I have 2 custom rifles and love them. I have had people tell me that custom guns are a big waste of money when compared to some of the quality main brands out there. Mainly because the SAKOs, Kimbers, and even savages and Rems will shoot just about right there even with them. What say yall...? Is A 3000$ custom 5 times better than a 600$ remington? 3 times better than a $1000 Sako?

I'll bite.

Sure they are if you can afford them. You can go with bling, no bling, wood, synthetic, barrel length, throated like you want, "exotic" calibers, sights, etc.

I only have one that is a full blown custom from the ground up. All others have been tweaked or modified in someway by rebarreling, new stock, etc.

I bedded a rifle for a bud recently and he had Karl do all the work. Damn thing shoots seems to shoot anything, bet it would shoot lug nuts under an inch. Is it worth it to the owner? I dare say yes.

YMMV.

Cost becomes relative and subjective, when dealing with this sort of issue. It's like art ... it's worth what it's worth - to the buyer ...

There are a few 'off the shelf' rifles out there that I consider very good, and fitting a niche that I have - which keeps me from having to have one screwed together from scratch to obtain ... and it's usually cheaper (or about the same) as having a custom built.

But, when you have a want/need for a certain style/type of rifle, the ONLY way to get it might be to have it built from the ground up, and will cost you somewhere around $3000 ...

so, the question really is not whether the custom rig is "five times better" ... the real question is, are you willing to spend what it will cost, to have a certain rifle built specifically for you? ...

If the main reason was to shoot little groups, I would have a hard time justifing it for a hunting rifle.


Terry

Easy, you get exactly what you want.

good answer & I agree with all of u...i was just curious what the feeling was out there

$3K sounds real steep to me ... at least for a McMillan stocked 700 or 70.

If we're talking wood and blue, then $3K probably will not get you into the ballpark.

But I could build two screamers for $3K.

rb

RIck I agree, i put 3000 out there because it wasnt as much as a LEGEND or JARRETT OR SISK but more than a rem action with a mcm stock

Questions like this are always subjective. I mean why even hunt when buying meat is even cheaper?

It's all about choices.............

MtnHtr

I wanted a 257Wby, and I wanted it on a Winchester SS Classic action. My only choice was a rebarrel and I was WWWWAAAAYYYY under 3K.

I was using the $3000 price point because that's what the OP used ...

I've had a full synthetic/700 custom rig built, and it was about $2000 when it was all said and done, considering rings, bases, new bottom metal, stock, action/truing, bbl, installation, bedding, yadda yadda yadda ...

The best bargain in a hunting rifle, is to buy a used custom. Mule Deer wrote an article about this subject. Let someone else take the loss, and you get the bargain.

Like buying a foreclosed home for .50 cents on the dollar.

like driving a ferrari when a yugo will get you there in the same amount of time provided speed limits are followed...

I have to agree, the Sako 75 is my idea of the Yugo of hunting rifles

fwiw & imho,
That would depend largely on how picky the end user is...

I've seen many, many Remington 700s sent to Pac-Nor to be "trued" and barreled. Said barreled action was then bedded into a McMountain Rifle Stock, or in earlier days a $125 KS Stock, by the owner. The trigger is adjusted and we are presented with a "custom" rifle... Might be to some folks. SOME of those who do their own bedding work are worthy of the "Custom" tag for whatever that's worth and whatever that means to you... Some of these rifles are super neat and don't look like project guns. Many, many, many others do...imho

On the other end of the spectrum you can have the best in the business do the entire project AND stand behind the entire gun... I've never seen a project rifle that made me wonder if Dave Tooley put it together.

Along those same lines it really depends on what YOU are looking for... If perfection is what you seek look to those who ARE the elite of the business and bite the bullet. That does not mean I endorse Kenny Jarrett's pricing or think he is the end all. I'm referring to those who are just under the surface who do world class work and don't work for free. You'll have to make the decision as to just who that is...

One way I've learned to avoid SOME average builders pretending to be IT, definately not all, is to pass on those who hover on internet forums trying to generate work... If they are doing package deals in heavy volume you are probabely not getting the best work available. Sometimes you DO find semi production shops that do SUPERB work. I found such a group that I thought built as solid a 700 as any I'd ever shot. Soo much so that I had them build 9 rifles for me over a four year period. One smith there actually. EVERY rifle was nearly perfect and were absolute hammers...

