Who here, aside from Ken Howell and RickBin has built their own wildcat. I mean thought out a cartrigde, had a reamer made, dies, built the rifle, etc.

I am kicking around and idea for a nifty medium bore wildcat, and am just looking for some input. I am going to try and whip up a CAD illustration of the cartridge this week perhaps.

Tim in TN has done his own. Check with him.

Pmc

It ain't a big deal. I have a 270X39AI that is just a great kids cartridge for deer.
Butch

I have done two. One is a 7mm the other a 25cal. Fun to play with but can get expensive.Rick.

never built a total wildcat but have taken a obsolete cartridge and built a custom rifle for it. Looking at another right now and just figuring the money end of the deal. Most wildcats are based on some commercial cartridge so I look for a commercial round that I can form brass for and go from there. Dies for the count round I am working on are on the steep side but not out of my price range and it is fun to reform brass anyway.
If you have a good idea get a set of dies made and have at it. No body ever said that you have to follow the crowd I know I have wandered twice so far and who knows where it will end.

several yrs ago I designed the 17 Little Nasty

basically a 6PPC necked down to 17 cal , and the shoulder set back -.180"

I have 3 rifles chambered in the 17LN as this is one accurate SOB. PTG reamer & Lilja barrels

One rifle on a single shot Rem 40X , and the other two on Stolle actions (Kodiak , and Grizzly II)

Lapua brass, 25 gr Berger bullets , 21.5 grs of Vihtavhouri N133 powder equals 4000+ fps . My goal was to design a cartridge that equals the 17 Rem in performance, yet uses less powder and is more efficient.

coyotes don't have a prayer as this round is so much fun to shoot








16 lb groundhog shot at 328 yds

I have done two. One is (was) an attempt to get the most possible powder capacity and velocity from the 222/223 case size. It was simply a 204 Ruger necked up to 224. Worked as planned and could be useful in reboring well worn 222 and 223 barrels without having to set back etc. and might be pretty cool in AR platforms as well. Divorce and subsequent costs has kept me from really wringing this one out but I will be done with alimony pmts in 30 more months and can then run this one in a few more rifles.

Been using what I call the 340 Tyrannosaur for about 15 years now including a couple of stints in Africa. This is my design to slightly better the 340 WBY with more readily available cases or equal the velocities at lower pressures and is merely the 8mm RemMag necked up to 338. Running 338 225gr TTSX's at 3200 fps. Very deadly Elk, Bear and Plains game cartridge but since the advent of the 338RUM will probably not get really popular. OK by me, it did and does what I wanted it to do.

Wildcatting does not have to be super expensive, depends on how wild. For example, my 340 Tyrannosaur cases are made by simply running 8mm RemMag brass into a 340WBY sizing die. From then on, merely neck sizing in same die works great. The 224/204 brass is made by simply running 204 brass through a neck sizing die. If the cartridge design runs far from a standard cartridge's design parameters then special dies must be ordered. This is the case for my 30 Belted Newton, a wildcat from the early 50's. The special dies can add considerably to the cost of the project.

End of the day..... kinda expensive but, to me, rewarding to have something that is my own and different with a cool factor as well as a conversation starter at any hunting camp.

Remember to get a finish reamer for the rifle chamber and a roughing reamer for the set of dies, otherwise, full length sizing will not work too well...been there...done that. Instruct reamer maker that full length die will be made from Roughing reamer and ask his advise on dimensions.

Before you start the finished dimensions on the CAD, buy the parent brass to get the dimensions off the brass, especially the web area, othewise you may end up with a chamber too tight that may end up needing honed out or a sloppy chamber that allows a huge bulge on the brass at the web. Send 3 dummy cases to the reamer make with specific instructions.

Seat a bullet in the brass of the parent case(after necking up or down). Now measure the dimension of the neck with a bullet seated in the neck, add .002-.003 for clearance. This will keep your necks from being over worked from being fired and sized. Now you have a dimension to give to the reamer maker.

Once you build a wild cat around a specific brand of brass, other brands may be too tight or too loose. Winchester brass is tougher than Rem or Fed.

Good luck!

I am thinking about building a .45-70 or .450 Marlin based wildcat chambered in a Marlin levergun.
I don't think anyone has built exactly what I am thinking of either so it could be really cool.

I had a similar idea years ago but never had the money to act on it. A 45/70 necked to 30,338,358,375,411 or such could be pretty cool. For max case capacity you might even want to base said cartridge on the wider 348 Win or 50/90 case. Based on the 45/70 case performance should be similar to same caliber rounds based on 30/06 cases like the 35 Whelen etc.

I am figuring onusing a .45-70 and necking it to .410" with a sharpish shoulder to keep as case capacity as I can. I am thinking it should push a 400 grainer to 2100fps or so, which is right neck and neck with the Hornady loads for the 450/400 3in.
From what I gather the bullets Hornady is using in the 450/400 are also sized .410". So I could use those for heavy bullets, but also could run any of the bullets available for the .41 Rem Mag. Which gives the spectrum from sierras 170 JHP all the way to LBT's hard cast 250 and 265 grainers.

All packed in a trim little levergun......

I like it! upon further consideration the larger 348 Win or 50/90 brass idea is probably not such a good one as I am not sure the Marlin could feed these with the existing carrier etc. The 45/70 makes sense. To get the 'cat up to 450/400 3 inch speeds the pressures are gonna be a might high as the 45/70 case is quite a bit smaller than a 450/400 3 inch, but the powders we have now compared to what was available when that round was first (and Horny has to keep velocities same as 100 year old original factory loads so they will regulate in the double rifles they are trying to feed here) introduced might make it do-able. Also, the new Marlins will digest some pretty high CUP's compared to the old double guns so...... You may well be onto something here. Give it a go!

