I have 2 Winchester pre-64 transition actions in the hands of Gene Simillion. Both are 30-06 sized actions. Both rifle's will be identical.

I need to choose 2 calibers for lower 48 and African Plains game.

I was leaning toward a 30-06 and 270.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

Simple...30-06 and 7x57...


Just say "No" to the .270....

I think where you're leaning is right on.

For sure the .270 and if not the .30-06 then the 9.3x62.

Not a bad choice(s).

Two classic cartridges, and can do most anything.

I normally can go along with most stuff ingwe says, but in this case, he's simply wrong.

i'd do .280 AI and 9.3x62

.270 and .338-06 or .270 and 35 Whelen.

John

Those are good, safe choices. One of my biggest reasons for a custom though is to get something I couldn't get from the factory (the other upgrades go without saying).

280 and 35 Whelen

Duh! what other choice is there?

If I was doing one, I would build a 30-06. Since it is two, I would do a .270 and a 9.3x62. I certainly wouldn't do your 270/30-06 pairing because there is just too much overlap. With my plan, the guns could not be identical because the barrel contours would need to be different. But you would have the gamut from antelope/moose (in NA) and reedbuck/eland (in Africa) handled quite appropriately.

25-06 and 280.

Beat me to it 270 & 9.3mm. Other choice is a pair in the same caliber most likely both 30-06s.

daily double of ought sixes....25-06 and 30-06

The .270 made the 7x57 obsolete.

+1...although, you could swap the 35Wh for the 9.3x62.

RH

280 and 9.3X62.
Butch

...............Keep one as a 270 or 30-06. And for the other, how about the 375 Ruger? A can do conversion with one of your rifles?

With the right bullet the 375 Ruger is flatter shooting than the 30-06, as flat a shooter as the 270, and hits alot harder than both upon impact.

And should you choose to engage yourself with some dangerous big bears over here or dangerous African game, you`ll have a real honey in the 375 Ruger.

Ditto.....

ingwe's in the groove! .30-06 and 7x57. The next best combination would be the 9.3x62 and 7x57.

Personally have no desire for a 270 but in that action done right, it is probably what I would do and live with it.

The 7x57 and 9x62 would make nice with a 98 SR and LR respectively...but a M-70? A magazine is a terrible thing to waste...

Winchester rounds...270 & 338 WM

I would do a 270/280 for the first one depending on your personal prefs. For the second I would go larger and do a 338-06/ Whelen/or 9.3x62 depending how much arc you can put up with in your trajectory.

You will likely want a little larger contour on the larger bore so I would have the 270/280 with another 2" of barrel length so they balance about the same.

scouter,

I had this same problem in about 1980, and had my gunsmith build a 6.5-'06 for hunting and a .280 Rem (actually a 7mm Express) for metallic silhouette. Now having the actions at Gene S's would suggest some cartridges over others.

I don't know what your biases are, but I would build a .30-'06 and a .370 Sako.

The '06 will do everything in North America, and the .370 Sako was designed to be the largest case capacity you can get from the '06 case without serious case forming drama...jim

A 280 and a 35 Whelen would make a nice combo. You can load the 280 with light bullets for long range deer sized game or heavier for 300-400 yard elk. The Whelen would cleanly dispatch just about anything you pointed it at with ranges under 250 yards or so.

.25-06 and 9.3x62

Part of the reason I suggested the two cartridges I did--.270 Win and 9.3x62 is the ease of finding emergency ammo in the locale where they are likely to be used. Finding some of the others could get tricky.

7x57 and 9.3x62

Agree with these guys

daily double of ought sixes....25-06 and 30-06

Amen to that!!

Easier than 30-06??

6.5-06 and .338-06

That is why in my original post, I said if getting only one, get an '06.

OK, I'll buy that.

My two are 257 Roberts



and 9.3x62.



Alan

I'd get stuck on a .25-06 or .270 Win for the small gun and a .338-06 or 9.3x62.

With the 9.3, you could use it for some DG which would be kinda nice.

OK. Talked myself into a .270 Win and 9.3x62.

