thinking of putting an order in for a lightweight sporter....around 7.5-8 pounds scoped with a leupold vx3 3.5-10 CDS...

Thinking a 243 or 260 REM...

WHo would you go with and why

Its no contest, not even close - Robert Gradous all the way!!!

I've been there & done that with both of them (couple times) - Robert's work by miles blows GAP away. Robert is so paticular & obsessed with perfection its ridiculous!! He is the only one to touch your rifle - GAP is more assembly line. Robert will also help you with load development/barrel break-in, GAP won't unless you pay the $$$$.

Another thing, you can call & talk to Robert anytime - try talking to your smith at GAP after your order is place - if it happens, it'll be very brief and you'll probably get cut short.

Not here to bash GAP, just stating the facts as they occurred with me. In MY opinion, GAP is way over-rated compared to other smiths out there!!!

PM me if you want my phone # - I can go over all of this in detail!!!!!

It is really hard to over-rate rifles that come with 1/2 MOA accuracy guaranteees (as the non-typical does), IMO.

That said, I think either would be a fine choice.......

It is tough to say GAP is overrated if you want an accurate rifle. They just built a 7mm-08 on my 700 resembling their non-typical and it is very much a shooter. True, if you expect to pick up the phone and speak with some one every time, there might be more accessible smiths but I did not have any issues. Most of my communication was done via email but they built a very accurate rifle at what I thought was a fair market price for a custom build. I would use them again, no questions asked.

++1 on Robert.He builds an "incredable rifle"

Do a search for Robert Gradous on 24hr,6mmbr, Sniper Hide, etc.. You will read nothing but the best of comments on both him and his work.

PM me also if you want my phone # - I will also go over all of this in detail!!!!!

Or.....grin

You could go with something like what I'm gonna move (sell),a

M70/Stls
Stls/Fwt contour/PN 308
Hunter Edge
Talley
PT&G btm metal

Shoots like a fiend and is brand new and ready to ship...grin

Metal work via Redneck

PM me if you have any interest.

Dober

I cannot comment on GAP, though from what I know you will receive a first class product.

I can say Robert Gradous is outstanding in every aspect of the build. The guy really cares and is a top notch individual.
I recently received my Gradous build with ammunition and have nothing but praise for Mr. Gradous. I received another custom build from a noted builder nearly same day as receiving the Gradous rifle and there is no comparison in any way between the two in regards to quality or customer service.
You can't go wrong choosing Mr. Gradous to build your rifle.

I'd go w/Dober's rifle first, ready to rock and roll, and all quality parts.

If you build, I'd go w/Robert. Nothing against Gap, but Robert is a one man operation w/a keen eye to detail, no shortcuts anywhere and backs his work.

Can't say anything about Gap but I will tell you my history with Robert. I had a rifle built that wasn't perfect (no names will be mentioned) and he took that rifle and did the work that needed to be done. That said, he is current building me a 243 as we speak. He will build it right, just do a search and you will see target pictures posted for proof. He is accessible as previously mentioned. By the way, 243 was not my original caliber choice but not enough difference between what I originally wanted and the 243. This honest opinion came from Robert, but as he told me "I will build you whatever you want."

I'm with 300MAG. No doubt about it....Gradous all the way.

Primo, Glad to hear Gradous is building you a .243, he has built me two .243's & there both tack-drivers.

1st 3 shots ever fired from new barrel/build .243win at Gradous shop 2 months ago. 40,41,42grains of IMR4350....does not matter, it shoots .250 groups.

Robert is building my next two once the parts get here. Hopefully this winter....

Having experience with both, I agree with 300MAG. But never underestimate resale value, and GAP's resale quick with little discount.

Last visit to Gradous shop there were couple new GAP rifles being repaired. According to the guys at www.Diaperhide.com, 'Moon' is the best 'smith there. ....Well,it was one of his being repaired.

From what I know, that doesn't surprise me one bit. I've been through a few GAPs and one impressed me enough to keep. It is also the best shooting rifle I've ever had. Its an older GAP and interestingly the stamp is an arrow (George).

[quote=ctsmith]

Having experience with both, I agree with 300MAG. But never underestimate resale value, and GAP's resale quick with little discount.

Yes, Resale is to be considered, but I have seen far more GAP rifles for sale vs. Gradous....

I don't build or buy rifles to be re-sold, as my intention is to build a really good one and enjoy it.

How many Gradous rifles have been built vs GAP?

