Now it's gonna get ugly.

You have a condensed version?

Another great video.

Dink

smacks of best of the west don't it

Where do you think they learned it??

Mr. Burns,
Respectably, I have a question.

After looking at your video & having wondered the same about Best of the West; your video shows several success shots. How many times were there wounded animals not recovered that did not appear on the video? What would you say the ratio is between downed game and lost game from these LR rigs? I realize human error is a factor.

Reloader28

I could speak about The Best of the West after I left but what would be the point??

As for us if you watch the video you will see desert big horn sheep, rocky big horn sheep, and other rather hard to draw animals that no one want to wound and then lose. We really don�t take shots we are not pretty sure won�t turn out pretty well.

We really don�t try shots that would be low percentage.

I am proud to see you here. I am looking forward to your input. Free advice from people like yourself is invaluable.

thanks

Same here. I'm tickled to have access to what you are up to nowadays.

RL28,

Did you get your answer to your question sir? You asked a direct question re: how many animals were wounded correct?

Seems like a song and dance, 'We really don't shoot....really don't try...'

I think that was a side stepped PC answer.

65BR who cares how many animals were lost. It happens. I have lost three deer in my hunting career. One was shot at 199 yards (30/06 165 grain sierra), one was at 127 yards (300 ultra 180 partition) and one at 221 yards (300 ultra 180 accubond). I damn sure had enough gun and bullet in all cases but really can't tell you what happened ( I do have guesses). In all three cases the deer were shot from a rest.

I have also killed a few animals between 300 and 503 yards and never lost one.

Losing shot animals happens once in a while. Get over it.

Dink

I am curious as to why such a limited choice of calibers? I wouldn't even pick one of those calibers for longrange hunting. How about some 300 win mags,300 ultra,338 ultra?? Spending that kind of cash I can't imagine being so limited to those calibers.What kind of performance can one expect at say 300 yards? What is a custom trigger? Jewell,timney, or?? Not enough details on what a guy will get for 6 grand.

Dink, sorry I hit a nerve sir. I own up to having shot a few deer in my life that got away as well. They were in the open, not disturbed and hit with proper bullets, and I understand THINGS happen and accept it.

That said, I believe in 'Fair Balance' which is say what you get when the FDA tells a drug company to put the side effects, warnings, etc. in the labeling so the consumer knows what they might get, in addition to the benefits of the product.

Make sense? I may be wrong, but I'd bet ALOT higher percentage of game gets wounded and lost when shot at 600-1200+ yds, than from 0-500 but that's just MY guess.

Does it matter? Well obviously not much to you. But I prefer to not risk a wounded or lost animal, and don't take risks that will increase that probability, but that's just me.

I'd bet there are many on the board, whether posting or not who DO care when an animal gets wounded or lost. Hopefully more than not, strive for one shot humane harvest when hunting.

So no worries, we can agree to disagree Dink and that's ok.

Have a nice weekend sir.

Did somebody really just say that? Really??

65BR I bet alot less animals are lost long range. Think about the wind and drop just to make it to 800 yards? The guys that take those kind of shots with out knowing what they are doing are simply guessing. I would say that they will be much more likely to wound game 300 to 400 yards because the chance of them getting a bullet to them is much better.

I do care when I lose a animal because I have every intention of putting my tag on them. When it happens though I don't loose much sleep over it. It is just a animal and something will eat it.

Dink

Yes I said it. Are you going to change your mind about long range hunting if 3 out of every 100 animals shot are lost? What about 7 out of 100? How about 9 out of 100? It will not change anyones mind on long range hunting so who cares how many animals are lost its not going to change anyones mind on the subject.

Dink

Love it!

I watched the video and while I have several thoughts about it, the one that disturbed me was the grizzly at long range. If I am ever blessed to hunt them, I want to be in tight with them. In several of the other photos it seemed like it would have been fairly easy to close the distance. Different strokes for different folks.

I know this will stir a hornets nest. We are becoming shooters not hunters. If your a 1000 yards away, how many folks are you shooting over the top of who are trying to hunt. Other than that, nice shooting.

Have no opinion one way or the other with the exception of the Grizzly. Things go wrong at distance and you don't recover, the next poor soul out that way may pay for your mistake. And distance gets factored into recovery when things go wrong.

If you can do it, great. Not my way, but that means nothing.

i guess if your not a good enough hunter to get within a couple hundred yards of your game, you have to take long shots.

John Burns knows what he is doing! Use the same techniques on P. dogs and chucks.

Lead them to water, John! Some of them will drink!

Thanks for the great video!

Mr. Burns is all about shot placement, not shooting center of mass.

The campfire forum afterall has this area titled, HUNTING and SHOOTING......

They are different and everyone chooses how they define hunting.

I posted comments under the gunwriter's section, ETHICS OF LONG RANGE SHOOTING.."

No doubt J. Burns knows about long range.

Is there something on that scope that let's one dial in for:

Wind that is present and ever changing from the shooter to the target?

Game that is or may move during the shot cycle?

Uphill/Downhill angles that drastically affect POI?

Those 3 variables throw a wrench into these long range systems.

So long as one understands that, and realizes it's not just 'aim, squeeze, GUARANTEED clean kill' then they will perhaps be more effective.

3:50 into this video proves your point...not my cup of tea.
P Dogs & chucks I can understand...

He may well be...but how many of his "customers" aren't???
I can think on a few people I know who'd buy into the idea that they could pull that chit off just because they have the cash to do so...

Those same people are likely going to shoot at the running deer through brush, take the shot when all they see is an eye, and to take other low probability shots. A slob is a slob whether at short range or long.

I don't think anyone can control there customers. I have been in walmart on the friday night before deer season (dark outside) and seen alot of guys buying new deer rifles and having them bore sighted so they would be ready for the next morning. Should walmart quit selling deer rifles two weeks before season so they will be sighted in?

Dink

Valid point...those same guys would probably try shooting those same rifles at the same ranges as the Greybulls too...

Or if you're not a good enough shot you have to try and sneak closer.

It's all about practice building confidence.

MiddleMiner, re: "I can think on a few people I know who'd buy into the idea that they could pull that chit off just because they have the cash to do so...

Just think if someone like Donald Trump wanted to hang a trophy on his wall and did not even have time to hunt. Enough money, you could have someone get out in the field, set up a rifle in a High Tech gun rest, let Donald use a 'joy stick' to aim the rifle as viewed on a computer moniter and electronically fire the gun and get his trophy, never leaving his office. Then the animal could go to the taxidermist and his trophy shipped to him.

I thought that idea might appeal to a few that 'can pay' even if they cannot go.

To each their own.

Maybe my state unfortunately has a disproportionate share of hunters who lack knowledge and range time. I know I have seen it at the range, in the field, and hear about it often. I wish to improve their skills and success in clean kills. Guys I know wound and lose deer yet don't invest time learning how to shoot so when they do, often things go awry and nice animals are lost. And as others have posted, YES, sadly they do happen at close range shots as well, all the more reason in my mind LR shooting needs to be done w/thought, and range time investment.