.275 Rigby and 9.3x62

280AI and 280AI...roughly in that order.............

Shopped for 280 AI in Harare lately?

I couldn't allow someone's Imagination,to taint my rifles or their fodder.

But I dig those yarns...............

Might not be a fair assumption...from what I hear shopping for anything in Harare can be daunting lately...

30-06 and 35 Whelen.

Personally, I would go .280 AI and 35 Whelen, since I have .30 caliber taken care of. However, the 06 and Whelen will take care of anything you want to hunt. There is a slight over lap so a 270 (because of ammo availability) and Whelen is a great choice if you wanted a little, flatter shooting combo plus a big bullet for the larger game. Too many choices.

Building a personal rifle is an emotional decision! I can't imagine building a rifle on anyone else's emotions... only my own.

A lot of folks talk about going to Africa... But few actually go...

If I were serious, I'd go with the 7x57 for the lighter of the two, and the 9.3x62 for the heavier... But that's just me...

You really only have to please yourself...

GH

You had it at the outset

.25-06 and 8mm Mauser. got 75 grains to 230 grains covered.

Few things mooter than "grains"...............

So true.

The mythical rifle for "everything up to grizzly bears and Africa", for guys that will never get farther than Kansas for whitetails....

I'm about to send off the deposit for my second trip, so I took the OP at his word. I will tromp around here with my 280 AI, but it is not coming across the pond.

Besides, since the OP has the money for a matched pair of Gene's guns, he has the scratch for Africa.

That would be a pretty good clue wouldn't it?

Thank you all for your recommendations.

I never thought about a 9.3x62 but since so many of you suggest it I am going to discuss that caliber with Gene. The 9.3x62 and a 270 may be the calibers of choice.

I have never used Gene before and never built off a pre-64, but have handled his rifles and felt they were extraordinary.

What are your opinions on Gene and/or opinions on the model 70 pre-64 action.

Thank you for your comments.

I think they will be magnificent rifles. The only downside to using a pre-64 is that parts availability for repair is at some point going to become a hassle/expense. But they are the gold standard for fine sporting rifles, with a fine M98 as their only credible peer.

Will these be wood or fiberglass stocked?

It wasn't directed at the OP, or anybody in particular, just a general observation.

Coming in late in the day with my response but I'll throw it in anyway. 25-06 and 35 Whelen.

Gene is a great guy and a very talented rifle builder.I enjoyed working with him on the 7Mashburn Super he built for me last year,which turned out great,and exactly what I wanted.This of course is a wildcat so maybe a bit trickier.I wanted the whole rifle built by one person in charge.

In explaining what I was looking for, he was way ahead of me; he "got it",understood what I wanted and "why".

Delivery time was spot on.If I were building another custom, Gene is the first person I'd call.

I'd have no problem building on a pre 64 myself,but no longer will tear up the great old rifles just for an action....in many cases,you aren't really improving much on a pre 64 anyway just by sticking a new barrel on it.

Seeing the job Gene did on a M70 Classic for me (a lot different when he gets done),if I had him build another rifle,I'd use the Classic action myself.All the booboo's are gone when you get it back

If I were you I'd ask Gene about doing a 270 Win paired with the wonderful 9.3x64 Brenneke- it's even better than the 9.3x62.

Rifles will be fiberglass. I hate to baby a rifle more than I love the looks and feel of a fine wood stock. This statement is not yet confirmed in my mind.

I don't understand all the love for the 9.3 caliber??? Am I missing something? 2200-2400 fps with a 250 grain bullet - what's so special about that? Much lower BC than a .338 caliber in the same weight, but at those speeds it's going to drop off the face of the planet a few hundred yards from the muzzle anyway. Sounds kinda like a souped up .30-30...

Back to the original question - If I was limiting myself to 2, and both were long actions with standard bolt faces, I don't think there is anything wrong with .270 and .30-06. Since the .270 can do almost anything the .30-06 can do, I'd give the .338-06 some thought depending on what type of hunting I was planning.

I've never been to Africa but I've heard (may be rumor only) the 9.3X62 is the minimum caliber for dangerous game in some areas, and it fits well in standard length actions.

