Why not do a 284 Win. over a 7mm-08 if building a short action custom rifle?

I have played with both, and .284 offers maybe 100-150 fps advantage. 7-08 is less demanding to load for in terms of OAL and 2.8" magazine box. Feeding is probably easier in a 7-08. Brass and factory loads easier to come by in 7-08.

.284 is much more a loony's cartridge.

A few extra fps don't change what one can do with a 7mm, so I might as well factor in cost, logistics and the ability to push another round in the belly.

I've had both. The 7-08 will not touch the 284, all things equal.


Do you lay in bed at night wondering what questions to ask the following day?

I love the .284 Win, but in a 2.800 mag well like the 700 SA, my pic is the 7-08AI. In a 3.00 mag well, like a NULA, .284 gets my nod.

If I was going to build a short action 7, it would definately be a 284. I don't think I could ever be happy with the speeds a 7/08 would give me but in all reality if I ever build a 7mm anything it will probably be a 7STW or RUM so my thoughts might be a bit skewered.

2900-2960 fps w/139-140s in factory 7/08s w/chopped 21" bbls.

If I needed more in a SA rifle w/my preferred hunting length bbl (22-23 max), I'd go to the 7 WSM, but the 284 in a 24-26" is in it's own right also a fine round, esp. using 160-162s or heavier IMHO.

For deer thru elk to 400 yds, I'd be very happy w/an accurate 7/08 loaded with good bullets, and not choose any 7mm larger, but that is just me.

That said, there are no flies on a 284, just less brass and ammo options and perhaps one less in the mag, and to some folks those things matter.

I would not build another 284 in Rem SA. Built one on a LH Rem 700 SA. IMHO the 7-08 is better suited to a 2.8" OAL. If you had a 3.1 OAL like the MRC SA or somthing similar it would be a better fit.

I chose a 7mm-08AI in a Remington 700 short action ... had the smith chamber it with a short throat and a tight no-turn neck and it feeds perfectly as it did when it was the SAAMI parent, and I get an easy 3150fps out of it w/ the 120g bullets ...

FWIW, I went with the AI version mainly for the case life and lack of having to trim cases...

If I want(ed) more than what the 7mm-08AI offers, I'd opt for a 7WSM ...

The 7 WSM or the 7 SAUM would give you room for play more so than the others you cited. I think the SAUM would be a perfect short action cartridge. It equals the 280 AI and is easy to get along with.

284 Win sure seems that it would make the most of a SA, non-magnum bolt face. Could always load it down to 7-08AI speeds if you found it too fast. Is it NULA that loves this round so much? May be one of the other FlyWeight builders that is Ga-Ga over it.
Anyway, get one.

I have both calibers and have used them extensively, I count on 2850fps w/ 140 Barnes TSX out of my model 7, I have custom model 7 7mm-08AI that runs around 2950 fps with 140 TSX and a 21" tube and 3200 fps w/120 TTSX. My Brno 22 with a 22" tube in .284 and a long throat spit 140TSX out at 3187fps with RL17. Also my 26" 7mm Weatherby runs 3300fps with 150g TTSX. I am in the process of converting the 4 guns to 2 and the 284 will be one of them that survives the downsizing. Actually have a NULA 24 on order in 284 from Melvin, this will be my go to gun if she shoots anything like his past builds. Anyhow if you like the 284 I have rechambered many 7mm-08s' and gained performance that I was happy with. Used Wyatt boxes and extended the OAL of the cartridge. Actually extended factory 700 SA's to 3.2" mag box. The action looks like a lengthened model 7 when finished. If you do not want to go through the trouble then the factory 7mm-08 is a great number as is. Hell as long as there is a 7mm in the name somewhere you can't go too far wrong!

7mm-08AI


7mm Weatherby

What are you guys loading your 284's to for OAL?

I've loaded for the 284 but all my reloading gear and note books are packed up right now for home reno's...


reason I ask is, I have a Ruger M77 tang safety in 30-06 and a Douglas 7mm blank....can't decide if I should chamber it in 280 or 284......the Ruger mag box is only 3-3/8"....not overly long for a 284 depending on throat length...I don't think I can touch the lands with the 280 and fit the box...

