I have seen a couple custom guns for sale with Flaig's barrels, and was wondering if anyone had any information on them.

What was the qality of their work?

Did they build their own barrels or use a different company?

Any information would be great.

Thanks

I'm certainly no expert, but, my understanding is that they used exclusively Douglas barrels.

I own a Flaigs "ACE" 25-06 and it's very accurate. It's built on an FN Supreme action and is my go to whitetail gun.

I've seen a couple of more through the years, but, don't have any first hand knowlege of those.

Rojelio

PS: Flaig's was a gunshop in Pennsylvania.

+1
When I asked Charley Flaig what barrels he used for sporters he made, he answered that he used Douglas barrels. That was in the late 1960's

I remember seeing Flaig's advertisements from years ago. On some of their rifles and barreled actions, they did claim to use Douglas barrels.

I don't know if they used other than Douglas barrels on some of their other actions and rifles or not.

Seems like I remember they sold complete FN Mauser rifles, made in Belgium, and these might have had factory barrels on them. What factory, I don't know. Maybe FN. I think some of their barreled actions came from Belgium already barreled, also.

Flaig's was about 2mi from where I used to live. Going in there was like stepping back in time to what a good 1940s German gun shop must have looked like. Dark carved wood every where. Lots of German stuff that I wish I would have had the sense and money to buy back then. Had a lot of good stuff that would be hard to find in one place today. 98's were all over the place for a song. If they liked you they would bring out drillings and other great stuff with heavy German engraving and carving. Cool place.


Battue

Flaigs used to supply ribbed barrels of German manufacture. If memory serves they advertised them as 'Bohler Stahl' barrels. I bought several from them and they were uniformly good. Magnificent store in the evergreens on the side of the hill as I remember. Made you think of the black forrest even if you had never heard of it. Had a good catalog and I still have some wood working chisels I bought from them in the late 50's. Along with The Original Sight Exchange they were my prime suppliers in the 50's for gunsmith stuff.

I had A Flaigs 6MM Rem. built on an FN action with a Fajen roll over stock some yrs. back. I sold this rifle and have regretted it every day since. It was equipped with A Douglas bbl. and it accounted for the demise of many generations of woodchucks. If the price is OK I would not hesitate to buy another. Good luck!

I have seen a few FN Mausers with Flaig barrels in 250-3000
caliber over the years, the next one I bump into hopefully
will come home with me.

Pro-Nazi stinker. Flaig kept a bust of Adolph in his house.

In 1972, my youngest son and I went to Flaig's on a Saturday morning for a look-see at guns. Charley Flaig was just finishing breakfast, and saw us parking outside. When my son and I entered the store, Charley was there to welcome us. He asked if we would like to tour his living quarters, which were behind the store in the same building. So, I accepted, and got the cooks tour, including seeing Herman Goehring's presonal Drilling, along with a lot of other Drillings owned by high ranking Nazi's. As we toured the house, we turned a corner in the hallway and, there was the bust of Adolph Hitler. Being an Army guy, I had some STRONG thoughts about that which I won't elaborate upon here.

Don

The man may have had deep roots in the past, but as far as I know lived his life "on the hill" as good or better than most.

Many on the "fire" still wave the confederate flag and talk about southern leaders with respect. The majority of us don't criticize them for that connection.

Many here still grab those old 98s used in the war and praise their quality.

I don't think Mr. Flaigs past history or memories are to much to get excited about. We all have a past and its not always good.

Battue

Battue, you insult the Confederates by mentioning them in the same breath with Nazis.

Seems like most understood what I meant. In fact so far your the only one that didn't.


Battue

Whoa, I had no idea about that connection and Flaig.

Here in Ohio I see occasionally a flaig. Some extraordinary pieces, a sako vixen with tapered ocotogon, full rib, rear leaf, hooded front ivory, very nice.
AND the last one I saw was a converted Mauser 98 12 GAUGE! Yup, bolt gun 98 with honking pipe threaded on the front. I was torn between how hideous it was inspite of the workman ship and how cool it was. Some young guy had it. Nice piece of eastern black on it-shoulda taken a photo.
CWG

Those 12ga mausers are about the most unsafe thing you can shoot.

while going thru a 1950 American Rifleman, the Flaig's ad shows they used Ackley-Johnson barrels on their commercial and surplus actions. They only mention "Ace" gunstocks . No mention of Douglas yet. I remember the 60's ads with Douglas bbls.
Bob

That's good info on the Ackley-Johnson barrels in the 1950 timeframe. I wasn't aware of that.

We used to be neighbors battue. I was just a few miles further north, but right there in the same area.