Fast forward to the ninth rifle that shot soo bad I did not have the confidence to shoot it for deer season last year. Spent over a week working up hand loads with every loading trick I could pull out of a hat. 2 MOA at 300 yards. THE DEER, my deer, presented a tough shot at precisely 403 yards from my stand. My 8 pound $2500 sporter(plus Talley Rings/Bases and Leupold LR, Murry Sling Aside) had to be left in the safe and I had to climb a 30 foot salt treated pole and hoist up 16 pound Tac Rifle to wait for my deer...

Evidently the owner of the company DOES NOT like to stand up to his dick ups and hence EVERYTHING involved with getting this rifle fixed has been a royal goat****. They've had the Rifle since before SHOT and they've still not gotten down to fixing the problem. A terse e-mail, after he'd been hard at work on the rifle for 2.5 months, yielded he was waiting for a reamer, 140 grain bullets, and had to borrow loading dies from a friend. He tried to explain why 175 and 180 .284" Match Bullets were ideal for 22" barreled 7mm-08 and Eastern Whitetail.

120 and 140 Ballistic Tips and and 120 TSXs, among others, shot 2 MOA consistently. Even after a scope swap to a KNOWN 16x Mark 4...

Turns out my rifle was chambered with a reamer setup for 175 and 180 grain Match Bullets. Explains the .100" ish of distance to the lands I was getting with the longest round that would fit in the magazine. In short this is our last dance... Like Dana White, I am out of the ** ********* business even if this sporter goes on to shoot in the teens.

In short do your research and make up your own mind. Don't get caught up in the cult like followings on some internet sights. I've found many of those "cult" like followers who have never owned a rifle by the builder, a scope by the manufacturer(one of whom is still working on a mock up while taking deposits), or whatever widget they are pimping...

The older I get the more of a curmudgeon I become. That said one gains perpective for that which is truly excellent...fwiw & imho.

Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270

I slipped of the slope of building guns for three reasons. First, being left handed, if I wanted anything other than vanilla, I had to do it myself. Second, I like good wood, and that typically requires stock work. And finally, on some guns I like to try to push the accuracy envelope, and that argues for benchrest style rifles (I don't know of any factory guns that can shoot in the 2s as a standard.)
So I have a blend of high utility LH hunting guns, pretty wood guns, and BR guns.
But if I was RH, I would have things like Kimbers in my safe.

I think Im falling off the "custom gun" band wagon. I had 2 customs built by Dwight Scott and Karl in kind of a joint effort and they came out great, but it took forever. No fault of the smiths, but if you want one of the real good guys to do one for you its upwards of 2 years before you can shoot the thing. Plus my guns were hunting guns, not wildcat stuff, pretty plain jane.

I took Karl a 7-08 in a LVSF, he recut the crown, bedded it in a Ti take off stock, removed the wart, cleaned up the trigger and did all the sexy bolt stuff and the gun is one the most accurate and good looking guns I own.

One of the customs that Dwight and Karl worked on has been a real PIA on the other hand, totaly csutom gun on a 700 action, Kreiger, McMillan, Leupold, Tally, the whole thing and now it got a bad barrel and back getting rebarreled. Had this been a factory gun I could have shot it before hand and either sold the gun or planned to have it rebarreled. Either way I would not have waited 2+ years and then been let down because it wont shoot which is one of the pit falls of a custom.

So I guess my thinking is that if you going to hunt deer or what ever, in a standard caliber, I feel Im better served with a "cleaned up" factory offering and not going to the extent of a full blown custom. Not that Im not all about customs mind ya, just factor in the time and money and the factory stuff seems to shoot just as well with out all the hassel, plus you have spent less so you can have more of them!

This 7-08 is the first one I have cleaned up so to say and maybe I just got lucky, but for my use this is a much better way for me.

Im sure I will build custom rifles till they put me in the ground but I feel its a mistake to over look a worked over Remington 700 IMHO.

A good SS 700, bedded in a quality stock that fits right is hard to beat for the money. Average joe can do the bedding and stab in an aftermarket trigger. Suits me fine for a hunting rifle.

I shoot all year long and have 2 custom benchrest rifles that really shine. I have a lot of Mauser Custom hunting rifles . I don't fish ,golf, smoke, boat, go to ball games or drink beer . Heck I can afford some rifles. Its a choice and its not practical for someone who only hunts a few days a year, but it sure is nice to wrap your hand around something made just for you.Afterall it is the sport of the chase , the taste of old whiskey and the smell of a pretty lady that keeps us alive. Deer meat cost more than Caviar. Yesterday I was 25 and today I am 63 and have heart problems. So I say YES Buy you a Custom built rifle and don't look back,just enjoy it while you can.

Pride of ownership. I can't explain it if you don't understand it.