I am confident members on the board shoot more than the average hunter, and KNOW their limits. I am confident in my ability, but also recognize variables that affect real field conditions and outcomes, so am conservative, as that is just my personal view on things.

Now, where to get started on my new business venture.... besides the high tech computer controlled rifle, maybe I should become a long range rifle instructor Seems to be a demand and need.

What really pisses me off is that a lot of supposed really learned forum members are down on their knees slurping up the drippings from a guy marketing them a bill of goods....
They should KNOW better...no longer will I accept verbatim ANY advice offer here...some of the members here I've seen drinking this kool-aid astounds me...& VERY few have offered up any rebuttal at all...oooh-ahhhhh...yeah I seen you on TV...you're a god...whoops...he's also a paid advertiser on the forum???? My bad...NO!!! IMO he's trying to mass market long range hunting to people who have no clue or desire to put in the requisite number of hours of practice required to make the shots on video that he's made....ohhh.....what???? Video editing???? How many shots did he muff???....Nah...he couldn't have muffed ANY...he's JBurns...keep drinking dipchits.... While you're at it, send him 5K for one of his "systems"...see how much you get for it from the classifieds....Sorry Rick...IMO this guy is a jackass...this will be my last response to any of his posts...
Tom

Good.

One can only hope. I'll bet you can't shoot for chit, can ya?

Burns put together a TEN HOUR video series during which he states about a thousand times that you gotta get hundreds and hundreds of quality rounds downrange to make this stuff happen. Then he explains in detail how to get it done, with a factory Remington 700.

Hmmmmm........off the med's again!!!! I can't afford to buy anything from Mr. Burns but his video's so he does not owe me anything. I have seen in the past Mr. Burns answer just about any question that is asked of him and he knows the guys asking can't afford to buy anything but his video's. There are alot of rifleman on this forum that know alot more about long range shooting than I do and I ask all the questions I can. Not one time did any of them tell me to go get [bleep]. Man there is alot to learn here if you just get over your ego or stupidness.

Dink

John Burns is not an idiot, and he is not spinning any BS at all.

With what he teaches you, a you would be surprised what a bedded, and freefloated Rem 700 can do in 243 or 7 Mag....kinda like discovering an indoor toilet when you have been using an out house all your life.

Dink
+1!

Well...here's my "read" on it FWIW which is not really much at all...I am not up for a butt kickin'and would ordinarily avoid it like the plague but here goes...

"Distance" has always been the hobgoblin of riflemen clear back to the blackpowder era;how we deal with distance and wind in our attempts to hit things.I'm sure in the foggy past as we moved from the bowling ball trajectory days of the 45-70 and 45-90 to the "flat trajectory" of that new fangled 30-30(which allowed hunters of that day to hit farther away with a dead on hold,that the BP boys were making noises about what and what wasn't "sporting"

Then came stuff like the 30/06,7x57, etc which we know allowed us to hit farther...and I remember that JOC wrote that he bought one of the first M54 270's that allowed him to hit(with the receiver sights of the day)anything he could see with the naked eye due to the flat trajectory of the 270.To an iron sight shooter, I'm sure such stuff seemed like magic.....meanwhile the BP holdovers were likely moaning and wailing about hunting going to hell in a handbasket.....

The we fast forward through the 30's, 40's and 50's to the magnum craze where everyone from Elmer Keith,JOC, Page,Weatherby,etc touted the flat shooting characteristics of various cartridges that allowed a longer point blank range so we could deal with the uncertainty of "distance".Elmer wrote of wiping Stone Sheep of a mountain side 500 yards out....and Page and O'Connor talked off snuffing elk with Les Bowman in Wyoming in high basins with Mashburns and 270's;Jobson wrote of killing a large bull moose with a 600 yard hold..

..some might have thought such shooting reckless and unsportsmanlike at the time, but these guys likely knew what they were doing with the gear they had available...in any event I don't recall them being unduly ridiculed at the time for such shots...in fact the majority of us emeulated wht they did by buying and using the same rifles and cartridges they pushed for the purpose....in any event we could see that the envelope had been pushed far beyond what the BP boys likely thought "sporting" in 1894.......

For a lot of years we used velocity to cheat gravity,and still do today to some extent,and to provide the bullet upset at distances to create sufficiently large wounds to kill effectively at distances we only dreamed about 50 years ago...and today we have LRF's and better scopes that track reliably and allow us to see better.This with sleek,wind cleaving,gravity defying bullets,and generally more accurate rifles with the knowledge to use them....so this is where we are...the envelope has been extended and where it stops I really don't know, but human beings seemingly always driven to test themselves and their tools, I don't see an end in sight yet..,

Through all of this advancement in technology, the one thing that remains constatnt(or inconsistent)is the skill of the user.Without sufficient experience and expertise of the users,the tools are useless...

Biggest question in my mind is..."What is the effect on game,and our oppourtunity to hunt it?"

As we become more successful at the use of the technology,likely our chances to pursue it will become less frequent and this is a trend already seen in limited quota draws for rifle hunting vs over the counter license sales for bow hunters,and iron sighted muzzleloaders.

The lesser technology makes us less succesful over all,so more get to participate.Those sheep killed on the video aren't on a special draw for nothing.....and I bet that if we all had to use iron sights during the Colorado deer season, residents would not have to be on a draw......

So as I see it while the advancement in technology makes us more likely to be successful in times of limited licenses and shorter seasons,and dwindling game supplies and greater demand, there may be a tug-of-war going on to eventually downgrade the technology to provide more opportunity for more folk.Certainly a balance is going to be reached at some point,and maybe it has already....I dunno.

Humans being humans there will be those who will buy in to the gear and the practice of LR shooting who have neither the facilities to practice, nor the inclination(as in "lazy")but fully expect the reults, so they will try with abysmal results,and either miss, or "worse", wound,which,even though we all know it happens,is or should be, unacceptable.

This is not the fault of Greybull Precision nor other makers of LR shooting gear anymore than it is the "fault" of the SUV manufacturer that some clown drove one through the front window of McDonalds.

I know people who think they can do the same thing just because they have a Savage Heavy Barrel rifle. We all know that the Savage rifle if far more accurate than a Remington, Winchester, or Ruger--and cost $200 dollars less!!

I really don't want to hunt that way but if others do, great for them.

I really don't care what Greybull Precision charges. I used to work for a company that charged a lot more than GP for a rifle and no scope. And they too had a very limited list of options. Guess what, the rifles sold and there is an extensive waiting time.

I was actually pretty impressed with some of Burns' responses on the other thread when other posters said some negative things about him. Though I'm wondering if the witty replies aren't starting to be a distraction from not answering questions.