I remember them opening old wooden drawers full of 98 (and others) actions. Yep, they just kept them in drawers.



Absolutely.

I remember spending days there with my dad as a little kid. He had one of their gunsmiths build him a beautiful M98 on the side. I had no idea of the unique situation I was experiencing as a kid. I'd sure love to be able to live it again now.....

Does anyone know if Flaig's Barrels is still in existence and/or operating under another name?

In what town was Flaig's Barrels located?

I own my dad's custom deer rifle with a Flaig Ace barrel on a Savage 110L action (.243 Winchester) and custom stock. It was built in the mid-60's and as I recall it was a real tack-driver with his handloads. I only shot it once, around 1972, and since I've inherited it it's been display-only in the gun cabinet since I'm right-handed. I've always wondered about the origin of the barrel since I've had the rifle, and this thread has answered that, thanks to all who posted!!

if memory serves Flaigs used Douglas barrels

Flaigs did use Douglas and they are out of business. Have been for some years now.

There never WAS a "Flaigs's barrels" that ever exsited as company..

If you would read this thread, you would see it was FLAIG'S GUNSHOP..

Millvale, PA.
North of Pittsburgh, PA.
Flaig did some awesome gunsmithing, but did not make any barrels.
Charley would let me scrounge through his stockmaker's scrap barrel for knife handle size pieces, and would chatge me $1 for a whole hand full of pieces.

It sat up on a little pine covered knob of a hill, in an area that was actually quite built up. It was like it's own little oasis or sanctuary.

Quite a place....

Yep.
Charley owned 11 acres of down town Millvale, and it was the best 11 acres too, with that hill he had his shop and store on. Magnificent location.
One day I wnet there in winter, and the switchback you had to go up to get to the lodge was covered with ice, and there was no way I could make it up. So, I went to a local restaurant and drank coffee till the sun melted the ice, then went up...

Since this old thread has been resurrected, I'll take the opportunity to ask:

Savage2005-
How do you know this to be true?
Thanks.
--Bob

The wife's cousin has a 243win in a mauser action with a flaggs barrel on it.If I remember right it cost him 14.00 way back when.
It does shoot like a house afire.

Flaigs made some of the finest guns in the world bar non. They also handled guns from Austria, and Germany. They had 2 stock makers, a machinest, and several beginning gunsmiths putting actions on barrels,cleaning the floor,ect.
While I was there, I heard a story of John Unertyl coming into the shop. They had just finished mounting a Unertyl scope on a custom rifle, and had to dissemble the scope so the rings could be soldered on. Well the scope fogged, and the owner came back to Unertyl frothing at the mouth about the junk he was selling. He promptly explained what had happened, and went to Flaig. He told Flaig and I Quote. "I don't mess with your f-----g rifles, so don't mess with my f-----g scopes" Then he stormed out.
I heard this while I was apprenticing at Flaigs right before they closed.
I own one Flaig rifle. A 25-06 that was in a fire. The springs were all collapsed and the finish was burned off. But the rifling was nice, and the chamber was clean. So it was off to the test bench, to fire some proof loads in it. After 10 oiled cartridges, no change in heasdspace, no problems what so ever. So a stock was put on it, and a scope was mounted. 5 shots in a half inch. I gave it to my son, after it was refinished, and blued a brilliant blue. It is sitting in the room with me as I type this.

Gunsmith, I'm glad you wrote this. I have been looking at a Flaig 270 built on a Mauser action for some time now. I haven't moved on it because it's priced at the top of its value range and it has a thumbhole stock - which would have to go. It is in beautiful condition and, as you would expect, beautifully built. I may have to see how flexible the owner is on pricing.

Good post!! Thanks for the info.
Do you know what happened to all of the old drillings Charley had in the small room behind the store that originally belonged to the high ranking Natzi's of WW II era? Bill Knabel was running the store after Charley died, so he might know?
Re, John Unertl: My Brother in law knew John personally,. and said the John had the foulest mouth of any guy he ever knew.
But, 10 years ago, I bought a Unertl 1 1/2", 24x Target scope based on info that Freda Shaw provided. When Unertl moved to Mars, PA, Freda Shaw worked as their office manager, and served as their point of contact for all business transactions. Freda and her husband owned the building that Unertl was located in. When I talked to her about buying an older Unertl, she gave me a lead of a guy in PGH who was selling off his Unertl scope collection. I called him, and worked out a deal for the scope I bought from him. It was made the same year I graduated from High School, 1952.
I've often thought about those old drillings Charley had, and wondered what ever happend to them. Those guns were priceless.