For the U.S. 25.06, 338-06 or 270, 35Whelan make nice pairs so I have them all.
For Africa, .270,9.3X62 sound Perfect to me.

Thanks - that makes some sense now.

I like all the posts that mention availability of ammo. That's one of those things that I've always laughed at. I've never known anyone who went hunting and either forgot or lost their bullets and had to go buy replacements in some small town. It's amusing that so many people think it will happen to them that they actually take it into consideration when choosing a caliber. If you forsee yourself forgetting your bullets on a long planned hunting trip, then maybe guns just aren't for you...grin...

Laugh at ME then.

A few years back, I moved to a new home four states away, shortly before a planned out of state hunt.

In the inevitable confusion associated with moving, I couldn't locate my 7mm-08 handloads when I looked for them to check the zero on my rifle shortly before leaving on the hunt. No-go. Even less chance of getting all of my reloading stuff unpacked, organized, and running, to load more.

Off to the local gun shop in a one light town to grab something from the shelf. On their recommendation, I bought some Federal Fusions, checked my zero (and again after arriving at the hunting location), then proceeded to drive one through a nice mule deer.

Equal to being in Africa minus ammo? No. But I was sure glad to get my hands on some good ammo and have a successful hunt.

Do I choose my rifles based on that? Not really, or I'd probably have nothing but a 30-06 to be safe. But it can be a factor for some guys, running some obscure chambering.

Proper Prior Planning and Preparation Prevents Pizz Poor Performance.

8 P's

7x57 (Lilja Octagon 25") and 338-06 (23" #4)

120 TSXs from the 7 and 210 TTSXs from the 338. You can kill most anything that breathes....anywhere.

Bruz

You are missing something. It is entirely possible to get 2600fps with the 250gr Nosler Accubond out of a 9.3x62. The 9.3x62 is much closer to the 375 H&H than it is to the 338 Win Mag. For me, it's replaced both calibers.

243 catbird 270 necked down to 243. 338-06. covered for pdogs to big bears.

Hmmm. Nosler lists TOP speeds at 2500 and some change and that's with a 26 inch tube. Still sounds like a decent big bore but I had no idea it had such a following.

Cold Bore...(to quote Top Gun) So...You're the one....grin...

you will know what you have to work with, don't assume anything.

Scouter: How about a 338/06 and a 280 Remington!
I have a custom pre-64 Winchester Model 70 (Transition Model!) in caliber 280 Remington and it IS simply a wonderful Rifle.
It is strong, handsome, reliable, accurate, safe and holds 6 (six) rounds of ammo!
The 280 Remington as far as I am concerned is a very under-rated round!
Best of luck on your wonderful project!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

280AI and 9.3. Throw a fast 223AI in there and you will be set.

30-06 and 6.5x55 Swede

For your intended purposes:

1) 30-06 set up to shoot 180 gr bullets (CPX3 game)
2) 270 win set up to shoot 130gr bullets (also would consider 6.5x55, 260, 7mm-08, 7x57, or 280)

Killertraylor,

The Nosler 9.3x62 data is with typical low-pressure loads, due to the ancient factory standards still adhered to in some factory ammo, primarily from Europe.

I use loads in my own 9.3x62 (23.6" barrel) that get just under 2500 fps with 286's and 2650 with 250's. Both have been pressure-tested at around 60,000 psi, which is standard .30-06 SAAMI pressure. And a 250-grain spitzer at 2650 is a lot more than a short-range load.

I like German stuff and have killed a bunch of animals in North America and Africa with the 7x57 and 9.3x62--a combination I took to Africa four years ago. But that's doesn't mean anything other than I was lucky enough to hit them right.

My vote is for a 7X57 and 9.3X62. Fantastic combo IMO.

Those are pretty similar.... I guess finding ammo in a pinch, as they say, would be easy.

I'd go .280 or 30-06 for one, and 35 Whelen for the other. At least then there's some seperation.