And why do people always bring up the accuracy thing? It ain't about just accuracy. I guess if I don't understand it you can't explain it to me.

I definitely agree with that, so please pardon me if I take a back hand approach to that statement.

Being left handed, the main reason for a custom rifle is to get something the factories don't make. But I've also chased the accuracy goal as a major criteria in all of my customs, and for that one criteria alone I do not think a custom is worth the extra money.

No doubt, a well put together M700 with a custom tube and some truing will lay'em in there close, day in and day out. But I've just had too many out of the box rifles whose total cost was less than the rebarrel job that would do the same thing.

Oh, maybe the best customs would average .6" or so for it's best load - again that's day in and day out, over dozens and dozens of groups - not those full moon occasional bragging groups.

But I'v got factory rifles that average .8 or .9" under the same criteria. How much do you want to pay to put that fourth or fifth bullet within .2" of the first three? And especially how much is that bench accuracy really going to help you when you're shooting all your game at 200 yards or less?

And that's just comparing the best customs. I've had three that stick in my mind that cost 2-3 times a factory rifle and wouldn't shoot one whit better.

I've had customs and factory rifles that feed, fire, extract and eject with equal reliablity and ease, and customs and factory jobs that bobble those operations equally.

Anyway, there are plenty of valid reasons for getting a custom and if they make a difference in pride of ownership that's all you need. But I'd say only a few of those reasons really make a practical difference in a hunting rifle.

If you're making a wood/blued gun I totaly agree, but if its in a McMillan and bead blasted stainless it ALL about the accuracy. But to me its all about the accuracy anyway, dont care how good it looks cuz it better shoot, if not, I will not own it for long.

For me the value in a custom rifle is getting exactly what you want on a long list of "here is what I want". Those may be functional specs, or they may be beauty (walnut and engraved blue steel).

My wife only has one rifle, but it is a custom. She is a lefty, and is also small. That means "normal" stocks don't fit her, even the pistol grips have to be custom built.

I mostly trophy hunt, so I carry my rifle way, way more than I shoot it. This time around that translated to buying a NULA M24 in '06 (thin stainless 24" barrel).

jim

until remchester starts selling out of the box pre-war style guild rifles i'll keep building customs & buying guns that were already customized. most of my rifles are hunting rifles so i'm not to concerned about tack driving accuracy but i still expect them to shoot good.

The biggest plus for me in building "custom" rifles is fit and balance. At 6'2", 13.5 LOP is too short for me. A McMillan with the right LOP makes a tremendous difference in how a rifle handles for me.

Also, when I re-barrel, I pretty much know how to get the balance I want by messing with barrel contour, length, and shank length.

Yeah, a factory rifle is plenty capable of taking game, and 1.25 MOA = dead critters. But I prefer to hunt with a rifle that fits me well and balances/handles like I want. I can do that for:

$350 donor action
$500 rebarrel/blueprinting
$400 McMillan

I bed them myself, but there's enough left over there for a set of Talleys and a start on a good hunting scope.

Like I said, wood and blue is a different ballgame, and not one I'm averse to.

But you can build a screamer for a buck and a quarter.

rb

Who can put up big pics of a $400 factory gun on the net and have all their peers oogle it and drool?

Only a custom or fine old classic can give this sort of thrill to the proud owner.

I hunt with a mix of custom and factory rifles,and have owned my share of both over the years,and I guess it breaks down like this:if you are "lucky" enough to end up with that minor percentage of factory rifles that shoot really well, hold point of impact,and function flawlessly under every reasonable circumstance likely to be encountered in any hunting situation,then there is no need to mess with a custom. A lot of factory rifles meet these criteria, but many may not; if you have messed with a bunch of those, you will find it easy to justify a custom.

For me, the decision to go custom is predicated on a desire to end up with something more reliable and accurate than I can reasonably expect of a factory gun; it's a question of odds.With many good customs, a lot of the messing around and tuning you read about on here is eliminated.Saves time and inspires confidence, which is worth the extra money.

There can still be pride of ownership in a plastic stocked gun. Especially if you did some of the work yourself.

Even with plastic stocked rifles it shouldn't be all about accuracy. I'd like mine to work right too.

But, now i'm trying to explain it.

