i see nosler has there rifles on sale for 1495.00,,,
any thoughts on the gun, any one have one, i am thinking 280 ack, it has the heavy barrel not the light barrel as the 270,,,,

The talk is that the Nosler action is a Howa or some other asian made. It does not appeal to me at any price.

The Nosler specs show that the 280 weighs a lot more than the WSM version. On top of that they don't chamber the 7mm WSM.

Here is a link to the Nosler site. Nosler rifle

I would wait for the Kimber 84L's or get one of their current Montana's.

i would take a kimber 84l in 280 today at there prices,,, especially with a fiberglass stock,,,

When I Saw the rags touting this I looked at the articles and said... "Just what we need, ANOTHER damned push feed bolt gun" BIG yawn.....

Nothing special about it that I can see. Lots of MUCH better choices at that price point.

Howa actions and Bell and Carlson stocks. Just dont get any better than that.
Not saying there is anything wrong with Howas but not at that price

Once upon a SHOT Show I tried to get Nosler to go public on the relationship of their rifle actions to Howa, but you would have thought I asked them to perform an unnatural act.

My first law of acquisition is if you can't fix it, feature it; obviously it is not theirs.

jim

yeah, but the action IS slabbed.

Lots of sales during the Christmas shopping season.

Products that are normally 5x overpriced are put on sale at 3x...

So...better buy it before it goes off sale, wouldn't want to miss out!

TC

for 1500 clams, I would be thinkin Cooper.....

And be getting your monies worth too.

Sub MOA guarantee, Cerecoat/microslick finish inside and out, Pac-Nor barrel, Timney trigger, not a bad stock. Likely a pretty damn good hunting rifle.

Actually FVA, you're right, it's not a bad price for what you're getting. (at 1500 smackers that is) I was just having some fun - hence the smiley.

Cooper's come with a 1/2 moa guarantee. Oh......and it's made in the USA.........grin

Seems like most of the Nosler is USA made, machined, assembled.
Coopers are nice but pretty much fair weather rifles.

I've shot a few of them and think they are great guns. Both shot 1/2 moa w factory ammo Excellent company with good people, they stand behind their guns and sell many at full price. There aren't a ton of these made - if you want a Nosler, now is a great time to buy.

The December 2010 issue of The American Hunter has a review of the Nosler rifle.

They say Nosler made the actions?

Five shot groups were:

Fed. vital shock 165 gr Barnes TSX 1.52"
Nosler trophy grade 180 gr 1.24"
Winchester ballistic Silvertip 180gr 1.12"

The writers should get together and deliver the same message instead of guessing. Rifle magazine did a review and said the action was made by Pine Tree Castings (owned by Ruger). Another writer said it was "machined" in Oregon by a small machine shop to their (Nosler's) specs. Yet another writer said it was made in house, by Nosler.

Let's do some math:

Weatherby Vanguard rifle, on sale: $399
Bell and Carlson stock, for same: $249 (roughly)
Timney trigger: $100 (thereabouts)
Cerakoting: $150 (not including shipping)
Micro-slicking: $100 (not including shipping)
Bedding of stock: $100 (not including shipping)

So, with those rough figures the Nosler comes out pretty close to what many so called "custom rifles" here at the 'fire cost. Most 'swirlied 700s come in near $1000 when it is all said and done and most scrape $1500 if rebarreled.

On the wood stocked rifles I would agree with you. They do make a synthetic stocked rifle called the Excaliber. It would be perfect if it was a tad lighter, IMO.

I think the first run of Nosler's were made w/higher end stocks, and ltd. to 500 rifles. Later a 'lesser than' stock was used, and not sure about other components.

I would use one. Howa makes good stuff despite if one like where they are mfg. I prefer them over Rem myself in out the box build quality, that's just me.

That said, Cooper looks to have a good reputation and with Dan out, there is not much complaining I hear about. Kimber get's hit/miss reviews so perhaps you roll the dice there, same as my experience w/Rem.

If I spent big bucks on a semi custom, I'd look at Nosler, Cooper, or even a Sako w/McMillan stock myself. If Cooper DOES decide to go w/a SS/Syn rifle in the future, they JUST might be onto something if they keep their price point.

The Nolser Trophies are supposed to have custom match grade barrels installed.

Really, the math would be more like-

Howa Action- $300
Cosmetic action mods/millwork- $100
Barrel blank $250
Fitting barrel $200
Stock $200
Cerakote- $150

So, there is about $1,200 worth of rifle for 1,495.

Nosler's making about a 20% markup. If they truly back that accuracy guarantee, then that's not a bad deal compared to many customs on the market..

Really, the only Cooper that competes with it is their Excalibur model- With the B&C stock.

About the same price, about the same accuracy guarantee.

About the only component that is NOT made in the US is the action on the Nosler. And, the Nolser is a lighter gun caliber for caliber than a Cooper.

Still, most folk would be $$ ahead to buy a Stainless Howa Barreled action and drop it in a Micky Edge for about a grand all up. Properly bedded and shooting handloads, such a gun would probably shoot within 1/4 MOA of the Nosler, if not just as well.