I just can't get around the fact that there are no mistakes ever for these guys, there dang near was on the grizzly footage. What really bothers me is it's obivous on some of those hunts that GP talked whoever had the tag (sheep) into using their rifle for the hunt so a video could be made. I really doubt all those recruits spent the time behind the rifle at range to really be proficient. One outfitter that is/was associated with the whole Best of the West, Wind River precision, greybull precision, gunwerks group even advertises that you can use his rifle (which is the same idea as Greybulls) for long range sheep shooting. Now that isn't Burns, but I gotta wonder if the same idea isn't happening with this.

Maybe I'm wrong and there never are any misses/wounding and all these shooters spent countless hours at the range before their shoot at their trophy.

Like I said it isn't the kind of hunting I want to do, isn't the kind of rifle I want to carry, but if those guys are as good as they say and imply to be in the videos then great.

this is great everyone is either right or wrong....

i am comfortable shooting at things i can hit at a distance i know.

i have seen HUNDREDS of people walk into the store and buy the same COLOR box of ammo they bought last year the night before the season opens.... they have not shot their gun since last season and wont till they see a deer. they feel quite comfortable having no clue how far the animal is nor where they hell the bullet is going..... and we share the woods with them every year...

i only have an opinion of how far I can feel good about taking an animal.

i will welcome anyone who puts in more bench time with their hunting rifle AT THE RANGE THEY WILL HUNT than i could ever hope to.....

welcome sir.......

woofer

Long range shooting is best done by a PAIR of experienced shooters. On a military sniper team, the LEAST experienced shooter pulls the trigger. The senior guy dopes the wind and gives the shooter his wind hold in mils, eyeballs the elevation turret and confirms the range setting is correct, an reads and interprets the bullet trace. So, saying that maybe some of these long range kills would never have happened without a good coach, doesn't mean they should not have taken the shot, IMO.

amazing how dead on nuts you were with this simple statement Scott!!!! Hats off!

No, I too thought the question could have been answered more direct.

I had that happen to me twice. I could hear the bullets whizzing over my head. Did not like it not one little bit.

John Porter has been doing this same thing for years.His standard line with clients is,"I'll have one of my rifles along just in case.We'll let you dry fire it a few times and then you can take the shot.We connect on elk all the time out past 1000 yards".

Bottom line is shooting at these ranges allows outfitters and guides to get lazy out of shape [bleep] slobs to fill tags that otherwise wouldn't get filled.The guide doesn't have to bust ass trying to put on a stalk just to have some winded slob mess it up,horses don't get torn up carrying lardasses across terrain that shouldn't be ridden but has to be because the client can't walk it.

If the client doesn't want to shoot at long range,the guide/outfitter simply rambo's the client over all kinds of rough terrain,combined with with high elevation for a couple days until the poor [bleep] cries uncle and agrees to shoot long range. It's also very common for the guide to do the shooting,with nobody the wiser..

Having a problem with this video and this style of shooting is very akin to saying cars shouldn't be sold that exceed the maximum allowable speed limit.

Yes animals lives are at stake but the end game is everyone is free to choose their way.

With the proper preparation and practice I think this is some amazing shooting.

Tom

Good points Tom.

Question Tom, at what ratio of clean kills vs. wounded animals are acceptable to you? 10 kills, 3 wounded? 3 kills, 10 wounded?

In my state, wanton waste of game, not recovered by a good faith effort is illegal and punishable. How does this play out in a scenario where 'pot shots' might be taken at game, and said animals are never recovered?

What about wounded game that may have been taken cleanly by other hunters not out to snipe game? What about unrecovered animals, the meat not eaten by a hunter, and they are taken out of the reproductive pool?

What about hunters who get '2nd dibs' on shot opportunities, when bullets are flying over them towards game they are stalking?

Thoughts? Are ANY and ALL LR Game Sniping shots justified? Or should one consider the true costs of shots gone awry?

Whats an acceptable range? 800 yds? 1200? 1600? 2200? Where does this trend end?

Are you like this all the time?

Didn't take a genius...

You are delving way off course here... Folks get shot past all the time on public grounds... it isn't only LR folks that might do that by accident... hell I've seen folks do it much shorter ON PURPOSE...

As to acceptable... beat to death its been, but you cannot put a distance on it... it all depends... its up to the shooter to know that he is 200% sure... and an LR guy is generally... while the weekend wally world bore sighted warriors blaze away at game up close, wounding more, loosing more... not even going to look... the LR shots are by far the LEAST of your concerns ethically by far.

What's clear to me, is most of you guys don't get out enough.

What's clear to me is that a lot of the same guys feel they need to make decisions for others on hunting and shooting, not to mention how they spend their time and money...

For my particular tastes I would like my ratio to be under 1/10. I definetly don't like the thought of waste. We are likely in the same boat on many of these opinions.

Issue here is the assumption. No one can assume that the hunter isn't a practiced shooter. In addition, it's up to choice. The guy behind the rifle might not care if they loose 9 of 10 animals. We hope that there aren't many out there like that.

I'll share a story that might set my thoughts off. My uncle and I were standing near the barn at a farmer friend's property. It was hunting season in Pennsylvania. As we were standing there a doe dashes between the two fields around 150 yard running parallel to us. My uncle pulls up his rifle and fires off a shot and we see the deer tumble. We walk up to the deer and it's spined. Without hesitation the farmer pulls out a knife and starts gutting it. The damn deer is still completely alive and this guy is gutting the thing. To him that's just normal. He's a farmer. Me I was pretty shocked.

This happened when I was younger. Around 17. Now that I've been there and done that, I've slit a few throats etc... That and what the farmer did were pretty much on par.

Different points of view I guess.

Tom

Good vid to watch, thx for supplying it, just got in from a night on the hill looking for billy the bruin, cold n wet snow and rain..gotta love Sept in the Rockies..

Looks to me like the fella shooting the 890 yd Alaskan moose had an empty case or two sitting on his pack b4 the kill shot? True or not?

Are you actually in Greybull John and if so is that range in GB as well?

Thx
Dober

Dober,

Not sure what you are referring to on Moose?? Is this Best of the West??

I am on the Greybull River but upriver from Greybull.

I need a good area to chase blackies in Mt and would be willing to swap info and assistance on WY elk, deer , antelope if someone though that might be a fair trade.

I would haul 4 of the best riding and packing mules to MT to chase spring blackies if only I knew where to start. He He.

John,

The moose I was talking about popped up as a pic at the end of your vid when you nuked the yote, I could click on the bottom of the vid that you put up it said something like 890 yd moose and I clicked on it. I've no idea if it's BOW or who's but it was on the vid you put up.

Just found it, it says something about Jim's moose kill, and Huskemaw scopes, it is on BOTW and was on u-tube, who knows how I found it last night, I was cold n about a popsicle...grin

I got warmed up, now it's time to go to my G-sons first football game in his new tackle league. Thinking about taking my ground blind to sit in...grin

Have a super day there John

Dober

Side note John, what do you like for bullets in an 06?