To be perfectly honest, I'd promised myself I'd never do another full custom. I assumed I could get just what I wanted with a tweaked factory rifle. I might replace a stock. Actually, I've got one factory rifle that has had two custom stocks that each cost me almost as much as the whole rifle did originally. I'm kinda demanding, I am.
Then I spent some time shooting with guys that had some of their rifles made by our local custom rifle maker. So I had him do that second custom synthetic for me. I am very impressed with his work. If it doesn't work to my satisfactiobn, he gets right on it and makes it work. Had him do that for me, ( bad, out of spec magazine box) and have seen him do it for others.
Then I had him redo each of my custom rifles. Made them lighter, changed a safety to a design I prefer ( the M70 safety) and shifted the balance point. While all of that was going on, I got to look at his work and talk about what he and I like and why.
I really wanted a new elk rifle. I didn't realize that it is quite possible to make a really accurate and really light sporter with a mauser action. I was going to buy a Kimber, but I couldn't find one. Besides, with a full custom, I get a really nice barrel and a first class job of putting it in the action.
All of this means I've discovered that I can have a rifle with every feature I want. That means all the ones that I've come to understand I really want. Just the right lenth and contour barrel. Within a few ounces of the weight I want. Just the right balance point. So.... I'm doing another.
Is all of this worth it ? When I go after big game, I spend lots of time and lots of effort. It is the most demanding thing I do. A properly designed rifle, that meets my needs exactly, is an asset that can give me an important edge. That and quality binoculars, high tech clothing, etc.
Worth it ? Is my fancy new Dodge pickup and my fully equipped Lance camper worth it ? How about the Jeep I tow behind it ? You darn right it is. All of it. E

I've had lots of customs and loved them all and then moved on. I'm glad there was a LH model 24 NULA in .30-06 in my safe when the fever broke. I also am a Blaser fan and have two of those, and barrels of many calibers can be had, and they are marvelous to travel with. My conclusion, though, if you can afford it, and you derive benefit from it (pride, accuracy....any benefit), then get the custom you want, down to the last detail. The process can be exciting or maddening. I'll say that several stand out's have helped me and been a pleasure to deal with.....Rick Bin, PacNor barrels, Melvin Forbes. I've had my best luck with gun trading using Mark, at First Stop Guns in SD.
Don

For me, it was a bolt 358 Win. If you look at all the older 358's, they were lever guns (Savage,Browning,Winchester). Donor action was a Remington 700 243 that was sent to E R Shaw. I purchased parts to complete the build from everywhere (Ebay,Midway). Factory Remington Walnut stock that I had to dothe barrel channel. Shaw just did the barrel, lugs and blue and I did the rest. So for under $1,000.00, I got what I wanted. Ruger came out with the 358 Hawkeye after my build and I bought 1 of them too.

A few companies did make an earlier bolt 358 but you just couldn't find one that somebody wanted to sell. Now they're everywhere. Gunbroker has a custom 700 358 for $2100.00 and it's been there for ever. Why should I pay that much money for that custom when my build was half the price and it's what I wanted.

Ken

I am retired, so a custom rifle is out of the question for me, but, if I could buy one, or two, or three, or...yes I would do it.

It is not unusual to find a factory, off the shelf rifle that will group into an inch or less. A custom rifle might or might not do as well, but it should.

A factory rifle serves me just as well as a custom rifle, but yes, I would like to have one, and I would, if...well, you know.

Actually, I do have one. When in my 20s, long ago, I worked at a gunsmith shop. I wasn't a world class gunsmith, but I learned a few things.

At the time, an FN commercial 98 costs about $65.00. I saved up enough and bought the action. A premium grade Douglas barrel was about $50.00, fitted, so I sent the action to Douglas and had the barrel installed. I did the bluing myself.

I bought a Fajen semi-inletted stock, in a design similiar to a Weatherby, and inletted and finished it myself. It is a 7 M/M Wby. Mag. That is one reason for building it. The 7 M/M Wby. was and is my favorite cartridge, and except for Weatherby, the caliber was not available in a factory rifle, and a Weatherby rifle costs almost $300.00. No way could I afford something like that.

It has taken Colorado mule deer and Wyoming antelope, and a bunch of Georgia white tails. My oldest son has it now, and he took a white tail with it two years ago.

I told my son I wanted him to have it, and whenever, when the time came, I would like for him to hunt with it, and if he would, to take the time to give me a thought or two when he was on a deer stand and holding it like I had held it for so many hours.

My grandson is 10, and I want it to go to him when he is old enough. I would like for him to do the same as I hope my son
will do.



This picture was published in The Weatherby Guide sometime in the mid 70s. Me, about 100 pounds lighter, the rifle, and the antelope. Mr. Weatherby sent me a nice note, along with the catalog.

Wow, lots of good stuff.