The Nosler 48 uses a higher grade stock and machined bottom metal and a stainless PacNor barrel. The one talked about here is less expensive yet and uses a CM PacNor barrel, B&C stock and blind magazine. I'm thinking the custom touches are coming from this guy...

P T & G

Nosler Bottom Metal..

Exactly.

I had long suspected that the Nosler customs were just reworked Howas. Since the basic action desgin was the same.

When P,T&G started offering their Howa Bolt Shrouds and bottom metal in the same designs, I was certain of it.

One hell of a coincidence if it's not..

Coopers can take tough country. You just tape em up with camo cloth tape, blue electrical tape over the barrel and rig gun grease on the action and parts. I took mine up to the upper reaches of Barnard glacier this last fall. You can ask anybody who has gone up there. It was a blizzard and whiteout with snowsqualls for two out of the eight days I was up there. It handled it and the glacial morraines fine.
I would dare you to find a place that is more hard on equipment.

Cooper Excaliber is a aramid synthetic BC stock which you can get with a ss wilson match barrel in 338-06, 06, 280, 280Ai, 270, 2506, 6.5X284 or in 54s in 308, 7-08, 7X57, 260, 243, 250-3000. 6lbs for the model 54 so not much difference.

You can also get their syn stock for 275, or bedded for 345.

I can't wait unit their magnums come out later this next year. I would like one in 257 Roy, and 264 WM.

coopers unlike noslers have a bank vault for an action.

Sincerely,
Thomas

Well Thomas, I am glad you like Coopers. So do I..

In terms of the lockup, don't see much differnce in the Two lug Howa vs the Cooper..

In terms of design strength they would be equal. In terms of material strength, the Howa might even be better since bolt their bolts and recievers are milled from drop forgings- the Coopers are only milled from bar stock.

The Cooper have a lower bolt lift, but are harder to cock becuase of the steep cocking cam angles... Everything in engineering is pretty mcuh a trade off- no free lunch.

No magic in the Coopers, but they are good guns made by good folks. Then again, so probably are the Noslers.

I guess my prejudice against the noslers is related to the two guns that they had up at the SW in Fairbanks that I examined many times. One was a 300wsm and the other was a 270Wsm. Both were interesting.

I do a funny thing. I take out the bolt and try to look at the concentricity of the lands of the rifling. The Pacnor barrels were good- just to my eye. It is in no way a scientific test but I do it anyways.

I also check the trigger. Noslers have Timneys. They are not lawyered up. They are a great trigger. Coopers have excellent triggers too.

The actions of the Noslers- These were the ones up in Fairbanks were rough. Not the movement of the action but the edges of the metal in both bolts looked worked over. More so than many of the out of kilter 700s that I have looked at. However, was the finish machinist sucked. It could have been that we being the last stop on the civilized planet would be the spot to unload two such candidates. The 270WSM sold quickly.

The big thing about the Noslers is that I have heard that the Howa action design(I have three vanguards and another on layaway.) was designed by an American. I have heard that he retains some fo the patent rights and that the Nosler action was like a Howa but was manufactured by Pacific Die and Tool and then Assembled at the Nosler facility.

The Nosler stock is better than nearly any other synthetic. Mel Forbes has proprietary technology and his stocks don't shift and provide supreb accuracy.

My view point that while the gun was good I would spend another 1000 and get a NULA.

Coopers are strangely deceptive. They look heavier than they are. Their weight is concentrated in their barrel and points to the front.

Noslers do to. They probably are a better pure mountain rifle.
The big question is that how good is the guy who fits the action to the barrel. Both are small shop operations and I think that they both do a good job.

However, I can only go with my personal experience of the differences between guns that I have seen. This is pretty limited because while I do like guns and have strange proclivities related to them(especially rifles) I continue to live at the end of the road up here. When I retire I will move further off.

Sincerely,
Thomas

Interesting points Thomas..Thanks for sharing that.

While I have examined a few Cooper 54 and 52s and owned a few Howa's and Vanguards, I've never handled a Nosler.

It's a shame that Nosler finishes the bolts on those guns with the Cerekoate or whatever that makes 'em feel grittier than a factory Howa.

Definitely not good on a gun costing several K...

I really liked the little m54 sports I handled at SHOT the first of the year. Just about perfect little sporting rifles.

I don't understand why you would model a $1500 gun on a Howa?!? I don't think Howa's are bad, how about showing some creativity.

The first guns were made by Wiseman and yes, the actions were cast. Wiseman barrels were used on them. Nosler later took the production of the receivers "in-house" which probably means machined locally. I think it would be easy to conclude that many parts are farmed out. They now use Pac Nor barrels.

They are too heavy in my book. When you pick one up, it feels about 3/4 of a pound heavier than it looks like it should.