Gracias

Dober

Dober,

I am a big fan of the VLD. The 168gr would be my first choice and if it didn�t shoot I would give the 185 a shot.

The longer bearing surface will sometimes make the difference.

I just received a DVD from Berger. Pretty impressive kills! Got a nice recipe using 43.5 grains/imr4895 with 155 VLD's.

Moving the green box's aside to make room for the orange.

Stat, thanks for the reply.

Thx John, I kind of thought you'd mention that one. Also think I'd like to use the 200 Sierra.

Dober

Bump for a fun video

Dober

Hunt the way you like, i could care less if you shoot at a big game animal at 50 yards or 1000 yards as long as you kill it. Shots at long range can be made on a regular basis as well as shots at close range can be missed . The secret is to know your rifle and load and then practice under field conditions. I would rather have a poor shot shooting at me at 300 yards with a rifle than a good shot shooting at me with a Model 29 44 mag at the same distant. Hunter need to stick together regardless of how you hunt if you want the sport to survive in this Liberal Oriented World we live in.

We found two antelope bucks decomposing on on our place this year, that were wounded on neighboring ranches and ran onto ours before dying, and in years past I've found wounded antelope dragging legs after the season closed. Not pretty.

Lots of long range blasting at game animals by people that don't know their limits these days and, apparently, some who don't really care if they wound game animals. That's a shame.

Also heard lots of horror stories about land owners who refuse access to recover wounded game.

Or someone is taking running shots they shouldn't and the antelope got away. Animals can be wounded and shots can be bad or risky anywhere from 0-1000+ yds.

Those may be true. I've had ranchers tell me lots of horror stories about people who have trespassed and/or poached, and I've seen more than a few examples myself. In '09 one our paying hunters watched a hunter drop a buck several hundred yards on our property. The guy and the buck were gone before anyone could drive over there. We did find his 7mm WSM casing. The year before that I was out working on windmills and found two guys with a very nice dead buck in one of our pastures. They proudly told me they'd killed it right there after a hard stalk. Problem was they were more than a mile off of the ranch they thought they were on. Experiences with jerks and morons like these can make ranchers less than friendly.

I've never had a hunter come ask if they could follow a wounded animal. If they did, I'd help them out, but then I'm a fellow hunter and I don't like to see a buck suffer needlessly.

Is it me or at 6 mins 46 can you see the bullet on its way?

Ive watched it over and am pretty sure it is

Well, you see the vapor trail (typically called bullet trace). Most have never seen it because you need to be shooting beyond 300 yard/meters for it to show up. That is what a sniper's spotter is looking for. A good sniper team knows whether or not they made the hit or not if conditions allow bullet trace to be seen.

yeah, I wasnt sure if it was that or the bullet,Ive never seen it as clear before

Well, there sure was some mighty impressive shooting. I must say however that it's not my cup of tea. I prefer to see the whites of their eyes before I shoot. That doesn't mean I don't prepare for the possible long shot. I do. WEhen I draw for elk,as rare as that is with Arizona's stinginess with the tags, the area I draw the most also has mostly long range shooting in very wide open parks. I practice to 500 meters on my ranges silhouette range in kneeling and sitting. I don't plan to shoot my .300 Mag. in the prone any time soon. I'm 72 years old and I've been hunting since I was 11. Sneaking up on a critter is what turns me on. In all that time, I've lost four animals. One deer at short range with a bow and arrow. It took off and I didn't find it until the next days when the birds showed me where it was. Another deer was hit too far back and although the wife and I looked until sundown, we never found it. The next one was an elk shot at about 45 years with a .375 H&H. It made one big leap over some tall brush and went over a cliff. We couldn't find a way down. The last was a cow elk in those wide open spaces where I seem to get the tag for. One shot at 530 yards, laser measure, about 8 in the morning, no wind, and I'm sitting on my butt. Band flop DRT. I love my .300 Win. mag. I go over, tag the elk and go back to the truck which is about a mile awy to get my wife to help with the gutting. On the way back I see too A-holes on ATVs each one with half my elk on the back of their machines. I guess I can't say I lost that one as if it got away and I couldn't find it. I still consider it a loss though. I thought I'd finally broke my elk hunting jinx. Well, we'll see what happens if and when I draw another tag.
In all my years hunting though, I've only had to take three shots I would consider long range. A Mule Deer at 250 yard in th Kaibab National Forest and another Mule Deer at 427 paces that my hunting partner wounded that was getting away. That one surprise hell out of me as that deer was really hauling. A real luck shot. Bad luck for the deer and good luck for me.
Paul B.

Hey John how does the huskemaw 5-20 compare to your scope?

What are you using for a bipod? Thanks
Brad.. Still on the mules huh?

ChuckJ,

The Huskemaw is bigger and heavier.

They gave me one and it has a lot of debris on the reticle and is not very good optically when compared to our scope.

It also only has 4 MOA of wind compensation.

I see that the guy who started Huskemaw has now switched to a different optic.


Brad,

The Stoney Point bipod and still on the mules but not as much as I would like.

Gotta be a great product if using the name 'Stoney!

O brother

Had not thought to try a stoney point bipod... may have to give them a look now with the suggestion! I know the Sinclair ones are more accurate to a degree... but dont' want to pack something like that around... have dealt with Harris all these years but you do need time with a bipod to get used to it... much like learning to shoot a light rifle...

Thanks John Burns for this cool video. I was on youtube today and saw it for the first time. I greatly enjoy long range shooting and hunting. My furthest shots were made this year, the longest being 749 yards on a Marmot. Next year I'll be looking to break 800, then see just how far I can take it. The small handful of guys I've known that have learned to shoot the way you depict on your video very rarely missed a shot on game. They really knew how to shoot, and when not to. A long shot is not a guess if you know what you are doing. When I was in the outfitting business my clients that were long range shooters were mostly military or law enforcement, or had received such training. Every so often there would be one like me, and a few friends, who just liked to shoot and took the time to read and learn and practice. I think the usual ration of crap on these threads about how unethical this kind of marksmanship is usually comes from guys who have no clue as to what their rifles can really do. Good Work John Burns.

Still waiting for the free advice. All I have seen is a bunch of "advertising" and bragging. And have also noticed quite a bit of "degrading" what others like because it wasn't done his way. Reminds me muchly of another member that from time to time finds his way back here.

280Ackleyrized,

Dude, you have a logo for Nosler in your avatar and you complain about me advertising??

Every post you make is an ad for �The Accubond Society� NUF SAID

You have to admit that is pretty darn funny right there no matter who you are.

As to the free advice here you go:

Don�t fry bacon in the nude.

Thank you Mr. burns. I will now retract the part of my former post about no free advice.

John,

I've been messing with the Stoney Point bipod for the last year or so. Neat bipod; I'm not crazy about the finicky little "pod" that mounts to the sling swivel, though once mounted it seems solid.

Anyway I love how light and trim it is BUT I've broken two of them at the rubber "head" where the legs come together. Have you seen any durability or breakage issues with them?