They all went at auction. I was there and saw everything go. I own the gun cabinet that was in the front of the store area. Big plate glass and all. Holds 20 guns at a time. Has to be bolted to the wall, or when you open the doors, it falls over.
I saw his Car, statues,funiture and all go at the auction. His Daughter had no feelings for anything but money. That and the rich Greek she was married to.

Flaig's used Boller (spelling) barrels as well as Douglas barrels. The Douglas were the Ace.

Not always an Ace, I have a Flaig custom rifle from 1970, It's a left hand Savage 110 Magnum Action, with a "Douglas Premium" barrel Cal. 338 WIN Mag, manufacture date 7/70, the action is a 1970 aswell, it also has the custom Flaig monte carlo stock with raised cheek piece left handed with 20 lpi hand checkering in looks to be Turkish Walnut. I have also read that there were ladies that worked in his shop and did the detail work on the stocks, I must admit it's some incredible detail work. It also came with Redfield bases.
It is unfired and as new from 40 years ago, it's a safe queen but I pull it out just to admire how beautiful it really is on occasion and give a Mobil 1 and sheeps wool wipe down for posterity. I have no idea of the value of mine either, but I would assume upwards of 1k would be close.

Yes I have seen Flaig's marked Flaig's Douglas Premium. Not much room for error when their marked like that!

Millvale, Pa. Ross Township!

No one should be criticized for displaying or waving the confederate flag.

Why is it, battue, that you think I should be criticized for displaying the confederate flag?

If you wouldn't cut just two sentences, out of context, and actually read the whole thing, along with what brought it up, I think you'd see that battue was actually doing the opposite of what you accuse him of...

To begin, I did read the whole thread. Next, the two sentences battue posted that I cut out were the ones I have an issue with. I'm not accusing him of directly criticizing those of us who display the confederate flag; he says quite clearly that people who display the confederate flag are not criticized, they're given a pass (as if we needed one). What I have issue with is he is drawing a parallel between the bust of Hitler as a representation of Nazism in the Flaig shop and people who fly, or otherwise display the confederate flag.

Just came home from a shoot to this shiit.

Read into it what you want. Then kiss my Yankee azz.

Addition: More than a few friends were there from South of the Mason Dixon line and fine company they were.

Originally Posted By: gunsmith
Flaigs made some of the finest guns in the world bar non. They also handled guns from Austria, and Germany. They had 2 stock makers, a machinest, and several beginning gunsmiths putting actions on barrels,cleaning the floor,ect.
While I was there, I heard a story of John Unertyl coming into the shop. They had just finished mounting a Unertyl scope on a custom rifle, and had to dissemble the scope so the rings could be soldered on. Well the scope fogged, and the owner came back to Unertyl frothing at the mouth about the junk he was selling. He promptly explained what had happened, and went to Flaig. He told Flaig and I Quote. "I don't mess with your f-----g rifles, so don't mess with my f-----g scopes" Then he stormed out.
I heard this while I was apprenticing at Flaigs right before they closed.
I own one Flaig rifle. A 25-06 that was in a fire. The springs were all collapsed and the finish was burned off. But the rifling was nice, and the chamber was clean. So it was off to the test bench, to fire some proof loads in it. After 10 oiled cartridges, no change in heasdspace, no problems what so ever. So a stock was put on it, and a scope was mounted. 5 shots in a half inch. I gave it to my son, after it was refinished, and blued a brilliant blue. It is sitting in the room with me as I type this.



I worked at Flaigs in the store for a short time in the early '80's. At that time they had one stockmaker ( Nelson ), one barrel fitter/metal ( Kenny ) one guy that did the blueing ( Raymond ) and one guy the came in to pick up stocks to be checkered at his own shop ( Gene). At that time the Ferlach guns were long gone from the shop. Bill had a personal collection of the guns that the old man had given him throughout the years as Christmas gifts, bonuses, etc. One day he ( Bill ) had a collector friend come in and sold the lot of them for what at the time I thought was giving them away. At that time there were no Ferlachs hiding in the back room that I was aware of, but I do rememeber the guns from being in the store almost every Saturday buying stock blanks, barrels and what not over the years before I worked there. It's pretty easy to tell the Douglas barrels from the Bohler ones because of contour differences. They did have quite an assortment of old goodies hiding in the basement when I worked there. If any Ferlach guns went at auction when they closed they may have been personal guns from the family. I believe Bill passesd away some years ago.

Gene Temple.

Flaig's built a beautiful FN 98 in 7mm Rem Mag for my dad, and Gene carved a beautiful stock for it.

