Anybody loading for the .35 WSM (AKA .35 Sambar or .35-.300 WSM)?
Jerry/AK

I know someone else here has built one already, but try working carefully up from .358 Norma loads (not that there's a lot of that data either)

Thanks. I've already been looking at .358 Norma loads. The .35 WSM has about 95% of the case capacity of the Norma, so I plan to reduce Norma start and max loads by 5%. However, I've not yet seen any .358 Norma loads using RL17, which is what I want to try next. Since RL17 and IMR4350 are alleged to have very similar burn rates, I've loaded up a series using RL17 and the 250 Speer Hotcor, starting at 63 grains and going up in 1 grain increments to 68 grains.

Any opinions anyone, before I go to the range next week?
Jerry/AK

I have a friend who built one. I'll try and get some info for you tomorrow.

My Bansner built rifle works very well with 75 grains of RL17 and a 225-grain Trophy Bonded bullet. I use a Federal 215M primer and Winchester brass. I get 2,950 fps and excellent accuracy. I have used it on elk, antelope and whitetails all with great performance. Of course, start lower and work up as this is a max load in my rifle.

Bryce

Thanks for the info Bryce.

And Lawdwaz, I appreciate your asking your friend.

Also, I received QuickLoad projections from Toad via PM. Thanks again Toad!

Anyone else have any suggestions?
Jerry/AK

If I succeed, here's a pic of my MRC barreled action fitted into a Winchester Featherweight stock (lotta work there):
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l254/Jerry-AK/?action=view&current=100_0019.jpg&newest=1

nice looking rifle!

Thanks Toad! How did you do that?
Jerry/AK

in the full screen reply there is a toolbar right above the box you type into. it has an "enter an image" box to click on and then paste the url of your pic.

or hover the mouse over your pic in photobucket and there should be "[img/]" tags already attached to your picture that you can just copy and paste that into your reply directly.

but i have a SS M70 Classic WSM that i would love to do the .350 WSM with, but alas i've had an "unexpected intruption in disposable income" so i'll have to do without for now...

When you're ready...I have a SS .358" barrel blank.
Jerry/AK

Here's what I got....my friend started out with some VV N550, didn't get great accuracy and found it to be temperature sensitive. He has had some better results with Varget, starting with 66 grains and ending with a MAX load of 68 or 68.5 grains. Bullet used for these loads was the 225gr Accubond. I'm sure I don't need to say it but....use caution!

My 35-300 WSM is a Ruger 77 Mk II. Its favorite light bullet load is 73.4 gr of Reloader 17, Barnes 200 gr TSX, Federal 215 mag primer, and Winchester brass. MV is about 2950fps and accuracy is very good. I started at 66.9 gr of powder and worked up.

I am running 74.0 gr rl-17 with a 225 Nosler Bt using necked up 325 brass. 2835 fps. This done on a Savage long action. So I can seat the bullets out. Shoots 1/2 moa

Thanks guys!

More input is better.
Jerry/AK

Interesting wildcat. That originated in Australia didn't it? Named after the Sambar deer? Sounds like it can do some heavy lifting but with acceptable recoil.

I've been up to 72 grains of RL 17 in the .358 Norma with 250 grain Speers for 2875 fps.

what is the difference between necking a .325 wsm up to 35 caliber and a .300 wsm necked up to 35 caliber.

FYI, "UMT" is Mr. Towsley, himself.... Figured someone would comment..

I thought it was pretty cool..

tell me about this blank.

PM SENT.

Jerry,
That powder has a "burn rate" that is too slow, for the 358-WSM.

Today, I was working with some 250 Hornady RN's (Not Regestered Nurses).
Having worked with a lot of loads and several 225's (Swift A-Frames. TSX, and Partitions), so, I had a clue as to where to start with my 250s.

I started load development in 2005 for my 358-WSM, and burned a lot of the slower powders such as 4350, 4831, and RL 15..., They are all too slow for optimum performance out of that cartridge.

I sent you some load data for the 225's that show them easily doing over 2900fps.

Check your mail box.

Shot some 225 TSXs over 65 grains of H-4895 today as well as some of those 250 grain Hornadys...

The load for the 225 TSX was one I did up in 2005 for a Moose load at possible long range.(ended up going with 64 gr. under the A-Frames)

Admittedly, it is a bit warm, and 64 grains is much perfered.
(well within an inch for 5 shots - Thank You Pac-Nor))

Anyway, I put 2 of those TSX loads over the chronograph that were slightly above 2980 fps.
Backing off a grain, things were looking much better as far as primers and bolt lift go...but was still firmly in the mid 2900's.