Jeff,

There has been an issue with the rubber used after Bushnell moved production to China.

My understanding is the problem has been fixed and they will replace any that split.

I really like the design but would stress test any before you depend on them in the field.

Ah, that makes sense! I had heard that they'd replace them but hadn't heard about the China angle. I was wondering how such a slick product could have such a fundamental design flaw.

The store I bought mine at just swapped them. Likely, the one I have now is from the same lot. I've been careful not to smush the legs too wide, but that's a bummer because that's a nice feature...

How wide will you splay yours out? This wide?

I believe that it was Dizzy Dean that said "it ain't bragging if you can dot it"

Not Babe Ruth

I have heard it attributed to both men, as well as American poet Walt Whitman- who predated both men.

Either way, someone said it- and it's true.

well i say it aint bragging if you can back it up

mr. burns why are your caliber selections so few on your builds

Maconcountyboy,

We choose to specialize in the rounds we have found to work the best. We sell a lot of scopes to guys that have different opinions and want the ability to dial the range directly with the caliber of their choice.

The .338 mags would be a great offering,along with a few 300 mags.They bring alot of performance to the Long range game.

No, they bring a lot or RECOIL and WEIGHT (that you don't need) to the game.

What happened to the Van Zwol elk hunt video?

It was posted over in the Gunwriter forum. I bumped it.

Yeh if you can't handle it Take a Knee. I have shot excellent groups at 1000 yards with 338 mags,yeh guess they won't work...Also deliver 2000 ft lbs + energy at 1000 yards.. The 7mm rem is way behind the performance level of the 338 mags..

I had a chance to ring steel with a 338 Lapua in 1987. I'll stick with a fast seven. Your 338 "sucks and blows" compared to a Chey-Tac. Sometimes less is more.

John Burns,

Thank you for the great videos. And thank you for showing the world what some hunters can achieve. Keep up the good work.

Patriot

Just a thought...what's the difference between long range hunting and sniping? Bragging rights? Rifles sold that are used without practice? Kind of like folks who prefer driven game. To each his own. Do what you enjoy and practice till it's second nature. For me...I prefer to get as close as possible, with some game that's almost impossible...enjoy the hunt...

Sniping:

Two-way range, gut shootin' the SOB to die next week, or mangling his leg is OK

LR Hunting:

Ethical, humane shots are the order of the day, if not you are just another slob hunter.

Hunting with blackpowder cartridge rifles ain't my thing, but I don't post and ask stupid questions of those who do.

I guess "ethical" depends on ones definition. Kinda like "stupid".

Not really...




I just love the sanctimonious ones.

Since you're caught up in definitions, define HUNT.

Generally I stand clear of these whizzing contests...FWIW my $0.02...

I don't have an issue with taking game at long range, if you are up to it and have the proper equip., practice and conditions. Personally, I am not sure about 6 large for a rifle/scope, but WTF, if John can sell them and make a living doing it, more power to him. His guns obviously shoot as can he....

One can make an argument that it can be done with less cake, but the fact is, it is being done with his rifles. So be it.

The only issue I had with the video was, what guide in his right mind would let a client shoot a griz at 622 yards? I don't care what you are shooting, that is asking for trouble.

Death wish perhaps.....

Tony

PS: John, good vid, enjoyed it. Glad you hammered the griz.

Tony,

Glad you enjoyed the video.

I had a friend bring 5 twenty something kids to the rod and gun club yesterday. We brought rifles and pistols for them to shoot. The guys brought a couple .22 rifles. I brought my .300WSM.

I had it built for about $3000 with a Nesika action, HS Precision bottom metal, a Micmillan stock, Lilja barrel, and Jewel trigger. Talley Mounts and a Leupold scope (not included in the 3K). I took it with me to North Carolina the last two years I rifle hunted. I got to shoot out to 500 yards and wrote out the bullet drop on the stock.

The last year, I shot two deer at 450 yards. I dropped both on their faces. Now, after bow hunting the last 12 or so years, I thought about the distance yesterday. There's a farmer's field next to our property and it's 380 yards to the far side of it. I had the kids at the range, pointed to a red barrel on the far shore, and said the two deer I shot were 70 yards further away. The kids just looked at me. I figured from shooting coffee cans that 500 yds is as far as I'm going to go. I even get the feeling that 500yds is pushing it.

I have no problem with anyone who is "Skilled" to get the job done and has proper equiptment. The knowledge and practice to boot by the way.

The only eithic problem I might raise is shooting a dangerous animal at long distance. This I myself would never do even if I had a 50BMG all set up. There are just to many things that can happen and wounding a dangerous game animal is a no no and then trying to get back on it from 500 to 1000 yards is real shaky!!!

I did enjoy the taking of the coyote and hope to do so with the wife and I this coming year. We have the 4 rifles and scopes we will be taking on that P-dog & predator hunt. All but one are Savage model 12's (calibers are .204-Ruger .223, 22-250, Ruger 77 in 25-06) with Bushnell 3200 series Tactical scopes in the 5 to 15 power.

Mag, Not trying to be sactimonious. Here in East Texas we use the old fashioned ambush method. We plant a food plot, set up a feeder, place a ground blind and wait. Nothing like the hunting a lot of folks have the privelage of doing elswhere. Whether long range, still hunting or chasing the little suckers down, it simply boils down to doing what you enjoy. I'd love to be able to hunt in Colorado or Alaska one day, but that is something I'll have to wait for. As far as long range goes, I'm not near a competent enough of a marksman to try it on game. Varmints yes, game no.

NOTE FROM DAD, I'M GOING TO CONFESS TO HAVING BEEN JOHN'S STEP DAD, HIS MOM AND I WERE TOGETHER FOR TEN YEARS,WE CALLED HIM JACK BACK THEN, ALSO SCOTT'S UNCLE. I WILL LET YOU KNOW WHAT JOHN IS DOING TODAY STARTED WHEN STILL IN DIAPERS AND HAS NOT LET UP TO DATE. I COULD'T KEEP HIM OUT OF MY RELOADING STUFF,RIFLES,PISTOLS ETC. HE AND BUDDIES WERE HUNTING AND SHOOTING EVERY EVENING AFTER SCHOOL. JOHN, SCOTT AND I HUNTED TOGETHER SINCE THEY WERE JUST BIG ENOUGH TO CARRY SLING SHOTS. BY THE WAY, I NEVER SAW EITHER LOOSE A ANIMAL. BOTH THESE GUYS AND OTHER PARTNERS IN GREYBULL PRECISON HIGH QUALITY INDIVIDUALS, AND 24 HR CAMPFIRE ARE VERY LUCKY TO HAVE THEM AROUND. IN MY OPINION, IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN LONG RANGE PRECISION HUNTING, OR PUNCHING HOLES IN TARGETS, OR SHOOTING ROCKS LIKE JOHN DOES FOR PRACTICE, THEN LET SOMEONE ELSE HAVE ALL THOSE UNUSED RIFLES AND GET A SHOOTER, YOU ONLY NEED ONE. JUST A WORD FROM A PROUD DAD, FOR A YOUNG MAN LIVING HIS DREAM--BY THE WAY, AND YOU HAVE TO BE OLD TO REMEMBER THIS--IT WAS DIZZY DEAN--AND IT WAS, IF YOU DONE IT, IT AIN'T BRAGGIN

John Boy,

I apologize. Your hunting is the way I hunted for most of my life (I lived in Texas until I was 40). Again, sorry for the snotty post.