Rick, my short action M70 284 was about perfect. I loaded to 3.05" or so and didn't want more mag room. Might be a great way to go in the standard 77.

Won't run with a Sako 300 but it won't be bad!

Hey Rick that Ruger would make a dandy 284. The bullet below is a 140 Barnes TTSX seated so the base (straight shank portion) is a few thou above the donut in the brass.

Have both.
Love both.

Funny how those two chamberings keep popping up as "best of a lot of world's" solutions yet they're already near (or are) obsolete in factory chamberings. I love the SAUM.

With all the options out there, it sure pays to ask a lot of questions prior to jumping in head first on a build.

;-)

Remember, no one ever marries a bitch or a bastard but they all divorce one.

thanks Mitch,......that's exactly what I was thinking...wonder where a 140 and 160 Accubond would sit with the base of the bullet at the base of the neck...?..probably pretty close to the TTSX you pictured....

this Ruger might be a better deal in 284 than 280....and I might have time over the holidays to get it done....

Rick, you could save some time and buy this 7 saum at EPPS...its a steal!

http://www.ellwoodepps.com/used_rifle_page_bolt2.asp

The 284 is in effect a 280 Remington, a 7mm-06, it is simply more powerful than a 7-08 under any circumstances..What you need to determine is do you want or need the added power? Both are nice cartridges. I suppose the 7-08 has less recoil, but I can't tell any differnce there, but I also shoot more and a lot bigger bores, and more so than the average shooter, so recoil is a non issue until you get to say a 458 Lott or .470.

I think that both are smoking good rounds. I am looking at building a .284 on a Winchester SA.

Lightweight Rifles Inc. Strata model on a 700 SA action with a 2.8" magazine in .284. Shoots the 140-gr TTSX with R17 @ 3100 fps at under a half inch for a trio. Tally R & B with a Leup VX III 2.5-8x

It is what it is which is very good.

Nice piece!!

I too, and you're right.



You can easily add a Wyatts box to the 700 and seat bullets out to 2.880. Plenty of length for even the longest 7mm bullets.



284 win brass is just as easy to find as 7mm08.

the 7mm WSM is king of the short action 7s

but there ain't much the 7mm-08 won't do.

It just won't do what a 284 can do.

In a short action.

Su35, last I checked 284 brass is only mfg. by WW, stamped 7/08 is mfg. by WW/RP/FC - via ammo, Norma, and Nosler, plus one can always use 308, 243, 260, etc. brass to reform and it's very plentiful. If WW brass is very plentiful in 284, I suppose one would be fixed up, but the SAUM's seems to be fading from my vantage point in terms of guns, ammo, brass, etc.

Toad, nicely said

I'm with Cliff on this one. there not much more needed for thin skinned game like deer and elk than a 7-08 loaded with the right bullets. I would not feel undergunned in the sligtest.
In my opinion too many peopel have magnumitis when its really not necessary.

ML

65BR,

There has never been a day in the past 5 years that I could
not buy 284 Win brass. You only need one brand.
Day in, day out, it's a phone call away.



There's nothing magnum about the 284. It simply sends bullets down range at just about 280R speed.

To say the 284 has nothing over the 708, you might as well say the same thing about the 280.
What I used to do with a 280 in a long action I now do
with the 284 in a short action.

And, whatever the 7mm WSM does better than the 284, the 284 does better than a 708.




Going 284 really eliminates the need of going 708 AI.
It has a 35 degree should and another 125 to 150 fps over the AI 708.

To each his own, I know what the 284 case will do and I utilize it's more horse power in a short action .473 bolt face.

SU, Nice project there. No flies on the 284, fine round, and I agree 100%, if you can get one good brass, you are G-T-G.

You make a good point of 284 vs. AI/708 as I would imagine they would feed similarly if not more often consistently dependable in the 284 assuming the action was designed to accomadate it.

