Any thoughts, looking at the Surgeon RSR or Stiller Predator, similar price......building a 284 win with Rock #3 and wyatt box...Thanks for any advice, Dick

That's like comparing a Chevrolet Corvette to a Kia Sportage.

I got a couple RSR actions, very well built. I Dumped the Predator. Defiance is another good choice.

Recent threads on action choices...
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5007982/Re_Custom_Action#Post5007982

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...ild_on_a_Model_700_or_start_#Post5105481

The new Stiller Predators are not the same as the old ones. I've owned a couple old versions, and now a new one. The new ones have a one-piece bolt, same as the surgeon, and the new ones have a pinned base, same as the surgeon. I'm sure that Stiller came out with these changes in response to the RSR.

I've never owned a surgeon, so I cannot compare the two, but a Stiller action is great. Given that you want to run a Wyatts, the Predator seems like a good choice as it's already set up for that.

seeing as how Nighthawk Custom rifles which are hailed as extremely accurate uses Stiller actions and other over the counter parts, including a Wyatt box, its good enough for my money.

You'd be very happy with the Stiller. -Al

I'd go either Surgeon, BAT or Defiance Machine - top 3 actions out there in my opinion!!!

you might want to look at Borden if you have not already


gene

Gene, yes, I just don't want the wait. His are very fine actions, just looks like these 2 will be available sooner. Thanks, Dick

I like my actions to have an integral lug and pic rail machined into the action. I especially don't want the action having a separate recoil lug, to me thats just dumb with a custom action. machine the freakin lug in I say or just buy a remington.

I need some advantages over a stock remington and those are the one I require. with that said BAT and surgeon are the only actions that have both features that I know of.

well not really slug

You are not comparing apples to apples I have a couple BAT's and the one's I own dont have an integral lug and they are top knotch BR action's, the Stiller's in question are the Predator that is a Remington clone their bottom tier product. try comparing them to their top of the line stuff like the Viper, Diamondback.

Ruger has that (lug) and they cost tons less.

I love rugers, but they don't have hardly any goodies available for them. and gunsmiths don't like working on them or bedding them. even I have to concede though they are not the accuracy platform that a remington type action is.

Ya, if you buy there "top of the line" you should be good to go. Be sure to check bolt-face/lugs are sq to the raceway.

Just giving you a hard time, cc.

I have barely tiptoed into the custom action market, buying a Stiller Tac 30 in a lightweight 22-250 with 1-8 twist. I'm glad that one doesn't have a built-in rail because I'm working on acquiring some Talley Ltwt rings for it to keep up the ltwt platform.

But I completely understand what you're saying and if I were building a target/varmint rifle, I might have to look into the two actions you speak of.

Stiller

bat also has actions without the rail built in to save wieght, they are also alot less expensive too which if you don't want that will save you some money.

I have a Surgeon 591 and a Borden Alpine and both are top notch. The Borden is a little bit tighter and smoother but I like the Surgeon due to it's heft. I wouldn't trade either for another action although I'm sure other custom actions are just as nice.

With the above said, I would mindn't trying a defiance or Pierce.

Dick,
We really have the same taste in guns. I just built a 7-08 last year on a Surgeon RSR action and #3 Rock barrel and Wyatt box.

I went with the Surgeon RSR as it seems a little smoother with just the right tolerances. Some of the names people are throwing out there are great actions for the bench rest game but to tight for hunting. The RSR is made with the "tactical" shooter in mind. Squared and tight tolerances but not so tight as to jam up if it gets a little dirty.

The newer Stiller Predator are now on par with the RSR but they were not when I bought mine. I think someone previously touched on this and I have not played with a new Stiller. The RSR comes with the option of a brushed chrome finish on the bolt, which I like. The bolt knob can also be changed as it screws on to the handle. It is a one piece bolt but a seperate knob.

Defiance makes the actions for GAP and previously Neisika. Borden is another one I wanted to go with but they wanted to much for me and the wait was long.

If you were closer I'd like you take the 7-08 for a test drive.

mliang, sounds like a nice rifle! any pics?

I see no advantage to one over the other except in small details. The Siller will have a nitrided bolt. As long as you can get them with a pinned recoil lug, this is a fine way to go and not giving up much to the 591 or BAT one piece.

They are both outstanding actions. If you are going with a #3 contour barrel, it makes no sense to use the heavy BAT or 591 action.

I recently tried to buy a Rimrock but the wait was too long. We went with a Pierce. If I had to do it over again, I would do the same thing.

I have a Defiance long action and it is bank-vault solid but the one piece bolt adds $500+ to the price of an action.

RSR is not a "tactical action", just another Remingtom clone(round reciever). Think my RSR weighed 1lb 15oz with recoil lug.

What took so long?Seems to be a trend on custom rifle forums.
There still not.

slg88,
Is this a personal thing?
Butch

888,

Please expand on "what took so long?" and how the new Predators are not on par with an RSR. Have you tried both a new Predatorand an RSR and done the direct comparison? I have one on order and you have me very curious.

Thanks,

John

Honda64, no personal issue with Stiller, mine shot fine after the bolt face was trued. Having owned both actions(Simultaneously),it was a no-brainer to me..

When a member ask's for reccomendation on a custom action(stiller vs RSR), why not suggest a Mfr w/perfect track record? Good luck finding any negativity on Surgeon. Here ya go....

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ub...in=198746&Number=2221867#Post2221867

So your Predator was one of the new ones?

From the link, the OP stated Stiller made it right without hesitation. I guess if I don't like my Predator when I get it, Stiller will either fix it to my satisfaction or refund my money. I've seen where they have stated that numerous times.