Good, leave, go back to your arm chair and Saturday night drunken haze.....jeez!

FAR more critters are wounded and lost at under 100 yards than all other ranges combined, especially in Eastern states where cover is dense. There have been several surveys on this posted over the years. Why? Because FAR FAR FAR more shots are taken at close range in thick brush from weekend warriors that get buck fever. Precious few hunters have a clue how to track an animal or to even know what to look for. If the animal doesn't die in the scope, they figure they missed and walk off. I have pointed several guys to their down and dead animals that they thought they missed, or couldn't track due to lack of ability or intelligence. It boggles my mind why they are even in the field.

Just like bow hunting, knife hunting, muzzle loading etc. They all demand a certain amount of skill and training. Long range hunting is indeed a sport, ethical and takes talent and skill, just like anything else. I don't believe or like your style of hunting (box stands, grain feeders, food plots), so you are unethical...right? Nope, just your way of doing things. You don't like, can't do or don't believe in long range hunting, fine, don't do it. You will NEVER stop the weekend warrior from thinking "he can do it" no matter what weapon or caliber he has in his hands, or what you tell him. Each to his own.

John has made a business out of selling dreams to people that lack the skill and ability in many areas. John isn't pulling the trigger, the idiots are. So let's blame the spoon for making Rosey O'Donnell fat. Flinch

Flinch, good to see you back.. The place has changed when the population moved in..

I'm seeing that and not liking it. Too many window lickers and arm chair weekend warriors. Now I know why I left the last time. You can lead a horse to water.......but. Flinch

I spanked my buck this year at 503 with the dinky, underpowered, worthless 200 yard maximum range 7mm-08. That is 3 bucks in three years, all over 500 yards with it. Sure is a Worthless round ;o) Flinch

Nice Flinch, congrats! Bullet, powder, primer, velocity?

H4895, Hornady 120 grain hollow point, 3,023 fps from buggy whip 22" tube. Leupold 3x9 tactical (turrets and mildots). Remington blue printed 700 action, Mcmillan Remington classic stock. All up, 7.5 lbs. Love that rifle! Flinch

Actually quite a dull video for the fuss. In all this, something that I haven't seen mention of is the peculiar notion we have that wildlife is here somehow for us to "play" with. I am totally down with hunting and actually prefer it to buying farmed meat. And I am well aware of the commendable wildlife conservation efforts that are partially supported by the firearms industry, but it's the "sport" thing I can't get past.

It's not sport, it's not a game. Those animals deserve more respect at any distance.

I consider myself a sporting rifleman, but when I hunt it has nothing to do with sport. Quarry is never offered a chance when I pull that trigger, else I don't pull that trigger.

-=tpr=-

Wow. You have never missed?

Dink

If it�s not a sport, what is it? It certainly isn�t needed for survival, not if you live in the Unites States. You can go buy meat cheaper than you can �harvest� it to eat when you factor in the cost of the gear and gas to drive to wherever you hunt. In a few, very few limited circumstances, people live where they hunt and butcher and process their own meat. For them, I might call it something other than sport. It�s not survival though if they work and a supermarket is within driving distance. For the vast majority of hunters we fall under the larger umbrella of Shooting Sports.

Of course I've missed. That doesn't make it a sport. It's affording the animal the chance in the first place that appears to have some guys calling it a sport, like trophy hunters who are not interested in the meat. Every yard I close on an animal that chance is diminished IME. If I'm ever uncertain that I can make a shot, I won't take it. There's actually no reason to, the animal isn't going to vanish into thin air.

We all come from different angles I understand. I'd rather try to do my part by not buying meat off the shelf if I can. I did so for many years and was all but self sufficient. We also had a garden and an orchard, kept cows and pigs, ducks and chickens. We had absolutely no money, but were fortunate in where we lived for a while out in the middle of nowhere. Being able to do that was a privilege for me that I no longer have.

It's the display of arrogance that comes out in this culture that shrivels my gonads. Who needs the anti when we do such a great job at making ourselves and fellow hunters look like lazy twats with entitlement issues?

-=tpr=-

Anyone that can kill game at 600,800 or 1000 yards are better shots than the guys that kill everything under a 100 yards.
I would bet that more deer are crippled/wounded under 200 yards than over 200 yards. Under 200 yards everyone has a chance of hitting a deer somewhere with their SKS, 30-30 or 30-06 that has not been shot in 5 years. It must still be sighted in because the last time they shot it was sighted in.

You have stated that you never take a shot unless you are certain that you can make the shot yet you have missed. Does that mean you think you are a better shot than what you are? How can one miss if he is always certain of the shot?

If you are shooting at animals something can always happen. It does not matter if the animal is 50 yards or 900 yards sometimes chit just happens.

Most guys that kill game at long range are not arrogant in my opinion but confident of what they can do. They really don't like it when other people are passing judgement on them because they refuse to put in the time and money it takes to kill stuff at long range.

Dink

Tell ME about it! I just replinished my old 30-378 brass with new brass. I bought 200 pieces for $600.00. Now I have to prep it and fireform it. Then it'll be ready to hunt and compete with.

DINK: I am not saying that I am always certain�of anything. I am saying that I offer no chances. It's the chance element afforded by the shooter that is veiled as "sport" which somehow makes us accept it. It is that "sport" that I personally find repulsive. Nurture, respect and harvest by all means, but this (very expensive) long range thing is just target practice... they have gongs for that.
-=tpr=-

Thanks for sharing your opinion; I'm sure the gentlemen here who've cleanly killed multiple animals at well over 600 yards will take that opinion into consideration the next time they're afield.

Are you playing your facetious card this early in the argument?
You disappoint me.

Tell me how you justify taking shots on valuable game at those ridiculous distances. Game�I hasten to add�that we all pay to conserve, and that we all have a vested interest in.

-=tpr=-

Maybe you started out a bit shriveled? I believe it was Dizzy Dean who opined, "It ain't braggin' if you can do it".

Maybe you need to go watch some Alan Alda on the Oxygen channel.

if thats the case then you better NEVER EVER pull the trigger. If you were capable of understanding though... you'd understand that most of us that will take LR shots, have the same mantra as you. Its a slam dunk or we don't let it go bang. The fact that our slam dunk could be a few yards further than yours should make no difference.