Robert Gradous is an outstanding rifle builder. His work is top notch and he knows exactly what it takes to build a great performing rifle.

He also happens to be one of the nicest people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting. I am proud to call him a friend.

George and the GAP folks are also good people and build a heck of a nice rig. GAP has a fine reputation for a reason. Buying a "semi-custom" like the ready to go Non-Typical isn't a bad way to go.

I think rifle performance wise either company will satisfy most shooters. Robert will give you more of the "truly custom" feel.

Mark

GAP may be better known than Robert but when you see one of his rifles come up for sale (which is rare) they go real quick.

Higher priced rifles move much more quickly at SH than 24HC. GAPs are beloved over there. You can always move a higher priced GAP at SH. I don't like my odds of anything high priced at 24HC.

The site owner of Sniperhide.com recently spent a week with Gradous. Here is his review..

http://dedicated.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2705800

Re: # of rifles built, who builds more?

Remington or Gap?

MY point is, I don't want a semi-production run rifle where high volume production is cranked out vs. 1 man working on 1 gun, till completion of build, and testing.

It's just how I see it. Gap rifles I am sure are good rifles, and whoever buys them from Gap or 2nd hand, that's fine with me, it's not my money.

The OP asked opinions, we all have them.

For a hunting rifle, I'd buy a Sako or Cooper before spending 2x or 3x the $$$ for a Gap. Just me.

If building, I like the idea of a 1 man operation.

Fine wine takes time.......I know Robert invests ALOT of HIS time into his work.

How exactly is a GAP a "semi-production" rifle and a Gradous not? They both require a custom action, often use the same barrels, cut their own chambers, thread and crown, etc. So, exactly what makes GAP's not custom and Gradous a "true" custom?

Good question and IMO they are both custom rifle builders, although chances are fit,finish,detail are more likely to be better w/Gradous. In the past 15yrs I doubt you'd find a dis-satisfied Gradous customer....already read a few problems with GAP on this thread.

If I remember correctly 300MAG recieved a GAP that had steel showing thru the cerekote & would not chamber. Gradous would never ship a rifle that way, nor if it did not shoot 1/2' or less, it would not ship. I consider him a good friend and know his policy's when it comes to building a custom.

I'm sure GAP will build you a nice accurate rifle Huntr, I just prefer to take my chances with someone that has a perfect track record. Someday I wouldnt mind having a Kampfeld or Fosnaugh rifle also....just gotta win the lotto.

You just missed out on NIB .243 &.308 Cooper on SH Cliff. They were nice.

Huntr, Stoney reflects my thoughts. GAP is custom no doubt, I just feel Robert does MORE of a custom touch...he has no deadlines - he takes the time to do ALL the work from A-Z w/the build, and all by himself.

It's just one person's perception.

Stoney, if things don't turn around.....I will have to sell the house, live in a tent, buy a Vanguard, and trade cheese from the cheese line in for some nickels to save for the McSwirly it will want Not to mention run a Trashco, and load from a Lee Loader.

I know a fellow who has a 6.5x47 Cooper for sale, but like you, I need to win the lottery.

One last thing on Robert is how his customer relationship and satisfaction is so important to him. He treats you like family. During my last build he walked me through in detail on what parts to purchase and the details on how it was going to built.All of my questions were answered in detail and with respect.

In the past I had spent $1,000s and $1,000s of dollars on rifles from a very well known smith. When I finally had a chance to meet him in person and his shop, what a disappointment. During my brief meeting it seemed like I was a bother and a waist of his time even though I had made an appointment for a visit. Well he lost the my order on another one of his rifles because of this.

True there are a lot of tire kickers / dreamers out there that waste a lot of a smiths time but at the same time customer service and satisfaction is a big part of a sale with me. With Robert I not only have a gunsmith that will receive all of my future orders but I have also made a good friend.

GAP builds a great rifle and a lot of them. I remember talking to George about a feeding issue that was cartridge related but he was not willing to do any messages to get it to feed such as chamfering the chamber edge, feed rail work, etc. I'm talking paying work and to me working out such issues are the true measure of a smith vs. machinist.
While I was on the phone one of his smiths came in the office on a profane laden diatribe about "internet [bleep]". It went on for minutes and I thought it very unprofessional of George not to shut him up knowing I was on the phone.
Bottom line. They build a great rifle, have all the work they can handle, and can be aloof ,IMO.

I guess GAP don't like the Campfire folks. "internet [bleep]"