Late post. You do not need a 9.3x62 or a 35 Whelen for plains game. I have shot nearly 200 with the 275 WinRem (270+280/2). The 30-06 is great for plains game. I would never suggest more than a 338-06 and even then I think the 30-06 is plenty if you can shoot and if you can't then go to something even easier shooting like a 7x57.

Get a 30-06 and a 270. There is some overlap but that is a good thing. On my first trip I was getting a Pre 64 M70 ready and the trigger broke. Could not get it fixed in the remaining 10 days so I got out my mauser G33/40 280 and went. On the twelve trips since I have used a 270 mostly. It has always done the job. I gave up on the 280 cause I couldn't find ammo easily although I handload. I think it is a good idea to have a pair of similar but not identical hunting rifles.

I would like to thank everyone for the help.

After considering a 9.3x62 and 270 combination I have decided on my initial combination of a 30-06 and 270.

I will shoot 165's to 180's in the 06 and 130's to 150's in the 270.

scouter, JO'C had a pair of rifles in 270 and 30-06 with which he did most of his hunting. They were slighly difference but there was a lot they had in common. Both could do a lot of different tasks but both were suitable for anything you want to do. You will never be sorry and if one is unavailable you will be able to get the job done regardless. Good hunting!

Gene is great. Another good choice.

Those are 2 good choices for two of the most popular and effective bolt action calibers in history. I found a link to a nice overview I read some time ago by Chuck Hawks titled "A perfect pair?".

www.chuckhawks.com/perfect_pair.htm

MCT3 good article. Each is different enough to distinguish itself but there is an overlap. Perfect pair, of rifles/cartridges that is. Now for other "perfect pairs", a different and more interesting discussion.

Great article, thanks for the link.

30-06 and 25-06...then do another one in 35 Whelen,....just cuz.

I know it's been a while - but any update on how these two beautiful Winchesters turned out?

Whoa! This is an oldie.

Hopefully the OP is ready for a re-barrel!

220 Swift and a '06.

They both turned out magnificent and made my other rifles obsolete. Gene Simillion is as good as it gets. The 30-06 will shoot 168 Barnes ttsx .25. If I told you how good the 270 shoots 130 Bergers you'd say I was lying. Both wear a Leica 3.5-14 ER and feed perfectly.

The 30-06 has been to Africa twice and the 270 is my deer rifle.

If I would have built those 2 rifles years ago I would have saved a fortune as I have no desire for another rifle.

Thanks for the update!
I love hearing about sweet shooting model 70's.
Any pics of those beauties or trophies you wish to share?

Interesting read, especially the results. Post some pictures if you get the chance.

Have you notice a loss of desire for more and more "builds"?

Did Gene use wood or synthetic stocks?

RinB, you hit the nail on the head. At the time I received my Simillion's I had the following custom rifle's:
1. NULA 7-08
2. Bansner 280
3. Mcwhorter 270 wby
4. Holland 6.5-284
5. Holland 300 Win

All are wonderful riflemaker's and would shoot.

The Simillion's; however, in my opinion are on another planet. After Gene modifies a pre-64 action the function is incomparable. They will feed anything, including empty cases flawlessly. They have bases and rings that are custom done by Gene that are bombproof. The trigger breaks like glass. And oh yeah, they shoot like a "house of fire".

I sold all my other customs.

Now instead of purchasing another custom, I just load a different bullet weight. The only other rifle I have is a Winchester custom shop 375 H&H. And you are correct, I have no desire for any other rifle.

Both Simillion's are Mcmillan Echols legend fiberglass stocked.

By this post, I mean no disrespect to any other builder.

I know Gene and really appreciate the quality of his work. He is very reliable. He makes and keeps commitments. Good for you. I have a similar rifle in 7RM. Since it arrived I have stopped getting more.

I have two Pre'64 actions at the 'smith also, one is a transition, the other is a '49.

The '49 will be a Whelen , the transition will be a 280 Rem.

The 30-06 and 270 are too close in my opinion.

You could go with the 338-06 and a 25-06 , those two would make a nice combo.

Bruzer,

Super classy call on the octagon barrel. Screams for at least some nice, if not better wood. Good choice on the calibers too. I like the way you think.

Best,

Bob