I remember going with my dad to Gene's house in Lawrenceville, watching him work.

Sure wish I could relive those days....

I live about an hour north of Pittsburgh and at a small local gun show two weeks ago, I came across a Flaig's 7 X 57 that a guy had for sale. I didn't necessarily go with the idea of buying something, but it was in great condition and I had been looking for a 7 X 57. I have to admit that I was smitten.

I brought it home, changed the scope and have been shooting it off the bench. I would like to find a 120 grain bullet that it will shoot well.

I didn't take anything apart and the only visible markings on the barrel are "Flaig's 7 X 57. It is a VZ33 Mauser action.

Can anyone tell me how I can tell the brand of the barrel?

Thanks. donsm70

don, just a guess, but that barrel was probably made before the super long bullets became popular and thus the twist might not be as tight as many prefer today... I am just guessing but try some of the shorter bullets...

'99,

Thanks for the info. I plan to get some Nosler 120 Accubonds and Hornady 120s and see what happens.

I have a 280 Rem that shoots 140 gr TTSX's about as well as I can. (Or better)

Thanks again. Don

Spoken like a true fan of the War of Northern Aggression.

That was so weak I'm surprised you posted it. Then again your imagination is definitely fertile.

Anyway:

What you want to make out of my original post is a figment of that imagination.

If Charley Flaig had memories, personal experience, family or friends who had fought for Germany means little to me. I understand his attachment to his homeland. It's the person he was at the time that had importance. He did not hide his feelings. If the Government had anything on him he would have been gone. Especially in the 60's and 70's.

The same with any who have attachment to the Southern Cause of the Civil War. It is all understandable, and any who think it should or can be erased is living in a world of dreams.

The one major difference is that Charley Flaig had firsthand experience. He lived it. Those of the South today don't have the same connection. They only get what is passed down word of mouth or written history. Major point, but it doesn't change the fact that I understand and acknowledge living history and how it becomes a part of an individual�s life.

What you missed is that I was referring to individuals, which included the right for those of the South who take pride in the Confederate flag: To display it in a respectful manner. Not a cause or making any reference to equating Naziism with the Civil War and those who still find pride in the Confederate flag.

You wanting to wave the Confederate flag for some imagined offense means little to me, because there was none: Either explicit or implied.

The 7x57s have always pretty much had the same twist rates for the last 100 years-all made to stabilize the military 173d RN slugs. Hard to get a bullet much longer than that.

Your own words impeach your latter posts.

Try living in the real world. You're spinning and bold lettering will not slow you down. It's not even funny.

Notice the words: "The man may have had deep roots in the past" Now don't conveniently overlook the word may.

Notice the words: "The majority of us don't criticize them" Us meaning, including me. Do I have to rub you forehead and to make sure you understand that.

Notice the words: "We all have a past and its not always good."

Well at least I realize mine isn't. So I screwed up there for including others.

Addition: Keep pissing up that rope you are hanging on to. I'm done.

Why did you even bring the confederate flag into a discussion that was centered around a man that MAY have been a faithful Nazi Party member when he was in the fatherland? The bust of Hitler pushed it past MAY have been to WAS for me.

Precisely; what about displaying or waiving the confederate flag do you feel would warrant recriminations from others? It doesn�t matter that you don�t criticize people that display or waive the confederate flag; just by publishing that, you infer there�s something there to criticize. Do I need to rub THAT into your forehead?

Headache on the way!!!

The Confederates ran a concentration camp called Andersonville (read the book) that killed many POWs The German prison camps had a much lower death (Deaths per 1000 among those who signed the Geneva Conventions) rate than the Confederates at Andersonville or our current buddies the Japs.
We hung The Confederate commander, lots of Japs and a few Germans.

As one German historian said: "Had Hitler dropped dead in 1938, he would be considered one of the major successful leaders of the 20th Century."
He pulled his country out of the depression w/o firing a shot. FDR needed WW II to get us out.

War is Hell and a civil war is the worst of wars.

The north ran one near the Chicago stock yards that specialized in inhumane conditions and wholesale deaths of Confederate POWs.

Hitler exterminated 6,000,000+ non-combatant Jews. His clearly stated goal was to kill every last Jew on the planet.

Where�s the parallel?

That so?

From where?

OK, one more time:

First: You want to intermingle the usage of may and was, I can't do anything about it. I don't: They mean two different things.

Second: I don't think others should criticize those who respectfully display the Confederate flag. How my not criticizing doing so-or in your words-"It doesn�t matter that you don�t criticize people that display or waive the confederate flag; just by publishing that, you infer there�s something there to criticize."-doesn't infer anything other than I believe that those with a strong Southern foundation, have the right to honor their heroes who sacrificed so much in a countryside destroyed and lives lost. Again I can't do all that much with regards to how others think on such a controversial topic, except try to give them an understanding of roots, for lack of a better term. You either have it or you don't.