Working with the 250's...

Since I has such good results using a 250 Partition out of my Whelen at just under 2400 fps this last fall, I was inclined to see how they were in the 358-WSM.

I ran 5 over the chronograph today with 61 grains of H-4895.
-2659
-2658
-2661
-2677
-2651
-------
2661 avg. (all 5 clustered within an inch)

My avg from the previous load using 60 grains of powder was 49 fps behind.

I imagine that there is a sweet spot somewhere around 62 grains, which will put me in the 2700's.

358, what barrel length are you running? those are some pretty good numbers!

TOAD

My barrel is 24"
(...and I have given serious thought chopping 3" off)

It is a Pac-Nor. I was recently told here on the fire in an unrelated discussion, that the lapped and polished barrels will often give us a free 100 fps. I believe this could be part of the reason I am getting such good velocities. When I first started loading I noticed that I was a bit ahead of other 358-WSM numbers, but always attributed it to the H-4895 under those 225's.

I will say that with 250's 2800 fps is probably the realistic velocity ceiling.

ALSO, allow me to back up a step and say that every bullet and every bullet weight responds differently with different powders.
I previously stated that powders in that burn rate area which are near 4350, 4895, RL 15, and the like are too slow on the chart to give best velocities in the 358-WSM, "with 225's." I have tried them.
Again for them, H-4895 is "THE" powder.


As for the 250 grain bullets, they 'might' respond differently to RL 17. (Notice the numbers Bryce posted)

He shows 75 grains of RL 17 pushing 250 at a respectable clip. Now, I dropped 75 grains onto the scale last night and if I charge the case through a 12" drop tube it still requires me to compress the load with 250's and a 2.925" C.O.L.

Although I have not had a chance yet (maybe tomorrow I can report), I am expecting 62-63 grains of H-4895 to give me excellent accuracy and acceptable pressures. With 63 grains, I expect to be knocking on the door of 2800fps.

Personally, I would accept any 250 grain numbers in the 2700's fps. as long as I had the accuracy.

Remember - A bullet of a B.C. above .400, when zeroed at 200 yards will only show one inch differance in tradjectory at point of impact when it reaches 300 yards, when velocity is 200 fps slower/faster.

In other words, 100 fps will only allow me 1/2" flatter tradjectory at 300 yards with a 250 gr. Partition.

100 fps. give or take doesn't excite me much with bullets of this weight and caliber.

what is an eye opener, is you guys are getting the near the speeds from 250s that i can wring from 200s in my .350 RM. i also agree that 2800 from 250s would seem to be the upper limit (QL sez 71.5 gr RE15 should give 2801 fps from 23" barrel). that's a significant step up.

i gotta get one made...

Just a quick correction here for the sake of safety. The 75 grains of RL17 power was with a 225-grain TBBC bullet. It would be too much powder for the 250-grain bullets.

In my rifle RL17 was by far the best powder I tested with multiple 225-grain bullets and with the 220-grain Speer bullet. Of course I have not tested every powder, so I can�t say it�s the best on the market, only that it�s the best I tested.

I also have not worked with 250 grain bullets and this powder, so I can�t comment on that, except that I believe you are right that it�s likely a bit slow for that bullet weight.

I will note, as you did, that a good barrel helps. Mine is a Lilja and it's smooth and well made. A different barrel might find my load a bit hot.

This is a wonderful cartridge and in my Bansner built rifle has become a personal favorite very quickly.

Bryce

Bryce, what twist would you suggest for this cartridge?

1-12"?

Yup, 1:12

Bryce

Thanks Bryce,

I would have to say that your data with the RL 17 looks to be even better than what I can safely attain with the H-4895.

I found that about 2930 was my limit with the 225 Swift A-Frames using 65 grains of H-4895. It proved to be too hot for the 225 TSX as I got a very sticky bolt lift with 65 grains and had to back off a grain. That mono-metal bullet just responds differently yet will still allow me to be in the 2900's.

Tomorrow the plan is to run the some 250's with the H-4895 and just see where that puts me.

I will also try the RL 17 with both bullet weights, I like how it fills the case, great density.

I'd imagine the 338 Winchester would have a very close capacity, perhaps a hair more, to aid in your RL-17 venture.

Judging from some of the speeds and charges with like bullets.

Getting 2,800 from 250's is gonna require a slower than normal fuel, I think.
Just like RL-22 and 25 in the 338.

Running some now in a wildcat 22; so far so good.

Please post your results.