I am not 'anti-284' by any means. I just like the performance per recoil/blast proposition and abundant ammo and brass choices are a nicety.

What action are you building above and what can you tell me about feeding. I hear some actions, i.e. perhaps Sako L579 have to be opened up a little in the feed rails to smoothly feed well, but I have no experience to be honest w/284. I do believe it is a VERY efficient effective 7mm esp. in a longer bbl w/high BC bullets as is the WSM.

To me to 'AI' vs. std. 7/08 is a simple decision, as I cannot see enough performance for the hassle, but OTOH if one needs a noticeable improvement of ballistics in the field, a 284/WSM will give it w/proper loads.

Choosing how much powder one needs behind a bullet, i.e. what case to use, is in reality a function of just how far one wants/needs to shoot. PBR is close I am sure to 400 yds. As one stretches out further no doubt one can benefit more so as the range grows.

I truly believe the 284 case is best utilized in 'OEM' form, aka 7mm, or in say a 338 bore. In the 6.5, it does a great job ballistically, but it's bbl life is hampered. A 284 w/good bullets should do very well against a like 6.5/284 IMHO.

Nice photo as well of the brass and Bergers

Merry Christmas guys! ....and Gals!

Thank you,

The action is a FN SPR 70. Manners MCS-T stock.

I've never had a feeding issue with the 284 case in either win or rem. They just function perfectly.

I just completed this 6.5-284.

Rem 700 Ti with a Wyatts box I can seat bullets out to 2.880 if I want to. I load 140 VLD's no problem. As far as throat life, From my experience, if you don't go F-class with it you'll be just fine for a hunting rifle.
This 6.5 wears a 25" #1 barrel. It's the same OAL length as a 24" 270.
I get 200 fps mv over my 260.

Dang, if I didn't still have women on my mind I'd be gettin a Woodie LOL - NICE Rifle Sir!

Great stuff SU35, thanks for that, always nice when my Neurons are Stimulated! That's a Looker for sure and functional.

You look set for about 1,500 victims.....deer, etc.

BTW, whose BBL - the No. 1?

In my mind another thing worth looking at is velocity/ grain of powder. Or how much powder your using to get the same velocity. Its all about effiency

ML

I have been considering a new .270, 7-08 or .284 and was recently speaking to a rifle builder, well known for his .284s, and he discouraged me from the .284 because of poor brass quality.

Any truth to this?

Is he perhaps not wanting to build one for another reason? Just asking. Haven't noticed brass as an issue at all.

I have had 7-08's and one 284 plus a few wilcats on the 284 case. If it was me I wouldn't mess with the 284. I wouldn't hesitate picking one up if I found a screaming deal on it, but at this point would go with something else if building it myself.
If you need more than the 7-08 in a factory round I would probably run a 7 saum. Holds just as many down as a 284 in the ones I have used and as much more performance as the 284 compared to the 7-08. The wsm has a bit more speed but the saum seems to feed a bit smoother in the guns I have used.
If you want to run the wyats mag box to extend OAL on the 284, You can do the same and run a 7x57 AI and pick up nearly the case capacity of the 284 and still fit 4 down. Mine feeds great with no rail work.

The guy who stuck the parts together for my 284 wouldn't do a 7 SAUM or a WSM. The 7SAUM was my first choice but actually now that I have the 284 and have shot it, it's enough in a 6 lb package for what I'll do with it.

The short maggies? He said he couldn't get them to feed well and had tried long enough.

What is the advantage of the 284 vs. the 7mm-08?

Around 200 fps in velocity?

If so, what value does 200 fps of additional velocity add?

Since I hardly ever shoot anything over 300 yards, except for pdogs and the occassional coyote, 200 fps would be meaningless to me, from a practical POV. For guys who, on a regular basis, shoot things at greater distances, every fps of additional velocity may be very meaningful. But not for shooting game within 300 yards.