But back to your world of non reality..... there is ALWAYS a chance of something going wrong even if you take only close shots. Debris in the way. Faulty powder charge or primer to slow a load way down. Faulty bullet that won't expand. A screw breaking or coming loose on your next shot, the scope having just given up the ghost on the last shot and totally loosing its zero and so on.
Sorry to tell you but NOTHING in life is a given other than that old cliche.....

Thats my side of this chat.

Jeff

A animal is a animal. A dead animal is a dead animal. It does matter (or know) if it was shot from 50 yards or 1050 yards.

I am not the long range shooter that alot of guys are but I am really trying to be. I have spent literaly thousands upon thousands of dollars to be a better shot.

It is important to ME to fill tags. I am not there to watch sun rises and sun sets. I them there to kill stuff. If I have five doe tags in my pocket and five doe's cross a field my intention is to kill all five. Not two, or three. I want to kill them all.

I just put in for a $600 Montana muledeer tag. If on the last day (or the first day really) a big muledeer buck steps out at 600 yards my intention is to kill him. Not to come home and say "I saw a big one but he was to far to shoot out".

Dink

+1.....another self righteous keyboard warrior's opinion of something he is totally clueless about.

[bleep] me, I hate that he's making me take sides with Burns.

Said the genius with 1500 posts.
Ha ha ha!!!
-=tpr=-

To make fun of scenarshooter shows who is clueless.

Dink

I do believe you have bitten off more than you can chew from your beginning post to this whopper here.

lol

Now I'm really bothered. Grow up you arse holes.

Your 25 posts don�t say a thing about your ability one way or another. You may be the best hunter the board has ever seen; you may also be full of schit. In 25 posts we can hardly tell one way or another. Additionally, unless you�ve been lurking for 5 years and just now decided to become a member so you can post (even IF that were true, no one would believe it), you don�t know who on this board are the real deal. To cast aspersions on scenar shooter is the height of cluelessness. He�s the real deal. Post less and read more, then post later when you get a better feel for the board�or not.

Yeah right? Little things please little minds right? I'd have to point out I merely drew attention to the irony of his remark. And yes I find (at least) 80 percent of you internet experts funny.

Avoid disappointment tomorrow, get used to people laughing at you today.

Truth is I wish there was a better forum than 24. 98 percent of it is trash. But there are gems up here, and folk worth listening to.

-=tpr=-

Not when you're bumping your gums non-stop.

Trivial 4ucking bullshite. Do some reading yourself, get an education... you'd be one of the first.
-=tpr=-

I have an education, and I do a lot more reading than I do posting.

[bleep].

I stalked and killed a buck I caught bedded down at 30 yards that knew he was busted. I killed an elk a 600 yards that didn't have a clue I was there. IMO the 30 yard shot had more potential to go wrong than the 600 yard one. I want to be the best rifleman I can be, as not to handicap my self from using my rifle to its full potential.

Don't feed the trolls, and TPR looks like a B&C class troll, here to get GBP TTT.....

Tony

When hunting open farm hill country over a 40 some year period. I gesstimate having shot at 15 or so deer @ 300+ yds. the longest shot being 530yds. The range was lazered after the shot. My estimate befor shooting was 400yds.; I missed the first shot corrected higher and killed on 2nd shot.
Some of the long shots required second shots and one I had to track down and finish, this one had started to move just as the trigger broke and it was to late to stop the shot.
The only deer I shot and lost was a short range shot with a 30-30. No I don't blame the 30-30, I suspect bad shot placement. aprox. half of these were with 270WIN, 130gr b-tip. The rest 270WSM, 130gr b-tip or 140gr a-bond. I'm a good shot but I've also been lucky to recover the few wounded ones. Granted these were not longe range compared to the 600-900 shots others make, but they were made with a standard rifle and scope.
My conclusions If you feel confident of making the shot be it far or near, take the shot.

When I quoted you I was pointing out the irony contained within your post. You said you weren't convinced you were right, and then went on to make an assertion with a level of certainty which suggested disingenuousness.

Personally, I've never taken a shot at an animal that would be considered by most standards these days "long range". My longest is 300 yards.

Fact is, as has been pointed out earlier by others, I've seen guys who ought to have held off the trigger altogether at ranges under 100 yards because they didn't know what they were doing. Conversely, most of the true "long range hunters" I've interacted with practice a whole lot more than I do and therefore know their limitations better than I do.

Could I make a 500 yard hit? Yeah, probably, given the right conditions. Would I take that shot? No. Does that mean that I am making a moral or ethical judgment of those who would simply because they would? Nope. I know plenty who shouldn't and plenty who would be within their rights, so more information is necessary to make such a judgment.

If your original assertion concerning your lack of certainty were true that would seem to be the logical conclusion you'd have come to also, and so your genuineness is called into question.

EFW, well worded.
Jeff

Ignoranus: A person who's both ignorant and an a$$hole.

WTF?

SH, Last weekend I got the chance to meet JB at the RMEF convention, Pretty sure most of you guys would really like the guy, very helpful, and very knowledgeable, and loves to hunt and shoot, a good guy in my book!

That doesn't surprise me at all Ackleyfan.

Someone makes a disparaging remark about me, and they get it right back (I'm sure he's a lovely guy with a lot of knowledge), but last time I checked, being permitted to defend one's own views is part of being American.

There's this weird bitch-click up here. It would be nice to keep it civil, but you guys get kind of bull-headed and rattle off knee-jerk reactions like a bunch of lines you've learned and got saved up.

I've read it for a long, long time, it's apparent that it's not the place for me. But that's okay.

Have fun guys.
-=tpr=-

ok!

You may try to stop talking out your ass, that'd prolly help.It is hard for some to connect the dots tho.

I kept it civil but you didn't care to engage the logic of my argument.

Sounds like maybe you would be best served starting your own board where anyone who challenges you can have his priveleges revoked.

Then you can converse with yourself about all you know and your vast experience and hear nothing but compliments on your wisdom and depth.

I have no problem with you, your sarcasm however pulls the rug from beneath you argument. I asked you how you justified those longer shots. You replied saying you personally didn't, and that 300 yards was your tops. That's fine, I respect that. My beef is with those that spit out the "dumbass" one-liners. It's very "highschool" and I can't hold a conversation with that mentality, it's not worth it. I have worked with computers for over twenty five years and spend too much time in front of screens to apportion any of it to people who while only slinging 5hit, can't even do it in an actual sentence.

-=tpr=-

I did address how I justify such shots. I said that those I know who seek shots that you and I would consider long range do so after much practice and knowing their limitations. As a matter of fact, they likely know their limitations better than I do because they shoot a lot more than me.

I'd love to get to the point where my limitations were increased due to practice and a rifle built for long range hunting. I'll take a 600+ yard shot on game when I've been clanging steel with regularity and encountered conditions similar to those in the field, I'll go ahead and take something at what may be considered "long range".

Problem is, you said yourself that you don't know things for certain, and then turned around and said that you DO know for certain that no one ought to take the shots you're arguing against.