Even if its not quite up to 450/400 levels it should be fairly close. Having a medium big bore thumper like that that can shoot that variety of bullets, would be pretty cool. Even the lighter bullets like the LBT hard cast at 250 grains have a pretty good sectional density so they should penetrate well.
I imagine that the 170 grain Seirra JHP would be a real hot stepper loaded in that too. I'll be it would be viscious on 'yotes or smaller game.

Also nearly forgot Barnes makes a 180 grain XPB pistol bullet too.

I think I would rebarrel a guide gun with a 20" or 21" and still have a very compact, powerful little cannon.

several!

.17 x 204 Long Neck Improved
.20 x 47 Lapua Improved
.17 x .223 AI
.257 x 47 Lapua Improved
.20 PPC Improved -.150" short

ML

The .416 Barnes is very similar to what you propose...jim

Hunter Jim, The only reference I could find to a 416 Barnes was the 416 Barnes supreme. This one is on a full length belted 375 H&H case. Was there a rimmed 416 Barnes? Not seeing it in my books. Where did you find it? Is it a 45/70 case necked down? What do the originators claim as to performance?

I do see a large lever action cartridge based on the fatter 348 called the 400 Alaskan which, according to P.O. Ackley's book achieves the stated goal of 2100fps with a 400gr bullet. I am guessing the same bore diameter on the smaller 45/70 case would fall short of that number, but with modern ball powders, maybe not. Even if it did not quite get to 2100 with a 400 this wold only matter in Africa on all of TWO animals normally hunted. Short of that, this cartridge would totally rock and I hope you DO put this together. Love the utility and versatility. I do similar with my 358 Win and 348 AI by using pistol bullets in a few cases for small game as encountered.

Good luck with the project!

MAgnumtom, I just thought of something fun, and you gave me the idea! Might try some 125gr HP's resized slightly to fit in my 348AI. Should be able to run them at 3200 or better..... Even in my 358Win these could get to 3000 or so. Think such would put a hurt on a yodeldoggie??? Heheheheheheh.....

I've been toying with the idea of necking the 6mm Remington up to 7mm.

Steelie,
That sounds like a great one, and in a pinch you probably could even use Roberts brass...

ThomasMag,
Are you meaning something along the lines of a 35 Greevy necked up to .411/.416 ?

Then you would have a 7x57.Rick.

...and that therein is the beauty if it..!

The .416 Barnes is pretty similar, except they size it to .416 and have a somewhat tapered case.
I want to straighten the walls with 35� shoulder and size mine to .410 allowing me to use heavy bullets from the 450/400 3in and at the same time using any of the light weight bullets for the .41 Rem. Mag. as well.

Very interesting..... I still like the idea of yours and in case some one brings up the feeding issue my 348AI with straight case and sharp shoulders etc feeds terrific. IF it were me, I would shorten the neck up somewhat to give more powder capacity as well. Quite OK to have a longer bullet go into the case body somewhat when seated, you STILL have more case capacity than if you had made the neck long.

Let us know how it works out!

On one of the Realtree Monster Bucks videos about 7 or 8 years ago, a guy was using a 40 cal wildcat based on the 444 Marlin in a Marlin lever gun. Similar concept on a slightly smaller case. Sounds like a winner.

Ya think

I'm buildin my wife a .257X22-250AI....grin.

Yeah I am not sure how long to have the neck be. I have always heard you wanted a neck at least the same as the caliber. I.E. in my case its a .41 caliber so the neck should be at least .410 long.
I am visiting a far more knowledgeable friend this weekend, I will ask his advice on that.

How about that range of bullets weights in .410? All the way from the big 400 grainers made for the .450/.400 down to the 170/180 grain hollowpoints.


In thinking on it more I think I am going to build a single shot on a T/C Encore frame first, then if it proves as cool as I think I move ahead and get a levergun put together on a Marlin.

Why do that? Costs are not going to be much different, if at all and the cool factor and usefulness of a powerful but also adaptable medium bore levergun goes to zero with a break top single shot.

True enough...
My only thought was that I could pick up an encore with a .41 rem mag barrel and run my reamer to chamber it, then I would have at least something up and running with a bit less cost.



Could just chuck some more cash in the pot and get the levergun from the start I guess. Might have to starte checking the local show for a Marlin .45-70

I've always had a desire to neck a 300 H&H to 7mm and twist it for 160s.....the big 7mm H&H that H&H never made.

(already got a 244, 300, 375 and 400 H&Hs)

I have been wanting to do a 7mm big boomer. I know there are tons of factory versions to be had...but after seeing what Rick did with the 375 ruger case...a 7mm based on that thing should flat scoot. Of course 140NAB would be my boolit of choice. Should make one hell of a long range whitetail rig. And besides...cant let my buddy Tim have all the cool sounding calibers

Thomasmagnum,

PM me your phone number if you care to and I will keep on the lookout for a pre safety model 1895 Marlin 45/70 for you. I am a gunshow rat and a locally known part time buyer and seller of all things that go bang. I have had a couple of these and they are not hard to find out this way.

I guess part of my interest in your project is that a lineup of wildcats based on the 45/70 was one of my first wildcat idea's and even brought up the idea with some folks at Speer back in about 1985 or so (just friendly conversation I was and still am a nobody in the ammo world) but sadly one I never pursued so I will be most pleased to see you or anyone else get this rolling. Grand idea, IMHO.

Can anyone recommend a shop to make a reamer? I know Clymer, and PTG are probably the two best known. Anyone else?