Bryce

I like to neck brass up not down I will use the brass that is closes to the caliber I am necking to. Therefore I use 325 WSM brass. I use RL-17 and the 225 Mosler BT because it gives me the loading density I like, the speed I like and the accuracey I prefer. And it is my understanding that Winchester is using rl-17 for the 325 wsm loading.

Here is what I came up with.

4/17/10
38 degrees F

358-WSM shooting 250 gr. Hornady RN over RL-17.


-Cases 325 Winchester-Trim 2.090"
-Primer Federal No. GM215M
-Hornady 250 gr. RN
-C.O.L. 2.890"
-Alliant Reloader 17

1) 67 gr. = 2571 fps
2) 68 gr. = 2615 fps
3) 69 gr. = 2673 fps
4) 70 gr. = 2721 fps
5) 71 gr. = 2768 fps
6) 72 gr. = 2803 fps


-Case head expansion just forward the extractor groove measured an increase of .0015"
-Extraction was easy, smooth, and Not sticky.
-Primers showed some flattening, but retained a radius edge and were Not cratered.


For compasison:

-Alliant Reloader 15

1) 65 gr. = 2679 fps
2) 66 gr. = 2697 fps (Max. in my gun)
3) 67 gr. = 2756 fps (slight sticking of bolt)


-Hodgdon H4895

1) 61 gr. = 2612 fps
2) 62 gr. = 2661 fps (Max. in my gun)
3) 63 gr. = 2698 fps (very sticky bolt lift)

It was more than a little windy today, so I didn't attempt to bother with group size comparisons, But I will.

This was just a pressure/velocity check for my gun ONLY... and what I learned is that my gun likes RL 17 just fine.

YMMV

.358

Who did you have do the work on yours. Did you buy a reamer or did your smith have one. What barrel are you using.

I sent Pac-Nor a Weatherby Vanguard along with my drawings for barrel conture, and throating dimentions.

A little shop near them trued the action, opened up the bolt face, adjusted the extractor.

Pac-Nor did the final fitting of barrel to action.

I played with the magazine a little, worked the feed rails, and "narrowed" the box to allow for a single stack and straight feeding from the magazine into the chamber...smooth.

If I were going to do it again, as far as barrels and smithing I go the same route. Pac-Nor is good people, and that rifle will shoot..!

358wsm,
Thanks for the detailed info. I kinda expected 2800 fps with 250's would be possible.

I too did some shooting today, .35 WSM using Speer 250 HotCors and RL17 powder (three shot averages per charge):
Grains Velocity
63 2286
64 2322
65 2394
66 2465
67 2489
68 2541
69 2604
70 2684

At 70 grains the brass appeared okay, primers flattened but still a rounded edge, bolt lift normal; doubt I can go very much higher though. I'll try another series at 70.0, 70.5, 71.0, and 71.5 next trip to the range. Overall, the data revealed that my "guess" loads were conservative, which is where I always want to be when exploring.
Jerry/AK

I should add that in my MRC action I am able to handle a C.O.A.L. of 2.98" and that's what my loads were seated to. Brass was Winchester .300 WSM brass necked up. Primers were Winchester standard large rifle.
Jerry/AK

Then I'd say you are right on track.

I almost tried some CCI Lg Rifle BR Primers today (good call).


I was looking at your rifle in the pics and trying to use the scope and the "guesstimated" length of pull in order to figure your barrel length.

Is it 22" ?


Also, I noticed that your last two loads went at in increase of 63 fps and 80 fps respectively. I started to hit diminishing returns at my 71 grain to 72 grain step.

What you are showing at 70 grains corresponds well with where I am also.

Lookin good Jery

My barrel is 23" and was provided by MRC. Remember, those velocities are averages of three-shot groups...a pretty small sample size and maybe not reliable.

By the way, the scope is a Leupold 1.75-6x.
Jerry/AK

Thanks for all the good input on ReL17 and the 350WSM. I have tried it in my 35Whelen 700Classic but as yet not in my 350WSM - but I will soon I think.

I began several years ago with the 350WSM taking my cues for loading it from what had worked well for the guys using the 358Norma for big game. I reduced their most successful loads for it and worked back up. My 350WSM has been a good conversion project. Here's my page on it with some loads fired to date - http://35cal.com/ruger77_350wsm.html

I might get it out bear hunting in a month maybe. That'd be fun if I manage it.

Regards,

Whelen B

Resurrecting this thread to see if anyone has new information to share.
Jerry/AK

No new data?