It is of all things a Howa knockoff that is investment cast in the US. The bolt release is the one difference as is the scalloping of the receiver. The stock is not a B&C either

Says bell and carlson here!

http://www.nosler.com/rifles/trophy-grade.aspx

It might be now but not always the case...they had NULA building their stocks. They also had better bottom metal then PT&G as well .

There are two grades of Nosler syn-stock rifles. The less expensive uses B&C stocks. The other uses stocks made by NULA.

The action is indeed made in the U.S., but is VERY similar to a Howa because it was designed by the same guy, who apparently thought he got it right the first time. But it has features that Howas (and Wby. Vanguards) don't have, such as the steel bottom metal and Timney trigger, along with some different exterior machining.

The first Nosler custom rifles (with walnut stocks) were the only ones limited to 500 rifles. They have always used Pac-Nor barrels, to my knowledge.

I haven't shot a vast number of Nosler Custom rifles, maybe 6-8, but all the actions worked very smoothly. All the rifles that I had a chance to shoot on paper extensively were very accurate. A .270 WSM (the NULA-stocked model) averaged around 3/4" with 8 different kinds of factory ammo, on a 14-degree day.

The custom sporter grade uses a higher quality stock than Bell and Carlson. This topic was on the trophy grade which is where my info came from.

Thanks for clearing that up JB

I bought a ss Vanguard $550. Ordered a Mickey $450. While I was waiting on the stock I had a fast twist Douglas screwed on by Mr Coleman $500. Add the Timney $120 and I'm over the sale price on the Nosler, but......... I have a McMillan stock if that means anything(does to some don't to others) and a fast twist 22-250AI. The stock and rebarrel makes me think I came out ahead. If your cool with a B&C stock and they offer a chambering you want seems like a fair deal?

I like my gun just fine and don't plan to sell it. That said if doin it over I woulda just got a Remington at waly world for 3-400 and built off it? That don't matter if ya don't want a Remington though.?

Ok ok I'm sorry to keep goin on, but I guess were all on here to talk about guns? One could go to dick's and buy a stainless ADL for $500 or less. Sell off the factory stock and barrel for atleast $50. Send to Pac Nor and get a 280AI with the contour barrel you wish. Now your in it for $1,050 and need a stock. If you went light enough on the barrel you could use a TI take handle for $150-200 or order a McMillan for 4 somethin if you wanted a heavier contour than the TI will balance. Ok I'm done.....grin.

That's what I did.

Me too this go round...grin. Done a Remmy,Vanguard,& Alpine. "I" like my Remingtons better than the Vanguard and almost as well as the Alpine. For a light rifle and startin from scratch I'm very pleased with my Montana.

I'd rather a Howa than a Rem, but both worked over, the only big diff then to ME would be:

1) a 2 piece bolt handle assembly on Rem - (and I had one break!)
2) Much beefier extractor IMO in the Howa
3) Intregral Recoil lug via Howa IIRC.

So, if you can mentally wrap around a Rem vs a Howa, nothing wrong w/a blue printed 700 w/good bbl, trigger, and stock surrounding it. They usually print well, and bolt breakage is not common, but ALWAYS a possibility. Trust me, you'd NEVER want that happening in the field, esp. in the outback and w/o a backup rifle nearby IMO. It effectively renders your hunt OVER Pronto!

That said, I'd venture that a 270 or '06 Howa, w/Micky stock would do many a hunter a fine job, and agree w/post above on that note.

That said, I am intriqued by the Cooper's, yes the wood/blue models, in particular the 54 being a short action buff. Bolt lift and angle is noted, but not perhaps unlike an A-bolt or late model Sako. If they'd do a ss/syn version, I'd look to it perhaps first for all around use, but want a QUALITY handle. B&C's are functional, albeit HEAVY IMO.

Timney is a good trigger, and Pac-Nor, well I hold them in high regard inc. over the Wilson, yet the latter is said to be held to TIGHT spec request, now a joint ownership IIRC between Wilson and Cooper.

It's all about choices. Most shoot better than many hunters can hold, yet balance and overall quality, dependability/durability is of importance and perceptions may vary among these variables, depending on who you ask.

Pride of ownership is a consideration. I'd MUCH rather own a 1500 dollar rifle, than any 'TURN KEY' product costing 3-4x but that's just me. As to Howa being the action/design of the Nosler, it's still a NOSLER product and I believe that should count for something.

Nice to have choices, the market for semi-customs and/or higher grade rifles in this price range seems to be growing. Competition often brings more value/quality and price competition.

None of which are bad for the end users.

Forgot to add, Rem has the 'unsafe' trigger's of the two......

That was #4.

And yes, I had an AD once.........w/a 700.

Sometimes I read all the negative bs thrown around about products and just scratch my head. I am no expert per say, but I have sure seen a number of custom Howa's shown on this board and did not see the bashing going on. I had a Vanguard for a bit and it was a fine rifle.....action was more solid than any Remington 700 I have owned...I have some custom 700s ...they are fine....but the Nosler seems reasonable to me.....you are buying a low volume custom production gun at a pretty fair price.....it might even hold its value better than the average custom 700...just don't get the negative towards the Nosler....