Jeff

I've loaded well over 10K of Winchester/Olin 284 cases in the 284 and 6 284 based wildcat cartridges and have never had a single problem with the brass. I believe that Winchester/Olin recognizes that a significant % of their 284 brass will be wildcatted, often at max-plus pressure, so they make an extra effort to insure that it is made to the highest quality specs.

Jeff

When I can find 500 pc lots I buy 284 Win brass. Use it for 284 and 6.5x284 (and previously 6mmx284). I do sort them by weight for batchs, but have personally never had a brass problem.
JMHO
Tim

I own a 7mm-08 Rem M7 from the Remington Custom Shop. It is my Whitetail rifle. Its pet load is a 130 bullet at 3000 fps.
I own an ULA in .284 Win. It is my Mountain rifle. Its pet load is a 140 gr bullet at 3000 fps.
Both are <MOA guns. Both are a dream to carry and shoot. I will never sell either rifle.

I have shot them both and killed plenty with them both....I cant say I "PREFER" either over the other, but they sure are a great cartridge and each have their own attributes no doubt.

The 284 is definatly faster than the 7-08. My new rifle is a 7-08AI and although it doesnt quite split the difference, it makes me happy and seems to do any job I ask of it!

How fast will a .284 push a 150?

Why not consider the 7mmWSM? It has a significant power gain over both the 7mm08 and the 284, yet is still packaged in a short action cartridge.

IMO this is really a matter of what you like. I had a 7-08, have SA Ruger tang-safety M-77s in 284 and in 6.5-284, also had a NULA M-20 6.5-284. I've kept the ones I use and only sold the NULA (under duress) to finance a rifle purchase.

FWIW, I wouldn't replace the 7-08 as it gives me no advantage over the other similar cartridges on this list, but that's just my opinion. If good enough is OK, then the 7-08 (or 260, which I also shoot) is OK, but IMO the 284 and 6.5-284s can do the same thing and then some. YMMV.

Thread lift!

Im stuck between 7-08 and 284 for my next build. It will be a 90% deer rifle but i also want to be able to shoot target with 150-168 grain vld's. Bl is 24 with 9 twist. I was at 7-08 but my mag accept 3.0 OAL cartridges so i begun to look at 284. Then i realize you have to fill it up with a whole lot of more powder to get not so much more velocity than a 7-08 if bl is a 24!? Anyway it feel like the 284 will handle 168 way better than 7-08 but again it takes like 7-10grains more powder. I just dont know, 7-08 with 3.0 OAL could be good too...

I would go 7mm-08. Then magazine constraints aren't even a consideration. Make sure you put some thought into how much freebore you have the 'smith cut.

John

Given that brass is available, it's a matter of preference IMO. There is a subtle shift in the ratio of portability to power in each of these cals. Sure, the 7WSM is the powerhouse, but launching a 180 Berger at 3000 fps is going to get your attention. In the field, not a lot of difference until the longer ranges.

However, brass for the 7 WSM isn't that easy to find either. As for bullets, the 7MM is an embarrassment of riches.

In a rem 700 I think I would choose 7-08. But I have done 2 284s on Mexican mausers. This is a better choice as they just fit better..

I think either would suit me good. But .284 would mean I have to necking up norma and lapua 6,5x284 brass. 7-08 means either buying new norma brass or necking norma and lapua brass down or up. There is no 284 brass in sweden, sometimes you can se win brass but its rare and expensive in relation to quality.

7saum and 7wsm - sure nice calibers, but i cant afford the barrels. American quality barrels like Krieger I have to wait 6-10 months for them and pay twice what you pay. I need someting not so overbore. 7-08/284 is what im at now. Im still leaning to 7-08. Would not a 7-08AI with 3.0 oal and the right free bore be darn effective sending 140-168 slugs?

Easy choice.......7mm 08 and Lapua now makes brass for it!

The "argument" is similar to .308 Win vs. .30-06 where both are good but you get more performance from the bigger case. You only need to find brass once, and get enough of it then.

Lapua also makes 6.5x284 brass that's just a neck sizing away from becoming 284 cases.