77grains of R-17 with Barnes 200grain TTSX for 3180fps worked up

Hey guys just got my rem 700 35 wsm done about to load some 225 nosler accubond anyone have some advice on best all round powder to start with! Mood take temp stable and accuracy over speed! Any info would be great! I see rl17 and maybe h4895 and possibly varget??? What about h4350? To slow to fast?? Help a brother out!! 😂

I’d bet 17 would work well, along with any of the 4350’s. I’ve had a Newton and Whelen but not a WSM but since case capacity is fairly close to the Norma I’d look for 358 Norma data and work up careful. Someone with QL should be able to help you out as well, at least for beginning data.

I dunno about starting with 358 Norma data. There's damned little Norma data out there anyway. It seems the WSM case capacity is between Whelen & the Norma. My Norma brass holds 92.4gr of H20 full to the top & some Hornady 300WInMag reformed holds 92.7. I would start with a warm Whelen load & work carefully upwards.

The 250 QL data below shows 70.6 as max for A4350 in the 35 WSM. My (newer) lots of A4350 are almost as slow as S/World 4350. I have been to 80gr with both IMR & S/World 4350. SW was disappointingly slow @2650fps while the late '80s lot of IMR showed a slight ejector mark at 78gr. @2826fps. so at least 10% more powder (possibly more) in the Norma cases than WSM for comparable velocity. It seems a warm Whelen load for your chosen powder would be a safer start & expect to burn some components working upward. I did 2 shots at each full gr, then 1/2 gr. increase over the chronograph while being aware of bolt lift etc.

I dont believe that PP2000MR is in QL yet, but is a winner for speed with accuracy in both my Whelen & my Norma with 225s. H4895 & RL15 did almost as well in both with 225s.

Here's 2 35 Sambar QL I copied from somewhere on the web. Hoping the columns stay in line... but they didn't.

Cartridge : .35/300 WSM (.35 Sambar)
Bullet : .358, 225, Nosler AccuBond 50712
Useable Case Capaci: 68.678 grain H2O = 4.459 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 63000 psi, or 434 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window. C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations. USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Fill/Load Ratio Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 108.1 71.8 2964 100.0 63000 8774 1.088

Vihtavuori N550 109.6 70.9 2909 99.1 63000 8649 1.109

Winchester 760/H414 107.0 71.6 2908 97.1 63000 8728 1.102

Hodgdon H380 103.6 67.0 2852 98.8 63000 8165 1.123

Accurate 4350 110.0 69.6 2841 98.7 57782 8416 1.156

Accurate 4064 104.9 65.0 2840 100.0 63000 7467 1.147

Accurate 2520 97.2 64.9 2837 100.0 63000 7461 1.131

Norma URP 110.0 68.9 2831 98.5 57158 8396 1.149

Norma 204 110.0 71.9 2828 94.0 60666 8424 1.122

Ramshot Hunter 110.0 71.9 2828 96.8 56877 8591 1.148

Accurate 2495 98.8 61.2 2818 100.0 63000 7165 1.154

Accurate 2460 92.7 63.2 2799 100.0 63000 7270 1.140

Cartridge : .35/300 WSM (.35 Sambar)
Bullet : .358, 250, Nosler PART SP 44801
Useable Case Capaci: 70.787 grain H2O = 4.596 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 63000 psi, or 434 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window. C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Fill/Load Ratio Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 104.3 71.4 2838 100.0 63000 8816 1.139

Ramshot Hunter 109.2 73.6 2797 99.0 63000 8978 1.149

Winchester 760/H414 103.2 71.2 2789 98.4 63000 8935 1.154

Norma URP 108.8 70.2 2783 99.8 63000 8651 1.156

Vihtavuori N550 105.7 70.4 2783 99.8 63000 8772 1.162

Accurate 4350 108.2 70.6 2782 99.8 63000 8617 1.169

Norma 204 107.6 72.5 2754 96.5 63000 8804 1.152

Hodgdon H380 100.0 66.7 2730 99.6 63000 8293 1.174

Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 110.0 69.4 2707 100.0 59486 7898 1.183

Accurate 2520 93.5 64.3 2702 100.0 63000 7490 1.187

Accurate 4064 100.7 64.3 2701 100.0 63000 7490 1.203

Alliant Reloder-19 110.0 71.8 2686 95.5 56017 8828 1.208

Accurate 2495 94.8 60.5 2675 100.0 63000 7186 1.211

IMR 4831 110.0 68.7 2665 99.3 55095 8299 1.234

Guys, I completed my load development for my .35 WSM several years ago. I settled on RL17 with either 250 gr Speers or 250 gr Nosler Partitions (for Alaska hunting). I settled on 71.0 grains for the Speers and 70.6 grains for the Partitions. Both made just under 2,800 fps. And out of my 8# rifle that is a bit of recoil.
Jerry/AK