I had ancestors who fought for the Union. I often think of what they did and saw. My Grandmother told the story that was passed down to her of one of them who survived Gettysburg. Supposedly a letter finally reached home months after the battle. It contained two words: "Still alive." True or not, I don't know.

I have the utmost respect for those who are willing to keep the Southern tradition of the time remembered. I wish I would see more of that here in the North. When the mood strikes-or I'm close and have time I visit a Civil War battlefield that I can get to. I normally find a place and just sit and listen. They still have much to tell us. I don't think about who kicked whose butt that day. I do think of the men, women and children on both sides of the line.

I also refuse to have others twist the meaning of my words on that particular subject.

jim62,

Do you happen to know what that twist rate is?

Thanks, Don

Well, it should be either 1-9" or 1-10" My guess would be 1-9". Even 1-10" still will stabilize 120g-150g grain slugs just fine. Whether the barrel groups light bullets better, all bets are off. Twist rate is no hard predictor of that.

You darn sure won't have any 120g-150g slugs keyholing, that's for sure.

One other thing to mention that is a bit of a "wildcard" with 7x57s is the throating. Some commercial rifles have the longer throats made for those 173g Military style slugs. They can be a challenge to get the shorter bullets out near the lands.

Keyboard bravado. Gungho. Adam

Are you still pizzed that we kicked your azz?

Keep it up and we'll come down there and do it again...

Just chiming in on the slight hijack here. I would agree with that statement about twist pertaining to the 7X57 Mausers made for miltary purposes - would not guess the same twist is uniform for commercial 7X57 rifles made since 1950 or so.

One thing is for certain, an old Model 93 and Chilean Model 95, and a later model (after 1900) that sit here, all in 7x57 with the stepped miltary barrels, are very accurate with bullets from 130 grains up to 175. Another testament that Mauser and his guys really knew what they were doing, and so long ago.

These three Mausers are unchanged with regard to the rifle itself (yes, turned bolts, nice stocks, drilled for scope, etc.) and as 100 year old miltary rifles seem amazing in their effectiveness. I would not dare rebarrel any of them.

As for 120 grain bullets in .284, they look quite short. However, some 120 grain SP made by Hornady (box is marked "Single Shot Pistol") shoot exceedingly well in the Model 95 and OK in the other two.

Don't think so. Texas alone could take the lot of ya.

Thanks for the "Flaig's" replies.

donsm70

Isn't Bohler Stahl just a steel maker and not a barrel maker?
Butch

Maybe, some sources say they also made barrels for early SIG rifles.

More info:
http://www.edelstahl-schweiz.ch/

Current Flaigs ad- http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=10078

Thanks Mike, I'm no expert because I've never had the pleasure of seeing his shop in the 60's. I did read about a chap whose Mom did work at his (Charlie's) shop along with another lady that did do custom checkering at the shop around the time frame my rifle was made (60's/70's, I've not heard of a gentleman named Gene who checkered in the 80's at his own shop (10yrs.later) before, till this thread continued. It is quite interesting investigating some of the stories and first hand experiences the locals of Millvale had with Flaig, for the most part a very good symbiosis. It does seem almost criminal his whole life's work and prized possesions were sold at auction for a pittance. Looking thru threads from around the web, he had quite a following back in the day, it would seem a shame to let his craft and workmanship fade away as so many of our craftsmen have without thier just due. His legacy should continue of outfitting sportsmen/hunters with a very nice custom weapon for a reasonable price, maybe he was a little too ahead of his time. Sorry for the rant...Dan

someone ought to give serious consideration to making an offer on this one 375H&H... it needs a little work to not look so date and over done but could really be a spectacularly beautiful gun and likely a good investment...

http://www.mwreynolds.com/HTML/rifleFlaigs375HH.html

I'm thinking $3500 is a little high.

I hate to bring up an old post, especially one so filled with such heavy sentiments towards Americans and Nazis, but you guys seem like knowledgeable people, and I'd like to throw this question your way. I have my hands on a "Flaig Ace" 338 win mag with a Leupold 4x scope on it, it is bolt action has a nice leather strap and a very pretty stock I was wondering if there is more behind the gun than I know and it's approximate value. Thank you all so much in advance.

Also what is the best way to sell it, I have a feeling the pawn shops are trying to rip me off pretty heavily, and they cannot be mailed, right?