I ordered the Predator based on my 'smith's recommendation. His reputation is outstanding, so I have expectations that it will work out well.

John

Surgeon.

I'd buy a Pierce over a Stiller.....

I live in the Flathead... I've been to Defiance Machines shop, and I was a real machinist in a previous life.

I would buy one of Glen's actions, and I'm going too for my next rifle. He's a very talented machinist. You won't get a call from your gunsmith telling you he needs to "blueprint" your 900 dollar action (something I've heard frequently from a gunsmith friend about Stillers and Surgeons)

Looked at Pierce, but wanted stainless.

John

I will agree that Stiller seems to have to run around the net and defend his product more than any other 700 clone maker!

Stiller for me and I have Surgeon RIGHT in my front yard, not saying that Surgeon is bad just can't get use to the BIG bolt handle.

http://www.defiancemachine.com/

Check these guys out. I've got three rifles built on them and rate them as top notch.

They make smaller handles!

And Kampfeld custom.

Even with what Karl did to yours was still a bit to big for me Stoney. I probably will buy one JUST to have a Surgeon(308 heavy barrel), but for know I'll roll with the Stiller which has been a DARLING to me!!!!!!

Marcus, just un-screw & remove the nob handle....small enough now? Lol!!

You should try a Borden...you won't know how to act!

Perfect Stoney !!!!!

Ur probably right!!! LOL!!!!!!!!

I went with the Surg RSR on a group buy and could not be happier. As someone above mentioned, it was built from the ground up to have the right balance between being tight and being able to tolerate debris. I had Nate at Straight shot gunsmithing do the barrel job and he was extrememly impressed with the tolerances.

I called Surgeon to ask some questions, one of which was how long I would have to wait for an action (wanted a 591 WSM action). I was told that they had the action I wanted in stock. I had also talked to Jim Borden and was considering a Rimrock action but he switched from 17-7 or similar stainless to 416 SS. I will not own an action made with 416 SS. His CM action were months out.

When I called Surgeon back the next day to order the action, they hummed and hawed and finally told me that they didn't have the action and couldn't give me a delivery date. That ruined it for them. Pierce was another matter altogether- they have their shop and office in order- answered every question and had reasonable shipping date. Never heard a bad thing about a Pierce either. I wouldn't buy a Predator because he uses 416SS for the actions. It's just a personal thing and it must work well for Jerry so I can't say anything bad about his actions.

I looked at a BAT at Bruno's- it was a bank vault!! It was pricey!! It was a 308 bolt face and I wanted magnum so I didn't buy it. The BAT has the smallest loading port and consequently, the most rigid of all the actions mentioned- if that means anything to you.

Several have complained about the washer-type Remington 700 recoil lugs. I have never heard of one bending-


Just saying...

Didn't know Jim switched from 15-5 to 416 stainless, did he say why he switched?

Borden Alpine!

ML

Dennis,
The US Military thought enough of Stillers 416R receivers to buy a few million dollars worth.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...-2-million-to-build-navys-mk-13-actions/


Butch

whats wrong with 416 stainless??

I believe 416 has no nickel content, where as 15-5 has 15% chromium and 5% nickel which makes the 15-5 more corrosion resistant!

After it is Melonited it is corrosion resistant.
Butch

Is stiller using Melonite?

I'll not ever buy another Stiller.....I'd like to try a Borden someday. Surgeon's are sweet but I would not use one for a sub 8 lb build. Nesika, BAT, Stolle, are all superb but are all too tight for a hunting rifle, IMO. Lately I'm thinking it's pretty hard to beat a trued up Remington with the prices of custom actions going through the roof.

Specialty rigs not withstanding, I find my needs are easily met with the Rem Model 7, Rem 700, and Rem 700 Ti........A good smith certianly helps!



X-VERMINATOR

Anyone know what BAT uses for their bolt clearances? Borden uses .002, and I don't think it's too tight for a hunting rifle!

Not sure the measurement, but mine was such a tight tolerence, cerekote could not be sprayed on action/bolt. KG was applied (still has slight friction). No play at all! Ackleyfan, obviosly your thinking of buying the best action made so have Bat turn down the bolt to your specs.

I don't like the diamond flutes on my Bat, but it is necessary if it gets dirty.I'm hoping the bolt-firing pin mods help my Bat. Stiller is Meloniting the bolt bodies.
Butch

I sure do like those Bat VR's

Bat flutes are such a high smooth polish, the CM never get rust un-like my Predator did. Not familiar with Melonite & Stiller's new process, but I think it's 'sorta a high temp salt bath I've heard which helps prevent rust? Also heard it darkens SS/CM...correct Butch?

I shoulda took chemistry in school & I'd know all this chit.

Yes, Melonite is similar to the process performed on Glock slides. It is a hardening process that leaves the steel black when completed. It's not a coating. Here's a pic of my Stiller Predator 6mmbr repeater

Is it setup as a repeater,if so How does it feed, Are you using Bryants mag mod?
Nice rifle BTW

Actually it is a low[900deg] salt bath. I have a few barrels that have the treatment. Does 2 things, more corrosion resistance and much longer barrel life. It has not affected the way the barrels shoot, either good or bad. I'll bet on a bolt it is very slick.
Butch

Really nice rig Darren, great combo!!

Yes, it is a repeater with the Bryant mod. It feeds pretty well, especially since playing with the position of the spring under the follower. I have a freind who has a few 6brs on Remmy actions, and I love the positive ejection I get as well with the M16 extractor