 50 yds and was dead. I wish you luck and applaud your passion.. but 2.00 a shell is nothing considering what hunts cost these days..

By the way.. I have NEVER had one single feeding problem with my 330 dakota. It has been to hell and back.. I have carried in over 80 days in the mountains in Alaska. I have a safe full of guns and the last one I would sell is that 330 dakota. One more thing... 250 gr. Swift A frame is hell on wheels. I have yet to recover one.

I too am waiting (impatiently) for the rest of the story on the 338/375 bin/campfire. I an thinking a 304/375 (04 moniker to build on 204 Ruger poularity)would be a good move by Ruger. Altho it will duplicate several existing cartriges, it could rechamber about 60% of the rifles in America. Not that it might sell alot of ammo for Hornady.

I personnally am looking forward to the 254/375 Ruger, because my 7 MM RUM is not overbore enough.

1st post, longtime viewer.

I would like too see some close- ups of the rifle. I like the paint. Did you do the paint ?

Nice rifle and buck !

Tim

been there too long; get ri of it

get rid of it; enough is enough; I have a 1907 autoloader 12 ga.
I will picture

I used to like the 30-06 and 338 because they shot about the same trajectory, albeit the 338 Win with another 50 grains, or a bit more.

I then came to prefer the greater distance of trajectory of the 270 and 300 Winchester magnum, the problem was what to do for a larger bullet? I never cared for the few 340 Weatherby rifles, which passed my hand, and this led to my necking up the 8mm Remington magnum, which is similar to the 340 Weatherby. I would think the necked down 375 Ruger to 338 would be even better.

I had some experience with the 404 Jeffery case and I know Dakota used it, I think it is also the bases for the ultra magnums; however, I have not looked to new ammunition in some years now. It seems the ruger would be a fine choice and I wonder why Ruger did not make the Alaskan in this calibre? It would shoot a little faster, have the trajectory of a 270 or a 300 Win with respective weight bullets; that would be nice, a 130-150 grain shooting rifle, a 180 to 200 grain rifle and a 225-250 grain rifle all shooting at close trajectory given the prospective relative weight.

For all practical purposes now, I would not need this but I still find it interesting

The title says ask ??'s

Do we get answers ?

Have owned .338win and .338rem ultra mag rifles along with .300rum and .30-378wby. Still own several .300win mag precision rifles and TRG-s in .340wby.

Most versatile round I have found is the .338/300win. Will just about duplicate the .340wby, but allows more flexibility of loading range. I use XMR 4350 powder and 250gr Sierra or Hornady bullets and load from 65gr (very mild ,about like .308 in a varmint special rig), to 78+gr which is is FIERCE, but not over-pressure.

This is a very longtime wildcat, but no load data around, so I extrapolated using 300 & 330 Dakota and 300 & 340 Weatherby data.

Have been a longrange and tactical enthusiast for over ten years, but cannot see value of going RUM, Lapua, or .378wby variant. For sure don't see the chey-tac or bmg ctgs as field viable.

About all I wish for is a non-belted case of .300win mag dimension, yet I ream my own barrels and therefore can set headspacing to the shoulder instead of belt and achieve almost same result. With minimum oal chamber case life is excellent, accuracy the same and moderate powder charges give longer barrel life.

Also have a cast bullet mold and intend to get around to casting some one of these days. Very easy to ream a .338win barrel to 338/300. Very easy to reload using 338 seater and .300win FL bushing die with custom bushing; or buy a wildcat die set.

Whenever I try and read the article on the homepage it links me to the 'Big Eyes' article.

Anyone help a guy out with a link to the article about the wildcat?

Anyone???

Bueller?... Bueller?... Bueller?

Well, The person who was working on the development of this round has not posted to this thread since April of 2008. Seems as though he has dropped the project and maybe decided to pull the article so poeple would let it go and stop asking about it. Sucks too because I have really been waiting for updates because this round sounds like exactly what I would like to carry for elk hunting. I use a 338-06 right now and it doesn't allow me to get the trajectory that I want from the bullets that I would like to shoot. I have a 338 Edge that is just too much gun (and far to heavy to carry around the mountains at 15 pounds, 3 ounces). The 338-375 sounds like it would fall dead in the middle performance wise and could be had in an 8ish pound rifle that wouldn't throw you into orbit when you pull the trigger.

what up with the 25 pronghorn ,or 25stw,ste some info thanks

Doesn't this round seem an aweful lot like the 8mm remington magnum that was basically born and went extinct on the same day.....? Oh, it is exactly the same aside from very slight bullet diameter :P

How does one access the article(s) mentioned at the beginning of the thread?

Who made the original reamer for this cartridge? I’m interested in doing something similar for a new deer rifle and would like to look at the reamer print for this.

Just reading through some old threads and found this one. My nephew shoots a 375-338 Chatfield taylor. Basically, a 338WM necked up. Decidedly deadly on big BC moose.

This thread could have some modern updates now that we have the 300 PRC. What would the best shoulder be and what would a recommend twist be for a 338 PRC?