So which is it?

I did say that I understand that nothing is for certain. I also said I don't take chances. The confusion arises when folk are not willing to make the differentiation between deliberately taking unnecessary chances, versus accepting inevitable risks. They then follow by trying to qualify their chances-taking either as sport or as an entitlement merely because they have pony'd up the cash for five tags that they want to fill. From what you have told me, I can see that you don't do that. Like many others, I am not convinced that the folk in that video aren't taking any unnecessary chances. I personally find that irresponsible, and furthermore damaging to a common cause that we all share, all in the name of selling product or service (read disservice). That is my take on it, which may be of interest�as the views of others are to me�to anyone here who has more to contribute beyond shallow high-school jip, however much of an expert they, or others think they are.

-=tpr=-

I think that one guy that keeps showin up in that video is pretty anoying.

Those guys must smell bad so they can't get any closer.

John,

Have you ever thought of making some custom made 22 lr pistols using leupold pistol eer variable scopes with your custom modifications in a Browning or a Ruger?

I think that they would be kind of like an entry level system to get people into the skill sets necessary and the taste to get people to step up to the plate for your system.

You show a sort of modified ruger 22 in your Shooting beyond belief dvd series and I was just wondering if that was an avenue that you had thought about.

A custom XP100 or 600 pistol hand rifle system might be interesting as well.

Just Thinking out loud.

Sincerely,
Thomas

Very well said kind Sir.
GOD BLESS,
Mac

Pro whiffle will probably take offense to John shooting rocks....

Claiming you need to be closer, because those poor rocks deserve some respect as well.

JMHO...but this is some great shooting, but some poor "hunting"

Define hunting.

Ask a hundred people and you'll get a hundred different "right" answers. In the July 2011 issue of Petersen's Hunting, Mike Schoby went on a tirade in his editorial about the ethics of long range hunting.

In it, he criticizes a television show that promotes long range hunting and contends it isn't fair chase. Schoby indicated that he shared an elk camp with some inexperienced hunters who were "Kool-Aid-drinking fans" of the show and said they had a "fatal flaw" and were "looking for and easier way of being successful."

He rebukes those who rely on technology to make up for deficiencies in expertise and experience. Schoby went on to say, "I feel sorry for the folks who buy into this stuff" and "long range surgical strikes remove much of the experience of why we hunt."

Last year, I was at my local archery shop talking smack with one of the owners when I guy came in to get his bow restrung. I guess he thought he had the right audience and started yacking about how he only hunted with a bow. He thought the vast majority of rifle hunters were slobs who had limited skills and didn't think that harvesting an animal at "hunderd" yards was ethical or sportsmanlike.

I wonder how Schoby would defend his use of centerfire rifles wearing glass to this guy. Even an entry level Savage rifle and Bushnell scope is pretty sweet "technology" from a historical perspective. It sure takes more skill to kill with stick and string than a .30-06. If that's the case, why doesn't he eschew firearms and use a bow if it's all about experiencing the outdoors and proving your skill set a hunter?

I think debating the ethics of how we hunt and why we hunt is healthy. However, it's obvious that some drink too much of their own Kool-Aid like Mike Schoby. He makes its clear that why and how "he" hunts is also why and how "we" should hunt. Schoby references Boone and Crockett's definition of fair chase in that animals should be hunted "in a manner that does not give the hunter improper advantage."

When it comes to killing schit, what's the proper way and what's the improper way? After four decades of hunting, I'm relatively entrenched on the why and how I hunt, but I'm not going try to bend you to my will. I just can't understand why so many are myopically bent on overlaying their subjective ethical positions on others.

Excellent post BlueK9!

Bob

Agreed ! that scoundrel tried to sneak up on me frying bacon last summer....

John,
Can you tell me what stock you are using in your videos?
Thanks

John,
also noticed in your video that you reference a PHB bullet. Does that stand for premier hunting bullet, or is it the Nosler Partition PHB ?
If not can you tell me what bullet you are using?

Just a guess but Id say a greybull precision stock. IMO a great stock and I love mine!

Wasn't sure if it was a greybull stock. The foreend did not look right.

Yep, me too. Awesome ergonomics and quite light ( 2 3/4#) for what it is.

I keep hearing all this negetive crap on long range hunting, if you haven't tried it maybe you should, you don't need to put down people because they want to be better, the people i know including myself that do long range hunting get out and practice at a range or a long range school.Dont put us down because you cant do it and we can. Maybe you need to go find a short range hunting forum and get off this one. Good job John.

Hey John...decided to build a 6.5 x 47 instead of a 260 Rem

EH76-what is the 6.5x47 case based off? I just had rednecked a 260 together and am loving it!

Dober

308 dia head but with a small rifle primer. Was going to do a 260 Rem, but my buddy built a 6.5 x 47 Lapua and has the reamer for it. 140 gr VLD at 2850 fps out of a case approx 8 mm shorter than the 260 Rem. I have a 260 Rem in an XP-100R.

Keith

You might be in 4 some hangfires in cold weather with the SR primers.

Ha ha ha, these long range threads are great. If you got it, you got it. If you can't hack the distance stuff or don't agree with it, no sweat. Don't do it, or take up knitting. Funny how you don't hear the long range guys bitching but there is a constant moan from those who don't agree with it. Maybe I should start sniveling and bitching about anything shot under 300 yards. The rifle most often than not is capable. It's a driver/ pilot issue.

Bump because I like the original post. Can't wait to see more.

Yes. Among conventional troops in the Army, snipers are looked upon as freaks, nutcases, or worse. ESPECIALLY by conventional officers.

In SF however, a sniper school grad is admired and considered one handy muldoon to have around.

So, all you anti-LR types stand in good company with all the REMF, poggy-bait chewing, ball-washing back-biters that epitomize every thing that is wrong with the US military.

Awesomeness and a hint of Chuck Norris' only tear.

Sorry these arent in action but here are a couple of my sticks with a greybull stock.

.243


.300wm

260 is where it is at... I can say this after having the 6.5X47L

I have a new .260 inbound from Roger.

I couldn't agree more.

.
That's only gonna happen when the animals can return fire.

That is the politest F_ OFF I have ever seen posted....well done.

No he won't. I've used them in my 6.5x47L down to -25 degrees Celcius about 200 miles north of your border. Never had an issue.....

I would truly like to increase my range. I mostly hunt in Africa and a couple of things, most of the ph's do not like and some do not allow breaks on guns and usually they try and get closer on plains game but sometimes you just can't and I would like to feel comfortable with a 600 pr 700 yard shot but if you draw blood you pay the fee and will not get another try. If I could shoot like the video I would take the odd long shot but still try and get as close as possible. Some of the game requires big calibers and bullets does greybull build tithe type of gun described. I do not begrudge the man his price if his work is good and it looks like it is. I have never seen one of his rifles but would consider one for mountain nyala as the distance can be a problem for a lot of hunters.is the website greybull precision ?
Thanks