While I cannot say my rifle is custom in the truest sense it is custom to me. Brand new Wby Mark V Fibermark in 7mm Wby Mag, cut the barrel to 24", Ceramic coated, 20 oz. custom stock, Swarovski 3-10x42 mounted with Talley Q.D.'s.

It is the most I have ever spent on a rifle in my life. About $2800 when all was done. It felt custom to me. I did the trigger work. Adjusted it to a 2# pull and zero creep.

The gun shoots under an inch with its favorite loads. While shooting my Shilen barreled customs, under an inch was highly unacceptable, one hole groups were required. The Wby consistently goes 1/2" to 7/8". I have determined it to be sufficient. I had opined for a custom for months but finally decided the extra money was just not worth it. I now have what I want and want what I have. That is a Wby Mark V, Remington 700 Classic & an Encore Shilen Stainless all three of which are 7mm Wby Magnum. I don't shoot the 700 Classic simply because I prefer the Mark V. I sit on the couch at night and rack the bolt as many times as I can stand it to smooth it out.

I am currently only the steward of my guns as they will outlive me. When they are passed on I can only hope my posterity will embrace them as I once did.

Ultimately your favorite gun is only a material possession. I think we all are due at least one ultimate firearm before we die. If you want a custom, build one.

To the man that asks. No!

In the eye/hands of the beholder. Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


8mmwapiti

I like Custom rifles as they have all the bells and whistles, much like custom cars, saddles, and whatever, these things are for those are dyed in the wool...

Will they kill any better than a factory rifle, probably not, but they will handle better, probably be more accurate but not necessarly, the look better and have a high grade of wood that is cured, layed out properly, and finished so as not to warp or move as most factory rifles will do, they are tweeked to feed and have custom triggers, sights, swivels, buttplates or recoil pads, any niceatee that one desires on his personal gun...

The reason I use them is because I can make them, I make a little money selling them, and they are a piece of functional art.

Take your choice and I am sure either will kill your buck, elephant or whatever your hunting....

It's a point of diminishing returns, and as such, it's more about pride of ownership than anything else IMO. I have one put together by GA Precision and really enjoy it. Did it turn out exactly as I had wanted . . . no (stock was heavy and didn't look like I had thought - shoots great though - this in no way is a slap at GAP - I chose the stock). That can happen.

I also think these "custom" or semi-custom rifles are worth more to those that procure them, as it's been my observation that they are harder to move with the price tag that comes with them. Find a trust-worthy seller and a pretty good deal can be had on a semi-custom, with no wait.

Most Tikka fans on here will be the first to let everyone know that you don't need to drop a bundle to get accuracy. I've a stock Tikka T3 in 7-08 that boringly shoots tiny groups, with factory fodder. Being a simple deer hunter here in Michigan, it doesn't even see any abuse, so it's construction is really of little concern to me (as long as I don't lose that $60 magazine).

But like I said, it's chasing that perfect set-up that intrigues. It's like the recent discussion on watches, a plain quartz will equal or beat many automatics for long-term accuracy, but there's something special about owning fine things - I think it's pride and appreciation for fine craftsmanship. You only live once, and I've never regretted owning fine things.

DB

Recently, I read an article about custom rifles. The author said something about as soon as you walk out the door with it, it is worth about half of what you paid for it. That is probably true, if you had it built for resale.

Just my opinion, but if I had an expensive rifle built, it would be worth the price to me. Whether it would be worth that to someone else (probably not) is another question.

Some of the older custom rifles, those by Griffin and Howe, Pachmeyer (sp?), Al Bieson, and others are worth a lot more than the original cost, and even more than that if they were owned by a well known gun writer or famous person.

A well put together-done right custom rifle is worth the money to me. mainly to best eliminate variables that would bug me in a factory rifle. Its something I should have done many years ago,instead of fidling with too many factory rigs for so long.
It could be plastic stocked custom rem or walnut mauser for many $$ more, just depends your level of budget and desire.
Custom guns are something like fine diamonds,regardless of the high quality of the base materials, they still need to be precisely cut to ideal pre determined dimensions and tolerances to give the best return.

Two 7mm Weatherby fans on this thread, and two great stories. I also think the 7mm Weatherby is a superb under rated cartridge.

Yes indeedie! However many "factory-made rifles" are sloppily constructed with "cheap" mass-produced barrels, stocks, and other materials.

Custom "anything" usually includes the BEST PARTS and BEST FINISHES and BEST ACCESSORIES available.

When building a "custom" rifle (very relative of course), I've never known anyone who wanted to build a mediocre rifle with mediocre parts and craftsmanship.