I have a SAUM box and follower just in case I get the urge to have a 284 built. The 2.825" COL constraint isn't that big of a deal to me. Still more capacity than a 7-08. Had a 284 NULA and already miss it. Great cartridge.

huskyswede, look up Border barrels of Scotland , just as good as Krieger ,and closer to you, get your bbl twist rite 1/9 for sure,next is bbl Length, this is many a persons stumbling block,(longer bbl gives more speed)! look at Long range target & hunting, bbl conture & weight , what can you carry and be happy with , 708s the clear winner here & cheaper to feed , ai a round is more expensive all around, when a longer bbl does the same for less, funny how many talk speed ,then hot-rod their shorter then normal bbl lengths to get it 0r worse complain about it. My choice was 708 ,1/9 twist #3 Cm 27 inch Lilja bbl, very happy 120s 3100 +. 140s 2900 easy 168 Sierra MK @ Berger Vlds 2780 fps . " so choose wisely Grashhopper " their all expensive ,Oh and Welcome to this forum!!!

Dang. Did not see he was in Sweden!

I just can't slum a barrel longer than 22" on a hunting weight rifle.

Why not a 7x64? I would guess that's easier to find than any 284 in Europe.

I am a fan of odd balls. 280 Rem does nothing for me, but I am having a 7x64 built right now. What's the difference, 25fps?

fwiw,
I personally HATE case forming... Outside of the .223 AI I simply can't get excited with necking up, down, looking for donuts, and worst of all turning necks... I would have zero problems building a 6.5x284 to work with Lapua Brass, however, I'd pass on necking it up or down. It has enough horsepower to do fairly impressive things with 140 grain High BC 6.5mm Bullets. I see no need to try to make a .284 over again... They tried, flawed as it was, and it largely failed short of folks like Melvin Forbes who built it on a dedicated intermediate action that was long enough to take advantage of the boiler room AND there was a reason to make it work. I guess. What it would do that a .280 or a 7x64 would not I don't know, however, cartridge weirdness is a rifle looney's right... Personally I'd build a 7mm-08 using Lapua Brass and try to erode the throat on game AND practice shots. Mild pleasant round to shoot you might as well get good with it. Hell add a suppressor and really learn to use to it's potential. No fear of recoil or noise...

Regards, Matt.

If you wind up going 7mm-08, I would AI it. The benefits of AI don't justufy the expense to having it done on a factory tube, but if you've got to have anew barrel chambered anyway, it doesn't cost any more. An extra 50-75fps and no case trimming are nice pluses. Factory 7mm-08 ammunition will likely meet or exceed velocity in a tight chambered custom tube, with no perceptible difference in accuracy. That's the way it works in my 7mm-08AI....

David

7/08.

Are the talley lw low or xtra low?

Seven year old thread and the debate go's on. A sure sign that most hunting seasons are over.

Norma makes .284 brass now. It's sold exclusively through billets.com. Not sure if that accessible to you. It's also on sale now.

Thank you! Seems like a great forum. I know barrel length is king when it comes to velocity, but this rifle have to be what you call "a mountain rifle" fairly light weight. Im setting it up to 24, even if I do a 708 I think that will be enought power for me. My singlestack mag (tikka m55) is to narrow to fit 7saum and those bad boys, its even too narrow for 284 win, but I could make it fit with some adjustment, but 708 fits right away. Border barrels I thought they closed down, but I heared a rumour they was back again but with new owners.

No prob. Also, it's bullets.com not billets.

+1

Take into account how easy .308 Win brass is to find/size, and the very nominal gain in FPS, and it's a slam dunk to me.

after owning a 6/284 and 25/284 barrel life was short due to mag constraints where you simply could not chase the lands as the leade grows. Long VLD bullets can be problematic on a new rifle if you need to feed rounds from the magazine.

These were varmint rifles and got shot a lot, and usable barrel life was short due to mag box length and leade growth.

If someone believes a 284 will really do more than a 7-08 what he really needs is a 7RM, but likely hasn't shot any of them enough to know. There is more difference in performance to be found among bullet choice than the chambers behind them.